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Wolfnid420 wrote:
I just dont think people want to put enough effort into how to get past an ADL Tau player and would rather bitch about it. They dont want to dedicate enough drop troops or highAV or whatever think they need, and rather than try new things and adapt to a new meta they'd rather throw up their arms and claim defeat.

About as insulting as saying:
I just don't think people want to put enough effort into their games to actually have to think about strategy, they'd rather just bitch about how everyone else is just bad and should learn to play. They just don't want to bring in anything that might force them to think a little, they'd rather just throw up their arms and go "screw it, I'll just play Tau instead."

I've played quite a lot of games against Tau and I still cannot think of a reliable counter to an ADL gunline. I've played wildly varying armies with GK to try and counter it. I know what my friend is bringing, it's almost always the same. I have won once, but it was more because of random rolls than anything. And then I played SoB once and that one was fine because SoB has the numbers and the power armour to soak up wounds while marching on the Tau. SoB are, weirdly, probably my favourite choice to field against Tau. It's still not a clear counter though. SoB just evens it out a little.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
S, In my game tonight i was playing tau v. eldar i kept hearing tau hate. Like how i can ignore cover, how i dont have the things modeled on, I do BTW, but certain things like EWO or MSS or Command and control node don't have official war gear. The guy was nice and a little frustrated but he is a good friend so i gave him a break. But still the table behind me(Necron v Eldar) I kept hearing tau trash, how we rendered his flyers obsolete, how we killed 600pts in one shot and so forth.
Why do i keep encountering Tau hate, but not DA hate, or deamon hate, or eldar hate?

Do you want an honest answer? Tau are the first OP 6th edition book.

They ignore so much of the games mechanics; taking away cover, overlapping overwatch, overwatch increased b.s. etc. And have some very powerful builds. In the hands of a good player, they are very nasty.

Personally, I don't complain. I think they should be good and they had that old crappy book for so long.

Wolfnid420 wrote:

Regarding the ADL, thats kinda how i feel about em, all these horror stories of charging Tau behind an ADL and just being massacred is kinda sad. I personally dont like them. Or riptides for that matter. but i think that any adl army is kind of silly because its very limiting and boring to play with and against. Yeah, Tau can delete the ADL but the troops that do it are sooo fragile. Prioritize them first and the entire army suffers greatly!! How many armies out there can be somewhat crippled by killing 1 or 2 units? No one complains about 6 or 12 guardsmen, and thats what they become without their lazer pointers of awesome lol

I just dont think people want to put enough effort into how to get past an ADL Tau player and would rather bitch about it. They dont want to dedicate enough drop troops or highAV or whatever think they need, and rather than try new things and adapt to a new meta they'd rather throw up their arms and claim defeat.

I think you're minimizing the situation a bit too much. What you're saying also works good if you know you're playing your friend Bill who always plays Tau, but it becomes much harder in a tournament setting where you could wind up against anyone. Yes, people are being hyperbolic (as usual) however, the game eventually gets so diluted that you can't fit everything you need to be effective into a single list, essentially causing the game to turn into Rock Paper Scissors.

I mean, the checklist I usually go through when looking at the stuff I need to make sure a list has before I'll consider it is this:

anti-tank
anti-horde
anti-flyer
moble suckerpunch (droppods, strike squads, etc)
troops
protection (ADL or transports) if points allow

Granted, sometimes, those overlap, however, if I break that down evenly at 1500 points, then it gets pretty thin trying to cover all the bases. I'd have to make sure I had at least 250 points in each of those categories, which could be one single unit that fills a particular role.

 Purifier wrote:
And then I played SoB once and that one was fine because SoB has the numbers and the power armour to soak up wounds while marching on the Tau. SoB are, weirdly, probably my favourite choice to field against Tau. It's still not a clear counter though. SoB just evens it out a little.

And so say I - it's not a counter, it's just an army that has no incredible one-trick ponies or hugely expensive "I WIN" wargear that can get shut down by the Tau. They march on and make some nice fish and chips once they get close enough. Which they have to do against pretty much everyone with varying degrees of success, I might add. They can deal with a bit of Horde (tau troops), a bit of armor (tau suits) and a bit of real tanks (true AV14 bastards). They're not specialists, unless you count getting into range less than 12'' and shooting you dead dead dead a specialist trait.

The reason for tau hate is the fact that they are the best shooters in an edition that makes their main weakness (CC) difficult if not obsolete in SOME cases.
Another thing to consider is that not a single tau unit got worse. There are some that still aren't very good but EVERY UNIT got a buff. Compare this to other 6th edition codexes. Eldar lost runes of warding and choosable phychic powers. Chaos defilers are now overpriced and some of the chaos cult units got overpriced as well. The dark angels got a good update but still struggle with the fact that their bikes have become much harder to use thanks to heldrakes and have hardly any AP 2 CC weapons that aren't unwieldy. Chaos daemons got much more fragile. The fact of the matter is that tau really didn't get any nerfs at all and take advantage of every single main advantage to 6th edition (warlord traits, allies, shooting, night fighting, overwatch).
Now I'm not going to go out and say that they're cheesy but they definetly have some hard to with and borderline OP options. Farsight bomb is one example of this. I still agree to play against tau players and I don't think they should be called cheesy but I can see why there's frustration.

Actually redacted

Im bad at reading sorry

still feels good to be conciderd kinda op/cheesy

Another thing to consider is that not a single tau unit got worse.

Actually a lot of units got worse even if the codex as a whole got better. Broadsides lost their railguns and got the far inferior heavy railrifles and also lost access to the A.S.S. Kroot lost their extra attack in CC and str 4. The Tau vehicle armory was outright gutted, trading multitrackers, target locks and targeting arrays for rubbish upgrades like the advanced targeting system and counterfire defense system. Pathfinder armor was dropped to 5+. Shield drones no longer copy saves. There are a great deal of nerfs, many of them quite severe. But between all of the non-working and outright terrible options that were made functional, the suboptimal options that became considerably better, and the large range new wargear, rules and units that have become available it can be hard to notice. After all, Tau players are going to bring what turns out to be good (which is admittedly a lot in this codex) while avoiding the poor options, just like anyone else attempting to build an effective list.

Phanixis wrote:

Another thing to consider is that not a single tau unit got worse.

Actually a lot of units got worse even if the codex as a whole got better. Broadsides lost their railguns and got the far inferior heavy railrifles and also lost access to the A.S.S. Kroot lost their extra attack in CC and str 4. The Tau vehicle armory was outright gutted, trading multitrackers, target locks and targeting arrays for rubbish upgrades like the advanced targeting system and counterfire defense system. Pathfinder armor was dropped to 5+. Shield drones no longer copy saves. There are a great deal of nerfs, many of them quite severe. But between all of the non-working and outright terrible options that were made functional, the suboptimal options that became considerably better, and the large range new wargear, rules and units that have become available it can be hard to notice. After all, Tau players are going to bring what turns out to be good (which is admittedly a lot in this codex) while avoiding the poor options, just like anyone else attempting to build an effective list.

The broadsides may have lost S10 but they gained the ability to take sky fire or interceptor and also have the option to take a bunch of missiles. I would argue that the broadsides are now much more versatile now than they were before and kroot are now much cheaper and can take sniper rounds which are amazing for monstrous creatures. Though these units lost certain things, they got buffs that make up for it. The vehicle armory might not be as good as before, I think the vehicles themselves retained their usefulness and in many cases got cheaper.

But they have also lost the aforementioned options. No longer will Broadsides destroy landraiders in your DZ while hiding behind shield drones. Instead they will run HYMP in conjunction missile drones to hunt light vehicles or flyers. They still took a major hit, but most Tau players will simple eschew they now poor heavy rail rifle and shield drone options for superior options. It is not so much that the Tau didn't suffer nerfs as that the Tau players simply won't take the nerfed options. The only difference between Tau and other factions is that because the Tau units a often modular in design , this will often boil down to choices in equipment as opposed to choices in units.

I'll be completely honest, my absolute first impression when I first cracked the Tau codex was that the shield drones no longer taking their owner's armor save and the broadside railgun changes would actually make us less effective, and the loss of flechette launchers that wound everybody really hurt me at least (not to mention the fast vehicles).

Then I started to read some stuff and changed my mind. The nerfs are very small compared to the buffs, but they're still there.

That said, our codex still has a few lemons in it. Automated repair system on our vehicles anyone?

 dementedwombat wrote:
I'll be completely honest, my absolute first impression when I first cracked the Tau codex was that the shield drones no longer taking their owner's armor save and the broadside railgun changes would actually make us less effective, and the loss of flechette launchers that wound everybody really hurt me at least (not to mention the fast vehicles).

Then I started to read some stuff and changed my mind. The nerfs are very small compared to the buffs, but they're still there.

That said, our codex still has a few lemons in it. Automated repair system on our vehicles anyone?

Not an upgrade i'll ever take! The only nerf i really hate from our new codex is the way they screwed up the seekermissile mechanic! I should be able to call in a seeker using a ML as if it were a heavy weapon in my FW squad damnit!! lol

 LValx wrote:

 tanuvein wrote:
:
And none of those lists were posted as lists that can force ALL opponents to do nothing.

The idea is that each of those lists is extreme enough to make a good amount of opponents feel helpless.

Lots of examples where some armies just cannot handle other armies and will therefore end up feeling a bit helpless.

But Tau does not even have try to make such imbalanced lists as in your examples because they always come in that way.

In our group we had a complete newbie who started with Tau. He tables most opponents without trouble, even when forgetting some important rules. 6th edition was made for Tau. As has been said, they have a counter for everything except melee, which they can avoid most of the time and Riptides can take out weaker targets.

Hmm, maybe I should just shelve my tau a bit

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Hmm, maybe I should just shelve my tau a bit

Haters gonna hate. For some people, whatever they lose to becomes the most OP thing "ever". Don't let others' butthurt impact your hobby experience.

They will either adapt, and become better players as a result, or not. If not, you're left with the decision, "do I find a new group with more challenging opponents, or do I play with kids' gloves?"

I never play with the kid gloves.

Here is my experience, maybe it will help.

Before the new Eldar codex dropped, I thought that the book was fine. My playstyle focused heavily on out maneuvering my opponent, and leveraging ranged fire power on weak points of the enemy with dakka serpents, dragons, etc, while dancing out of the way of enemy front line troops, it was tricky, and I almost always won on objectives. Then the new codex dropped, and basically took my playstyle and turbo charged it with the new bs4, laser lock, dirty cheap farseers, and battle focus. When I take out my new Eldar to the FLGS, its a blood bath for my opponents.

But I also understand that its not *fun* for my opponent when he watches his units flailing around trying to get a bead on the Eldar mobility while my new and improved shooting tears him apart. 40K is a game which requires 2 people, and both people need to have fun. Currently I feel like the new Eldar Codex, coupled with my current playstyle, is too powerful for the environement I play in, and I will reserve them for serious business.

On the other hand, I've come a long way as a player, I am comfortable with my list building skill, and tactics on the table, and I have several different armies to chose from and play. When I play casual games I will bring my Drakeless Slaanesh CSM, because I know that the list is solid, presents a real challenge for me to win with, and importantly I know that my opponent will probably have fun in the ensuing slug fest.

I don't resent my oppoents for not playing ultra competitive lists, nor do I encourage it because frankly ultra competive 6th edition is terrible and no fun for anybody. I want my opponents to have fun, and I respect that currently the Eldar are too powerful for that to really work for me. So I won't force people to battle my Space Elves, when I have other options.

Now the food for thought. The majority of people on Dakka and in gaming communities feel like Tau is significantly more powerful than Eldar.

I would finally like to touch on one point I brought up earlier. Begining players should still pick they army they like the best no matter what that army might be. Tau, CSM , whatever. a new player isn't a grizled 5+ year wargaming veteran who is comfortable with listbuilding, synergy, mathammer, and even able to anticipate powerful enemy combinations before facing them in battle. Skill and experience are still very important parts of 40K, far more important than army selection. All I am saying, is that if your army is too big of a fish for your local community during casual pick up games, maybe you should bring another fish.

EDIT: Also note that the above can apply to CSM with 2-3 Heldrakes, or Necrons with Wraith or Scythe Spam. Ultra competitive lists are fine, but if your opponents aren't into that scene, don't bring them! Maybe if your opponents have no fun playing against a riptide you could try playing without it... I dunno.

Haters gonna hate. For some people, whatever they lose to becomes the most OP thing "ever".

Sure and GK in last edition were just an ok codex and necrons are just ok now too. Please this has nothing to do with butthurt.
People say broadsides got nerfed ?they didn't interceptor and skyfire or being walking missle platforms made them better . Tau tank worse then before ? how many hammerheads did tau use before 6th ed , wasn't it one ? they use one now too , it costs more , but is a hell lot accurate .
Kroots no longer str 4 A2 ? Because melee is so op and important for tau and they dont have other faster tar pit units right ? And to make kroot worse in the dex , the new kroot sniper rifles help tau against +3sv MC . Not being able to kill LR ? Woe the poor tau , it is not like they run a fusion armed suit unit in every army or anything .

Makumba wrote:

Haters gonna hate. For some people, whatever they lose to becomes the most OP thing "ever".

Sure and GK in last edition were just an ok codex and necrons are just ok now too. Please this has nothing to do with butthurt.
People say broadsides got nerfed ?they didn't interceptor and skyfire or being walking missle platforms made them better . Tau tank worse then before ? how many hammerheads did tau use before 6th ed , wasn't it one ? they use one now too , it costs more , but is a hell lot accurate .
Kroots no longer str 4 A2 ? Because melee is so op and important for tau and they dont have other faster tar pit units right ? And to make kroot worse in the dex , the new kroot sniper rifles help tau against +3sv MC . Not being able to kill LR ? Woe the poor tau , it is not like they run a fusion armed suit unit in every army or anything .

Never said they are "just OK". They are GOOD. No army is invincible and all armies have weaknesses. The internet cries for a month or so every time a new codex is released. The good players figure out ways of overcoming new meta-dominating builds. Whining accomplishes nothing.

Naw wrote:

 LValx wrote:

 tanuvein wrote:
:
And none of those lists were posted as lists that can force ALL opponents to do nothing.

The idea is that each of those lists is extreme enough to make a good amount of opponents feel helpless.

Lots of examples where some armies just cannot handle other armies and will therefore end up feeling a bit helpless.

But Tau does not even have try to make such imbalanced lists as in your examples because they always come in that way.

In our group we had a complete newbie who started with Tau. He tables most opponents without trouble, even when forgetting some important rules. 6th edition was made for Tau. As has been said, they have a counter for everything except melee, which they can avoid most of the time and Riptides can take out weaker targets.

Yea? and I had such games when I was a newbie, with 5th edition tau, where they were made of distilled useless.
Against lousy players. anyone with half a brain mopped the floor with me till I got the ropes of it. some still do.

Tau got nothing overpowered, at all. we got some cool toys, some nice abilities, but not a single thing you can point out and say "this is too good"

Its not Tau's fault that half the players got dumbed down into playing one-trick-pony lists who have zero ability to adapt and try to get things done by brute force or by abusing holes in the metagame where there was simply no answer at all to their old tactics.

Show me ONE tau unit who is too powerful for it's cost and can be spammed. ONE.
Everything is either pricey, fragile, immobile or comes in tiny numbers, usually a combination of two.
Half the tau hate is because of things tau is blamed to have, that do not even exist!

No, there is no "mass interceptor skyfire"a riptide with both costs over 200 and a crisis with both got very little firepower, a broadside cant be both, nothing else can't have both. and guess what? skyfire is a 20 point upgrade, PER MODEL. cheap my ass, bringing more then 3 such models is shooting yourself in the leg.

No, there is no "everything ignores LoS and cover", there is only the SMS, an AP5 gun, most common units in the game won't even give a damn about ignoring cover, because the armor is better anyway.
Yes, you also got the seeker, but its a one-use item, and for it to ignore cover and LoS you need something to mark the target first, and that's not ignoring LoS.

No, there is no "entire army overwatch", only units within 6". freaking 6", its NOTHING. sure they can have just 1 model in range, but kill that damn 1 model that makes the chain, and the rest of his squad can't join overwatch. how godamn hard is it to kill 1 firewarrior?
They castle up and pack up so tightly? bring some freaking AOE guns and brake up the formation, that's what they are freaking FOR. and EVERY army has such guns! and guess what, most also got AP4 or better, AND ignore cover. they will MOW the fire warriors.

No leadership issues because of ethereal? you mean the guys who give extra killpoints and have effectifly no save? with mere T3?
Yea. if you can't kill these fragile guys, you are doing something wrong. its a multi-wound guardsmen in a squad of guardsman. just a squad, not a blob.


I will not claim that tau are a weak army, because they are not, not any more.
But get your act straight, tau have nothing that can't be dealt with, its just that the right tools are different, and the old meta got you to spam all the things that don't work well, and set aside all the things that brake tau down, you fail because the meta tools are directed against things tau don't have, and neglect the things Tau do have.

Sure, you bring alot of anti-MEQ, anti-TEQ and anti-horde, but tau does not fall under any of them. its a mid-point between horde and elite. bring the right freaking tools.
That's also why SoB is a hard match for tau, they naturally use things that are good against tau, because that's what they got. flamers, melta, heavy bolter.
Oh, look. EVERY imperial has it, they just don't pick it. they also got a huge variety of artillery pieces, all can blow up a tau gunline.
And outside IoM, except the codices who are outdated and don't function even when tau are removed from the equation, none lacks the tools to deal with tau.

Do I need to actually TELL people how to beat me now? because every time I see someone losing to me, or any other tau, and blames it on tau being overpowered, I usually also see an action he could do and missed that could turn the game, or his list was insultingly bad and not packing a single rational anti-tau unit.
And every time someone beats my tau, its not because I made any massive errors, its because he just brought a list that actually bothered bringing things that hurt me, and outplaying me from an equal standing. (or, if they use a more competitively optimized army then me, not slipping up when starting slightly above me.)

Its a well balanced codex, who is not above nor below the other 6th edition codices (bar a few units that just came out wrong. you know who I'm talking about.)

There is no way to make an all comers list better then the tau without creating bad matchs ups with other popular armies or having God blessed dice or playing necron. You would have to play big games , higher then 1500pts and have more LoS blocking terrain on tables , which almost never happens . You are right that there is no unbeatable armies , dice alone can make someone lose . But being bad in melee in an edition where tau can take ally and melee is nerved anyway seems like a realy weak weak side of a dex. The only thing a tau player has to learn , besides the normal aegis line formation , is how to set up against bale flamer armies . That is a rather low learning curve , which is by the way ok or would be ok , if the army wasn't so good. I didn't play the a lot in 5th ed , but I did see the advent of the paladin armies . Those weren't unbeatable too , but they did warp the eviroment a lot. They were borderline unfriendly to new players , removed many type of builds and forced people to rebuild their armies with "can I take out enough paladins fast" in mind . I would rather see 10 necron codex , then 1 tau one . And necron are technicly a worse match up for me then tau.

I'm not going to lie, I'm hating Tau with my Tyranid army at the moment. The skyray feths me over, firing 6 missiles at once turn 1 killing my 260pt flyrant straight away with a 130pt model.


With my swolves army seems fine though.


But I think the issue that OP has isn't balance or anything, it's that he's playing with whiners.

I feel like BoomWolf hit the nail on the head completely!!

 BoomWolf wrote:



Yea? and I had such games when I was a newbie, with 5th edition tau, where they were made of distilled useless.
Against lousy players. anyone with half a brain mopped the floor with me till I got the ropes of it. some still do.

Tau got nothing overpowered, at all. we got some cool toys, some nice abilities, but not a single thing you can point out and say "this is too good"

Spoiler:

Its not Tau's fault that half the players got dumbed down into playing one-trick-pony lists who have zero ability to adapt and try to get things done by brute force or by abusing holes in the metagame where there was simply no answer at all to their old tactics.

Show me ONE tau unit who is too powerful for it's cost and can be spammed. ONE.
Everything is either pricey, fragile, immobile or comes in tiny numbers, usually a combination of two.
Half the tau hate is because of things tau is blamed to have, that do not even exist!

No, there is no "mass interceptor skyfire"a riptide with both costs over 200 and a crisis with both got very little firepower, a broadside cant be both, nothing else can't have both. and guess what? skyfire is a 20 point upgrade, PER MODEL. cheap my ass, bringing more then 3 such models is shooting yourself in the leg.

No, there is no "everything ignores LoS and cover", there is only the SMS, an AP5 gun, most common units in the game won't even give a damn about ignoring cover, because the armor is better anyway.
Yes, you also got the seeker, but its a one-use item, and for it to ignore cover and LoS you need something to mark the target first, and that's not ignoring LoS.

No, there is no "entire army overwatch", only units within 6". freaking 6", its NOTHING. sure they can have just 1 model in range, but kill that damn 1 model that makes the chain, and the rest of his squad can't join overwatch. how godamn hard is it to kill 1 firewarrior?
They castle up and pack up so tightly? bring some freaking AOE guns and brake up the formation, that's what they are freaking FOR. and EVERY army has such guns! and guess what, most also got AP4 or better, AND ignore cover. they will MOW the fire warriors.

No leadership issues because of ethereal? you mean the guys who give extra killpoints and have effectifly no save? with mere T3?
Yea. if you can't kill these fragile guys, you are doing something wrong. its a multi-wound guardsmen in a squad of guardsman. just a squad, not a blob.


I will not claim that tau are a weak army, because they are not, not any more.
But get your act straight, tau have nothing that can't be dealt with, its just that the right tools are different, and the old meta got you to spam all the things that don't work well, and set aside all the things that brake tau down, you fail because the meta tools are directed against things tau don't have, and neglect the things Tau do have.

Sure, you bring alot of anti-MEQ, anti-TEQ and anti-horde, but tau does not fall under any of them. its a mid-point between horde and elite. bring the right freaking tools.
That's also why SoB is a hard match for tau, they naturally use things that are good against tau, because that's what they got. flamers, melta, heavy bolter.
Oh, look. EVERY imperial has it, they just don't pick it. they also got a huge variety of artillery pieces, all can blow up a tau gunline.
And outside IoM, except the codices who are outdated and don't function even when tau are removed from the equation, none lacks the tools to deal with tau.

Do I need to actually TELL people how to beat me now? because every time I see someone losing to me, or any other tau, and blames it on tau being overpowered, I usually also see an action he could do and missed that could turn the game, or his list was insultingly bad and not packing a single rational anti-tau unit.
And every time someone beats my tau, its not because I made any massive errors, its because he just brought a list that actually bothered bringing things that hurt me, and outplaying me from an equal standing. (or, if they use a more competitively optimized army then me, not slipping up when starting slightly above me.)

Its a well balanced codex, who is not above nor below the other 6th edition codices (bar a few units that just came out wrong. you know who I'm talking about.)

+1 Exalted. I tried to say it, you did. Awesome post, excellent points /thread for Tau being OP

Not impressed. Arguments based on the idea that nobody brings Sv5+ models and that tau players can't figure out how to deploy units to take advantage of 6" overlapping overwatch, or that the definition of overpowered is "that unit you spam" isn't terribly convincing.

The arguments being made are assuming a brain-dead tau player with no player skill. Against anybody reasonably competent, they have the ability to shut down their opponent's ability to actually play the game while they're playing the game.

And that's what's important. It's not merely a matter of tau being a powerful army. It's they way they deploy their power that everybody is complaining about.

Because, let's say that everything boomwolf said is true 100%, and that tau isn't an overpowered army at all. That still doesn't make them an army worth pulling out your miniatures to play a game against. Well, attempt to play, rather...

 Ailaros wrote:
Not impressed. Arguments based on the idea that nobody brings Sv5+ models and that tau players can't figure out how to deploy units to take advantage of 6" overlapping overwatch, or that the definition of overpowered is "that unit you spam" isn't terribly convincing.

The arguments being made are assuming a brain-dead tau player with no player skill. Against anybody reasonably competent, they have the ability to shut down their opponent's ability to actually play the game while they're playing the game.

And that's what's important. It's not merely a matter of tau being a powerful army. It's they way they deploy their power that everybody is complaining about.

Because, let's say that everything boomwolf said is true 100%, and that tau isn't an overpowered army at all. That still doesn't make them an army worth pulling out your miniatures to play a game against. Well, attempt to play, rather...

In how many threads are you going to make the same tired argument? You're getting worse than Melissa and her PA attacks in 5th Ed. Ok, we all get that you think Tau take away your ability to play the game. Tau struggle with range outside their heavy slots and suffer from low toughness and poor saves. Figure something out.

 Purifier wrote:

I've played quite a lot of games against Tau and I still cannot think of a reliable counter to an ADL gunline.

I'll give you a hint. It starts with "M" and ends with "Anticores". Ally one in with IG.

Or a thunderfire, or a heavy flamer, or an airplane...do I need to keep going?

 Ailaros wrote:
Not impressed. Arguments based on the idea that nobody brings Sv5+ models and that tau players can't figure out how to deploy units to take advantage of 6" overlapping overwatch, or that the definition of overpowered is "that unit you spam" isn't terribly convincing.

The arguments being made are assuming a brain-dead tau player with no player skill. Against anybody reasonably competent, they have the ability to shut down their opponent's ability to actually play the game while they're playing the game.

And that's what's important. It's not merely a matter of tau being a powerful army. It's they way they deploy their power that everybody is complaining about.

Because, let's say that everything boomwolf said is true 100%, and that tau isn't an overpowered army at all. That still doesn't make them an army worth pulling out your miniatures to play a game against. Well, attempt to play, rather...

And other guys dont shut down my ability to play?
Leafblower lists don't blow you off the board?
Tyranids dont have a hard against DE with all their poison weapons?
Necrons dont by having the guys i just killed get back up and have leadership 10 ALL AROUND?
Heldrakes dont by having a str 6 ap3 template weapon that can be placed 24 inches?
Deamons dont have the warpstorm table that, on a double 6 will kill your psyker?

Tau armies that don't spam certain non-troop units are fine and somewhat fun to play against. However, castled-up missile-side spam is obnoxious, especially when used with a riptide or two.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 Ailaros wrote:
Not impressed. Arguments based on the idea that nobody brings Sv5+ models and that tau players can't figure out how to deploy units to take advantage of 6" overlapping overwatch, or that the definition of overpowered is "that unit you spam" isn't terribly convincing.

The arguments being made are assuming a brain-dead tau player with no player skill. Against anybody reasonably competent, they have the ability to shut down their opponent's ability to actually play the game while they're playing the game.

And that's what's important. It's not merely a matter of tau being a powerful army. It's they way they deploy their power that everybody is complaining about.

Because, let's say that everything boomwolf said is true 100%, and that tau isn't an overpowered army at all. That still doesn't make them an army worth pulling out your miniatures to play a game against. Well, attempt to play, rather...

And other guys dont shut down my ability to play?
Leafblower lists don't blow you off the board?
Tyranids dont have a hard against DE with all their poison weapons?
Necrons dont by having the guys i just killed get back up and have leadership 10 ALL AROUND?
Heldrakes dont by having a str 6 ap3 template weapon that can be placed 24 inches?
Deamons dont have the warpstorm table that, on a double 6 will kill your psyker?

Actually I wouldn't say Nids vs DE. I would say Nids v GK actually. Poison seems fine and all for killing those darn MC except most of them still have 2+ and 3+ saves in comparison to GK that can auto-pass their sword's psyker test to instant kill.
I also wouldn't use the Daemon warpstorm table. Double 6 is more nasty. It is 2d6+4 (I believe) of any of the 4 troops deepstruck wherever. 5 and 6 is the combo for the psyker. Except it is a 3d6 ld test so half of the time it will fail (against the majority of psykers that tend to have ld10). Also you are just as likely to get those as rolls that make you roll Daemonic Instability for every single unit on the map as well as one that makes you daemonic instability one of your hqs on a 3d6.

That being said, Tau aren't the only army that autostomps others in a rather unfair way. Heck, if you want a hopeless match, just think of daemons v GK before the new daemon codex. Heck, even after the daemon codex came out watch a match between these two.