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Hey all. I'm working on expanding my Ogre army and I was wondering if it was worth picking up any Gorgers? I like the idea of Ambusher, but I'm still on the fence about it. So my main questions are:

1) Do they have a use in a standard Ogre list? (keep in mind, I usually play just for fun, rarely, if ever, in tourneys)
2) Should they only be taken if I am going to take Skrag as well?
3) Any advice on the best uses, or ways to use them?

I play primarily casually, so I'm not looking to make the end-all, be-all of Ogre lists, but, like most of us, I am on a budget and don't want to waste the money if they aren't worth it.

Thanks in advance.

I like the models (though very expensive).

They have zero defenses and even with Skrag will likely never get any. Skrag has to kill 15 dudes without magic for them to get regen.

Skrag can heal himself with gutt magic, so not having his regen isn't totally killer.

Gorgers are cool and all but they cut into your Special allowance and they appear and go "HI" and stand there. If Mournfang could ambush, with their super duper armor save, you'd take them for sure. But Gorgers only have toughness and wounds. Taking one is a decent ploy or even a few and having the models on the side, it will scare the enemy into leaving defense to protect war machines and such.

If nothing else, you can help split his army I guess. Either something can handle a gorger or it can't. If it can, it's likely to be fairly powerful. Which means it's not on the front lines. So I suppose that can be a victory in a sense. It's gamesmanship.

i have tried gorgers. both as singles, and with a pair on the board.

the biggest problem with them, is they dont generally DO anything. they show up, then sit for a turn before they can charge. then when they do charge, its one model vrs whatever unit or war machine. if you dont kill the target, your probally loosing from combat res. yes your unbreakable, but you can still get overwhelmed from attacks.

the other consideration, is vrs any kind of ranged army, (the gorgers go after cannons etc) you show up. "hi!" then stand there while the other guy pivots, then blasts a cannon shell in your face...or a bolt thrower.. or whatever. = dead gorger.

for ogres, there is a TON of better units in the special slot... leadies, maneaters, mournfangs, sabertusks... all are pretty much worth 150% of their points, or more. and the maneaters can do the flank behind and hunt war machines job MUCH better, by taking pistols, poison, and scouts. sabertusks can redirect or draw attention better, and the MFC are generally better at smacking a big unit, and actually winning the fight.

essentially, you have a 4 wound model, with only 4 attacks, at below average WS, and no save to really speak of. plenty of better things to spend the points on. and for close to 100 each... thats more core choice, (2-3 models) almost a full 4 man unit of leadies, 4 sabertusks, and a good start to a maneater squad.

unfortunitly gorgers are a bit of a fail in this army book. unless of course, you take a TON of them, and skragg to buff them. but then your building a list around that tatic. for general use, pass on the gorger.

Gorgers do 1 job very well.
They threaten to charge from behind.
So if you flee from that block of 8-12 iron guts, this guy in the back will charge you're fleeing unit, and bounce them back at the on coming ogres.
That's it. They just prevent fleeing by making it impossible to get away.
In a list that uses good sized beat sticks, it isn't bad having a few show up.

It's a pretty specialized role.

I haven't run the Skragg list, but I did see him wrack up the kills pretty quick. He starts with 6 attacks, + impact hits and stomp. 5 kills gives him another attack. With 7 kills and stomp it doesn't take long to get to 15 kills.

If you run Skragg, I'd run butcher with beast magic. Savage Horrors (+3S/+3A) would make him a blender. Base T6 means that you've got a really tough guy, with 3 spells that can boost toughness (Tooth Cracker, Pan's Pelt and Wild Form).
IIRC, Skragg lets you run Gorgers as a single unit of 2. If that's right, it's pretty decent. 10 S5 killing blow attacks (jumps to 12attacks pretty quick), and if tooth cracker gets bubbled, it's a lot of T6 guys.

-Matt

I don't know if it's better to have 1 or 2 guys. Gorgers also are there to kill. And they are expensive. If they have a bunch of ranged attackers (or casters), they could conceivably drop 2 gorgers in a unit. But either way, they will waste one turn not shooting at your main forces cuz they're afraid of a rear charge or you taking out their war machines or whatever. Likewise, if a cannon turns around and shoots your ONE gorger in the face (and likely not even killing it), that's one shot it's not blasting at a line of ogres or mournfangs or something and potentially taking out multiples of them and forcing a LoS on your heroes.

I think the idea of a Skragg list sounds intriguing. Does he have to get the kills in close combat? or is it kills he gets in general? like though magic and the like?

I'm not sure what else would go in that list though. A block or 2 of ironguts, a couple sabretusks, and I'm not sure what else you would need exactly. Could be fun to play though, if not the most competitive list out there.

Skragg has to kill in close combat. If you do face multi-wound infantry, warbeasts or cav, you could get the count up faster with his killing blow. So if you happen to face screamers, flamers or flesh hounds, you might get a little lucky.

-Matt

Skrag wants to be facing small infantry. If he kills 15 goblins or 15 giants it's the same effect.

DukeRustfield wrote:
Skrag wants to be facing small infantry. If he kills 15 goblins or 15 giants it's the same effect.

IIRC, it's wounds not kills. 2 and a half giants are enough.
But if you're facing goblins, you don't really need regen on the gorgers, the T5 is enough.

-Matt

Personally i hate gorgers i find them to be pretty useless except at turning up and getting shot the face.

I also hate skragg as i think he is to many points and i find his ability to boost gorgers useless since i dont take them.

I personally would go for an ironblaster to kill warmachines. It IS a lot of points but it can get them from turn 1 and your foes are unlikly to target it(until it blows up one of their cannons). Also they can actually hurt units and monsters unlike the gorger.

Taking Iron Blasters doesn't impede your ability to take Iron Blasters.
As was discussed earlier, you don't use gorgers to hunt warmachines (sabre tusks do that), you use them to help get your blocks into combat.

-Matt

HawaiiMatt wrote:

IIRC, it's wounds not kills. 2 and a half giants are enough.
But if you're facing goblins, you don't really need regen on the gorgers, the T5 is enough.
-Matt

It's kills. Epidemius is wounds. 2 giants is 2+ and he never ever wants to face them. You want to fight goblins or small infantry to GET the bonuses. Most goblin armies have other stuff besides goblins. And why would you ever give up 4+ save on top of your toughness? It's certainly not "good enough". But I wouldn't hold my breath about getting regen on gorgers, you want regen on Skrag cuz he's nekkid. Then you can play a little more conservatively.

Yes, you do use gorgers to hunt war machines. Or whatever else is back there. Sabertusks move 8 swiftstride, but they can still be blocked, shot, and they are far more useful as redirectors. And if the enemy war machine is also an ironblaster or daemon gocart or that beastmen stonethrower or whatever, the sabertusks are going to need a much larger unit or get their furry asses kicked.

DukeRustfield wrote:

Yes, you do use gorgers to hunt war machines. Or whatever else is back there. Sabertusks move 8 swiftstride, but they can still be blocked, shot, and they are far more useful as redirectors. And if the enemy war machine is also an ironblaster or daemon gocart or that beastmen stonethrower or whatever, the sabertusks are going to need a much larger unit or get their furry asses kicked.

Gorgers are a turn 3 charge at best for warmachines, with 33% of the time it being a turn 4 or later charge. It isn't that they can't do it, it's that by the time they show up, the warmachines have already done decent damage, and core ogres will be able to have closed in on the machines by foot, or be locked safely in combat.

Sabre Cats make for a nice quick, cheap way to hit machines turn 2. Or at least force the opponent deal with them. To me, the Sabretusks are a no-brainer. I'm going to take units 3 every game.

I agree. But the statement was gorgers don't hunt war machines. I mean they aren't mutually-exclusive. A war machine would piss itself if a gorger popped out behind it.

As for a turn 2 vs. 3 charge, the sabertusks may never get to charge depending on what is in between and where the war machines are. But almost nothing is going to be blocking from the rear. If they are, the gorgers likely did their job even before deployment.

Gorgers are no game changer.
They are great for hunting down warmachines, lone characters and sometimes, small skirmishing units.

They wont kill units or huge monsters, but they do cause a big threat.

I used to run 2 as disruption, and they draw a ton of fire from the rest of your army.
If they get into combat, then great, if not, they have caused a bit of chaos and disrupted a few units.


Ive tried the gorger army with skrag and its really nothing to write home about.
Looks great on a table, but they really dont do anything special.
And skrag really isnt that quick at building the tally up in combat.

1: Your looking at turn 3 combat unless your facing cav or they rush you, or they have a flying unit.

2: His attacks really dont burn through the kills.
Your looking at hitting and wounding then killing with all attacks for 3 turns ish to get a full tally.
Now, do the maths on how many turns its all adding up to, you wont use that tally much, if atall.

They are fun to use, but your far better with mournfangs for quick, hard hitting, or sabers for disruption and hunting.

If you take Skragg, stick him in with ironguts/maneates with the movement banner. 14" march, then 7+ 2D6" charge.

You'll cover 28" on average by your 2nd turn, hitting an enemy 4" deep in his deployment zone.

Or, if you really want to get tricky...
BSB (in 2nd rank) with rampager's banner and the unit packing the +1 movement. Now you can re-roll charge dice.
Gives you a ~30% chance of rolling a 10 or more on the charge.
It gives you a really good shot at getting into combat turn 2, and a decent shot at some extra impact hits.

-Matt

I think the Skragg army sounds fun. Sure, it probably won't win you a lot of games, but it could be really fun to play, just to see an opponents reaction to all the silliness.

The other thing with Skragg,
He's 140 points more than a naked level 4 slaughter master, but comes with:
+1 WS, +1, Strength, +1 Toughness, +2 attacks, and killing blow.

As he makes kills, he gains:
1) Regneration.
5) +1 Attack
10) Hatred
15) Unbreakable.

He's a level 4, who's also a beat stick. That's not bad for 450 points. He's also going to take the ogre lore and be healing himself. For his stats and gear, I think he's worth the cost.

Maybe try running him with just a single gorger, and focus on what he does, not on the gorgers.

-Matt

450pts is alot to spend on a single character, even for ogres. i can see how he may be better then a build your own SM, but my list is already pretty tight, and i would have to loose something else with more killing power to make room for him. his points cost alone makes him a character you have to build around, not just slot in. that, and his awkward base size makes fitting him into a unit a bit ,more of a challange. that said, i do agree he could be one of the more fun and playable ogre SC... certainly more so then greasus...

 DarthSpader wrote:
certainly more so then greasus...

And looks way better on the table.

I've not dealt with it before, but can't you just put him in a unit of ironguts with them flanking him on either side? He has a rule or something that allows him to do that right? I don't have my books in front of me, but I thought he had something that allowed him to go in a unit he wouldn't normally be able to.

If his base "fits" (ie if it's a round multiple of the other guys bases), you can them place him inside the unit
Usually wizards go on the corner to limit the dangers of miscasts anyway

HawaiiMatt wrote:
The other thing with Skragg,
He's 140 points more than a naked level 4 slaughter master, but comes with:
+1 WS, +1, Strength, +1 Toughness, +2 attacks, and killing blow.

As he makes kills, he gains:
1) Regneration.
5) +1 Attack
10) Hatred
15) Unbreakable.

He's a level 4, who's also a beat stick. That's not bad for 450 points. He's also going to take the ogre lore and be healing himself. For his stats and gear, I think he's worth the cost.

Maybe try running him with just a single gorger, and focus on what he does, not on the gorgers.

-Matt

For giggles, I've wanted to field an Ogre army that looks like:

Skragg

Big block of core ogres to protect Skragg

Fill up points with maximum allowable Gorgers.

If I remember correctly, Skragg only has to do a relatively small number of wounds/kills to have all of the Gorgers come on the board without rolling the following turn. I think I did the math a while back, and it's like 17 Gorgers or something.

Probably not very effective, but would be fun.

If you were playing a 3k point army, and took no other special units, yes. 16 actually. Could be very silly.