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First problem: Sex is risky for the Eldar, if they get carried away it can cause trouble.

Second problem: Eldar aren't very fertile; the chances of a female Eldar getting pregnant off one encounter are pretty low.

Third problem: The aforementioned gestation period.

Fourth problem: All these humans and Tau and Tyranids breeding like rabbits and showing up and eating people.

 Psienesis wrote:
Poor people tend to have more children because sex is the cheapest form of entertainment between two people. There's nothing more to it. Most of the countries that evidence this phenomenon have no social welfare programs.

It should also bear noting that, in much of the Third World, where poverty *and* birth-rates are high, the Catholic Church maintains a dominant presence, and Catholicism bans the use of birth-control.

There isn't any definitive proof that poor = higher sexual activity. (This has been a recent topic on my radio talk shows)

Poverty is a matter of perspective. 3rd world people do not consider themselves poor because they don't have a word for it. (Also recently discussed on BBC and PRX)

Wealth, like time, only applies to you and where you are.

Once, perhaps, but the world's now a global village. Television exists in almost every country on the planet. The people there might not have known they were poor until we started selling them Zenith TVs to tell them they were.

I didnt say all poverty stricken cultures do that, but there is a large cultural group that in general does in fact equate large amounts of children(regardless of the ability to take care of them) to manlyness. The Catholic church affects some poor cultures in this way, and you forget, the Islamic religion encourages large families too and they are even more prevalent in non-Western poor cultures. They might have actually overtaken the Catholics on sheer numbers in the last year or two.

On subject though, you do not have any of these religious or being manly, or welfare forces in the eldar. They are a decadent culture despite the threat of Slaanesh, they would rather enjoy bouncing from path to path to path rather than settling down for a very large period of time to have and raise children. There is a book by John Ringo "There Will Be Dragons" that describes a more fanciful but very similar mindset that is slowly settling in even with our culture. "I dont have time for kids, its all about me."

In order to just maintain population, a couple must have 2.2 or 2.3 children on average(Might be 2.5, been awhile). In most modern societies, what is it? Europe is in trouble, if I remember right, I think only one country there was even breaking the 2s. The US is in the same spot. Russia is so low they have National Sex Day to encourage couples to have kids. Immigration is a mitigatng factor but not a good one if you wish to maintain your own culture. In addition even the more traditionally high fertility countries last I looked appeared to have a minor drop, likely as education and wealth improve. The Eldar do not have immigration.

Even I am part of the problem(oddly enough so are most gamers I know), my wife and I only plan for one kid. None of my gamer friends have more than one kid. My shooting buddy, has one kid. My SCA friends are even worse, either one or no kids and no plans for more. For the eldar, thats a way of life.

Col. Dash wrote:
I didnt say all poverty stricken cultures do that, but there is a large cultural group that in general does in fact equate large amounts of children(regardless of the ability to take care of them) to manlyness. The Catholic church affects some poor cultures in this way, and you forget, the Islamic religion encourages large families too and they are even more prevalent in non-Western poor cultures. They might have actually overtaken the Catholics on sheer numbers in the last year or two.

On subject though, you do not have any of these religious or being manly, or welfare forces in the eldar. They are a decadent culture despite the threat of Slaanesh, they would rather enjoy bouncing from path to path to path rather than settling down for a very large period of time to have and raise children. There is a book by John Ringo "There Will Be Dragons" that describes a more fanciful but very similar mindset that is slowly settling in even with our culture. "I dont have time for kids, its all about me."

In order to just maintain population, a couple must have 2.2 or 2.3 children on average(Might be 2.5, been awhile). In most modern societies, what is it? Europe is in trouble, if I remember right, I think only one country there was even breaking the 2s. The US is in the same spot. Russia is so low they have National Sex Day to encourage couples to have kids. Immigration is a mitigatng factor but not a good one if you wish to maintain your own culture. In addition even the more traditionally high fertility countries last I looked appeared to have a minor drop, likely as education and wealth improve. The Eldar do not have immigration.

Even I am part of the problem(oddly enough so are most gamers I know), my wife and I only plan for one kid. None of my gamer friends have more than one kid. My shooting buddy, has one kid. My SCA friends are even worse, either one or no kids and no plans for more. For the eldar, thats a way of life.

Exactly, there are some countries which are in dire need of baby making despite the world's population growth. Japan has a 1.4 fertility rate! That's a decreasing population curve. Google helped me out with a list of countries with declining birth rates: Belarus, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Cook Islands, Croatia, Cuba, Czech Republic, Estonia, Georgia, Germany, Guyana, Hungary, Japan, Latvia, Lithuania, Maldives, Micronesia, Moldova, Montenegro, Poland, Puerto Rico, Romania, Russia, St. Vincent and the Grenadines, Serbia, Slovenia, South Africa, Trinidad and Tobago, and Ukraine.

I, too, am not going to contribute to the world's population. My gf and I are neither getting married nor having children and I have had a vasectomy to ensure the latter part remains true. If the Eldar are like me, they see little reason to bring new life into a world that is increasingly difficult to live in (though my reasons are a bit more numerous than that alone, it is a primary concern of mine).

 AnomanderRake wrote:
First problem: Sex is risky for the Eldar, if they get carried away it can cause trouble.

Second problem: Eldar aren't very fertile; the chances of a female Eldar getting pregnant off one encounter are pretty low.

Third problem: The aforementioned gestation period.

Fourth problem: All these humans and Tau and Tyranids breeding like rabbits and showing up and eating people.

And they need a soulstone for each new baby, you can only get them on Crone worlds which aren't exactly accessible.

From what I understand, the more developed countries like Germany reach a certain point before their population growth rates decline, last I checked Germany had something like a -0.1% growth a few years ago. It obviously has something to do with available birth control and education of the populace, add on to that, some people are aware of the negative effects of overpopulation.

Contrast the example of Germany with a poor, underdeveloped country like those in Africa, where you have counter-productive agencies like the Catholic Church discouraging sexual healthcare, gender equality and education, you'll notice a much higher birth rate, even if people there are starving.

This somehow relates to the Eldar's rate of birth. It's already been said in here, but the Eldar certainly do put a lot of value in their people.

I was unaware that the Dark Eldar cloned their people, to me that seems like the most ideal way to go. One can only hope the Eldar don't go crazy with it and make a Chaos god devoted to artificial insemination and test tubes.

 Psienesis wrote:
Once, perhaps, but the world's now a global village. Television exists in almost every country on the planet. The people there might not have known they were poor until we started selling them Zenith TVs to tell them they were.

Most of those TV in 3rd world nations are being stripped for metals. Not for watching Jersey Shore.

The point I was making is that a "poor" person may not have money but they could be living in a tiny village with very little outside contact.

They may have a large family, pets, livestock, food in abundance and a general good feeling on life. They might consider themselves "rich" because they don't care about money.

What is wealth? Heath? Family? Control over your own destiny? Pieces of paper with numbers on them? Owning lots of appliances?

As I said. Wealth, like time, only applies to you and where you are.

 DeffDred wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
Once, perhaps, but the world's now a global village. Television exists in almost every country on the planet. The people there might not have known they were poor until we started selling them Zenith TVs to tell them they were.

Most of those TV in 3rd world nations are being stripped for metals. Not for watching Jersey Shore.

As someone who lives in a third world nation, I'm doubly offended. First for insisting that we don't watch TV, secondly for insinuating that we have such poor taste that we'd watch Jersey Shore.

 Kain wrote:

 DeffDred wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
Once, perhaps, but the world's now a global village. Television exists in almost every country on the planet. The people there might not have known they were poor until we started selling them Zenith TVs to tell them they were.

Most of those TV in 3rd world nations are being stripped for metals. Not for watching Jersey Shore.

As someone who lives in a third world nation, I'm doubly offended. First for insisting that we don't watch TV, secondly for insinuating that we have such poor taste that we'd watch Jersey Shore.

South Africa isn't a 3rd world nation. It was considered a First World country during the Cold War and is considered a 1st or 2nd world country now.

I did some further research on this. Apparently 1rst, 2nd and 3rd world mean different things for different reasons.

The basic categories being social, political, and economic. Though it seems that location can be a factor as well.

As an example the United States is a first world country but has it's own economic problems and poverty. Thus it's technically not 1st world... in fact no country really is. Except maybe Switzerland.

Edit: My bad The Arab Emirates are definitely 1st world.

 DeffDred wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 DeffDred wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
Once, perhaps, but the world's now a global village. Television exists in almost every country on the planet. The people there might not have known they were poor until we started selling them Zenith TVs to tell them they were.

Most of those TV in 3rd world nations are being stripped for metals. Not for watching Jersey Shore.

As someone who lives in a third world nation, I'm doubly offended. First for insisting that we don't watch TV, secondly for insinuating that we have such poor taste that we'd watch Jersey Shore.

South Africa isn't a 3rd world nation. It was considered a First World country during the Cold War and is considered a 1st or 2nd world country now.

I did some further research on this. Apparently 1rst, 2nd and 3rd world mean different things for different reasons.

The basic categories being social, political, and economic. Though it seems that location can be a factor as well.

As an example the United States is a first world country but has it's own economic problems and poverty. Thus it's technically not 1st world... in fact no country really is. Except maybe Switzerland.

In the sense of being a developing country, South Africa still has a massive way to go before it can ever be considered with Western Europe and Canada/America.

In the old terminology that meant Capitalist/Communist/Unaligned, then yes SA is a first world country.

While the Jersey Shore comment made me chuckle--and the SA analysis is pretty interesting (and I agree with your definition)--it's probably a bit off topic here.

I think people are forgetting most 3rd world countries rely on every member of the family to be working therefore more children equals more hands on the farm are in the workshop Etc.This isn't really something that can be blamed on the catholic church seeing as the catholic church still has quite a lot of influence in a number of countries that wouldn't be considered "third world " .

I thinking we should get back to eldar baby-making.

Eldar population has actually grown from immediate post-fall numbers.

Whilst it seems like the eldar population is limited by the supply of Soul stones - It appears that Exodites are not limited in the same way.

Also it now appears, at least in the BL novels, that you can move from Eldar to Dark Eldar or reverse (and likely same with Exodites) without issue with regards to protection from Slaanesh?

 Mr Morden wrote:

Also it now appears, at least in the BL novels, that you can move from Eldar to Dark Eldar or reverse (and likely same with Exodites) without issue with regards to protection from Slaanesh?

Well, the main difference between the three is mostly just the life style (and to a lesser degree, the harlequins, though their souls belong to the laughing god so presumably you can't go back once you become one). Far as I know, the only real genetic difference is that Dark Eldars' psychic powers atrophied from a lack of use. (that said, I imagine if not outright stated that the lifestyles themselves do altar the appearance a little, but many beings still can't tell the difference between an Eldar and a Dark Eldar)

Heck, there's even an in-between "faction" in the form of Eldar Corsairs.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Whilst it seems like the eldar population is limited by the supply of Soul stones - It appears that Exodites are not limited in the same way.

Also it now appears, at least in the BL novels, that you can move from Eldar to Dark Eldar or reverse (and likely same with Exodites) without issue with regards to protection from Slaanesh?

Exodites use soul stones as well.

Hate to necro a thread but I didn't want to make a new one, plus I wanted to contribute some thoughts and considerations into the subject that tries to be in line with how the Eldar are portrayed in the lore.

- Reading the codexes, Craftworld Eldar live a very strict and regimented life that foregoes practices they might associated with the decadent ways of pre-Fall Eldar civilization; if supposedly the process of creating new Eldar is in fact practised, however it is done, it would likely have been restricted by societal rules as well.

- In times of war and dire need to survive, as the Craftowlrd and the entire Warhammer universe is depicted, there would be little available time to procreate, especially if it's done in the typical human-like manner of copulation between male and female- "conjugals" are hard when one or both parties are invovled in activities that demand their full attention.

-If Eldar procreate like humans- female gets pregnant by male- then that means one of two individuals cannot be used to fight and later on to perform many societal functions. This of course may be problematic if the Eldar in question are not warriors but rather, say, craftsman and the like that would have the luxury of being more likely to stay in the Craftworld.

- Eldar that are not warriors would be expected to maintain militia posture, which may also limit procreation.Even if female Eldar don't get pregnant, someone needs to take care of the younglings, it takes a village, and all that.

-I once read somewhere that Eldar can change sexes, if I remember correctly it has something to do with how they manage themselves in the paths they take rather than some quirky sex-change operation. I don't remember where I read that, and I also don't think it was very explicit.

-A bit on the above, Eldar don't seem to hold strong views towards gender and gender roles, given that females are common portrayals of many fighting Eldar, re Howling Banshees and Relic's Dawn of War Farseer characters. I Eldar procreation requires a male and a female, then this requires a strong view of what are clearly male and female biological roles, something that may seem contradictory to many Craftworld Eldar's views (everyone needs to pitch in, men or women, etc.)

-Like what some others have stated, some Craftworld Eldar might associate procreation as hedonistic and a "sin", and as responsible community members either have strict views toward the act, or prohibit it entirely, voluntary or some form of communal law.

-Extraneous involuntary causes could be factored into the lore as well, like walking down the Path makes the Eldar so inured and obsessed with the respective career that procreation is no longer important for them. Biological causes could be made up as well, like the training alters the hormones and whatever that makes them lose a sex drive, if they had any to begin with.

-If they did have babies they'd likely be guarded and hidden very well, since they are the future of their respective Craftworlds. Kind of hard with Slaanesh, and all the other races in the galaxy on your heels.

-As another member stated, new Eldar meant new souls, which meant new Spirit Stones, which means not only do they need to get more from Crone Worlds, but also that current Eldar might want to have a spare few stones on hand in case, which means a competition of resources to raise new Eldar and sustaining living ones. That's on top of rate of equipment manufacture and maintenance, production and usage of consumables, etc. This all factors into the Craftworld's survival: too many kids means not enough warriors, and too many mouths to feed and equip, and so on. Even things like living space might be an issue for Craftworlds.

The Craftworld Eldar birthrate is low because the only way for new Eldar to be born they must be given a spirit stone. Without it they're daemon food. However the only way to acquire these stones is to embark on a suicide mission into the Eye of Terror to a daemon world to collect them.

So obviously they're in short supply and there's presumably a waiting list of Eldar pairs wishing to reproduce. The only thing stopping them from fething like catholic rabbits is the looming threat of Slaanesh.

For most of modern Earth, sex is not simply entertainment. That's an extremely first-world view. For most of the world, with no social welfare programs, family takes care of family. To ensure enough progeny survive to adulthood to take care of Mom and Dad families need to be quite large. Considering that in most of the world males are the sole breadwinners (women are maintaining households and the brood of children), parents are specifically concerned with having enough sons.

Of course, most of the world works off an extended family model, not the western 'nuclear' family. Not only parents but grandparents, uncles, aunts, nephews, nieces, the developmentally challenged and other assorted dependents need to be supported as well. In some societies status is directly dependent on those assorted non-family dependents, who may or may not be contributing to the wealth of the extended family.

So no, it's absolutely not just a matter of sex as cheap entertainment. It comes down to economics, like so much of life.

My two cents.

The latest Codex: Eldar is a step in the right direction for resolving their population issues.

After all, with every Eldar and her mother getting the D, it's really only a matter of time.

 insaniak wrote:

Their Galaxy-spanning empire was at a time when there wasn't a lot of strong competition, so they wouldn't have had the same level of attrition they face in the 41st millenium where, apparently, there is only war.

The eldar had their own "men of iron" who fought their wars for them and were apparently far superior to the human versions because:
1. They never turned on their master
2. The humans, despite numerical superiority, never conquered the eldar.

Most of them were destroyed when slanesh was born. Why the eldar dont build more is a curious question.

 Psienesis wrote:
The latest Codex: Eldar is a step in the right direction for resolving their population issues.

After all, with every Eldar and her mother getting the D, it's really only a matter of time.

Okay I admit, I laughed.

 Exergy wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

Their Galaxy-spanning empire was at a time when there wasn't a lot of strong competition, so they wouldn't have had the same level of attrition they face in the 41st millenium where, apparently, there is only war.

The eldar had their own "men of iron" who fought their wars for them and were apparently far superior to the human versions because:
1. They never turned on their master
2. The humans, despite numerical superiority, never conquered the eldar.

Most of them were destroyed when slanesh was born. Why the eldar dont build more is a curious question.

I believe that they require soul stones which as you mentioned are extremely reliable and they probably would be given to process the society first.