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See last post for results of this list at the tournament

So this is the current, and potentially final incarnation of my tournament list.

Eldrad

5 Fire Dragons - exarch, fast shot
Wave Serpent - TL SL, SC, Holofield

10 Guardians - BL

10 Guardians - BL

10 Guardians
Warlock

3 Jetbikes - SC

Crimson Hunter

Crimson Hunter

6 Swooping Hawks

3 War Walkers - Scatter Laser & Starcannon each

4 Dark Reapers - Exarch, starstrike missles, missile launcher for exarch, flakk missiles, fastshot.
Wave Serpent - TL SL, SC, Holofield

The serpent is listed for the reapers so I can deploy them inside if I want to keep them safe on turn 1. Usually the Warlock Guardian squad will be the squad using it.

Doesn't look that competitive to me if you'll pardon my saying so. Crimson Hunters are drastically overcosted. While they can easily shoot down a flyer, if there are more where that came from (or a bunch of interceptors/skyfire) they're going down in flames no matter what. 160 points is a lot for that kind of fragility.

And give your Dark Reapers flakk missiles! It's a no-brainer if you're taking Reapers. I also don't think you really need a transport for them, if they're unable to hide outside of range or LoS on turn 1, just toss them into reserves. They can enter the board shooting. It's not fun for them to miss a turn of shooting, but it's better than having to play hokey pokey with Guardians who are supposed to be riding that transport.

And I wouldn't bother with Hawks. Their trick is deep striking right next to a tank, throwing one haywire grenade and dealing a glancing hit, then dying horribly. There's just no way for these paper jump packers to survive the tabletop, unless the enemy has no tanks, in which case they'll just be ignored because they're not going to affect the battle. Warp Spiders are made of spankings in the new book, take them instead.

Hunters provide the anti air. The reapers with flak are the over costed option. Serpents can also take care of aa, with twin linked s6&s7. The war walkers too.

Hawks have much more utility than you say. They decimate light infantry, and their grenade pack is now ap4 and ignores cover. Which is amazing against xenos. And hawks don't scatter, and have a bunch of other tricks up their sleeve. If you think they're one trick ponies, you've clearly never actually played with/against them used well.

Good point, hawk grenade packs will make a lot of xenos infantry sad. I still don't like their fragility and versatility compared to Warp Spiders though.

We're gonna have to agree to disagree about crimson hunters, but IMO they just don't have the survivability to justify their points. Like most anti-air except for Necrons and Imperial Guard, it's more or less about making the best out of a bad situation, but hunters are not worth it to me.

Fair enough.

My plan against ig is to roll on divination and get scriers to make sure I get the first shots at them.

The hawks grenade pack is mainly to get rid of a squad of pathfinders on turn 2, thn start harassing some flanks, jumping back out of plan, before camping on an objective on turn 5.

If they have a ADL with a gun, your going to not want to hide your Reapers because you might need them to destroy that gun to protect your flyers.

Also, if you want your Reapers to survive, get two squads of 3. Drop the Serpent and you have plenty of firepower, firing at two targets instead of one to kill your enemy faster while your guardians camp or do whatever.

Frankly, it looks like a semi-gunline style list so I have to wonder why have the Warlock with a naked squad... give them a platform or make them storm guardians if they are your advancing force and give them two fusion guns for AT.

I am also not a fan of the suicide Dragon squad, but I understand their role. You just have plenty of heavy slots that do the same job without risking the unit and the transport, specially if you do go 2 dark reaper squads.

Ixe is still correct to say that the Hawks are still a suicide unit, even though their armor is better and they don't scatter. They are not coming in till turn 2 earliest and they can't Skyleap the turn they arrive...so if they do not come in Turn 2 and come in Turn 3, your getting them for potentially 1 turn a game or they are stuck in getting shot to bits after dropping 1 nade. Your not rocking a Autarch to get them in earlier... it is really a potential waste of points for one attack. I would rather have something that shoots more than once for the 121pts your spending.

The reapers serpent will typically get used by the naked guardian squad. They flat out forward on turn 1 with the dragons. Turn two, dragons, defenders and hawks all hit on the same flank. The warlock might deploy with the other squad of guardians, it all depends on the power rolled, and my opponent. Eldrad might even be with the defenders, I am thinking he'll pack some punch up close with Eldritch storm, executioner, and death mission.

On th serpents, I'm actually hoping my opponent shoots at them. 3+ cover save? Eldrad potentially making it 2+, glances only? Potentially fortuned? I'd much prefer they're looking for first blood there, instead of my walkers, reapers and guardians.

I think your guardian configs are stuck in the previous codex. You can get BLs cheaper elsewhere now, use Guardians in a Serpent in a similar manner to how DAs used to be used.

Reapers I'm not a fan of when those points could be spent on Walkers, Prisms or Wraiths in HS.

Hawks are pretty good Spiders are by some distance better. They are the biggest winners in this codex. They also help with your AA problem.,

For me the Crimson Hunter should be an Exarch. As others have said it may well get to shoot only once so you need it to kill what it points at.

I don't get the star cannon Walkers? Shuriken Cannon dovetails well with scatter laser. Starcannons and BLs should just be doubled up.

For 1850 pts it really seems like there isnt much in the list, having not yet played with the new codex thats about all I can offer.

 FlingitNow wrote:
I think your guardian configs are stuck in the previous codex. You can get BLs cheaper elsewhere now, use Guardians in a Serpent in a similar manner to how DAs used to be used.

Reapers I'm not a fan of when those points could be spent on Walkers, Prisms or Wraiths in HS.

Hawks are pretty good Spiders are by some distance better. They are the biggest winners in this codex. They also help with your AA problem.,

For me the Crimson Hunter should be an Exarch. As others have said it may well get to shoot only once so you need it to kill what it points at.

I don't get the star cannon Walkers? Shuriken Cannon dovetails well with scatter laser. Starcannons and BLs should just be doubled up.

Giving lances to guardians was a horrible idea in the previous codex. They're there now, as those guardians will be holding home objectives a rarely, if ever shoot their catapults. What would you recommend giving guardians? Other choices are the same cost. Except cannons.

The reapers are veritile fire support. Str5, str 8 and str7 flak missiles.youre high off your ass if you don't thinks reapers are worth it now.

Star cannon walkers are to take advantage of the twin linking of scatter lasers. At the star cannons have the same range as them.

For guardians I would take a Heavy weapon at all. Perhaps a cannon. Rangers are for back field objective holding.

As for the Readers you havent take the flakk missiles on the Exarch so no S7 skyfire. 38 points for a missile launcher with S&P is ok but not brilliant.

Why not just take 2 Starcannons on the Warwalkers same points more AP2 hits...

 FlingitNow wrote:
For guardians I would take a Heavy weapon at all. Perhaps a cannon. Rangers are for back field objective holding.

As for the Readers you havent take the flakk missiles on the Exarch so no S7 skyfire. 38 points for a missile launcher with S&P is ok but not brilliant.

Why not just take 2 Starcannons on the Warwalkers same points more AP2 hits...

Old list sorry, I did get flak in a recent build.

Star/scatter is to benefit from twin linked, and more shots for trying to take down fliers if I need to. I try to keep everything dual purpose for tournaments.

You will on average get 4 S6 hits on a flyer with the walkers not really a great AA option. The walkers in general are a poor AA option as the flakks are over priced. For AA the Eldar rely on FA or rerolls and Allies (Tau in particular).

Belly wrote:
The reapers serpent will typically get used by the naked guardian squad. They flat out forward on turn 1 with the dragons. Turn two, dragons, defenders and hawks all hit on the same flank. The warlock might deploy with the other squad of guardians, it all depends on the power rolled, and my opponent. Eldrad might even be with the defenders, I am thinking he'll pack some punch up close with Eldritch storm, executioner, and death mission.

On th serpents, I'm actually hoping my opponent shoots at them. 3+ cover save? Eldrad potentially making it 2+, glances only? Potentially fortuned? I'd much prefer they're looking for first blood there, instead of my walkers, reapers and guardians.

OK, your naked squad is going out with the Dragons... I still feel your better off making them Storm Guardians with 2 Fusion guns. You still get the bladestorm from the pistols and if you turn the Dragons into the same, it gives you a second attacking unit that scores for cheaper. Unless your doing this in hope the Dragons draw more fire (which they probably will), but I am not sure it is better. I would then get a second Warlock with a Spear to ride with the second Storm Guardian squad.

As far as I recall, you still can not use psyker powers inside a transport unless it is an attack power through a firing port. So I fail to see how your cover save is going to improve and with the Eldrad not being able to cast the same power twice anymore. They will simply shoot the non-Fortuned transport. Far as I can see, they really nerfed the Psykers for the Eldar, which is kind of a shame, but if they didn't they really would be over the top.

End of the day, the codex is to new to really say what is the best way to go. I think your list will work fine, but I think it can be better. That is a good thing.. there are multiple ways to win.

 BlkTom wrote:
OK, your naked squad is going out with the Dragons... I still feel your better off making them Storm Guardians with 2 Fusion guns. You still get the bladestorm from the pistols and if you turn the Dragons into the same, it gives you a second attacking unit that scores for cheaper. Unless your doing this in hope the Dragons draw more fire (which they probably will), but I am not sure it is better. I would then get a second Warlock with a Spear to ride with the second Storm Guardian squad.

As far as I recall, you still can not use psyker powers inside a transport unless it is an attack power through a firing port. So I fail to see how your cover save is going to improve and with the Eldrad not being able to cast the same power twice anymore. They will simply shoot the non-Fortuned transport. Far as I can see, they really nerfed the Psykers for the Eldar, which is kind of a shame, but if they didn't they really would be over the top.

End of the day, the codex is to new to really say what is the best way to go. I think your list will work fine, but I think it can be better. That is a good thing.. there are multiple ways to win.

I'm not sold on the Storm Guardians. An extra T3 attack is practically worthless against anything but guardsmen and their equivalents.

Fusion guns at BS4 is kinda handy, but I really want to try out the Battle Focus bladestorming drive-by. From what I hear, defenders can be pretty brutal in that role, and this list is a trial for me to see the new stuff and what works.

I'm not sure at all about the casting from inside transports. My understanding is that a psyker can only cast upon LOS. Being inside, they can see the transport, and their squad. Without fire hatches, they cannot cast outside the transport. To me, it makes sense thematically, but the rules-lawyers make thing otherwise. Anyone care to chime in?

From my understanding there is nothing in the Eldar book that lets them target outside of the skimmers. So you would follow all rules for Psychic powers. ie LOS needed.

Fusion guns at BS4 is kinda handy, but I really want to try out the Battle Focus bladestorming drive-by. From what I hear, defenders can be pretty brutal in that role, and this list is a trial for me to see the new stuff and what works.

10 Guardians with doom and guide on kill 8.7 marines on average almost exactly the same as the old baldestorming Dire Avengers but for far less points....

I'd honestly pull a Crimson Hunter for another caster for support, but that's just me. :-P

I think Spiritseers being able to attach AFTER they generate their powers unlike Warlocks can make them amazing support units, and they aren't that expensive.

OK. I just finished playing my first game with the new codex, and the one and oly test game I had for this list before the tournament.

I played a Daemons list, heavy on flamers and screamers. Daemon prince, bloodthirster, and lord of change. Turns out this is a pretty hard counter to the new codex.

Highlights. Crimson hunterswe quite strong against the FMC's. Much thought is needed in their placement.

Wave Serpents are freaking awesome. They pack so much punch. One serpent took out the quad-gun turn 1, by itself. 6' move, and fire everything at it, twin-linked.

Guardians may shoot better, but they still die much the same. Daemons closed quickly, but guardians are still as tough as wet tissue.

Dark reapers were solid. Guide them and they can put out some decent AA firepower. Two flakk missle hits will usually result in a Jink.

Losing RoW hurts. Daemons actually have psychic powers...huh?

Death Mission is a TERRIBLE idea. I will avoid using it from now on. Eldrad did kill a bloodthirster, and shortly thereafter died. I did get unlucky with my rolls though. (Guide, Mindwar, Executioner, Death Mission) Hardly useful.


List looks pretty solid. Maybe not against Daemons, but i'm looking forward to playing some marines.

How did you get 2 flakk missile hits from the Reapers? Again you seem to have no flakk missiles, also for nearly 200 points are those Reapers really worth it? Seems you were up against a poor daemon list (flamers suck now and screamed are situational at best). Killing a Thirster with Eldrad is a good points trade off. But with Fortune he should be able to do that without shutting himself down with Death Mission. Which let's face it is a terrible power...

In a previous post he said that he had Flakk, but just forgot to add it on the list here. So an Exarch with Fast Shot and Flakk would give him his two Flakk shots.

bikeroute wrote:
In a previous post he said that he had Flakk, but just forgot to add it on the list here. So an Exarch with Fast Shot and Flakk would give him his two Flakk shots.

That was exactly the case. I've amended the origional list to what my tournament list is. The main change is removing the Hawk Exarch for an EML and flakk missiles for the reaper exarch.

Belly,

I double checked the Psyker rules for targeting units, and on pg 67 of the BRB it says that a Psyker in a transport can only target himself, the transport, and another squad in the transport. They otherwise follow LoS rules.

I think in the old Eldar FAQ they had something that was along those lines and then there is this in the BRB FAQ

Q: Can Psykers use a Transport’s Fire Point(s) to manifest powers
that require line of sight whilst still embarked? (p78)
A: No. Note, however, that witchfire powers specifically
allow you to do so and are the one exception to this rule.

You should be good to go.

Sorry misread the previous post read it as he'd had flakk in a previous list and dropped it. Reading fail on may part.

OK! The tournament was this weekend just passed, so I thought for the good of those writing their own lists, i'd post some feedback on how mine went.

Exceedingly well, is how it went. I placed 2nd Overall, having won 4/4 games, only losing out by not beating my opponent as good as the eventual winner did. I did get a slightly lucky draw, in that I did not face any of the power players from the local scene. My opponents were;

Orks - Trukks/Wagons/Lootas
Tau - Riptide, 6 Crisis Suits, Longstrike, Ionhead and more
Guard - Blob & assorted tanks.
Black Templars? - 3 Landraider Crusaders, 1 Landraider Vanilla. ~30 Initiates + Champion and Captain. Yes, Black Templars. This guy was undefeated at the time, as it appeared that no-one had the tools to crack open 4 LR's, while I lucked out by having 6 Lance's, Haywire Grenades, and Eldrad managed to roll Eldrich storm, which is now haywire. So i'll now look at my units, and how they performed.

Eldrad - Eldrad did what Eldrad does. He sat around casting powers all game. He did get a couple of kills in CC though. Some crisis suits, firewarriors, and some outflanking guardsmen. Highlight was Eldrad getting squished by a powerclaw weilding stormboy nob in game 1. I could probably have gotten by with a regular farseer (or two) instead.

Warlock - Nothing special here. I may end up avoiding Warlocks, even though I play an Ulthwe army. A re-write of my list sees me with a 20 guardian blob, 2 BL's and a warlock with conceal sitting on my home objective, daring people to get within 18-24 inches of them.

Fire Dragons - Turns out, with the Lances on the guardians, and the Crimson Hunters - I had plenty of AA. These could be reduced to just 5 dragons without the exarch, or removed entirely.

Guardians - I'd have liked two 10 man squads, in wave serpents. Then another larger squad camping on my home objective, with a conceal warlock. thats 220 points to hold home base, but they also add to weight of fire with the lances. The 10 man squads would be in dakka serpents for drive-bys. They are strong now, just getting them into range can be difficult. Anything with a toughness value gets hammered by guardians. 235 points for a 10 man squad in a dakkaserpent. Well worth it. Two of these will become standard for me.

Wave Serpents - Damn they are good now. Nigh indestructable if you keep the shield, and put out a silly amount of firepower if you don't. I have two, and I will purchase at least 1 more soon. Holofields, and scatter lasers are the way to go. Maybe get the chin cannon.

Jetbikes - These won 3/4 games for me. Just by contesting/taking objective on turn 5-6. All for 61 points. I will get another 3 at least. too good to pass up. Just stick them in reserves and keep them safe.

Crimson Hunters - I didn't face too many fliers, only the Templars list had a stormraven. They did pop 2/4 landraiders that game though, so they were handy. Died to interceptor against Tau, and I kept them out of the game against Guard. Very fragile, you want to be able to pick when they arrive, so an Autarch/Sciers gaze is needed.

Swooping Hawks - Man I love these guys. Game one, they took out the lootas. Those Assault 3, Str 3 Ap 5 guns look tame, but against T4, they are as strong as a storm bolter. And then they drop that blast on the way in. With Jump Packs, and Haywire, for 16 points each. Too good to pass up. And no-one ever rates them. Game two, they took out a unit of pathfinders, but died to interceptor. Game 3, they hit the command squad hiding at the back, getting me the Warlord point I ended up winning by, then running in the shooting phase to sit on an objective with the jetbikes. Game 4, they took out a landraider, and SOMEHOW survived 3 important combat rounds against a squad of marines and the Emperors Champion. My Tournament MVP's.

War Walkers - They put out some Dakka, and died. With Wave Serpents being so good at this now, I may end up dropping them. Even with their new 5++, AND fortune half the time, they still explode too easy. Battle Focus helps, but they are still quite pricey for something so fragile. Unsure what i'll do with them.

Dark Reapers - Fun to use, much utility. With the Str 8 missiles, they can do some damage. Flakk missiles on the exarch was useful the one time I needed it. Expensive to get there...I think i'll have to playtest them some more against some flyer heavy lists.


So yeah, that was my tournament. I'm looking forward to playing some friendly games with the new dex, specifically looking at Scorpions, Spiders and Support Weapons.

I think Scorpions and Clowns will be the end all be all of melee for this Codex. I mean, by the way I read it, the Claw with Crushing Blow is a Str 8 power fist at Init 6. I say this because Crushing Blow just reads +1 Str. Not on the Charge, not at certain times, but all the time so it should be doubled. That is just amazing, and I keep waiting to see if it is nerfed to Init 1 and it hasn't.

I agree that I also think Eldrad has lost alittle of his luster due to not being able to cast the same power twice a turn. it is just I am really surprised that you can't upgrade psychic mastery levels so your stuck at 3 for Farseers and 2 for Spirit Seers. I am starting to think the Autarch with his subtle manipulation of the reserve rolls plus a Psyker is looking really strong, specially if you use a lot in reserve (Hawks, flyers, bikes, ect). I think Asurmen with his 3 warlord traits plus a Psyker might be a good choice as well. They just weakened Eldar psykers so much that it makes the other HQs look a lot more attractive. Is this a good thing? Not if you want Wraithguard as troops and you want better than a lvl 2 Psyker as a HQ choice.

I am really stoked to hear about Serpents doing well and the regular Guardian doing well. I feel they have made Guardians a good option and yet different from Dire Avengers. I would like to do some testing of foot DA with a Shimmer Shield to see how survivable they are and if they can hold their own in CC if needed while the Guardians give you additional long range firepower that the DA can not give.

I think testing Eldar to see how well they can do in melee, even to the extream as doing a all melee force can help find a balance. For example, if Storm Guardians can hold their own in melee vs a Ork charge, yet still pack Fusion guns for AT might mean Fire Dragons are no longer that important. Would throwing a Warlock in with a Spear make a difference. Those questions can only be answered through playing.

Thanks Belly for the report on the list!

I am really surprised your list did so well, with the prevalence at most tournaments to have Crons with Scythes/Barges and Helldrakes...most people meta in an Aegis for Interceptor AA. The fact that none of this showed up at your tournament has me baffled. These are the stronger meta items, and none were played?

 Farseer Faenyin wrote:
I am really surprised your list did so well, with the prevalence at most tournaments to have Crons with Scythes/Barges and Helldrakes...most people meta in an Aegis for Interceptor AA. The fact that none of this showed up at your tournament has me baffled. These are the stronger meta items, and none were played?

I guess my local meta, at least this time was not overly beardy and cheesy.

The 3rd placed player had a wraith/scythe spam list, and I saw maybe 4-6 helldrakes all day between the ~30 players.

Thanks Blktom for the feedback. I'm testing out some other stuff i've not played with tonight.

Running a list that includes;
Avatar, Autarch w/ Jump pack, Scorpions, FusionStorm Guardians, Warp Spiders, and Wraithlords. All things i've not touched in the new codex....yet. No idea on what i'll be facing, but I hope it's a MEQ army