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 dementedwombat wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:

My friends keep pointing out the crappy melee stats on my riptide, and i keep pointing out theyve never gotten near it to take advantage of it.

Heh, I've been playing Tau too long. There have been times I've seriously considered charging my riptide into close combat because it has strength 6 and 3 attacks (which looks like an amazing close combat profile compared to every other profile I've seen). It fear works it can even hit on a 3+...

My main army is orks, I put the riptide in melee strengths about the same level of a nob without a powerklaw. Reason being, the nobs hit smaller things on a 3+ and costs far less for not-that-much worse base states (excluding the AP2 and Wounds).
Yes the riptide CAN melee because it still hits on 4s and splats anything that doesnt splat him first. The problem is everything has an advantage hitting him, numbers scare him, and his gun is a bazillion times more reliable than his fist.
Literally the only time my riptide has been in melee was to charge an Ark carrying some nasty guns and passengers i didnt want to get to my gunline. I had nothing to pen it save for the Melta and my fist, everythin else was just glance chances and i had fliers to worry about so my broadsides were on that problem already. So i charged after botching the melta shot (snake eyes...dafuq), punched its butt, pinned its occupants with the explosion roll, ran away. Couldnt consolidate or thrust move, but he was pinned so he couldnt charge me to lock my riptide down. I did that intending to lose the riptide, i just got lucky lol

Yes it rocks.

Suncannon/scattershield with a scatter laser is the best option.

He is worth his 300pts and you will see lots of them presently but we shall see how 6th edition shapes up we got how many codexs still to go?

Here is my list I will be running tomorrow

Avatar
7 warlocks on bikes

3x 3 jetbikers

2 wraithlords - flamers, blade, 2xbright lance
Wraith Knight - Suncannon/scatter shield, Scatter laser

TAU ALLIES

Commander - fusion, iradium, puretide, shield generator, Interceptor

Riptide - Ion, SMS, Interceptor

6 Fire warriors

2x broadsides HYM, SMS, interceptor

We already rolled for psychic powers - I got 2 destructor/renewals (see the theme?) 1 armor booster, 2 embolden/despair, 2 quicken (turned a quicken into conceal)


PS - CANT WAIT FOR IYANDEN!

Wratihknight warlords!!!!
Spirit Seer councils!!!

my eldar/tau ZILLA list will only get better I imagine.

 schadenfreude wrote:
It's a mediocre unit that is going change the meta. There are lots of ways to deal with one.

Eldar=Any d weapon
DE=Poison
GK=Activate s8/s10 force weapon on a hammer/doom fist.
Nids=poison
Orks=tarpit it in boys
CSM=tarpit it in plague zombies

That being said other armies are in dire trouble.

Tau and IG has the dakka to drop one, and it's not worth it. By the time they are done the softer targets that should have been target priority have done their damage.

DA salvo lists=full panic. It's immune to all that s4 and is gunning straight for the salvo banner.

I wouldn't play with a knight myself, but I would never assume that they would be absent from a tournament.

Exactly my thoughts here. Its a fluffy choice but generally not worth it in a tournament setting.

Exactly my thoughts here. Its a fluffy choice but generally not worth it in a tournament setting.

Interesting. By that logic, are MCs in general not worth it in a tournament setting? Because all I see are MC weaknesses.

Weird though. I could list a similar amount of weaknesses for every single unit in the game. Does that mean no units are worth it in a tournament setting? Must be a boring tournament....

ShadarLogoth wrote:

Exactly my thoughts here. Its a fluffy choice but generally not worth it in a tournament setting.

Interesting. By that logic, are MCs in general not worth it in a tournament setting? Because all I see are MC weaknesses.

Weird though. I could list a similar amount of weaknesses for every single unit in the game. Does that mean no units are worth it in a tournament setting? Must be a boring tournament....

Sorry, but this is not what was intended. The point is that a single WK can easily be downed if the enemy targets it and has the right means as pointed out by Schadenfreude.

 Scipio Africanus wrote:
Think about the unheard of Sniper Drone team in Tau, when you take the wraithknight.

at 24" there's a potential 27 shots at BS5, all of which wound your knight on 4+.

That's 22.5 hits

11.25 wounds, with about 2 rends.

I don't know about the wraithknights saves, but from what I've heard they're only save 3+ with no invulnerable save.

that means you'll take 2 wounds + 3 failed saves. If the wraithknight doesn't have more than six wounds, he's toast to me.

However if they take 2 turns of eating 3 twin linked s6 ap2 small blasts to the face these figures won't be quite as accurate...
Honestly, this model is to big not to take imo, a bit of conversions and BAM! Awesomeness!

If I end up playing against a Wraithknight I'll just be spreading out and ignoring it as best I can, allowing the Eldar player to enjoy his pitiful 3 blasts he's got in return for the massive points dump, then once I've claimed enough VP's I'll instagib it with a Force weapon. I will then proceed to ask the timeless question - YOU MAD, BRO?

I'll also take great pleasure in pointing at my ADL with Quad Gun manned by a Prescience Coteaz and 3 Plasma Cannon Servitors and telling him that the whole thing cost less points than his now dead Wraithknight. I will then re-ask - YOU MAD, BRO?

I may then consider poking him with a stick and skipping away in a camp manner, giggling to myself.

Enceladus wrote:
If I end up playing against a Wraithknight I'll just be spreading out and ignoring it as best I can, allowing the Eldar player to enjoy his pitiful 3 blasts he's got in return for the massive points dump, then once I've claimed enough VP's I'll instagib it with a Force weapon. I will then proceed to ask the timeless question - YOU MAD, BRO?

I'll also take great pleasure in pointing at my ADL with Quad Gun manned by a Prescience Coteaz and 3 Plasma Cannon Servitors and telling him that the whole thing cost less points than his now dead Wraithknight. I will then re-ask - YOU MAD, BRO?

I may then consider poking him with a stick and skipping away in a camp manner, giggling to myself.

60 kroot with sniper rounds - 210 points - will knock six wounds off it. that's about 40-ish points less than what you're talking about and it can do it first turn.

if you're going first, they'll always do it first turn.

 wuestenfux wrote:

ShadarLogoth wrote:

Exactly my thoughts here. Its a fluffy choice but generally not worth it in a tournament setting.

Interesting. By that logic, are MCs in general not worth it in a tournament setting? Because all I see are MC weaknesses.

Weird though. I could list a similar amount of weaknesses for every single unit in the game. Does that mean no units are worth it in a tournament setting? Must be a boring tournament....

Sorry, but this is not what was intended. The point is that a single WK can easily be downed if the enemy targets it and has the right means as pointed out by Schadenfreude.

Except all but one of those require you to be a complete scrub and let the Wraithknight get assaulted by a horde unit.... Its really not that easy to take out.

Just thinking. On a 6 JotWW initiative test he'd be toast too or am i missing something?

 Mywik wrote:
Just thinking. On a 6 JotWW initiative test he'd be toast too or am i missing something?

Everything's dead on that 6 though, not just the WK.

 Shandara wrote:

 Mywik wrote:
Just thinking. On a 6 JotWW initiative test he'd be toast too or am i missing something?

Everything's dead on that 6 though, not just the WK.

No, vehicles cant take damage from it

I know everything is dead on a 6. But since i didnt read the WK codex entry i asked.

 Scipio Africanus wrote:

Enceladus wrote:
If I end up playing against a Wraithknight I'll just be spreading out and ignoring it as best I can, allowing the Eldar player to enjoy his pitiful 3 blasts he's got in return for the massive points dump, then once I've claimed enough VP's I'll instagib it with a Force weapon. I will then proceed to ask the timeless question - YOU MAD, BRO?

I'll also take great pleasure in pointing at my ADL with Quad Gun manned by a Prescience Coteaz and 3 Plasma Cannon Servitors and telling him that the whole thing cost less points than his now dead Wraithknight. I will then re-ask - YOU MAD, BRO?

I may then consider poking him with a stick and skipping away in a camp manner, giggling to myself.

60 kroot with sniper rounds - 210 points - will knock six wounds off it. that's about 40-ish points less than what you're talking about and it can do it first turn.

if you're going first, they'll always do it first turn.

You're missing my point, I wasn't trying to point out which units could effectively kill the thing (of which there are lots), besides, I don't play Tau...
I'm merely stating that my GK army can have 3 twin linked plasma cannon shots (A rough equivalent to what the Wraithknight gives you), plus a Quad Gun and 4+ cover, not to mention the 'I've Been Expecting You' rule and indeed re-rolls to seize initiative, all for less points than that big lumbering points dump.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mywik wrote:

 Shandara wrote:

 Mywik wrote:
Just thinking. On a 6 JotWW initiative test he'd be toast too or am i missing something?

Everything's dead on that 6 though, not just the WK.

No, vehicles cant take damage from it

I know everything is dead on a 6. But since i didnt read the WK codex entry i asked.

Didn't they FAQ Necrons with Reanimation Protocols to have a chance to get back up after JotWW? So not quite outright dead for everybody ;-) But we're digressing - Back on topic!

i'd say if you were using the WK as a fire magnet, its a waste of points, as you could use a WL to a similar effect (as it will probably still be the biggest thing in your army) for less points, and with more chance of a cover save.

I'm using a Wraithknight in an army with an Avatar and three Talos', so I predict it will do very well for me as a fire magnet. I'm also looking forward to seeing how well the scattershield's Blind rule will work in close combat when my army will likely be higher Initiative than my opponent's. That's another rule that I think a lot of people are forgetting about. If you wound that Wraithknight with a powerfist in your turn, and it passes it's invulnerable save, your units might be blinded until the end of your next turn (2 combat rounds).

 Jacknife wrote:
i'd say if you were using the WK as a fire magnet, its a waste of points, as you could use a WL to a similar effect (as it will probably still be the biggest thing in your army) for less points, and with more chance of a cover save.

The flip side is Fortune does more for the WK then WL (he has more wounds to work through), and Renewer has more of a chance of working (he has a better chance of still being alive after taking dedicated firepower). Also, lets say you have 2 WL or 1 WK. The WLs lose half of their combat effectiveness after losing 3 wounds. The WK does not.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Oaka wrote:
I'm using a Wraithknight in an army with an Avatar and three Talos', so I predict it will do very well for me as a fire magnet. I'm also looking forward to seeing how well the scattershield's Blind rule will work in close combat when my army will likely be higher Initiative than my opponent's. That's another rule that I think a lot of people are forgetting about. If you wound that Wraithknight with a powerfist in your turn, and it passes it's invulnerable save, your units might be blinded until the end of your next turn (2 combat rounds).

That's a fun idea. Elfzilla armies for the win.

The problem is that 40K lends itself so easily for power gaming.

 schadenfreude wrote:
It's a mediocre unit that is going change the meta. There are lots of ways to deal with one.
Eldar=Any d weapon
DE=Poison
GK=Activate s8/s10 force weapon on a hammer/doom fist.
Nids=poison
Orks=tarpit it in boys
CSM=tarpit it in plague zombies

How common are D weapons? Also D cannons are 24" range
Ok, DE do counter MCs well.
Requires melee
requires melee
requires melee
requires melee

How many people bring 210 points of kroot? Yes, you can specifically counter it if you know its being run, but how many people bring kroot at all these days? Also, nice 24" range, im just going to sit at 48" and make you walk over to me. Also, check your math. 60 shots, 30 hits only FIVE 6s on average. 6 Wounds here. You would need marker lights for some of the squads to get the required number of hits.

Do you people not play the game? Jump infantry only see melee to walking infantry when the jump infantry player wants them to see melee. Why would i ever send my wraithknight into melee with your plague zombies? Or your full GK squad with hammer? Or even get close to your termigaunts? These situations wont happen unless i want them to happen.

How common are D weapons? Also D cannons are 24" range
Ok, DE do counter MCs well.
Requires melee
requires melee
requires melee
requires melee

How many people bring 210 points of kroot? Yes, you can specifically counter it if you know its being run, but how many people bring kroot at all these days? Also, nice 24" range, im just going to sit at 48" and make you walk over to me. Also, check your math. 60 shots, 30 hits only FIVE 6s on average. 6 Wounds here. You would need marker lights for some of the squads to get the required number of hits.

Do you people not play the game? Jump infantry only see melee to walking infantry when the jump infantry player wants them to see melee. Why would i ever send my wraithknight into melee with your plague zombies? Or your full GK squad with hammer? Or even get close to your termigaunts? These situations wont happen unless i want them to happen.

If tou have checked the Tau Codex you would know that kroot are as good as, or even superior to FW as each one brings a sniper rifle so 60 shots, 30 hits, 15 wounds, 5 of which are rending and about 3 additional wounds from failed armour saves. And since when does DE fight wraithknights in CC when almost every shooting weapon in their army is poisoned 4+. It isn't that hard to catch a wraithknight and force him into CC, just try to jump anywhere with 150 or so Ork boyz or gaunts covering the table and you will soon find your back to the table edge. Oh and with tervigons your gaunts can effectively get a 12" move and a charge.

Gaunts need to be within 6" of the tervigon to get poison, so they dont actually hurt it until then. Also, keeping 18-24 inches away isnt hard when all nids do is walk towards you. Plus some terrain inbetween slows them down a lot.

I had thought it had changed kroot to 1 shot rending, my mistake. However, fire warriors are still the supperior troop choice in every game i have seen or played in since 6th, including multiple tourneys. That whole 6+ save business along the general ineffectiveness of snipers. Fire warriors clear hordes, allowing missile sides to take on light vehicles. Kroot snipers are only more effective than fire warriors at killing TEQ or MEQ at >15" and not much more effective even then (1.6 dead meq with snipers, 1.3 dead with FW for same point value firing) . Just noticed the math on points was off also, its 420 (60x7) points of kroot to down 1 wraithknight if they are all in range.

150 ork boys walking would just be a meat grinder. I would castle up on one side of the table and watch as dire avengers and shuriken cannons poke holes in his units. If a nob dies in any squad via precision shots, i let the WK charge them VS horde orks the WK is actually better tying up whole squads than shooting, especially when they cant hurt him. If they try to run, i will run them down and move on to the next unit. Horde orks hasnt been viable since 5th and i havent seen it run in a competitive setting in a while. Eldrad would have fun with that list too, as i can set up some units normally and then redeploy when he chooses where he wants to go. Have fun walking most of the table.

Since when did i say DE needed to be in melee? the only poison DE melee is wracks besides venom blade. I admitted DE counter MCs well, but current edition eldar counter DE VERY well (AV10? nearly every squad in my army has a S6 weapon), so im not concerned.

Dantioch wrote:

If tou have checked the Tau Codex you would know that kroot are as good as, or even superior to FW as each one brings a sniper rifle so 60 shots, 30 hits, 15 wounds, 5 of which are rending and about 3 additional wounds from failed armour saves.

True on the math, however you'll never (shouldn't ever) get 60 non-snap fire shots on a WK. WK goes 7" behind Eldar front-line models. Kroot are then 24+" away start of game. You'll be snap firing, assuming you can even get 60 models in 24". They take up a large amount of space. If you don't go first, you won't have 60 Kroot anymore.

Angelic wrote:

Dantioch wrote:

If tou have checked the Tau Codex you would know that kroot are as good as, or even superior to FW as each one brings a sniper rifle so 60 shots, 30 hits, 15 wounds, 5 of which are rending and about 3 additional wounds from failed armour saves.

True on the math, however you'll never (shouldn't ever) get 60 non-snap fire shots on a WK. WK goes 7" behind Eldar front-line models. Kroot are then 24+" away start of game. You'll be snap firing, assuming you can even get 60 models in 24". They take up a large amount of space. If you don't go first, you won't have 60 Kroot anymore.

Just for arguments sake I'll point out that Kroot have Infiltrate so If I go first I'll have a decent chance of infiltrating tho Kroot within 24" of the wraithknight and it's gone before it gets to fire once. However 420 points to bring down a 300 point model is still not the way to go and personally I don't think I would run that many Kroot unless I knew I was up against a tripple WK army.

 zephoid wrote:

Since when did i say DE needed to be in melee? the only poison DE melee is wracks besides venom blade. I admitted DE counter MCs well, but current edition eldar counter DE VERY well (AV10? nearly every squad in my army has a S6 weapon), so im not concerned.

Fleshgauntless are getting more and more popular. Posion and ID can be potent.

Dantioch wrote:

Angelic wrote:

Dantioch wrote:

If tou have checked the Tau Codex you would know that kroot are as good as, or even superior to FW as each one brings a sniper rifle so 60 shots, 30 hits, 15 wounds, 5 of which are rending and about 3 additional wounds from failed armour saves.

True on the math, however you'll never (shouldn't ever) get 60 non-snap fire shots on a WK. WK goes 7" behind Eldar front-line models. Kroot are then 24+" away start of game. You'll be snap firing, assuming you can even get 60 models in 24". They take up a large amount of space. If you don't go first, you won't have 60 Kroot anymore.

Just for arguments sake I'll point out that Kroot have Infiltrate so If I go first I'll have a decent chance of infiltrating tho Kroot within 24" of the wraithknight and it's gone before it gets to fire once. However 420 points to bring down a 300 point model is still not the way to go and personally I don't think I would run that many Kroot unless I knew I was up against a tripple WK army.

You apparently missed the part of my post where I made it impossible to infiltrate within 24" of the WK.

You apparently missed the part of my post where I made it impossible to infiltrate within 24" of the WK.

It was late and I didn't read the post to closely enough and for that I apologise.

 Exergy wrote:


Fleshgauntless are getting more and more popular. Posion and ID can be potent.

The fastest you could move is 6+6+12. Thats assuming you get max movement, no terrain, and your placement is perfect. Now, if you are running a DE melee force, im going to be staying as far away as possible from you. You will NEVER see melee, i dont know what you people dont get about this. 12" move+ 48" guns. I will never let you get close and will be deployed at the back edge. You are far more likely to shoot the WK down with venoms, but in that case you are essentially putting your whole army in range for him and maybe a cousin or two to wipe your venoms off the board.

Has the OP abandoned this thread? I'd like to hear how his wraithknight did 24 hours after the codex dropped. My suspicions say pretty well, as not knowing what it was probably freaked some players.

How much are kroot with sniper rifles. someone said 3.5 points a model and I'm wondering if their math is off.

Back onto the topic of what to expect in a tournament meta: Primarily practicle flexible lists with widely accepted good units. a few lists that are against the meta. A small # of fluffy lists. And then there are a small # of shock lists intended to produce a shocked look on people's faces , and where the chock value means more than victory. Example being a 10 dreadnaught ba list, not even in pods. The owner's logic "I just want to see the look on peoples faces as the dreads come walking across the table at them"

Add the triple knight + mechanized wraithguard to the potential shock lists you might see. Is it top tier competitive? nope, but that doesn't matter. Some players cannot resist the sirens call of fielding 3 giant motherfraking robots and the shocked look on the face of people unprepared to deal with it. WLD means little to those players, so expect to see it at a GT.

 zephoid wrote:

 Exergy wrote:


Fleshgauntless are getting more and more popular. Posion and ID can be potent.

The fastest you could move is 6+6+12. Thats assuming you get max movement, no terrain, and your placement is perfect. Now, if you are running a DE melee force, im going to be staying as far away as possible from you. You will NEVER see melee, i dont know what you people dont get about this. 12" move+ 48" guns. I will never let you get close and will be deployed at the back edge. You are far more likely to shoot the WK down with venoms, but in that case you are essentially putting your whole army in range for him and maybe a cousin or two to wipe your venoms off the board.

so you flat out right next to the wraithknight. If he runs, he gets 12" + a possible run away. Still in range of a lot of DE charges.

what guns does it have that are 48" range. (I know eldar missile launchers, but scatter lasers, starcannons, shurkien cannons, brightlances, and wraithcannons are all shorter range) I thought it's guns were 36" range max. 30" against DE with night shields.

Wraithcannons (S10 AP2, Distort) are 36", Suncannon (S6 AP2 Heavy 3 Blast) is 48"