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All these pictures of Janine Lindemulder are making me want to go upstairs and put on some Blink-182 and watch some of her "art films."

I'm off to "Pass the time in my room alone."

Aye, Bones got those numbers because each goal was giving you the mini at a certain level. From what I remember a lot of the funds came from folks upgrading to the sweet spot as the deal got better and better.

I'm not sure how it works with unlocks to gain pay for mini's, good freebies can help push it on I hope.

This is not based on value mind, I'm already in for $1050, and that will probably rise. I just want this sucker to be huge.

@minx
I don't know, I hope not. I hope they clean the main page completely from the stretch goals. I don't see a point except for the freebies and upgrades, unless they're making a special picture for them too.

Hulksmash wrote:We obviously see things differently but you can't honestly feel like this company is communicating well with it's public can you?

Well. I have plenty of reservations myself, but I keep seeing this crop up and I'm not sure what you guys are looking for. It's been right around 48 hours, right? Give or take? And they've had 4 official updates? I think an update every 12 hours is sufficient. Is the complaint with the content of the updates, somehow? Honest question - what is it, exactly and specifically that you want to see addressed that hasn't been? Presumably if enough people have the same questions the heralds or whatever can push for it to be addressed in an update.

 pretre wrote:
Wow. That is crazy. It seems like they would want the unlocks to be smaller so that more people would add the $10 model... I just don't get it.

That's a great point. There is a definite curve where by adding them too far apart, they lose money from not allowing people to buy locked items, and on the other end if they are too close, they run out of stuff to unlock and maybe lose steam (hence also losing money). I don't know where the sweet spot is but I think they're a little too far to the former, rather than the middle. But who knows, we'll see how it develops. The said they might tighten up the distance between stretch goals, I think they're probably going to have to.

And seriously, what's up with plastic injection? There - that's the question I haven't seen answered definitively yet. I'm pretty sure at this point if they don't go injection molded they're essentially burning profits.

 Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:
I'm already in for $1050, and that will probably rise

@Ouze
FAQ:
- We split the casting between two foundries: One in metal and one in resin, so that neither gets overwhelmed with volume should this KS exceed expectations. And if this Kickstarter was to go extremely well, we also have back-up plans for injected plastics.

That's the only thing for sure at the moment, regarding this topic. I am sure we get this answered more clear in the progress. Until now it seems they don't think about it but that could change.

 Alpharius wrote:
At the risk of sounding like a whiny cry baby Joe Blow on the Interwebz, $20K to unlock a single model that is then a $10 add-on...

Okay, what would you suggest?
a.) Unlock all miniatures on day one and then unlock nothing for the other 32 days?
b.) Unlock an army of 150 individual sculpted models per day (while staying at the keyboard to answer any questions within 10 seconds, night and day, of course)? BTW that would be 4,800 miniatures and 32 armies in total.

 Hulksmash wrote:
We obviously see things differently but you can't honestly feel like this company is communicating well with it's public can you?

Yes, I honestly feel that way and see things differently.

BTW here a summary of all known stretchgoals in pics, so that a mod can add them to the first post:
12,000$ funded after 30 seconds.





260,000$ stretch goal:

 WolfStark wrote:
@minx
I don't know, I hope not. I hope they clean the main page completely from the stretch goals. I don't see a point except for the freebies and upgrades, unless they're making a special picture for them too.

That's what i hope as well. Looks a bit strange for the uninitiated otherwise.

I'm happy to see that someone does think that the updates are enough. Also I've posted the plastics question again as it seems a burning issue.

And yes any other burning issues the heralds can post the questions and get an answer up as soon as we get one.

For those wanting comparison pictures of the Kurganova Sisters with Dreamforge Games models, here you go:



I think they scale pretty nicely.

There's also this picture:

 Kroothawk wrote:

Okay, what would you suggest?
a.) Unlock all miniatures on day one and then unlock nothing for the other 32 days?
b.) Unlock an army of 150 individual sculpted models per day (while staying at the keyboard to answer any questions within 10 seconds, night and day, of course)?

Honestly, I'd love it if they went with option A, but cut the time down to like 3 days. I think that when you have three months of "We're going to do a kickstarter" updates, the hype's already there. I don't honestly believe that they're going to add a lot of random stragglers by dragging this out. There are people who know what they want and are already pledged in (and who did so really quickly), and there are people who are waiting until the last minute to see what unlocks before deciding. So, tell them what's going to be unlocked and let them make their pledge (or not) and get on with it.

I don't understand the point of stringing these things out, I really don't. If you're into sci-fi miniatures, you've probably already seen their work, and know it's top quality. Jim's been posting their stuff for a few months now on his blog, and RH has been pimping the kickstarter via both email and facebook for at least two months as well.

Looking at the graphs that Buzzsaw posted earlier, for Malifaux and Deadzone, when you get a bar graph that looks like La_________________________I, there's no good reason not to reduce the middle section. In fact, when you look at the Malifaux one, it's pretty obvious that it went too long because the number of backers/day dropped negative around day 25. There's no compelling reason to drag these things out so long.

So I've been trying to follow what's going on the last few days with this Kickstarter and overall I'm liking the look of it. This may very well be the first Minature Kickstarter I fund but I do have one issue to do with the way they are handling their stretch goals.

After funding a lot of Video games through Kickstarter they way I think it should be working is you propose your idea and how much you need and you're stretch goals are what you would like to do but aren't necessary for the final product. e.g. One of the games I funded said that after X amount of additional funding we can afford to hire this experienced writer to help us with the game.

The stretch goals should never be adjusted based on how fast funds are being raised, they should be a set amount based on how much the project team thinks it will cost. Or maybe minature kickstarters are just handled differently to video game kickstarters and I'm not used to it.

Miniature kickstarters are definately not like most other kickstarters.

Just take a look at the Ouya console...
How many stretch goals did they had?

ZEEEERROOO

And free stuff?

NOOOTHING

Did it became the most successful kickstarter of all time?

Yes.

Why? Because they had a clear goal and needed the money for this.

But a miniature kickstarter without stretchgoals or free stuff seems to be unthinkable. And "stretchgoals" are nowadays more like:
"yeah, our project does not actually need just 12,000$, but it looks so much nicer if we hit 100000% saturation!"

I do not think 20k streachgoals are bad if they help lower the streachgoals bigger thing need.

 Kroothawk wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
At the risk of sounding like a whiny cry baby Joe Blow on the Interwebz, $20K to unlock a single model that is then a $10 add-on...

Okay, what would you suggest?

I'd suggest you calm down, not put words in other people's mouths and stop exaggerating.

That would help.

A lot.

There are valid concerns and criticisms here.

Seriously.

They've offered to enbiggen the things of those who need it?
That's awesome!

My main concern is pacing and critical mass, secondary is presentation.

Both have to be well timed, I do not think its time for a streachgoal per day yet and I do not count the first day blitz, communication is crucial for setting a temp and this side needs work too.

Presentation is crucial here with so much eye candy it surprisingly needs to be more timid coherent and to the point so people can find their way out.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Redbeard wrote:

Looking at the graphs that Buzzsaw posted earlier, for Malifaux and Deadzone, when you get a bar graph that looks like La_________________________I, there's no good reason not to reduce the middle section. In fact, when you look at the Malifaux one, it's pretty obvious that it went too long because the number of backers/day dropped negative around day 25. There's no compelling reason to drag these things out so long.

This slowly grinding line is what transforms the project in having the crucial mass to attract the I in the end.

 Redbeard wrote:
In fact, when you look at the Malifaux one, it's pretty obvious that it went too long because the number of backers/day dropped negative around day 25. There's no compelling reason to drag these things out so long.

Uh, Malifaux's problems are a whole different can of worms and of all the things wrong with it, "too long" wasn't one of them.

I think the 'too long' there was reference to fixing the issues they had with it.

One of which was listening to feedback and/or what people actually wanted?

Check Buzzsaw's wrap up post on that for more info - it is a good read.

I really don't see the comm complaints? Two large updates and two small ones over 48 hours, and the street team network via the Raging Heralds is pretty good about getting info fast for people who don't want to use the "contact me" function on KS which has also been moving fairly quickly to my knowledge. There was some lag day one, but it's hard to release an update when the money pledged has moved 50 grand up by the time you finish a paragraph.

I guess we could all be imaging that then...




And 'lack of communication' isn't the only criticism here.

I wish the Ultra Fans of the project wouldn't take it so personally.

We all want to see this succeed, and we all want to be able to field an army's worth (or two!) of fantastic looking miniatures.

I'm not taking this personally, nor am I an Ultra Fan by any extent, I am simply responding to valid complaints with valid responses.

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
Honestly, from a few interactions with them on Facebook, they were just as annoying in French. It came across as if they felt entitled to the adulation of the masses.

I'm in, but not sure if I'll stay.

Yeah, I get the impression my money's not good enough for them.

Maybe they should hire that guy who saved the Through the Breach campaign.

Communication could have been better from the beginning, but I was with Kingdom Death 3 seconds into the campaign and it was similar and I was still enjoyed the experience. The last update Raging Heroes put out allayed pretty much all of my concerns.

The only thing now I'm overly curious about is when we will get to see high quality images of the 3D renders. I want to see everything they've got, and they must have quite a few, because according to their comments on the front page, "we have set up and used for the past several months a sculpting workflow that allows us to create many miniatures quickly without compromising their quality. This means that 80% of the sculpting process will be done by the end of the Kickstarter."

I want to see how it's coming along!

 Buzzsaw wrote:
You see? It was all a misunderstanding: when they said that the updates would be like "spam", we thought they were using the American version, which is to say "frequent and common".

Well you know how spam is a delicacy in Hawaii? Well it's hard to get spam in France, so what they really meant was "rare and hard-to-find".

Right? Back me up here Euros...

They're doing about one a day. I'm fine with that pace.

[Read's 32 page thread]

Phew!

 Eggs wrote:
Still, very early days yet, and the complete opposite of my only other Kickstarter experience (Gates of Antares).

Oh, ouch. I'm sorry to hear GoA was your first. Most of my experiences with KS have been pleasant ones, hopefully this KS will be no different.

 Buzzsaw wrote:
I am, hard as it may be to believe, actually very interested in this project. That's why I want it to be as well run, and as good a value, as it possibly can be.

 Alpharius wrote:
We all want to see this succeed, and we all want to be able to field an army's worth (or two!) of fantastic looking miniatures.

Agreed with both Buzzsaw and Alpharius. They're not shy about voicing concerns but I never really take anything they've written as overly negative; it may not be flattering, but it's not malicious. Quite the contrary usually.

 Azazelx wrote:
What's twenty grand between friends?

Insurance to keep a dark secret as secret?

greywulf wrote:
Communication could have been better from the beginning, but I was with Kingdom Death 3 seconds into the campaign and it was similar and I was still enjoyed the experience.

I dunno about that. Granted I'm just today reading through the KS but that's not the feel I've gotten from it at all.

And just for fun! : List of Kingdom Death Stretch Goals and Addons

Haven't gone in on this KS yet. (A number of reasons for that, none of which involve internet drama.) But God help me if Allison makes an appearance.

The list of Kingdom Death stretch goals shows that most of the stretch goals were $25K - $50K apart. So I'm not sure why people are complaining so much here at $20K. As long as everyone, including Raging Heroes, do their part to help spread the word, there will be a whole lot of new chicks with guns in the world.

Because the majority of those in the beginning were providing additional models for free maybe?

Sythica wrote:
The list of Kingdom Death stretch goals shows that most of the stretch goals were $25K - $50K apart. So I'm not sure why people are complaining so much here at $20K. As long as everyone, including Raging Heroes, do their part to help spread the word, there will be a whole lot of new chicks with guns in the world.

Unless I am very mistaken, "GBU" in that google doc stands for "Game Box Upgrade".

"Survivor" means a free addition to the Survivor pledge level.

Of the 11 stretch goals up to $300,000, a grand total of 2(!) were paid add-ons, 9(!!) were free upgrades to either the base game or the "sweet spot" pledge level.

Seriously, the difference in value between what KD:M added in the first $300k and what RH is doing is... astounding.

Heck, what was the first stretch goal for KD:M?


Yup, 2 free kits (4 miniatures) in the game (GBU).

Soooo... given that, anyone want to explain why RH has thus far had $25-35k stretch goals and at $300k, added... uh, a partial miniature to some pledge levels?

On top of that, that was all for plastic miniatures too.

 Buzzsaw wrote:
Unless I am very mistaken, "GBU" in that google doc stands for "Game Box Upgrade".

"Survivor" means a free addition to the Survivor pledge level.

That is correct.