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Libby with force axe and termie armour.
2+ save means he cant cut through the armour and the axe means your ignoring his.

Draigo will be strength 10 vs Mephiston so he would have an easier time against him. But Draigo is a no go vs Abby.

Whirlwinds... AP 2?

Plasmas, loads of plasmas.

Not sure im doing this right but im sure someone will point it out to me. wouldnt a grey knight grand master with hammer, Rad grenades, psy-out and brain minds flatten mephiston!!

Rad takes makes him t5, psy-out makes him i1, brain mines makes him unable to do anything. Then either hammerhand for instant death or force weapon instant death. Not much meph can do about it either, well of course yoy have to catch him first.

What about a dreadknight? For Meph anyway that solves the mobility issue.

 FinkleLord wrote:
Draigo will be strength 10 vs Mephiston so he would have an easier time against him. But Draigo is a no go vs Abby.

Draigo would likely stalemate Mephiston, and they would just tie each other up given they both have 2+ saves, and their weapons are AP3.

for abbadon maybe a vindicaire?

joe_deman wrote:
for abbadon maybe a vindicaire?

Not by himself. Dropping his invulnerable save will help bring him down, but you'd need other things to finish him off in an efficient manner.

Whirlwinds are S5 AP4 and aren't an answer to either. I imagine you meant the vindicator.

The Vindicator will do okay against Abaddon and his friends, as he's slow, so will either deep strike or he will be in a Land Raider. The vindicator's primary role here will be killing his bodyguard. I assume you are familiar with dealing terminator death stars in Land Raiders, and he's just a slightly tougher version of that. When he deep stikes, he and his body guard will be in perfect vindicator smashing formation, just be careful his terminator bodyguards aren't equipped with combi-meltas and wreck your vindicator. Overall, standard anti-deathstar tactics apply; use screens/sacrificial units, box them in with rhinos and pound them with long ranged AP2 firepower.

The Vindicator will be pretty much useless against Mephiston. Given his speed he will swoop out from behind some cover and just beat the hell out of it in one turn. Best bet against meph is 2+ save EW characters (Calgar, Lysander, Moloc, Sevrin Loth with biomancy...etc) TH/SS terminators and plasma. Particularly drop pod sternguard with combi-plasma. 5 Sternguard with combi-plasma coming out of a drop pod double tapping will typically kill him. Increase that to 8 sternies and you've got a dead Mephy. Mephiston is built to kill vehicles, monstrous creatures and anything in 3+ or worse armor...and he is VERY good at it. Just make sure you don't have any juicy targets available for him to take advantage of.

Stop playing SM and get Deathstrike Launchers. It's the only way.

 Exergy wrote:

 RavenGuard55 wrote:
Sorry in advance for not knowing, but is Abaddon an EW? I don't know his stat line.

just stop trying to kill him in combat. You can outwiegh him with a bunch of TH/SS attacks or use a super beast like the swarmlord but basically he is going to crush most any IC you throw at him. You feed abby champions to keep him in combat longer while killing his squad, then hope to shoot him when he is alone. Shooting at him when he has 35 ablative wounds is a bad idea, as he might just jump to another unit.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but even if any CSM character/champion is FORCED to issue a challenge (Abaddon included), whenever you have 2 or more such models in a unit the CSM player is able to decide which one will issue/accept a challenge.
Thus he can decide to sacrifice the other character to allow Abaddon to wipe out your unit (as it's difficult to find a unit able to withstand so many AP2/AP3 attacks). And if the other character isn't just a standard Aspiring Champion it will be tough to kill nevertheless, so he may survive more than one turn.

 RavenGuard55 wrote:
So lots of plasma shots on Abaddon's unit?

if his unit is terminators. Many people are putting abby in a unit of 35 cultists. Using plasma on them is a total waste.

Mephiston is piss easy to kill. My archon with huskblade and shadow field has killed him in 3/3 challenges. Abbadon is tougher but generally surrounding him with stuff with storm shields and armour piercing weapons will kill him. I usually bog him down with something. A favourite tactic is to charge him with a beast pack, challenge him with a beastmaster (who he obviously will kill) then hit and run out of combat and unleash hell!

I ran Mephiston up until recently. Stick 10 tac terminators on him and he is gone in 2 turns max. Lysander in particular has been tough to counter.

Ork Marine wrote:
Whirlwinds. They are a cheap, easy way to dock off 1 or 2 of wounds of an hq. They are AP 2 and always wound on a 2+. It is really effective also if Mephiston decides to hide behind cover because the blast can be anti cover. They can be used as a distraction unit, dividing the oppositions heavy fire away from the more valuable stuff.

errr no, this so isnt a whirlwind unless darkangels added some other form of OP garbage to it

first of all on subject of abbadon, he has no grenades. camp cover and make sure every sargent has some form of ap2 cc weapon, if abbadon chrges you he charges through cover and becomes I1 you are unlikely to kill him with your sargent but this will make abbadon more selective about who he charges as he is almost garunteed to be hurt while doing it.

never faced mephiston all i know is that he headbutts his way through landraiders but cant do anything about terminators which seems SO WRONG!!

BaconUprising wrote:
Mephiston is piss easy to kill. My archon with huskblade and shadow field has killed him in 3/3 challenges. Abbadon is tougher but generally surrounding him with stuff with storm shields and armour piercing weapons will kill him. I usually bog him down with something. A favourite tactic is to charge him with a beast pack, challenge him with a beastmaster (who he obviously will kill) then hit and run out of combat and unleash hell!

So what do you do when the Champion in Abaddon's unit accepts the challenge and Abaddon rips your beast pack a new one?

BaconUprising wrote:
My archon with huskblade and shadow field has killed him in 3/3 challenges

That sounds like Mephiston needs a new plan

 Blackskull wrote:

first of all on subject of abbadon, he has no grenades. camp cover and make sure every sargent has some form of ap2 cc weapon, if abbadon chrges you he charges through cover and becomes I1 you are unlikely to kill him with your sargent but this will make abbadon more selective about who he charges as he is almost garunteed to be hurt while doing it.

It is very likey that Abaddon will run attached to a unit.
Most of the time when it comes to allocating wounds there will be more than one model in base contact with a given enemy model. Hence it seems very easy to me to hide Abaddon until I1, if needed.

Diablix wrote:

 Blackskull wrote:

first of all on subject of abbadon, he has no grenades. camp cover and make sure every sargent has some form of ap2 cc weapon, if abbadon chrges you he charges through cover and becomes I1 you are unlikely to kill him with your sargent but this will make abbadon more selective about who he charges as he is almost garunteed to be hurt while doing it.

It is very likey that Abaddon will run attached to a unit.
Most of the time when it comes to allocating wounds there will be more than one model in base contact with a given enemy model. Hence it seems very easy to me to hide Abaddon until I1, if needed.

yes, or if the chaos player has an aspring champion in the unit with abby and he will have no problems
Further equiping all of your sergeants with ap2 cc weapons is expensive, and if the aspring champion with abby has grenades(often the case) he will be striking before all the AP2 weapon goodness in most armies. If he is rocking a lightning claw and hatred (also very likely) then most sergeants are going to be dead before they swing if they accept the challenge(and cant fight if they dont) so all those 15-25 point ap2 weapons went to no use.

Lysander+TH/SS terminators > Mephiston.
They will outnumber him completely then laugh at his lack of an invulnerable save.

 Satan's Little Helper wrote:
Lysander+TH/SS terminators > Mephiston.
They will outnumber him completely then laugh at his lack of an invulnerable save.

They're also 200 points more expensive and slow as a brick compared to Mephiston.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Satan's Little Helper wrote:
Lysander+TH/SS terminators > Mephiston.
They will outnumber him completely then laugh at his lack of an invulnerable save.

They're also 200 points more expensive and slow as a brick compared to Mephiston.

2nded.

He will laugh at them from the other side of the board while killing easier units

The chaos player usually puts abby in a 3 man termie squad in a land raider. That should be easy enough to counter with a sternguard with meltas to pop the landie and plasmas to clean up the termies and put him on his own. I haven't been a fan of plasma until recently. I don't like the idea of killing my marines all on their own. But I've played about 5 games now using alot of plasma and have yet to lose a single guy or vehicle for that matter. Thanks for all the help.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

BaconUprising wrote:
Mephiston is piss easy to kill. My archon with huskblade and shadow field has killed him in 3/3 challenges. Abbadon is tougher but generally surrounding him with stuff with storm shields and armour piercing weapons will kill him. I usually bog him down with something. A favourite tactic is to charge him with a beast pack, challenge him with a beastmaster (who he obviously will kill) then hit and run out of combat and unleash hell!

So what do you do when the Champion in Abaddon's unit accepts the challenge and Abaddon rips your beast pack a new one?

i usually encounter Abby with 3 man termies.

 RavenGuard55 wrote:
The chaos player usually puts abby in a 3 man termie squad in a land raider. That should be easy enough to counter with a sternguard with meltas to pop the landie and plasmas to clean up the termies and put him on his own. I haven't been a fan of plasma until recently. I don't like the idea of killing my marines all on their own. But I've played about 5 games now using alot of plasma and have yet to lose a single guy or vehicle for that matter. Thanks for all the help.

if you find him in that kind of unit, then yes he is very easy to deal with. 700 points of easy mode.

I run Abaddon up the field in a squad of 35 cultists, hiding in cover and behind my LR is possible.

Mephiston is probably going to be flying around behind a rhino or something until he wants to paste a unit, so that's a thing. Shooting him with AP2 works all fine and dany as everyone has said, but as a SM player, that means you either take a plasma-spam command squad w/a las-plas razorback (tons of points to counter 1 thing), or rely on combat-squad plasma dude to do the job. Assault cannons can also work wonders for you. bunch of attacks + rending can do the job quite handily.
I'd shy away from demolisher cannons, as they won't ID... wait a sec.... hmmmmm..... Take a libby of your own and hope for enfeeble? drop mephy to t5 and smack him with a vindicator maybe? If a dude uses the same thing all the time, and you have trouble with it, there is no shame in taking a hard counter and turning it toa more-red paste/mist. Also, take advantage of the fact that your Godhammers have 12 capacity. TH/SS + lysander in one of those. if he runs away, hit him with lascannons/multimelta. If he doesn't, do that anyway and mush him with hammers.

Abaddon is trickier, depending on how he is being run. If he is footslogging with cultists, well... kill him with things that kill cultists. Or, if your dice like rolling 6's to hit, take a 10 man scout squad armed with snipers, possibly with tellion. Shoot the unit with sniper rifles, and allocate any precisions on abby.

If he is with a PA blob, then...well... vindicators? Unfortunately, if you're in vindicator range, he'll soon be in 'you don't get that vindicator anymore' range.

If you use GK's, then literally anything from them can counter mephiston. psycannons will spell his death rather quickly, and a unit of halberd dudes will hit him at the same time, and likely get a wound through killing him. Against Abby, well, he is what he is. A murderous beatstick that can hide in a unit.

It seems as though Abaddon is a far deadlier HQ than Mephiston. After all of the comments, I'm a lot less scared of Mephiston. He's our BA player's go-to HQ and he thinks he's unstoppable. I know if I can kill him I can break his army. As everyone said, Abaddon is a different story. I guess next time I play against him I'll try lots of plasma and make him fail the invulnerable saves. I guess like anything else in the game that's that strong, weight of fire will eventually bring it down.

I never use Mephiston anymore. There are a few units he is awesome against, but the probability of running into those is just not high enough.