2K - Jy2's 50 Shades of Pink Daemons vs Blackmoor's Spydar Footdar (Completed)

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**DarthDiggler**

Go get him Blackmoor!

**Blackmoor**

No one ever shoots at guardians!

**Shandara**

Blackmoor wrote:

The second reason why is that they do not have to have guide anymore. With their BS 3 they averaged only 12 shots hitting out of 24 without guide (18 with guide). Now with BS 4, and the first Scatter Laser TL the second one they average 18.6. So for a slight point increase they have a lot more firepower.

Unfortunately you can't twinlink the scatter lasers themselves if you take 2 on each walker (since you are required to fire all Laser Lock weapons first).

**Blackmoor**

Shandara wrote:
Blackmoor wrote:

The second reason why is that they do not have to have guide anymore. With their BS 3 they averaged only 12 shots hitting out of 24 without guide (18 with guide). Now with BS 4, and the first Scatter Laser TL the second one they average 18.6. So for a slight point increase they have a lot more firepower.

Unfortunately you can't twinlink the scatter lasers themselves if you take 2 on each walker (since you are required to fire all Laser Lock weapons first).

You are right.

All the more reason why I am switching over to Scatter Lasers/Star Cannons

**tanuvein**

I don't run War Walkers, but Wraithlords with Scatter Lasers/Starcannons are pretty brutal. I imagine with the cheaper and more mobile War Walkers will be even more effective with them.

**jy2**

Battle report updated.

Sorry, but I will get to responses a little later tonight.

Blackmoor wrote:
Well, here it is at last

A few quick notes:

I was busy the few days before my game with JY2 so I just threw a bunch of my eldar models together and made a list at work before coming down. When I got to the store I thought that we were going to play BAO missions so I made my list for 1750, but JY2 wanted to play 2000 points. The funny thing is that I looked at my sheet and I only built a 1500 point list so I failed on several fronts. I quickly swapped out my Jetseer for Eldrad, added 10 unpainted warp spiders, and added the harlequins.

My list is basically the foot elder list that I ran at Comikazi Con that I got 2nd place with last fall. I always liked warp spiders and dark reapers and this book just made them better.

I also avoided reading any of JY2 batreps because I wanted to be surprised by what he brought. I am glad that I always took bright lances on my guardians because I was not expecting a lot of soul grinders.

This was really a test game for me since I have not really played my foot eldar much in 6th edition, and I wanted to see what the new codex can do. I ended up making a lot of mistakes that you will see. Not giving any spoilers away but:
I never used Eldrad’s warlord power of +1 cover save (and I could have used it).
I planned on shooting my war walkers and then running back using battle focus, and then I was going to bubble wrapping them with guardians. When it came time to shoot them I forgot to run them and left them out in the open.
I was still stuck in 5th edition with my harlequins and I thought I could assault with them after running. I completely forgot that they can’t do that anymore.
I forgot about warp spiders getting +1 strength against models that are I3 or less. I did not put the pieces together with the soul grinders since they are vehicles.
I also made a lot of stupid mistakes like thinking that the soul grinders battlecannon shot only had a 24” range as seen above on turn #1. .

I will say that JY2 and I both got lucky on the psychic powers that we rolled. I got all of the ones that I wanted, and JY2 got his. I was hoping that he would not get the +4 inv save, but on the very first roll he hit it.

I think I will use this as your Pre-game Analysis.

**Janthkin**

What'd you shoot the Avatar with?

**jy2**

Horrors + 1 Herald and LoC shot at the Avatar.

Grinder flamed the warp spiders and then failed his charge (was something like 10-11" away).

Grinder phlegmed the war walkers. The blast also hit a jetbike.

**anonymou5**

jy2 wrote:
Horrors + 1 Herald and LoC shot at the Avatar.

Grinder flamed the warp spiders and then failed his charge (was something like 10-11" away).

Grinder phlegmed the war walkers. The blast also hit a jetbike.

But don't you know, internet wisdom says Flickering Fire is terrible.

**DaddyWarcrimes**

To be fair, Flickering Fire was terrible when Runes of Warding were useful. Now, it's huge. When Runic Weapons get changed sometime in 2015, it's going to be even better.

**hippesthippo**

OMG, those Jetbikes are awwwwwesome. I'm rooting for the Space Elves!

Time for a comeback, Blackmoor.

**Blackmoor**

hippesthippo wrote:
OMG, those Jetbikes are awwwwwesome. I'm rooting for the Space Elves!

Time for a comeback, Blackmoor.

After Chaos turn 2 I have him right where I want him...in my face with an invincible Lord of Change and and several AV 13 vehicles!

Automatically Appended Next Post:

jy2 wrote:
I am going to own the Avatar. BTW, the maulerfiend is Doomed but that is fine. I don't plan to assault the Avatar with him.

That is where I was going to move the war walkers back after shooting with their run move and cover them with guardians so your LoC can't assault them. When I forgot to run them they were sticking out and I covered them a little with the guardians, and I had to move the avatar into the gap. This meant that I would have to say goodbye to my avatar to save the war walkers.

**Ithani**

Do you guys remember when the new csm codex broke and everyone was trying to make it work and there was like a month or 2 of csm vs X battle reports when csm really struggled to get a win? I thought that was kind of weird at the time- in each game there should of been a player who knew his new csm codex pretty well as well as a good understanding of the other guys codex as while the other guy would have known his list well but have a pretty vague idea about the units coming at him. Add to that the fact that the meta hadnt had a chance to shift to accommodate the new codex and there were some really bad signs for csm that didnt really get solved till the cd codex.

Now consider the new Eldar codex...

1) I think the Eldar codex is great as hinted in its early success and the enjoyment their players seem to be reporting in reports and on the forums.
2) I think it is also particularly strong in the current meta (or possibly just 6e- time will tell).
3) I think the csm/cd is a very good counterlist to the elves based on the cd/csm's ability to close distances (mobility), weather the shooting storm (av+, 5++ and loc) and do significant damage from 12-24" or more.
4) I think Eldar are an army that will show (perhaps better against other lists) the ability to respond and evade while doing consistent damage all game and are a very strong comeback army.

Looking forward to the rest of the rep.

**rollawaythestone**

anonymou5 wrote:
jy2 wrote:
Horrors + 1 Herald and LoC shot at the Avatar.

Grinder flamed the warp spiders and then failed his charge (was something like 10-11" away).

Grinder phlegmed the war walkers. The blast also hit a jetbike.

But don't you know, internet wisdom says Flickering Fire is terrible.

Do I have it correct that anything with Soulblaze can't hurt the Avatar? Thus Flickering Fire can't touch him?

**Shandara**

".. all attacks that have the Melta and/or Soul Blaze special rules."

**djones520**

Shandara wrote:
".. all attacks that the Melta and/or Soul Blaze special rules."

Yeah... I think that Avatar got robbed.

**Dundas**

iirc Flickering Fire doesn't have Soul Blaze rule itself, it has the warpflame rule. So my understanding is that the main attack of flickering flame would still affect the avatar, but the secondary warpflame rule (which does have soul blaze) would not.

**Shandara**

Dundas wrote:

iirc Flickering Fire doesn't have Soul Blaze rule itself, it has the warpflame rule. So my understanding is that the main attack of flickering flame would still affect the avatar, but the secondary warpflame rule (which does have soul blaze) would not.

Flickering Flame has both rules, Soul Blaze is not a sub-rule of Warpflame. So the Avatar would be immune.

**Janthkin**

Unless it's somewhere so obscure I'm not finding it, Flickering Fire doesn't have Soul Blaze.

**whembly**

Janthkin wrote:
Unless it's somewhere so obscure I'm not finding it, Flickering Fire doesn't have Soul Blaze.

See page 68 of the Daemon Codex. It's there.

**Shandara**

We're talking about Flicker Fire of Tzeentch right? Change Discipline Primaris. In my codex on page 68 it has Soul Blaze and Warpflame.

**Janthkin**

...huh. I originally asked what shot the Avatar specifically because I was thinking exactly that, but when I checked the book, I didn't find it.

Well then yes - the Avatar should have laughed off all the Flickering Fire attention.

**jy2**

rollawaythestone wrote:
anonymou5 wrote:
jy2 wrote:
Horrors + 1 Herald and LoC shot at the Avatar.

Grinder flamed the warp spiders and then failed his charge (was something like 10-11" away).

Grinder phlegmed the war walkers. The blast also hit a jetbike.

But don't you know, internet wisdom says Flickering Fire is terrible.

Do I have it correct that anything with Soulblaze can't hurt the Avatar? Thus Flickering Fire can't touch him?

Shandara wrote:
".. all attacks that have the Melta and/or Soul Blaze special rules."

I lost my Daemon codex so can't reference it, but I thought it was Warpflame that had the Soulblaze rule, not Flickering Fire?

Can anyone quote the FF rule if soulblaze is in it?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Shandara wrote:
We're talking about Flicker Fire of Tzeentch right? Change Discipline Primaris. In my codex on page 68 it has Soul Blaze and Warpflame.

If that is true, then it was an honest mistake.

But that's good to know for the next time I try to kill the Avatar.

**keltikhoa**

I do not have my codex but I do have the Psyker app. according to it Flicker Fire is

Range 24 Strength 5 AP 4 Assault 2d6, Soul Blaze, Warpflame

**whembly**

keltikhoa wrote:
I do not have my codex but I do have the Psyker app. according to it Flicker Fire is

Range 24 Strength 5 AP 4 Assault 2d6, Soul Blaze, Warpflame

Yup, that's what it says on page 68.

**jy2**

keltikhoa wrote:
I do not have my codex but I do have the Psyker app. according to it Flicker Fire is

Range xx Strength x AP x Assault x, Soul Blaze, Warpflame

Ah, thanks.

Now I know. Been playing it without Soul Blaze after all these games. Always thought SB was a part of Warpflame.

**undertow**

jy2 wrote:
keltikhoa wrote:
I do not have my codex but I do have the Psyker app. according to it Flicker Fire is

Range xx Strength x AP x Assault x, Soul Blaze, Warpflame

Ah, thanks.

Now I know. Been playing it without Soul Blaze after all these games. Always thought SB was a part of Warpflame.

I'm guilty of that too. I usually remember the Warpflame test, but I've totally forgotten the SB.

**whembly**

undertow wrote:
jy2 wrote:
keltikhoa wrote:
I do not have my codex but I do have the Psyker app. according to it Flicker Fire is

Range xx Strength x AP x Assault x, Soul Blaze, Warpflame

Ah, thanks.

Now I know. Been playing it without Soul Blaze after all these games. Always thought SB was a part of Warpflame.

I'm guilty of that too. I usually remember the Warpflame test, but I've totally forgotten the SB.

Not to derail the thread too much, but if the CSM list starts adding the Warpflame Gargoyle to Defilers, LR, etc... woundn't the Avatar be immune to those weapons?

**Shandara**

If that gargoyle is a melta, soul blaze or flamer weapon or a pyromancy power, yes. If not, no.

**whembly**

Shandara wrote:
If that gargoyle is a melta, soul blaze or flamer weapon or a pyromancy power, yes. If not, no.

Adds soul blaze.

Well dip me in pudding... I gotta let my Eldar players know this.

I initially thought that the Avatar would still get wounded by a Warpflame enhanced LasCannon or Battle Cannon.... that it just ignores the effect of the SB.