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There is a decent community of gamers here (about 80+)
Our store has been open nearly 3 years now, we recently got a new manager about 6 months ago, since then we've not allowed to game in store. The managers reason for this is 'The store is here for helping beginners, not for the veteran's to have an open place to game'

Since this our community has been really put out and no longer have a place to game really, as a result of this people have been refusing to buy products from the store.

Anyone come across this at all?

Our local GW store sets aside specific days and times of those days for Beginners only. Outside of that (or any other scheduled events) it's all-welcome.

I personally would write a complaint to GW HQ (CC'd to the store manager as well) about this situation you are facing. Including the direct statement that, as the "store is here for helping beginners" then clearly veterans who continue to buy stuff are not welcome and you will take your business elsewhere.

If (as others are stating) this is a GW directive, then it clearly has not hit all stores (certainly not at all here in Ontario, Canada)

Kind of old new man, been happening around the globe for a few months now.

I'd take my business elsewhere, if possible. If his store doesn't show growth, he's not going to have a very long career at GW.

Yeah I was told the same thing by our local GW manager.
It has nothing to do with the store managers themselves, remember, they are into the game just like you and I, and they also see the benefits of having games played in store.
It is a directive from GW HO.
GW are making a lot of errors at the moment. Which will in turn hurt their bottom line.

Pay where you play swings both ways. If they won't let you play, take your purchasing power elsewhere. It is really that simple. He may think a majority of you are loitering non-customers... If he is right, then his decision works out. If he is wrong, you guys need to show him that by voting with your wallet.

My GWs always have great gaming especially for us who purchase in the store.

nkelsch wrote:
If they won't let you play, take your purchasing power elsewhere.

And be sure to call GW and (politely) inform them that you are taking your business elsewhere because of the manager's policies.

 Peregrine wrote:

nkelsch wrote:
If they won't let you play, take your purchasing power elsewhere.

And be sure to call GW and (politely) inform them that you are taking your business elsewhere because of the manager's policies.

Definitely do this, but also look at other game systems out there-try new games. I love 40k lore, especially the Horus Heresy, but I've tried new games, liked some, loved some, didn't like others. I'm not asking you to throw GW away, but use th opportunity to try other things, and let GW know you're choosing to do that. If enough people make that call, or letter, they'll sit up and take notice. If nobody does anything, they'll keep doing it.

My City's store has a day set aside for people to come in and game and a day set for helping beginners, the rest of the week is pretty much come ad go as you like ad has been since i started this hobby 10 years ago so i hope my store doesn't go that way.

Talk to people in your community to see if they want to start up a club. Look at churches, pubs, anywhere that has open spaces for rent, and rent them out once a week/fortnight/month, with as many people chipping in to lighten the load.

Why are these guys called Gamesworkshop again?

V1ND4LOO wrote:
Why are these guys called Gamesworkshop again?

Because they use the idea of having a game to sell toys to kids.

Veteran hobbyists obviously don't purchase nearly as much as a new player buying a $100 starter set and $50 in supplies only to burn out in 6 months. That never happens. No way. It is a terrible business model to establish a stable flow of revenue from a dedicated community that is willing to throw a large portion of their paycheck at you.

All jokes aside though, get your group together and pool some cash to build a table or two that can be broken down. Put them up in someone's basement/garage, put on some tunes, grab some brews, and have a good time. That manager will regret his decision in a year when he loses his job for only making sporadic sales of starter boxes.

Or support your LFGS if you have one.

Veteran hobbyists obviously don't purchase nearly as much as a new player buying a $100 starter set and $50 in supplies only to burn out in 6 months. That never happens. No way. It is a terrible business model to establish a stable flow of revenue from a dedicated community that is willing to throw a large portion of their paycheck at you.

Not particularly true. There are some vets that do spend because they enjoy the hobby. I had a $2400 per year budget just for GW. Until they pissed me off on how they were doing their business model.

When you think about it you can certainly understand the logic behind GW’s decision here. I mean, the last thing you want is for your retail store to be full of people clearly enjoying themselves. Empty stores devoid of customers are always more inviting to the casual passerby.

silvu wrote:
There is a decent community of gamers here (about 80+)
Our store has been open nearly 3 years now, we recently got a new manager about 6 months ago, since then we've not allowed to game in store. The managers reason for this is 'The store is here for helping beginners, not for the veteran's to have an open place to game'

Since this our community has been really put out and no longer have a place to game really, as a result of this people have been refusing to buy products from the store.

Anyone come across this at all?

Check with the local Library... a lot of libraries will have rooms that you can use for gaming if you can keep it kinda quiet, or find another store and forget GW...

 caledoneus wrote:

silvu wrote:
There is a decent community of gamers here (about 80+)
Our store has been open nearly 3 years now, we recently got a new manager about 6 months ago, since then we've not allowed to game in store. The managers reason for this is 'The store is here for helping beginners, not for the veteran's to have an open place to game'

Since this our community has been really put out and no longer have a place to game really, as a result of this people have been refusing to buy products from the store.

Anyone come across this at all?

Check with the local Library... a lot of libraries will have rooms that you can use for gaming if you can keep it kinda quiet, or find another store and forget GW...

Local universities are a good bet , also. As far as the store goes, Ebay like crazy rather than take your business to that guy if your crew is buying enough product to justify him giving you some space. I have known groups of gamers, however, that just hang out, getting in the way of people trying to get to the shelves.

I don't know the situation at your store so it's an open question for me if the guy is just being a dick or if he's justified.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
When you think about it you can certainly understand the logic behind GW’s decision here. I mean, the last thing you want is for your retail store to be full of people clearly enjoying themselves. Empty stores devoid of customers are always more inviting to the casual passerby.

Especially when the product they're selling is about being social with other people. An empty store with a creepy solo staff manager is a great way to entice younger people into a social hobby!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Relapse wrote:
I have known groups of gamers, however, that just hang out, getting in the way of people trying to get to the shelves.

This will always happen. The problem is with GW's store setup, with tables right in the center and only a few feet of walking space around them to browse.

Good stores have an entirely separate gaming area, so people can hang out, game and chat while staff occasionally look in to make sure everything is okay, while the staff primarily man the counter in a separate area. Shoppers can shop without tripping over stinky gamers, and those gamers can game without tripping over newbies they for some reason don't want getting into their hobby.

silvu wrote:
There is a decent community of gamers here (about 80+)
Our store has been open nearly 3 years now, we recently got a new manager about 6 months ago, since then we've not allowed to game in store. The managers reason for this is 'The store is here for helping beginners, not for the veteran's to have an open place to game'

Since this our community has been really put out and no longer have a place to game really, as a result of this people have been refusing to buy products from the store.

Anyone come across this at all?

Well there's your problem, he probably doesn't have nearly enough tables.

Start a club, if you guys are fairly close it shouldn't be hard to organize. Heck, the Gw manager will probably help you.

GW's business is doing so well that they can afford to throw the baby out with the bathwater. I mean, I earn a great income and spend a hefty sum on models every year...but, hey, I have been collecting for around twenty years. If some vets don't buy a lot of models, then the answer is to keep all vets away. Some profit is just not worth it. Why should reality get in the way of an ill thought out marketing plan?

 Adam LongWalker wrote:

Veteran hobbyists obviously don't purchase nearly as much as a new player buying a $100 starter set and $50 in supplies only to burn out in 6 months. That never happens. No way. It is a terrible business model to establish a stable flow of revenue from a dedicated community that is willing to throw a large portion of their paycheck at you.

Not particularly true. There are some vets that do spend because they enjoy the hobby. I had a $2400 per year budget just for GW. Until they pissed me off on how they were doing their business model.

I think you missed my sarcasm. I guess that doesn't exactly translate well over the internet.

silvu wrote:
There is a decent community of gamers here (about 80+)
Our store has been open nearly 3 years now, we recently got a new manager about 6 months ago, since then we've not allowed to game in store. The managers reason for this is 'The store is here for helping beginners, not for the veteran's to have an open place to game'

Since this our community has been really put out and no longer have a place to game really, as a result of this people have been refusing to buy products from the store.

If everyone stops buying from the store, the manager will be fired eventually and things might change for the better. In the meantime, there is a whole world of non-GW games that you can buy from around the world (since they don't have GW's restrictions) to build, paint, and play. It would be a different story if the store didn't support play at all ever outside of demos but that doesn't sound like the case. They've specifically changed and told you that you're not welcome. I've had the same thing happen to me (although not so explicitly) when a store manager asked "what the hell I was thinking" when I sat down at an empty unused table for a game. I stopped shopping there and found a much, much better store (albeit one that is signficantly further away though).

and remember every time you go in to the store drop in to the conversation " i cant buy any of this new stuff atm because i have nowhere to game" then smile and say well "and if i cant game here then i might aswell go to hobbycraft up the road as its cheaper bye"

I was somewhat surprised to hear that the gw oxford had a similar policy.

Kind of boggles the mind really... ive walked past the store a few times and there is plenty of room for gaming and there is healthy foot traffic past the store front. Filling a couple of the tables with gamers through the day would, i would have thought, be great advertising.

Do we have any conception of how this works across GW stores?

We've found most of them still have open gaming with lots of vets around. But a couple, like Poole and Southampton, seem to have very little going on.

I'm sure I've seen a letter posted, instrucing managers to discontinue gaming, but leaving some discretion. Do we know when the policy was introduced? And is the policiy becoming more widespread, or simply being quietly dropped?

 -Loki- wrote:
Look at churches

I just imagined a GK player shouting BURN THE HERETIC! in church.

With a group of suppsedly 80+ players, theres no reason to not set up and run a succesful independent club - loads of places have rooms for hire and with at least 30+ you'll easily cover the hire charges.

Cut the apron strings!

Do you have a local gaming club to attend?
If not, ask the GW manager to help- they have the info and resources to help and should really help if you ask.
One of my local GWs got rid of gaming entirely in the store, but not before the manager had made sure there were gaming clubs available pretty much every evening of the week, including an under 16 club.

My regular GW manager says that there's no policy on this at all from HQ, it's all up to individual managers and what they think is best for their store.

 Lorizael wrote:
Do you have a local gaming club to attend?
If not, ask the GW manager to help- they have the info and resources to help and should really help if you ask.
One of my local GWs got rid of gaming entirely in the store, but not before the manager had made sure there were gaming clubs available pretty much every evening of the week, including an under 16 club.

My regular GW manager says that there's no policy on this at all from HQ, it's all up to individual managers and what they think is best for their store.

I agree. Every GW I have seen is super supportive of clubs and 40k-related events in the area even when at Indy tourneys or other FLGS. They want you to play 40k, even if it is not in the small 1-man store.

If a store makes a heavy handed policy like this, it is usually because the store has been infested with non-customers taking up space. I have seen this done at FLGS where basically a 'gang' of bully veterans who buy everything online or have old models takes over gaming space, drives other real customers away by their closed-'click' and loses the store money. So the Owner does 'something' to drive them away and then later restores open play. More often than not, it is a good and NEEDED move for the store to chase away the deadbeats. FLGS often just stop open play and flood the store with MTG until the Wargamers leave, or make people pay for space but GW can't simply say 'sorry guys, we playing MTG today.' so they have to be blunt.

Store owners know who is a customer and who isn't. They also know how to communicate to real customers that they are still welcome. This is not a GW issue, this issue is the same for all FLGS.

Support your other local stores, if there are any. GW's store finder only lists 1 other place in town. Dakka's Store Finder doesn't even list that.

You'll be looking to get a club going, of you can.
Lots of clubs have help from GW, going by the GW site.
"http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/articleCategory.jsp?communityArticleCatId=700001&articleCatId=700001&catId=§ion=community"
Chuck GW HQ an email, and post a copy of anything juicy you get posted on your GW store's Facebook page.

Are most of your gamers over 18?
If not, your choice of venues is limited a bit.
Try church halls, rooms at schools, in pubs, sports clubs, etc.
If you can reliably pay to rent a room for a day with the number of people you have, you'll need storage of your scenery, and use of tables.