Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

TyranidPainter wrote:

MerkQT wrote:
You may want to include where you post to. As I understand it, if I were to buy an emperors champion painted from you, it would probably end up costing you more in postage fees to send it here than the £10 covers.

For the record, I like your paintwork. I don't know if it's professional or not but it's certainly much better than I am capable of at the moment.

After fully reading the entire thread, there's some really sound advice being said, and it's good to know you are taking it on board. You could make some money if you were to adapt some of the suggestions being put forward.

Thank you. It's refreshing to hear some sound advice that isn't worded in a judgemental....errm....style. We need more people like you over here. Why did you ever leave our empire. We're lost without you :( x x

They're only "judgmental" to you because you disagree with what was said.

Ok well I'm not offended by people comments on my painting and I don't know where people would have got that from as I havn't bitched or moanf at all and I have certainly been accepting peoples critisizm. I am however offended by people surgesting that I'm bitching and moaning. WHERE! I don't appriciate people making me out to be a, for lack of a better word, whimp!

No said you were complaining or moaning or called you a wimp. You took a defensive stance; claiming that while you appreciated the feedback you essentially didn't need because you "know what you are doing" and when someone pointed out a bunch of mold lines you denied they were there (they are) and followed it with a sarcastic comment with a *rolls eyes* to go along with it. On top of that you said your tyranid model had "detail nowhere near as good" as a tyranid model that was part of a award-winning diorama (it earned a silver at 2012 UK Golden Demon contest: http://www.coolminiornot.com/314943?browseid=5836948). All of those things are childish and unprofessional.

So, you are either trolling (if that's the case, it isn't welcome here) or not ready to handle anything other than overwhelming praise. Either way, just get over it and move on.

EDIT: Things were posted while I was typing this, so let me clarify: I hope you realized the error of your ways and please continue to post here with new pictures, updates, whatever. It is one of the best ways to improve, trust me. Almost every painter nowadays has that moment of clarity when they first post their stuff on the internet and the biting reality of "oh, people don't think this is as good as I do..." sets in. It sucks, but we all go through it and it just make you strive harder to improve.

 insaniak wrote:

TyranidPainter wrote:
Thank you. I will take their messages on board but it just came as a shock that they were being so hostile when so many local people have complimented me so much.

Welcome to the internet. You're not the first to be caught out by that.

Not the hostility... for the most part, poeple weren't being hostile at all, just offering criticism. But when someone's hobby exposure has mostly been a local community where their work is better than those around them, it can come as a rude shock to step out into the world and discover that they're suddenly just a very small fish in a very big pond. I went through a similar thing myself, many, many years ago, thinking my work was all that, and then moved to a larger city where all of a sudden I was just average...

The trick is just to take that as a push to improve, rather than be put off by it.

Then I shall seek to do that. Thanks for understanding x x

Gota say I'm with the masses here... The word professional either needs to vanish, or the standard of work needs to accurately reflect the word.

I will also say that I can't see any detail in your work... not because it doesn't exist.. but because of the poor photography. Detail may or may not be present in your work.. at this point I cannot say, there is no evidence to suggest either way.
But being as you regard yourself as a professional.... I guess you do know how to take a photo... as its a major part of the profession afterall. And must assume that youve got bad photo's on purpose in order to hide poor painting.

I realise that I'm making rather harsh, almost nasty assumptions there, but as a consumer, thats what we do.

Advice; get better at photography, and THEN you will find out what people actualy think of your paint work, and be able to rate it on the table top ---> showcase quality scale and apply a reasonable price vs your competing commission painters.
Assuming you do all that and succeed, getting custom and work load, undercutting the competition would result in crazy amounts of work load, and be the downfall of your venture when you cant manage the work load you took on when so eager, then to find that your working all day every day for pennies on the hour because you didnt price to the market.
Although from what i said about assuming bad paint becuase of bad photo's means youve priced approriately... allthough id want to pay less than retail for anything that needs stripping which is what people will assume from the lack of picture quality.
If your work is genuinly good, you dont need to tell us... it will speak volumes for itself.do yourself a favor and get pic's that allow it to show itself off. If you want to offer professional service, you need to get professional with the picture part too.

Actually finishing them might be a good start too, even the dakka showcase requires models ot be based before theyre considered finished. These are work in progress shots at best. So we still dont know what your product remotely looks like, and you would have us believe its describable as 'professional'... for the record... i would consider 'awesome paint job' and others that most people here can reel off a list of to be the professionals here, this is strictly amateur at best.

HairySticks wrote:
Gota say I'm with the masses here... The word professional either needs to vanish, or the standard of work needs to accurately reflect the word.

I will also say that I can't see any detail in your work... not because it doesn't exist.. but because of the poor photography. Detail may or may not be present in your work.. at this point I cannot say, there is no evidence to suggest either way.
But being as you regard yourself as a professional.... I guess you do know how to take a photo... as its a major part of the profession afterall. And must assume that youve got bad photo's on purpose in order to hide poor painting.

I realise that I'm making rather harsh, almost nasty assumptions there, but as a consumer, thats what we do.

Advice; get better at photography, and THEN you will find out what people actualy think of your paint work, and be able to rate it on the table top ---> showcase quality scale and apply a reasonable price vs your competing commission painters.
Assuming you do all that and succeed, getting custom and work load, undercutting the competition would result in crazy amounts of work load, and be the downfall of your venture when you cant manage the work load you took on when so eager, then to find that your working all day every day for pennies on the hour because you didnt price to the market.
Although from what i said about assuming bad paint becuase of bad photo's means youve priced approriately... allthough id want to pay less than retail for anything that needs stripping which is what people will assume from the lack of picture quality.
If your work is genuinly good, you dont need to tell us... it will speak volumes for itself.do yourself a favor and get pic's that allow it to show itself off. If you want to offer professional service, you need to get professional with the picture part too.

Actually finishing them might be a good start too, even the dakka showcase requires models ot be based before theyre considered finished. These are work in progress shots at best. So we still dont know what your product remotely looks like, and you would have us believe its describable as 'professional'... for the record... i would consider 'awesome paint job' and others that most people here can reel off a list of to be the professionals here, this is strictly amateur at best.

I wish I could afford a better camera but these photo's were taken off of a relatives Iphone so I doubt better picture quality is needed. And my work is priced so low for a reason. I think it's crule for people to charge high prices for something they enjoy doing anyway. The poorer classes (like myself) should also have access to finely painted models in my oppinion. If the work load becomes excessive I set them up in ques and close commissions when they're full untill I'm done. And yes, your comment was extreamly harsh. You can see the detail on there photo's quite clearly enough x x

Lol, sorry but you're kidding yourself. Those pics are entirely blury, hazey and a bit blocky looking.
The lighting is horrible, theres glare on the models, and places with barely any light atall. The background is not flattering, a clean solid colour (usualy white or off white) will bring focus to the model rather than its surroundings. This is especially true with the hive tyrant standing before some great bright red/orange object that takes all the attention away from the model.
Theres little to no focus on anything int the shot atall. Should i even mention white balance?
If you genuinly cannot see the difference between that photo and the model in your hand, you may need glasses.
I have to believe that the photo is hiding a great deal of your work... which I can't comment on yet as i cant see it tbh. No one can judge wether or not to buy this item from that picture when the paint job is the commodity being sold.

edit; the camera may not be great either, but theres a handful of things wrong there that are your doing, not the camera
also, this level of pic wouldnt necessarily be so much a problem if you were not trying to sell a paint job, labeled as professional.

Professionalism doesnt actually relate to quality of paint work as much as it relates to being professional, in showing and describing the product, interacting with others about comments and concerns raised, being able to take criticisms without taking it personally...
A professional would probably have a bussiness card, a website, relaible payment method set up, a good portfolio of their work, maybe even be registered bussiness and pay taxes/enjoy tax breaks for supplies and tools (including the suitable camera you apparantly do not have)

I hate to rain on your parade but the honest truth is the work you posted is table top at best. Now there is nothing wrong with that, and people (especially local folks) will pay for it.

Instead of being insulted by folks, particularly people like Winterdyne, who happens to be one of the BEST commission painters in the business today. Be happy that he even decided to acknowledge your post. If you had taken a different approach with him he might have even offered suggestions to help you become a better painter, and a profitable commission painter at that.

I know its hard to read people rip apart your work, I get it. I take pride in mine as well, even if it isn't anywhere close to what some people can do.

If you want an honest opinion of your work and if it's ready for the big time, put your pictures up on Coolminiornot.com. if your miniatures consistently average a 7 or higher you can legitimately say your ' a professional painter".

Anyway long rant. Bottom line, Good Luck and keep at it.


Oh and if Winterdyne is still reading these comments please look at my stuff (particularly the WarMachine minis and drop some knowledge my way PLEASE).

@darefsky: Some washes and re-highlights I think will help - nothing complex, just time consuming, not quite sure which pic I was supposed to be looking at - the big-ass collossal?

TyranidPainter wrote:
I wish I could afford a better camera but these photo's were taken off of a relatives Iphone so I doubt better picture quality is needed.

Yes, better picture quality is needed. You aren't going to convince anyone to buy from you when they can't really tell what your models look like. Take a look at high-rated pictures by other people and notice how they did their photography. You might not be able to get the best possible image quality of a high-end DSLR but you need to at least learn how to use your camera settings properly, set up a good light box, etc. And it's not really even that hard. Consider this picture for example:



Yeah it's taken with a low-end DSLR instead of an iphone, but pay attention to three things about the setup:

1) Focus is set properly so the whole model is in focus. Compare that to your Tyranid pictures where the closer bits are out of focus and too blurry to see what anything is. Use macro mode (the flower icon) on your camera so it knows that it's dealing with something up close where focal length is very sensitive, and make absolutely sure that you're focusing on the right thing.

2) I used a simple white surface and background to remove all the clutter. This does three important things: it reflects some light back onto the model to make it a bit more evenly lit, it gives a nice plain background color so you can focus on the model without distraction, and it removes all of the random stuff on the table so it looks a little more professional (if I was really trying I'd replace the tablecloth with a proper white sheet as well).

3) I put the camera on a tripod so I could use a fairly long exposure time (IOW, make it bright enough to see details) and remove all blur from shaky hands.

Add a bit of color correction in photoshop and the total time was maybe a minute of "work". So you're not exactly spending tons of time and money on this.

And my work is priced so low for a reason. I think it's crule for people to charge high prices for something they enjoy doing anyway.

No, it's just basic business sense. People have broken it down for you, charging the prices you're talking about barely covers your expenses. You're doing this as a charity service, not a business, and you're going to be making well below minimum wage. Now, that's fine if you just want to subsidize your painting hobby and help some people out, but don't fool yourself into thinking you're going to be making any money doing this.

The poorer classes (like myself) should also have access to finely painted models in my oppinion.

Then they should learn to paint. Nothing you've posted is beyond what the average person can do with a little practice, and having someone else paint your models for you is not a right.

You can see the detail on there photo's quite clearly enough x x

No, you really can't. Your pictures are a dark and blurry mess. And don't forget it doesn't matter what you think, what matters is what your potential customers think. So if you have people saying "I wouldn't even consider buying without better pictures" you need to learn how to take better pictures whether you like it or not.

Is it an iPhone 4S or 5? Cause I can show you that those camera can be incredibly good actually. But any less than iPhone 4 isn't going to be able to take very good photos.

Regardless of skill it important to make it worth your time.

I work in the webdesign industry and I see people offering sites for as low as £100, there is a reason why they are so cheap and I talk to businesses that have gone with these cheap sites and in the long run they have problems. This is where the difference between doing it for a bit of pocket money or being professional.

Think about your whole process
- Client consultation -
- Test build
- Client review and wanted changes
- Shipping to client

Other costs
Hosting , domain custom coding etc.

So for me as a professional I cannot afford to offer my services for £100 as I would be better to go and get a minimum wage job once all my time and expenses has been worked out.

If you want to do this professionally then you will need to setup as a professional , there are many ways to get funding in the uk for starting a business.

Your other option would is the long Journey but will build a customer base as you grow would be the following

Start a blog - use blogger it free
Post up you work
Start a blog thread on all the major forums
Have a facebook page and other social media
Write tutorials

The aim here is to establish yourself as a authority within the community online and from there customers will come.

For me I have looked at commission painters and very tempted to get my army done as I don't have the time to paint them but there are many factors that I consider when choosing and cost and skill is important .

I can't really give much criticism of the paint jobs, because the picture quality isn't great. If all you have is an iPhone, then you need to learn to make the most of it.

I knocked up a light box out of white card and Sellotape. The painting may not be your bag, but it gives an idea of what is possible on a non existent budget.

White card, a print out with a blue fade, and two desk lamps with daylight bulbs. Total outlay was £20 for the bulbs. Pics taken on an iPhone. They aren't amazing, but they let the viewer see as much detail as is possible with a camera phone.

winterdyne wrote:
@darefsky: Some washes and re-highlights I think will help - nothing complex, just time consuming, not quite sure which pic I was supposed to be looking at - the big-ass collossal?

Thanks! The colossal is a bear to work on (it broke the camels back on me finally getting an airbrush after painting it by hand).

TyranidPainter wrote:
And my work is priced so low for a reason. I think it's crule for people to charge high prices for something they enjoy doing anyway.

You're living with your parents, and don't have to pay for your rent, food or bills. Serious commission painters do.

You need to learn the ability to see things from a different perspective in life.

Another bit of advice I'd offer is losing the chip on your shoulder about "the poorer classes".. I grew up in arse-end-of-nowhere council estates with pretty much nothing and still went to university and found decent employment.
If you start labelling yourself as "lower class" you're doomed.

Anyway, good luck, I did some commission painting when I was 14-16 years old (£1 a mini for nicely-painted minis that took around 45 minutes each) but soon gave it up as soon as I could get a proper job which paid triple (around £6/hour).

Alright, I've read this thread from start to finish, and here's the input of some other random guy on the internet:

I do local commissions. I'm not great, but my friends are worse lol. I'll be honest, I charge them $5 for a mini, or if they want a higher end model (good as I can get kind of high end), we discuss it. My skill cannot compare to what commission dealers I find just here on Dakka alone, let alone anywhere else (ex. CMoN).

Here would be my suggestions:
1. Stick local for a bit. Work on your skills, compare yourself to what you find online. If you find something better, work to achieve that ability. YES, the point is that you'll always find somebody who's better. That's the point

2. Drop your prices. Like others have mentioned, cheaper. Break them down some more:
tabletop quality $2
better quality $5
basing add $1-2, depending.
I don't charge hourly, only per model work. If I've gotta do airbrush work, I'll up the price a few more dollars just because I've gotta clean my airbrush lol. If I have to purchase a color I don't already have (now becoming increasingly rare) I communicate that, and adjust the price accordingly. My consumers know what I'm doing, why, and how much.

Which, at this point, I'll bounce back to bullet #1: when your skills go up, THEN tweak your prices. TWEAK. Like, go from $2 up to $5 for tabletop, and $5 up to $10 for best quality. Economics 101: Supply and demand. If they demand, you supply. If they don't demand, you can't supply. Jump the prices too far and suddenly the demand drops, ya know? Gotta make it worth it.

3. Light box. You want to know my set up? 2 pieces of cardboard, making a "poster box" of sorts, lined with printer paper, and a desk lamp with a daylight bulb behind a piece of wax paper. All photos taken with my phone. Unless the images are super old, b/c I'll admit openly they SUCK.

This step also includes a portfolio. As suggested, blog it up! Free blog spaces everywhere and then some. While working on your skills, participating on the forums online, put your link in your signature. Somebody clicks it, sees your work, word gets out, they order from you, they like you, they pass the word, etc...

4. Already mentioned 2 million times: Thicker skin or get out. No sugar coat, no pulling the punch, but I'm not trying to punch any harder. If I was truly interested in your business, and clicked into this forum seeking a business deal and found the mini explosions from you that I read a few minutes prior to writing this, I'd avoid you. First and foremost for anything professional oriented, besides the work, is the attitude. A single bad review for your mannerisms gets out, and you'll sink like an anchor. Start from the beginning of this post and read it from the beginning, from my point of view. You'll see.

Please take these suggestions to heart. I actively avoid confrontation online, as it's a headache easily avoided, so long as everybody involved keeps their cool. It's interesting how a forum suddenly changes the words in your head to sound more menacing and sarcastic.

Post your WIP pictures, get critiqued, work on your stuff, get your business rolling. It's difficult, and an uphill battle. I only consistently work on 2-3 peoples models (locally). It's rough, and it's pocket change I put back into the hobby.

I wish you the best of luck. Don't let this ruin you, get back on the horse and start over. You'll get it.

 fenrir1997 wrote:

2. Drop your prices. Like others have mentioned, cheaper. Break them down some more:
tabletop quality $2
better quality $5
basing add $1-2, depending.
I don't charge hourly, only per model work. If I've gotta do airbrush work, I'll up the price a few more dollars just because I've gotta clean my airbrush lol. If I have to purchase a color I don't already have (now becoming increasingly rare) I communicate that, and adjust the price accordingly. My consumers know what I'm doing, why, and how much.

Which, at this point, I'll bounce back to bullet #1: when your skills go up, THEN tweak your prices. TWEAK. Like, go from $2 up to $5 for tabletop, and $5 up to $10 for best quality. Economics 101: Supply and demand. If they demand, you supply. If they don't demand, you can't supply. Jump the prices too far and suddenly the demand drops, ya know? Gotta make it worth it.

Good point, Fenrir! I started out charging $5 for a 25mm based tabletop quality model (fully cleaned, basecoated in 3-6 colors, washes, 1-2 layers of highlights, light battle damage) and I'm now charging $12 for that same work. Why? Well, demand for my work has skyrocketed. I've also improved as a painter since I first started. Now I can charge $24-$30 for my highest quality work on a rank-and-file 25mm model. But you cannot charge that price until you're really established and respected and have a solid, loyal customer base. For example, I have customers that I've been doing work pretty much nonstop for the last 3 years, no matter what I charge.

Commission painting is hard - you have to be smart, you have to be cunning, and above all, you have to be willing to work you butt off for the first couple years to get yourself established.

~Tim?

 insaniak wrote:

Not the hostility... for the most part, poeple weren't being hostile at all, just offering criticism. But when someone's hobby exposure has mostly been a local community where their work is better than those around them, it can come as a rude shock to step out into the world and discover that they're suddenly just a very small fish in a very big pond. I went through a similar thing myself, many, many years ago, thinking my work was all that, and then moved to a larger city where all of a sudden I was just average...

The trick is just to take that as a push to improve, rather than be put off by it.

We do have some exceptional painters in the brisbane area, I won't lie.

I looked at your models, Tyranid and I rated them at the same level as mine. My models aren't exceptional by anyone's internet standard, but they're good enough that I've done a little (a little) bit of comission work for local people. However, if you produce models to a standard that people are happy with, and you get good pay out of it, what do you care what a bunch of internet people say?

I agree 100% with Ian though. You shouldn't take the setback you've felt here as an insult, but use it as a reason to improve.

 scarletsquig wrote:

TyranidPainter wrote:
And my work is priced so low for a reason. I think it's crule for people to charge high prices for something they enjoy doing anyway.

You're living with your parents, and don't have to pay for your rent, food or bills. Serious commission painters do.

Now here's my advice to you. Don't just assume stuff. What on earth gave you the impression I was living with my parents!? Kinda wish I was as I was alot richer back then but I don't and yes I do have bills to pay so stop assuming things x x

The first time I posted my work on Dakka was very rough. It can be difficult to have something that you put so much time and heart into ripped apart. After being on Dakka for a few years and having posted more of my work I can tell you that my own skills have grown greatly. I owe it all to the same kind of ruthless criticism you have received here. The advice you are offered here is honest and intended to help you grow as a painter. Be humble and take the time to consider the advice offered.

To be fair, I think it was your statement that led to the assumption. Many people love their job, including me, but when you have bills to pay, time becomes precious. I don't do commission work because I'm not good enough, but I love painting. If someone asked me to paint a model for them, they'd have to be willing to pony up £25 an hour, because that is what my time is worth elsewhere. And I'm slooooow.

Why would I do it for free, or for pennies, when I could be painting my own models, or earning decent money at one of my jobs?

I agree about the 'poorer classes' thing too. The huge majority out there (again, including me), started out without much of anything. Life is what you make it though. I left school with sod all qualifications, but I'm a grafter. Just bought a convertible beamer to park next to my jag.

It's admirable that you want to start a business to make some dough. In fact, its exactly what the economy needs more of, but you need to be open to what the peeps in this thread are saying - business is dog eat dog, and folks are only trying to help.

TyranidPainter wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

 sub-zero wrote:
I don't mean to sound harsh here, but calling these minis "professionally painted" is pretty far from the truth. The barrels aren't drilled out, I can see mold lines, the bases are completely blank, and the it looks like the paint has been applied too thick. I appreciate the effort to start a money making venture, but if these are the results of your work, your customers are going to want their money back, just sayin.....

Rite well A: barrels arn't supposed to be drilled out and B: I'm very impressed you can see mold lines on these pic's 'cos I can't even see them on the models. So either you've got super human eyesite or I'm blind and if I'm blind that makes these models even more spectacular *rolls eyes*.

There's a line right on the end of the gun you didn't drill out. And barrels are supposed to be drilled out, all decent painters/modellers do this. I think you're charging too little for your time, there's very little margin really. The other issue is simple quality, they aren't better than those in White Dwarf, the marine is barely tabeltop, and until you improve you won't be able to charge more, which is your problem. You should take on board advice from people like Winterdyne, harsh as it is to take, because they know their trade. You ask why people charge a 'stupid amount' for a professionally painted miniature, that's because it can be a full time job, and it is very time consuming. It's also very competitive.

Wait, why is it cruel to charge the right amount for a job you love? I love my job... so I should charge less? Loving your job does not mean the work gets easier, or the costs gets lower.

My advice? Stop replying to this thread. It's not bad, but you've handled yourself in a very unprofessional manner with regards to taking criticism (meaning you can't take it). Saying "I appreciate the advice but honestly, I know what I'm doing" sounds condescending at best, and from the looks of it it doesn't really look like you have the skills to say "you know what you're doing." It's not better than "most professional standard" stuff, nor 'Eavy Metal standards (and I'm not even a fan of 'Eavy Metal!). In a way you're indirectly insulting us who do miniature painting commissions. It's almost akin to saying to winterdyne (and me to some extent, but I am less of a commission painter than he is) "I paint better than most of your lot". Now can you see why it would be insulting, especially posting it on a forum where a lot of members are commission painters? Particularly if you show us bad-lit photos which are tabletop standard.

It may also not be your intention, but you come off as both arrogant, slightly hostile and insecure with the way you conduct yourself on this thread. So you can also try working on that. Look at how other professionals on any field handle business and criticism, and try conducting yourself in the same manner when handling business transactions and criticism.

With regards to quality... let's just say practice makes perfect. It took me 2 years of painting 5-8 hours a day to reach the level I am now, and I still need to learn a lot. If I shied away from criticism (even small things like "drill your barrels!" I used to not drill my barrels or clean mold lines), I wouldn't be where I am now.

I don't drill many gun barrels, but those fat bolter barrels need it bad.

TyranidPainter wrote:

 scarletsquig wrote:

TyranidPainter wrote:
And my work is priced so low for a reason. I think it's crule for people to charge high prices for something they enjoy doing anyway.

You're living with your parents, and don't have to pay for your rent, food or bills. Serious commission painters do.

Now here's my advice to you. Don't just assume stuff. What on earth gave you the impression I was living with my parents!? Kinda wish I was as I was alot richer back then but I don't and yes I do have bills to pay so stop assuming things x x

Well then, you really need to shape up your attitude. Judging by the caliber of your posts, we had all assumed you were a teen/preteen still living at home...Maturity is key when it comes to running a business, because you have to be able to handle difficult customers calmly. And trust me, you'll eventually have to deal with customers that make you wanna tear your hair out.

~Tim?

After reading the first page, I thought the OP was just trolling...but then I read the whole thing.

If the OP is still reading this thread, please consider a few things:
Posting your work on an online forum will get you many opinions. Some of them may be harsh or rude; but that's what happens on the internet.
You haven't taken anything to heart. It's advice to make you better at what you want to do. If we were all potential customers, we're basically telling you what we would expect from you as an artist, which you should take seriously if you're a "professional."
Nobody is out to make you feel bad (well, at least not that I could see.) If someone says that your mold lines need cleaning and your paint is too thick, it's not because they're trying to insult you. Those things do need to be fixed, or the model suffers.
Taking pictures of what you do is the only way to get them out for people to see, so picture taking should be approached seriously. Take some simple steps to take better pictures.
Everything you say on the internet goes toward your reputation. That's all you have on the internet, the only thing we can see are your words and the pictures of your work. So far, your grammar and spelling have been poor, and your pictures have been low quality and poorly done. That reflects badly on you, and that will translate to people's perception of your work.
Please take this all as advice, and not as an attack. It's not meant to be rude or condescending. Take it, swallow your pride, and improve. Rinse and repeat.
Best of luck to you.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:

TyranidPainter wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

 sub-zero wrote:
I don't mean to sound harsh here, but calling these minis "professionally painted" is pretty far from the truth. The barrels aren't drilled out, I can see mold lines, the bases are completely blank, and the it looks like the paint has been applied too thick. I appreciate the effort to start a money making venture, but if these are the results of your work, your customers are going to want their money back, just sayin.....

Rite well A: barrels arn't supposed to be drilled out and B: I'm very impressed you can see mold lines on these pic's 'cos I can't even see them on the models. So either you've got super human eyesite or I'm blind and if I'm blind that makes these models even more spectacular *rolls eyes*.

I think you're charging too little for your time, there's very little margin really. The other issue is simple quality, they aren't better than those in White Dwarf, the marine is barely tabeltop, and until you improve you won't be able to charge more, which is your problem.

I think this is the basic problem with trying to get in to commission painting.

You....
1) Need to be able to paint high enough quality to ask decent money for your services.

2) Need to be asking a reasonable amount of money for your time.

So you need to be able to paint a high standard faster than your average hobbyist, otherwise you end up with an atrocious wage when you consider the effective hourly rate.

As a teenager I considered getting in to commission painting. After looking at what was available from other painters I decided that to paint a quality that would come near them would take me so long that charging the same price as them earned me less than... well... anything. So while I might have enjoyed painting, I couldn't justify the terrible hourly wage.

Even if you look at a lot of higher level commission painters, most are earning pretty pathetic hourly wages. Personally I think it's only really worth commission painting if you can paint exceptionally fast at a high quality OR you can paint Golden Demon standard and ask tons of cash for each model.

You still don't make much even at the high end.

It also makes sense if you already have a full time job and take a commission now and again for some spending cash. It's not like you were actually working those hours.

I think a good way to gauge interest in your painting outside of your local area would be to do up several quality pieces and build yourself a gallery and see how well they fare on ebay or similar places. Its a good chance to paint something that really showcases your talents and range of ability and if the painting hits the right mark you can recoup the costs of the models whilst expanding your portfolio.

You will benefit from a cheap backdrop for photos and a basic photo editing programme to get the image right

This is really the closest to painting for profit I have come myself as I genuinely dont trust my ability to share a clients vision, I regularly sell 50% over retail on my auctions on ebay but wouldnt count mtself as "professional"

(Admittedly I sell models to afford yet more models, but still)

winterdyne wrote:You still don't make much even at the high end.

Yeah, I didn't mean to suggest you would, just to say if you want make it worth while in any monetary sense (other than the fulfillment received for seeing someone else receive painted miniatures ).

Rented Tritium wrote:It also makes sense if you already have a full time job and take a commission now and again for some spending cash. It's not like you were actually working those hours.

Yeah, if you really enjoy painting models for other people, and I'm sure some people do, commission painting on the side isn't a bad idea. Though I think some people over estimate how much they like painting other peoples' models given how low it pays. Would you rather be painting someone else's models for a pittance, or just painting your own models, or doing something else completely different with your spare time? I tutor students in my spare time (or used to, back when I had spare time ) firstly because I enjoyed it and secondly it gave me cash on the side, but I don't consider that the same as commission painting it was significantly more cash per hour than even a good commission painter and not a lot of hours either, so I actually had time to spend the cash it earned me.

Wow so many comments, so much advice. I'm realy touched (no I can't spell as many of you already know) that you'd try and help me so much. I'm quite embarrassed about my first few replies now :(. I'm not going to let this minor setback stop my ambitions but maybe I should stick with ebay untill my quality improves. Thank you all for your advice. I will continue to post on here and I'd be greatfull if some of you'd keep an eye on my progress. Obviously I could not ask anyone to dedicate any of their time to help me but it is painfuly clear my painting needs improving so....help....please x x