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 Messy0 wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
I think he was referring to force weapons, but of course the only NFW that can hurt a Wraithknight(or Wraithlord for that matter) without using up the Warp charge for HH is a Daemonhammer.

And you want to keep anything that big away from Hammers to begin with.

Thats not quite true..with the banner force weapons are auto acivated meaning you can use HH to boost your GK's S to S5 without using 2 warp charges. Banners arnt that uncommon in larger games either.

I suggest you reread your codex. IThe banner automatically passes the psychic check to activate force weapons, it still requires a warp charge in order to get to that step.

In short, no, it doesnt allow you to HH+FW in one turn, as that requires two warp charges, with or without the banner. Try again.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
How would necrons counter a wraithknight? Crons have a history of struggling against MCs afterall.

Rending

It's just the sheer point cost. The Eldar players that I have spoken to will only take a stock WK otherwise it just eats up too many points.

A friend of mine uses two of them @ 2k. One stock & one upgraded with the invuln save. Faced it twice now with my CSM & realized that they're not horribly killy, but they're really just an annoyance. They soak a lot of fire that would otherwise go into their troops. What honestly did the most damage were the warp spiders. They are an ultra-mobile unit. If you can ignore the WK & focus on their infantry you should be able cripple their army.

As has been previously said, they eat a lot points that can go to alot scarier options.

~Vryce

They're just bad for their cost. Not sure why people are saying they're destructive. Either they have the firepower of 2 wraithguard or the firepower of 3 plasma cannons.. All for the LOW price of at least 260 points.

I own pretty much every Eldar model but I'm not even considering getting a wraithknight until much later, it's just so pointless compared to other options.

Its 280 with the suncannon and 300pts if you want to add the scatter laser to twin link it.

You're almost better off just giving it the sword and rushing people, because who really is going to deal with it in combat easily on a regular basis?

The same armies that routinely kill any non-EW MC in close combat fear not a wraithlord with double wounds.

I think it speaks something to the state of the game when a T8 W6 Jump MC with two 36" S10 AP2 guns and 4 S10 CC attacks is considered bad at 240pts

Just a short while ago this would have definitely been an Apocalypse unit where bloody murder would have been screamed about the use of such a powerful unit in a normal game.

How the times have changed.


EDIT: That said, the options pricing not only are exorbitant, but make no sense. Stock however I think the thing is wonderful.

I want to run 2 if i can get them in for the next 1250. Even in 2k i will be running 2 of them. People bitch and bitch about how nids with iron arm are OP. Then a MC comes along with a better stat line than an IA tervigon, ranged weapons, and is jump inf, and now its only meh.

The real plus to the WK isnt the ability to shoot or assault, its the ability to do either depending on what army you are fighting. If playing vs guard, go smack some of his tanks around while his inf stand around dumbfounded. Yes, they both might die, but they are a "must deal with" and take a HUGE amount of firepower off the rest of your army. VS an assault army, you can avoid most anything while poking vehicles until you find a weak point to assault into. Its a threat in either situation. I still remember the main argument with the Tfex for nids was the BS3. Now that we have a BS4 AP2 version with all the other pluses to it in a codex that is already pretty good at taking survivable units, its no longer usable?

WG arent that great due to 12" range. Saying they have the firepower of 2 WG is deceptive since WK have a 36" range and dont require transport. 5 WG plus serpent is already over 250.

The options are priced fairly wonky, but the stock one is descent for the points, assuming you do not have any other long range anti-armor firepower. It would have been nice if the thing had sported the same save as the Riptide, I guess. Being jump gives it some uses as a bum rush assault unit. I personally plan on using two stock ones in my Wraith based lists.

 Vaktathi wrote:
I think it speaks something to the state of the game when a T8 W6 Jump MC with two 36" S10 AP2 guns and 4 S10 CC attacks is considered bad at 240pts

Just a short while ago this would have definitely been an Apocalypse unit where bloody murder would have been screamed about the use of such a powerful unit in a normal game.

How the times have changed.

For 20 pts more you can have 2 vendettas , which are flyers and give you 6 lascannons and an IG blob is ok for eldar armies home objectives.
The thing with normal WK is that it doesn't do anything wrightlords didn't do either . I has no utility , no buffs and for a unit that would be good just based on its stats it costs too much . If it was 180-200 for one , then he would make more sense . Right now ally units or stuff like walkers are better. He could be better as a warlord , if someone was trying to limit "slay the warlord" for his opponent.

Makumba wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
I think it speaks something to the state of the game when a T8 W6 Jump MC with two 36" S10 AP2 guns and 4 S10 CC attacks is considered bad at 240pts

Just a short while ago this would have definitely been an Apocalypse unit where bloody murder would have been screamed about the use of such a powerful unit in a normal game.

How the times have changed.

For 20 pts more you can have 2 vendettas , which are flyers and give you 6 lascannons and an IG blob is ok for eldar armies home objectives.
The thing with normal WK is that it doesn't do anything wrightlords didn't do either . I has no utility , no buffs and for a unit that would be good just based on its stats it costs too much . If it was 180-200 for one , then he would make more sense . Right now ally units or stuff like walkers are better. He could be better as a warlord , if someone was trying to limit "slay the warlord" for his opponent.

Funny thing, the Iyanden supplement allows you take a WK as a warlord, iirc.

I like it, although it is expensive and doens't do much, it takes on average, 21 Assault Cannons or 27 Missile Launchers or 54 Heavy Bolters to take one down (all at BS4). Few armies actually bring the reliable firepower to take one down.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Makumba wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
I think it speaks something to the state of the game when a T8 W6 Jump MC with two 36" S10 AP2 guns and 4 S10 CC attacks is considered bad at 240pts

Just a short while ago this would have definitely been an Apocalypse unit where bloody murder would have been screamed about the use of such a powerful unit in a normal game.

How the times have changed.

For 20 pts more you can have 2 vendettas , which are flyers and give you 6 lascannons and an IG blob is ok for eldar armies home objectives.
The thing with normal WK is that it doesn't do anything wrightlords didn't do either . I has no utility , no buffs and for a unit that would be good just based on its stats it costs too much . If it was 180-200 for one , then he would make more sense . Right now ally units or stuff like walkers are better. He could be better as a warlord , if someone was trying to limit "slay the warlord" for his opponent.

Funny thing, the Iyanden supplement allows you take a WK as a warlord, iirc.

"Spiritseer, the enemy is over there!"

"Oh? Allow me to handle it"

*Step, squash, squish squish*

"The problem has been dealt with."

 phantommaster wrote:
I like it, although it is expensive and doens't do much, it takes on average, 21 Assault Cannons or 27 Missile Launchers or 54 Heavy Bolters to take one down (all at BS4). Few armies actually bring the reliable firepower to take one down.

Well, shooting it is hardly the way to go at it. Only takes one AP3 Force Weapon to bring it down, after all.

Also, though my math may be wrong, I think it only takes 18 Krak Missiles at BS4 to kill it (classic Long-Fang-Spam set-up). 18 shots, 12 hits, 6 wounds, Wraithknight down.

this thread is full of theoryhammer, and i would bet money none of you have ever fielded one. the thing eats squads of elite soldiers for breakfast. anything T5 and below with 2+ gets melted by the cannon. the thing can jump, it's S10 I5 with A5. that is not a joke. it can kill wraithlords before they even attack. any MC short of a greater demon is going to die miserably to one in CC.

to the people reducing the entire model just down to "duh, it's 300 points for 3 plasma guns."

it's 300 points for a T8, W6, I5 monster that can get a 4+ cover from almost any building and still see the entire table. it's S10 in CC and has an S10 hammer of wrath attack.
the thing can jump, so GK will NEVER get into assault with it unless the eldar player is bad. it's got 4 S6 shots and 3 S6 blasts that are twinlinked and have 33% more range than a plasma cannon. i've had mine in 3/4 games with the new codex and i've won them all. two games against GK as pure eldar, and one game as a part of a tau-dar army against a pure eldar force. all @2000 points.

Having a force weapon able to hurt T8 however is the issue, and most of those that can are still only wounding it on 6's.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Having a force weapon able to hurt T8 however is the issue, and most of those that can are still only wounding it on 6's.

What about a dreadknight? Doesn't it have a S10 force weapon? Of course, that I5 is going to hurt it :/

How many attacks does a wk have, and how many wounds does a dk have?

DK has 4 wounds and a 5+ invuln.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Having a force weapon able to hurt T8 however is the issue, and most of those that can are still only wounding it on 6's.

What about a dreadknight? Doesn't it have a S10 force weapon? Of course, that I5 is going to hurt it :/

How many attacks does a wk have, and how many wounds does a dk have?

Isn't the DK a hard counter to MCs in both fluff and on the TT?

Yeah, especially now that many Daemons no longer have EW.

Of course if the MC has a higher initiative the DK could be in trouble.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Having a force weapon able to hurt T8 however is the issue, and most of those that can are still only wounding it on 6's.

What about a dreadknight? Doesn't it have a S10 force weapon? Of course, that I5 is going to hurt it :/

How many attacks does a wk have, and how many wounds does a dk have?

A Dreadknight is designed to fight such things specifically however, and is one of the few things with a very high S force weapon.

fundamentally, it's weird that a Force Weapon would work against a construct like that, the Wraithknight should have been a Walker, as it's a mini-titan, a vehicle with a pilot, but of course, the walker/vehicle rules as they exist in 6th are very poor and that would have led to even more issues with it.

 Zweischneid wrote:

 phantommaster wrote:
I like it, although it is expensive and doens't do much, it takes on average, 21 Assault Cannons or 27 Missile Launchers or 54 Heavy Bolters to take one down (all at BS4). Few armies actually bring the reliable firepower to take one down.

Well, shooting it is hardly the way to go at it. Only takes one AP3 Force Weapon to bring it down, after all.

Also, though my math may be wrong, I think it only takes 18 Krak Missiles at BS4 to kill it (classic Long-Fang-Spam set-up). 18 shots, 12 hits, 6 wounds, Wraithknight down.

Sorry, I was factoring in a Scattershield as well. But do you think a Jump Creature such as that with 36" and 48" guns is ever gonna put itself in a position to be charged?

All the stuff that may want to charge it is rather fast. Winged MC , dreadknights are all just as fast

Makumba wrote:
All the stuff that may want to charge it is rather fast. Winged MC , dreadknights are all just as fast

Entire army + wraith knight in their way which can shoot them down or hinder them from getting tot heir target (if their target is the wraith knight) furthermore if they do get into combat with the wraith knight it is by no means an autolose. He can hang against all of them including the dread knight especially if the dread is wounded coming in.

Dreadknight force weapons - ISnt one of them just at his strength which lets him reroll all failed hits, wound, saves? the other is the hanner which goes to strength 10 right?

oh and if you take just a sword and a teleporter your already pushing a dreadknight to 230pts without a gun.....with incinerator 260pts...what?!?! the same price as a stack wraith knight?!?!?!

why do people take 3 of those!!! its heresy!!!

No, Dreadknights come with Doomfists. Which are DCCWs(double str, AP2, force weapon)

The sword can be used in conjunction with a doomfist to be Str10, AP2, reroll to hit, wound, and armor penetration. This was reaffirmed by the FAQ.

That maybe true , but demons run what 4-5 flying MC and I doubt GK that actualy use a knight run a solo one .

There is also a range problem with elder knigts , unlike most eldar units it has above 18" weapon and I doubt that against armies with multiple MC or dreadknights , the eldar player will move his knight near the opposing army. He technicly could keep units close to his knight as a screen , but then his opponents would go after his forward army and push him out of objectives . He just costs too much for stuff he does , if it was possible to spam them and take 4-5 with possible interecept or skyfire addons , then the knights would be good. Now the warwalkers or Prisms are a much better option.

Makumba wrote:
That maybe true , but demons run what 4-5 flying MC and I doubt GK that actualy use a knight run a solo one .

There is also a range problem with elder knigts , unlike most eldar units it has above 18" weapon and I doubt that against armies with multiple MC or dreadknights , the eldar player will move his knight near the opposing army. He technicly could keep units close to his knight as a screen , but then his opponents would go after his forward army and push him out of objectives . He just costs too much for stuff he does , if it was possible to spam them and take 4-5 with possible interecept or skyfire addons , then the knights would be good. Now the warwalkers or Prisms are a much better option.

Im sorry, are you saying it is a negative to have a long range cannon?

 phantommaster wrote:


Sorry, I was factoring in a Scattershield as well. But do you think a Jump Creature such as that with 36" and 48" guns is ever gonna put itself in a position to be charged?

Perhaps not. But if you're not charging the Wraithknight yourself at some point to leverage that Str. 10 MC-profile, all you have is a very fancy platform for 2 or 3 AP2 shots a turn. Nothing really that a few Vypers or Warwalkers or even some extra-weapons on your Wave Serpents couldn't do for 1/3rd of the points.

If you play it too save with the Wraithknight, most opponents will simply ignore it.

Why if I have a ranged load out that does 4 str 6 shots them 3 str 6 ap 2 blast twin linked..

Would I want to be in melee?