Sesame Street Puppet who has a Dad in Jail

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**sourclams**

Jihadin wrote:
Depends on the daughter view....she got molested by an adult male. Her father is an adult male that just killed another Adult Male. Something in back of my mind though telling me the daughter was there an saw it go down. So we have one adult male who was a child molester (woot dead) but now a father that's a killer. Some people perception would consider it murder

So convicts are good parents and Dads killing child molesters in the process of molesting their child are murderers.

100% glad I don't live anywhere near your worldview.

My daughter expects me to kill anything that hurts her. Young children are not the least bit nuanced.

**Jihadin**

I rather knee cap them. I've enough on my plate of killing. Killing them is a cop out for them. Knee capping them still going to put the fear in them when they hit general population in prison

**daedalus**

sourclams wrote:
Jihadin wrote:
Depends on the daughter view....she got molested by an adult male. Her father is an adult male that just killed another Adult Male. Something in back of my mind though telling me the daughter was there an saw it go down. So we have one adult male who was a child molester (woot dead) but now a father that's a killer. Some people perception would consider it murder

So convicts are good parents and Dads killing child molesters in the process of molesting their child are murderers.

Well, that depends, did these parents get convicted because they followed the hypothetical example from earlier, except lived somewhere other than Small Town, TX, and as a result got the book thrown at them for defending their child?

I think I still want to see the Sesame Street puppet added for "Alienated upper-middle class kid who's sees his dual-income goal-orientated parents approximately 20 hours a month with about half of those hours involving signs of one or more half-covered-up affairs."

**Frazzled**

sourclams wrote:
Jihadin wrote:
Depends on the daughter view....she got molested by an adult male. Her father is an adult male that just killed another Adult Male. Something in back of my mind though telling me the daughter was there an saw it go down. So we have one adult male who was a child molester (woot dead) but now a father that's a killer. Some people perception would consider it murder

So convicts are good parents and Dads killing child molesters in the process of molesting their child are murderers.

100% glad I don't live anywhere near your worldview.

My daughter expects me to kill anything that hurts her. Young children are not the least bit nuanced.

My daughter expects me to duck and get out of the way. Her skills with a 9mm are excellent.

**daedalus**

Frazzled wrote:

My daughter expects me to duck and get out of the way. Her skills with a 9mm are excellent.

Good parents have kids who know they can always depend upon them for help with their insurmountable problems, while great parents have kids who don't need to.

**JWhex**

If you are guilty of the crimes that resulted in a prison sentence you probably are not a very good parent. However, you may not be worse of a parent than many that have not been convicted of a crime.

Not everyone in prison is "bad" some have just made stupid choices, like one of my students that decided to supplement his income by growing pot in his basement. In every other way he was very decent in his behavior but he succumbed to the lure of easy money.

Once as a graduate student I taught a continuing education class at a maximum security prison (Menard, Illinois). I will say that most of the students were pretty much world class screw ups because you had to be actually serving at least 5 years to land there. This means you probably murdered someone or had multiple felonies. While the cons were polite to me as their teacher I sure would not want them raising children. Not a few of them were pretty damn scary individuals and not exactly remorseful.

**feeder**

If you are conflating breaking the law and bad parenting, you are incorrect. One can break the law, go to jail, and still be a good parent.

Hopefully "Alex" will go some ways towards reinforcing this fact.

**hotsauceman1**

I disagree, you did something, that conflicted with your childs needs, that lnaded you in jail.
And how can you be a good parent if y'know, not there.
Like my cousins baby-daddy, he not only committed a crime, but he got arrested with his 3 year old son in the carm nearly traumatizing him.

**Ahtman**

hotsauceman1 wrote:
I disagree, you did something, that conflicted with your childs needs, that lnaded you in jail.

Considering the sheer amount or ways and reasons a person can land in jail, it is possible to land in jail because of something regarding your child's needs. There is no singular incident that all people in jail fall into and can be described so easily.

**hotsauceman1**

IT is actually very hard to get into jail, yuo have to do some serious gak to get to jail, like that assault mentioned earlier? That would likely just get you parole over here

**Ahtman**

hotsauceman1 wrote:
IT is actually very hard to get into jail

How naive.

**daedalus**

hotsauceman1 wrote:
IT is actually very hard to get into jail, yuo have to do some serious gak to get to jail, like that assault mentioned earlier? That would likely just get you parole over here

You keep saying this. I'm not sure where you got this idea.

**feeder**

hotsauceman1 wrote:
I disagree, you did something, that conflicted with your childs needs, that lnaded you in jail.
And how can you be a good parent if y'know, not there.

So you are of the opinion that absent parent = bad parent? Parent chooses to do things that put them in jail, bad parent. Parent chooses career that takes them away for long periods, bad parent?

Are you a parent?

**hotsauceman1**

daedalus wrote:
hotsauceman1 wrote:
IT is actually very hard to get into jail, yuo have to do some serious gak to get to jail, like that assault mentioned earlier? That would likely just get you parole over here

You keep saying this. I'm not sure where you got this idea.

From my Criminiology Proff, who is a cop and has first hand experience in the system

**daedalus**

hotsauceman1 wrote:

From my Criminiology Proff, who is a cop and has first hand experience in the system

I see. What state/district do you live in?

**hotsauceman1**

feeder wrote:
hotsauceman1 wrote:
I disagree, you did something, that conflicted with your childs needs, that lnaded you in jail.
And how can you be a good parent if y'know, not there.

So you are of the opinion that absent parent = bad parent? Parent chooses to do things that put them in jail, bad parent. Parent chooses career that takes them away for long periods, bad parent?

Are you a parent?

I am not a parent, no, but I do help with my cousins kids, who i see first hand how a parent in jail affects them, the second oldest always cries when he has to leave visiting his father. It isnt like the military, or a job that takes you away, in the former you are doing a noble thing in helping your country, while securing your families future, the former you are providing for your family, and very few jobs take you away for 5-10 years where you can only visit between glass.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

daedalus wrote:
hotsauceman1 wrote:

From my Criminiology Proff, who is a cop and has first hand experience in the system

I see. What state/district do you live in?

Good old Cali, I live in the Bay area(San fran area)

**daedalus**

hotsauceman1 wrote:

Good old Cali, I live in the Bay area(San fran area)

Gotcha.

The problem is, and I'm no expert on the matter, but we seem to have a difference of opinion on this. See, I read the news, and I see stories about 14 year olds who are threatened with a year of jail time for daring to talk back to a police officer (granted, not a wise idea, but, I mean, really?) and geniuses from MIT who kill themselves to avoid the lengthy prison sentence they're being served up for breaking a EULA on a online service. While those are high profile situations, I can't help but wonder how many there are that don't make the news just like that.

While my world view is most certainly rooted in anti-establishment thought and news, perhaps even bordering on socio-anarchic at times, I'm willing to realize that my perspective is not entirely impartial. At the same time, could you suppose there exists the possibility of your professor being in particular biased, due to being on his side of the shield?

Wow. Quoting got surreal for some reason.

**hotsauceman1**

I agree, as is mine biased because i see my cousin(Who is practically my sis) got her life nearly ruined by a guy in jail

**daedalus**

hotsauceman1 wrote:
I agree, as is mine biased because i see my cousin(Who is practically my sis) got her life nearly ruined by a guy in jail

That's fair. I've never personally known anyone who's gone to jail for anything beyond what was supposedly trumped up drug charges, so I've never been personally affected by such a thing.

I need to go to bed. As discussion seems possible, I would like to continue the discussion tomorrow.

**Ahtman**

hotsauceman1 wrote:
who is a cop and has first hand experience in the system

And I know criminal attorneys who are also professors and have first hand experience in the system that will tell you otherwise.

**poppa G**

I believe the puppeteer for elmo was accused of child molestation.

**Ahtman**

poppa G wrote:
I believe the puppeteer for elmo was accused of child molestation.

In November 2012, 23-year-old Sheldon Stephens alleged that he had been in a sexual relationship with Clash which began when Stephens was 16. Sesame Workshop had initially been presented with the allegation in June, and its investigation found the allegation to be unsubstantiated. Clash acknowledged that he had been in a relationship with the accuser; however, he characterized the relationship as being between consenting adults.[44] Stephens later recanted his accusation, but two weeks later, Cecil Singleton and two additional unnamed men made similar accusations and lawsuits were filed against Clash.[46]

Clash resigned from Sesame Workshop on November 20, 2012, and released a statement saying, "Personal matters have diverted attention away from the important work 'Sesame Street' is doing and I cannot allow it to go on any longer. I am deeply sorry to be leaving and am looking forward to resolving these personal matters privately."[46] Sesame Workshop also released a statement: "Unfortunately, the controversy surrounding Kevin's personal life has become a distraction that none of us want, and he has concluded that he can no longer be effective in his job and has resigned from 'Sesame Street.'"[46] They stated that other puppeteers had been trained to serve as Clash's understudy and would take over his roles on the show

**sebster**

Ahtman wrote:
hotsauceman1 wrote:
who is a cop and has first hand experience in the system

And I know criminal attorneys who are also professors and have first hand experience in the system that will tell you otherwise.

Is it fair to say that in some places, people might be surprised how much you have to feth up before landing in jail, while in other situations people might be surprised how seriously the will come down on a fairly minor offence? That it depends on the specifics of the crime, the personal circumstances of the law breaker (parents and people who are otherwise productive members of society are likely to be given a suspended sentence), and the judge and jurisdiction the law breaker finds himself in?

I mean, I haven't read anything substantial on the issue, just a lot of people's experiences over the years, and I've found that well, the law is just another great big bureaucracy with all sorts of end results that no-one really intended, and no great consistency from place to place, or time to time.

**Frazzled**

Ahtman wrote:
hotsauceman1 wrote:
I disagree, you did something, that conflicted with your childs needs, that lnaded you in jail.

Considering the sheer amount or ways and reasons a person can land in jail, it is possible to land in jail because of something regarding your child's needs. There is no singular incident that all people in jail fall into and can be described so easily.

If you're selling drugs
If you're a cartel member
a thief
a murder
sorry who exactly goes to prison for selling weed again?

**Ahtman**

Frazzled wrote:
sorry who exactly goes to prison for selling weed again?

Why no one, obliviously.

**Frazzled**

Ahtman wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
sorry who exactly goes to prison for selling weed again?

Why no one, obliviously.

Here's the part I liked:

The two women were arrested for drug distribution and because Spottedcrow's children were in the home, an additional charge of possession of a dangerous substance in the presence of a minor was added.

oh and this part is nice. Nothing like involving your kids in the drug trade.

Starr handled the transaction and asked her 9-year-old grandson — Spottedcrow's son — for some dollar bills to make change for the $11 sale.

Mmm... looks like they were selling weed form the house you live at with your kids to be a pargon of good parenting. Now they are in jail. Thanks for supporting my argument Ahtman!

**Ahtman**

Frazzled wrote:
Thanks for supporting my argument Ahtman!

That people can be sentenced and spend time in jail for selling that sweet chiba? You're welcome. You never said that they wouldn't also have other charges against them, just that it doesn't happen, and I gave four examples where it does.

The 'no one goes to jail for selling weed' argument has nothing to do with your ridiculous 'everyone in jail is a terrible no good bad parent'. The refutation of that was never that there are no bad parents in prison, but that it is to broad a statement to merit taking seriously, as there are all sorts of reason why good people end up in jail sometimes. Most will be pretty gakky people, but to say they all are is just facetious. Since you have trouble seperating them I will help.

"No one goes to jail for selling weed"
- examples of people going to jail for selling weed given. Argument refuted

"All people in prison are bad parents"
- examples of why people may end up in prison and not be bad parents given. Argument refuted
- reasons given for why all people in jail are bad parents also shown to be fallacious and applicable to many people that aren't in jail (heavy workload, career military). Underlying assumption refuted.

**hotsauceman1**

I explained why heavy workload/ military is not applicaple, in jail, you not contributing anything to your child, in the other two you are.

**Ahtman**

hotsauceman1 wrote:
I explained why heavy workload/ military is not applicaple, in jail

The metric was they were bad parents becuase they made choices that lead to not being around their kids for long stretches, which is still quite applicable. The rest is arbitrary goal post shuffling. The reason the definition has to keep chaning is becuase the underlying argument (all people in jail are bad parents) is untenable.

hotsauceman1 wrote:
you not contributing anything to your child, in the other two you are.

Unless you are putting your life in order in order to be a better parent such as getting off drugs or getting an education. Forgetting that for a second if (something as incredibly vague as) contributing anything to your child was the measure of a good parent, then the Menendez brother's parents, and all other rich parents, would be the best, and yet, I can think of several examples of truly awful well off parents.

**daedalus**

Here's a compelling premise: There surely exist gakky parents that are not in prison.

With that in mind, what if, for those set of people, being imprisoned WOULD be contributing positively toward the future of their child(ren), simply by virtue of them not being present during their upbringing?

Perhaps absence IS an asset of sorts.