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I mean if you really don't want the baby for whatever reason you could put it up for adoption, even if you were raped, made a mistake, etc.
Though above all I think prevention of irresponsible non-safe sex should be the focus as well as emphasizing responsibility for the actions you have taken. One thing I find annoying with the current mindset of many people is that they claim they have rights but recognize none of the responsibilities that come along with it.
I mean if you really don't want the baby for whatever reason you could put it up for adoption, even if you were raped, made a mistake, etc.
Though above all I think prevention of irresponsible non-safe sex should be the focus as well as emphasizing responsibility for the actions you have taken. One thing I find annoying with the current mindset of many people is that they claim they have rights but recognize none of the responsibilities that come along with it.
Most people grow out of that, eventually.
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Haters gon' hate.
I do not see how it is my business what any woman does with her body...
I guess Pro-Choice, but more of a It is your body do with it what you will kind of attitude...
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Kovnik Obama wrote: If something is bound to develop itself into something which is considered of great value, or of the greatest value as it is often claimed, then it seems to me that you should not be treated entirely according to its current value. A 6 week old fetus is, yes, something digusting and hardly recognizable, incapable of anything currently, yet it still the seat of one of the greatest acheivement of nature ; human life in general, and the human brain and nervous system in particular.
But it's also replaceable. Decide you want a child later? It's easy to make another one. But now it has negative value to the soon-to-be parent.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Grimskul wrote: I mean if you really don't want the baby for whatever reason you could put it up for adoption, even if you were raped, made a mistake, etc.
So you think that a woman who is raped should have to spend the next nine months dealing with all the physical changes of pregnancy and a constant reminder of what happened? All so that a blob of meat with less "personhood" than a cockroach can be saved?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/06/05 05:10:00
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
As a person in the medical field pro life exept in cases of mother dying or other major handicaps.
Reason being health problems most of the time to the women physical and mentally.
When a conception happens it is qualified as a human life.
The human life ie child, baby, lump of cells ,etc is active in thinking and does have brain functions like a normal human.
Pregnancy prevention is cheap you can get them from Walmart or other places for less then a $1 or at a local pregnancy prevention place for free.
Some abortion places will let you get a abortion for only a $1 and don"t not need signatures from judge or parents and is a walk on in no appointments needed.
IMPERIALGUARD40K wrote: The human life ie child, baby, lump of cells ,etc is active in thinking and does have brain functions like a normal human.
No it isn't. Higher-level brain functions (IOW, the things that make us different from a cockroach) do not appear until after the vast majority of voluntary abortions would happen.
Pregnancy prevention is cheap you can get them from Walmart or other places for less then a $1 or at a local pregnancy prevention place for free.
And it's not 100% effective. Most people are not stupid enough to use abortion as their primary method of birth control, it's a last resort when the primary method fails.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
Hmm, people comparing a woman's right to choose an abortion procedure on her body, to a man beating her up and causing it to abort. I wonder why those things are different. Could it be because the woman has extra and unique privileges, as the person carrying the child, that means it isn't murder or some form of illegal killing? The fact the two are being compared, and all the other extreme comparisons, shows how fethed up the abortion debate is.
Pro Choice, I hate abortions personally outside of medical necessity because I see it as a failure of personal responsibility, but A. I'd rather see an abortion then a child suffering unprepared parent(s) who didn't want that child and more importantly B. It's none of my business.
I beg of you sarge let me lead the charge when the battle lines are drawn
Lemme at least leave a good hoof beat they'll remember loud and long
IMPERIALGUARD40K wrote: Reason being health problems most of the time to the women physical and mentally.
And yet no consideration as to the many and long term problems associated with an unwanted pregnancy going to term and the raising of an unwanted child tgat arr placed on thr mother and societyat large?
When a conception happens it is qualified as a human life.
The human life ie child, baby, lump of cells ,etc is active in thinking and does have brain functions like a normal human.
I hate to think wherr in the healthcare field you work given your completelack of understanding of the legal and medical thought on how a foetus develops and functions. Iy is amazing that i tpo work in the healthcare field and while my views agree with the majority of medical publications yours dont...
Pregnancy prevention is cheap you can get them from Walmart or other places for less then a $1 or at a local pregnancy prevention place for free.
As has been mentioned, contraception osnt 100% - even if it was, people still make mistakes.
Some abortion places will let you get a abortion for only a $1 and don"t not need signatures from judge or parents and is a walk on in no appointments needed.
It is good that they don't charge any mpre thab a nominal fee. There are plenty of wpmen who would have to resort to back street clinics or even cruder, more dangerous alternatives of they could npt easilu access affordable healthcare.
Sorry for typos, stupidd touch screen pn way to work.
Maybe the difference between under-30s and their elders isn’t the era in which they grew up. Maybe it’s a lack of life experience. As young people pass from their 20s to their 30s, they get married and have kids. They lose their naïvete about self-realization, having it all, the equality of family structures, and the interchangeability of moms and dads. According to this theory, the reason why older people are more likely to believe that unwed motherhood is a big problem, or that kids do better with stay-at-home moms, is that beyond the age of 30, you discover that these things are true.
Spoiler:
Are Americans becoming more liberal about marriage, parenthood, and working women? A survey released last week by the Pew Research Center suggests we are. The survey showed big gaps between younger and older Americans on several questions: whether working moms make it harder to sustain successful marriages and raise children, whether kids are better off if their mothers stay home, and whether the increasing number of unwed mothers is a big problem.
The superficial interpretation of these findings is that the country will become more relaxed about family structure as the new generation replaces its elders. But on closer inspection, the picture is more complicated. What makes older people more conservative isn’t just age. It’s marital and parental experience. Yes, the population has become more liberal. But many of today’s young people will turn more conservative as they become moms and dads.
The Pew report cites previous polls that indicate changes in public opinion over time. In 1997, 82 percent of Americans said that the increasing number of women working for pay outside the home made it harder to raise kids, and 67 percent said it made successful marriages more difficult. In the new survey, those numbers have fallen, respectively, by eight and 17 percentage points. In 2003, 61 percent of Americans said children were better off if their mothers didn’t work outside the home. Today, that number is down to 51 percent. In 2007, 71 percent of Americans said that the increased prevalence of unwed mothers was a big problem. Now that number has slipped to 64 percent.
At first glance, the age breakdown of the Pew survey suggests these trends will continue. Compared with respondents aged 65 or older, respondents aged 18–29 were far less likely to say that unwed motherhood was a big problem (42 vs. 74 percent), that kids were better off if their mothers stayed home (37 vs. 58 percent), or that working moms made it harder to raise kids (60 vs. 76 percent) or sustain successful marriages (36 vs. 52 percent). It’s natural to infer that as sexists die out, the next cohort to reach middle age will be more egalitarian.
But the trend isn’t that simple. Take the question of whether the increase in working moms has made it harder for marriages to succeed. Among respondents under 30, the percentage who espoused this view was 36. Among respondents aged 30–49, the percentage rose to 54. But in the older age brackets—50 to 64, and 65 and over—there was no further increase. People born in the 1970s didn’t answer the question any differently from people born in the 1940s. The only division was between those who had turned 30 and those who hadn’t.
That raises an alternative possibility. Maybe the difference between under-30s and their elders isn’t the era in which they grew up. Maybe it’s a lack of life experience. As young people pass from their 20s to their 30s, they get married and have kids. They lose their naïvete about self-realization, having it all, the equality of family structures, and the interchangeability of moms and dads. According to this theory, the reason why older people are more likely to believe that unwed motherhood is a big problem, or that kids do better with stay-at-home moms, is that beyond the age of 30, you discover that these things are true.
Pew’s initial report showed little evidence for this theory. But Pew is no ordinary pollster. The folks who work there go out of their way to help reporters use their data. If you ask them to slice the numbers in a different way, within reason, they’ll do it. I asked them to break down the sample based on respondents’ answers to two other questions in the survey. One question was: “Are you currently married, living with a partner, divorced, separated, widowed, or have you never been married?” The other question was: “Do you have any children under age 18?” I wanted to see whether marital or parental experience influenced the respondents’ attitudes about wives and mothers.
The first tables Pew sent back were intriguing but fuzzy. Parental status made some difference, but not a lot, and not consistently. Marital status made a bigger difference, but the patterns weren’t clear. The categories were confusing. People who had no kids under 18 might be nonparents, or they might be empty-nesters. People who weren’t married might never have had a spouse, or they might have lost one. So I asked the researchers at Pew to separate the respondents without minor children into two subcategories: those over 50, who were more likely to be empty-nesters, and those under 50, who were more likely to be childless. I also requested three marital categories: married, never-married, and an “ex-married” group consisting of respondents who were separated, divorced, or widowed.
This time, the tables showed striking differences. On the attitudinal questions, people aged 50 or older who didn’t have minor children weren’t much different from people of any age who did have such children. But people under 50 who didn’t have minor children—the true nonparents—diverged sharply from those who had kids. Compared to parents under 50, nonparents under 50 were less likely to say that working mothers made it harder to raise kids (62 vs. 79 percent), less likely to say that working mothers made it harder for marriages to succeed (38 vs. 56 percent), less likely to say that kids were better off if their mothers stayed home (36 vs. 47 percent), and less likely to call unwed motherhood a big problem (49 vs. 63 percent).
The tables exposed similar gaps based on marital experience. Compared with people who had never been married, those who were married at the time of the survey were more likely to say that working mothers made it harder to raise kids (82 vs. 62 percent), more likely to say that working mothers made it harder for marriages to succeed (56 vs. 37 percent), more likely to say that kids were better off with their mothers at home (56 vs. 30 percent), and more likely to say that unwed motherhood was a big problem (74 vs. 44 percent). In nearly every case, the gap between marrieds and never-marrieds was bigger than the gap between the youngest age group (18–29) and the oldest (65+). If you want to predict what somebody thinks about women and families, marital experience is a better clue than age.
On their face, these numbers imply that marriage and parenthood could mitigate, or perhaps even halt, the liberal trend in public opinion. But that, too, is uncertain. On some questions, the cultural fight is effectively over. In the Pew survey, fewer than 30 percent of young people agree that it’s better for a marriage if a husband earns more than his wife, and the number doesn’t rise with age until you get to senior citizens. That sort of male supremacism seems to have fallen into permanent minority status. (On the other hand, even among young people, there’s a 30-point gap between the percentage who say kids do better with a stay-at-home mom and the percentage who say kids do better with a stay-at-home dad.) Furthermore, it’s highly plausible that many of the attitudinal differences between married and never-married people, and between parents and nonparents, are causes rather than consequences of marriage and parenthood. If you’re socially conservative, you’re more likely to get hitched and have babies.
But to the extent that experience affects our attitudes about women and families, what’s really intriguing in the Pew data is evidence that this factor cuts both ways. If entering marriage makes you more conservative, leaving it seems to make you more liberal.
To illuminate this pattern, you have to compare married respondents to respondents who classified themselves as separated, divorced, or widowed. On three of the four attitudinal questions, these ex-married respondents were significantly more conservative than never-married respondents, but not quite as conservative as married ones. Compared to marrieds, ex-marrieds were less likely to say that working mothers made it harder to raise kids (75 vs. 82 percent), less likely to say that kids were better off with stay-at-home moms (48 vs. 56 percent), and less likely to call unwed motherhood a big problem (65 vs. 74 percent). The only question on which the gap closed was the one about whether working mothers made it harder for marriages to succeed—a question on which a broken marriage obviously makes you more likely to say yes.
Maybe the sort of people who separate or divorce are simply more liberal than those who stay married. Or maybe the experience of living alone again, and perhaps raising a child by yourself, sometimes restores your confidence that working women can raise children without men around. Conservatives might expect the opposite: After your divorce, you’d find that raising a child on your own as a working parent is harder than it was when you had a spouse’s help. Either way, we’re better off if experience, not age, drives public opinion. Debates about marriage, motherhood, and sexual equality are best resolved not by dying but by living: not by the expiration of our elders, but by learning which claims about happiness and family structure—the left’s or the right’s—turn out, in real life, to be true.
Correlation does not prove causation and Holy feth that is condescending. "They just don't know better", eh?
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
I mean if you really don't want the baby for whatever reason you could put it up for adoption, even if you were raped, made a mistake, etc.
Though above all I think prevention of irresponsible non-safe sex should be the focus as well as emphasizing responsibility for the actions you have taken. One thing I find annoying with the current mindset of many people is that they claim they have rights but recognize none of the responsibilities that come along with it.
adoption is not always an option. Especially among minority communities. Many couple who are adopting are spending slot of money for a kid. They often want one of the same race of them.
hotsauceman1 wrote: adoption is not always an option. Especially among minority communities. Many couple who are adopting are spending slot of money for a kid. They often want one of the same race of them.
I would sure like to see your stats for that. When my wife and I were stationed at Ft Hood (Bell County TX) we tried to adopt through the state, and clearly stated we would accept black, Hispanic, mix raced kids, whatever. And I know many adoptive parents who are the same way. I can get into details if desired but the short story is a social worker informed my wife and I that we 'couldn't raise non-white kids in their culture' and it ended up being easier to adopt from overseas than through the state. My sons are from Russia, daughter is Chinese and two brothers are from Korea (one is mix raced). Cost of adoptions has many factors (and it CAN be very expensive, but that is when you use a private agency vice the state).
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings.
hotsauceman1 wrote: adoption is not always an option. Especially among minority communities. Many couple who are adopting are spending slot of money for a kid. They often want one of the same race of them.
I would sure like to see your stats for that. When my wife and I were stationed at Ft Hood (Bell County TX) we tried to adopt through the state, and clearly stated we would accept black, Hispanic, mix raced kids, whatever. And I know many adoptive parents who are the same way. I can get into details if desired but the short story is a social worker informed my wife and I that we 'couldn't raise non-white kids in their culture' and it ended up being easier to adopt from overseas than through the state. My sons are from Russia, daughter is Chinese and two brothers are from Korea (one is mix raced). Cost of adoptions has many factors (and it CAN be very expensive, but that is when you use a private agency vice the state).
Please tell me you named Russian boys Jose and Joseppi; the daughter Svetlana; and Korean sons Cletus and Skeeter. There's still time. They'll adjust to their new names.
EDIT: I wanted to rename the kids Moneysink1 and Moneysink2 but She Who Must Be Obeyed corrected me on that. The doc says the concussion didn't leave too much permanent damage.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/06/05 15:19:11
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CptJake wrote: I would sure like to see your stats for that. When my wife and I were stationed at Ft Hood (Bell County TX) we tried to adopt through the state, and clearly stated we would accept black, Hispanic, mix raced kids, whatever. And I know many adoptive parents who are the same way. I can get into details if desired but the short story is a social worker informed my wife and I that we 'couldn't raise non-white kids in their culture' and it ended up being easier to adopt from overseas than through the state. My sons are from Russia, daughter is Chinese and two brothers are from Korea (one is mix raced). Cost of adoptions has many factors (and it CAN be very expensive, but that is when you use a private agency vice the state).
See kids. Adoption is not just for Angelina and Madonna
master of ordinance wrote: Pro choice. If a lady is pregnant and dosnt wish for the child then i see no reason as to stop her having an abortion. It is her body after all.
I agree with your statement mostly while I agree that its a woman's choice to get an abortion it is also her choice to make sure proper precautions are taken as well . This is not to say that it also not the men's choice to take proper precautions, but if a woman doesn't want an unwanted pregnancy then she should tell the guy to wrap it before he can tap it...
Edited due to PMs
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/06/05 17:05:04
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SilverMK2 wrote: And yet no consideration as to the many and long term problems associated with an unwanted pregnancy going to term and the raising of an unwanted child tgat arr placed on thr mother and societyat large?
Did you just have a stroke?
"So, do please come along when we're promoting something new and need photos for the facebook page or to send to our regional manager, do please engage in our gaming when we're pushing something specific hard and need to get the little kiddies drifting past to want to come in an see what all the fuss is about. But otherwise, stay the feth out, you smelly, antisocial bastards, because we're scared you are going to say something that goes against our mantra of absolute devotion to the corporate motherland and we actually perceive any of you who've been gaming more than a year to be a hostile entity as you've been exposed to the internet and 'dangerous ideas'. " - MeanGreenStompa
"Then someone mentions Infinity and everyone ignores it because no one really plays it." - nkelsch
SilverMK2 wrote: And yet no consideration as to the many and long term problems associated with an unwanted pregnancy going to term and the raising of an unwanted child tgat arr placed on thr mother and societyat large?
Did you just have a stroke?
If you look at the bottom of that post you will see that I was on my phone on the way to work. I am still getting used to the new touch screen so my typing is a bit wobbly
SilverMK2 wrote: And yet no consideration as to the many and long term problems associated with an unwanted pregnancy going to term and the raising of an unwanted child tgat arr placed on thr mother and societyat large?
Did you just have a stroke?
If you look at the bottom of that post you will see that I was on my phone on the way to work. I am still getting used to the new touch screen so my typing is a bit wobbly
Just found it funny that the entire post up until that point was fine
"So, do please come along when we're promoting something new and need photos for the facebook page or to send to our regional manager, do please engage in our gaming when we're pushing something specific hard and need to get the little kiddies drifting past to want to come in an see what all the fuss is about. But otherwise, stay the feth out, you smelly, antisocial bastards, because we're scared you are going to say something that goes against our mantra of absolute devotion to the corporate motherland and we actually perceive any of you who've been gaming more than a year to be a hostile entity as you've been exposed to the internet and 'dangerous ideas'. " - MeanGreenStompa
"Then someone mentions Infinity and everyone ignores it because no one really plays it." - nkelsch
master of ordinance wrote: Pro choice. If a lady is pregnant and dosnt wish for the child then i see no reason as to stop her having an abortion. It is her body after all.
I agree with your statement mostly while I agree that its a woman's choice to get an abortion it is also her choice to make sure proper precautions are taken as well . This is not to say that it also not the men's choice to take proper precautions, but if a woman doesn't want an unwanted pregnancy then she should tell the guy to wrap it before he can tap it...
hotsauceman1 wrote: adoption is not always an option. Especially among minority communities. Many couple who are adopting are spending slot of money for a kid. They often want one of the same race of them.
I would sure like to see your stats for that. When my wife and I were stationed at Ft Hood (Bell County TX) we tried to adopt through the state, and clearly stated we would accept black, Hispanic, mix raced kids, whatever. And I know many adoptive parents who are the same way. I can get into details if desired but the short story is a social worker informed my wife and I that we 'couldn't raise non-white kids in their culture' and it ended up being easier to adopt from overseas than through the state. My sons are from Russia, daughter is Chinese and two brothers are from Korea (one is mix raced). Cost of adoptions has many factors (and it CAN be very expensive, but that is when you use a private agency vice the state).
Pro-choice. It should be a personal choice, not some random person deciding it for you.
Sorry for my spelling. I'm not a native speaker and a dyslexic.
1750 pts Blood Specters
2000 pts Imperial Fists
6000 pts Disciples of Fate
3500 pts Peridia Prime
2500 pts Prophets of Fate
Lizardmen 3000 points Tlaxcoatl Temple-City
Tomb Kings 1500 points Sekhra (RIP)
Pro - choice, If i wasn't pro choice i would already have been a drug addled feth up of a father to a fethed up kid. I'm quite capable of raising a child now, but back then...feth me.
Also pro prostitution
pro euthenasia
pro selling organs, hell, sell your own heart if you want. As long as the state doesn't have to supply you with extra medical services after the fact.
pro legalised drugs.
pro wargamer
pro drunk stumbler... oh not asking about those last 2 things
Manchu - "But so what? The Bible also says the flood destroyed the world. You only need an allegorical boat to tackle an allegorical flood."
Shespits "Anything i see with YOLO has half naked eleventeen year olds Girls. And of course booze and drugs and more half naked elventeen yearolds Girls. O how i wish to YOLO again!"
Rubiksnoob "Next you'll say driving a stick with a Scandinavian supermodel on your lap while ripping a bong impairs your driving. And you know what, I'M NOT GOING TO STOP, YOU FILTHY COMMUNIST"
I don't like abortion, but since I'm not likely to get pregnant it's none of my business.
Besides, outlaw abortion in America and it becomes a right of the rich. Or do you seriously think those who can afford it won't 'go on vacation' to China and get their abortions there?
Medical necessity as well as cases of rape also need to be considered as well. Do we let a woman AND fetus die because we fetishize the life of the fetus? Do we allow a rapist to continue victimizing his target continually for the rest of her life by making her raise his child? At what point does the fetus' right to live override the mothers?
Pro choice, but the father should get a say in the matter as well because not all women have abortions for selfless/reasonable reasons, some use it as another for of contraception, failing to realise that it should only be utilised in the most extreme of situations such as rape or if the mothers life was at risk.
5000pts 
6000pts 
. This is not to say that it also not the men's choice to take proper precautions, but if a woman doesn't want an unwanted pregnancy then she should tell the guy to wrap it before he can tap it...
2375
/ 
1690
WIP (1875)
1300
760
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WIP (150) 
1750 pts Blood Specters
6000 pts Disciples of Fate
Lizardmen 3000 points Tlaxcoatl Temple-City
