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I've now played a dozen games or so with my lovely new White Scars army - some of the games have been chronicled in the Battle Reports forum (there's a link to the latest report in my signature). All the battles have been in the region of 1,000 and 1,250 points, and against a variety of opponents including Space Marines, Tau, Imperial Guard, Eldar, Chaos Daemons and Chaos Space Marines.

Here are the units I've been using so far:



I've enjoyed all of the games I've played, and I've also get a much better insight into a bike army's strengths and weaknesses. The strengths are roughly what you'd expect - incredible speed, high flexibility, the ability to engage the enemy on your terms, great short range firepower, and good survivability on an individual model basis.

I knew some of the weaknesses when I started too - in particular the low model count and inability to climb stairs! However, another problem has now become apparent as my opponents have become used to playing me - and it's to do with firepower heavy armies. Simply put they are able to start hurting me right from turn 1 - and I can't respond. Particularly against the Imperial Guard, Eldar and and Tau, it's often turn 2 or 3 before I've got into my optimal range (for either short range firepower or close combat) - and by then I've often take 50% casualties or worse. My only long-ranged firepower is on my land speeder typhoons - which are exceptionally fragile, and lack effectiveness against some prime targets (such as heavy tanks and infantry heavy weapon squads in decent cover).

What I'd like to know is what others think I should be adding to this army to fill the long range fire gap, and why? In particular don't want to compromise the theme of my army - which means that whatever is added needs to be able to mobile firepower both on a tactical (in game) level and on a strategic (background) level.

Any suggestions please Dakka?

I don't know if this is helpful to you but I usually find it best to turbo boost 1.0001" away from the gunline turn 1 and take my beating. Then I get to shoot then charge turn 2. Against IG and Tau this works out fairly well (I play ravenwing though so I get Hit and Run).

Eldar are a different beast. Are you talking about a grav tank army or a footdar horde or both. These are totally different armies.

If the problem is just GEQ then I would recommend adding some flamers in some of the squads. It depends highly on whether you are running RW or SM bikes though.

I'm just a noob SM player myself, but it seems like any heavy firepower is going to go against the flavor of your list. you're talking about things like tanks, TFCs and dev squads, all of which are functionally immobile for the game (if they want to shoot effectively, at least). air power is another option, of course, but since you specifically mention turn 1 shooting, those aren't going to help you at all.

you could add in a TFC, 2 dreadnoughts (or marines of some flavor) and 3 drop pods. start the TFC on the table in cover somewhere and leave it's pod empty. have the other two pods come in on turn 1 and land in the midst of your enemy. the content of those pods will serve as sacrificial units to keep the enemy from shooting your bikes as move up. the pods themselves can also serve to block LOS to your bikes. this is a fair chunk of points, of course, so you'd have to dump some bikes or move up to bigger games. it'd fit with the white scares fluff, though.

If you want to keep the feel of your army, predators? They are vehicles, granted not very fast, but it's another wheeled vehicle so no models with the feet on the ground,

OR, if you want to go HARDCORE mode, ally with DA, the scouts you usually take are now "DA" scouts so you have the obligatory troop choice and get the plasma skimmer they have. Just be sure to paint it white

What about drop pods? That will let you play a fast attacking style and you can bring melta guns right to your enemies tanks. Plus it increases the number of targets that your opponent needs to deal with right away.

 TheDraconicLord wrote:
If you want to keep the feel of your army, predators? They are vehicles, granted not very fast, but it's another wheeled vehicle so no models with the feet on the ground,

OR, if you want to go HARDCORE mode, ally with DA, the scouts you usually take are now "DA" scouts so you have the obligatory troop choice and get the plasma skimmer they have. Just be sure to paint it white

Predators don't fit the "fast" theme IMO, but the DA allies is an interesting, if misguided, idea. The LS vengeance is a special flavor of crap since it can very easily overheat itself to death over the course of a game, and the enemy doesn't need any help killing an AV10 2HP speeder.

- You could go the DA route, get some black knights, or the flyer, or the aforementioned vengeance....but I honestly don't think this is going to be a great buy.
- If you have some fast attack slots left Storm Talons and attack bikes fit the theme and are excellent units. Predators and vindicators are a "slower" thematic choice. A drop pod dread is okay and sternguard are excellent if you don't mind the pods encroaching on your theme.
- BA allies is another choice, as it allows a scoring assault squad, or the scouts as troops. It also allows a fast baal predator or vindicator and a drop podded furioso with heavy flamer/frag cannon....which is pretty solid for melting some faces.
- Allied guard maybe? A vendetta/veteran force suits the theme to some degree and brings some longer ranged punch....although it might show up late.

BA allies seems to be what you are looking for, all their tanks are fast and can deliver just as heavy a punch as normal SM tanks. A vindi can keep up with the rest of the army and give what you need, a baal pred (flamers or dakka either works) outflanking or just zooming up can deal with gunlines and draw fire away from your bikes and still survive unless they really want it dead but then again that will happen with everything

A stormraven with a talon escort can help you alot.

If you're considering BA allies, then definitely go with a couple of Baals. Scout and Fast means they're right up in your opponent's face from the beginning - you may get lucky and get a couple of templates off. More likely, they'll be shot to pieces - BUT that means the rest of your force has gone relatively unmolested. And that's what we're aiming for here, right...?

The jump pack assault troops don't seem like they'd fit the theme too much, mind. I'd be more tempted to take them in a Rhino or Razorback instead for this army.

 Super Ready wrote:
The jump pack assault troops don't seem like they'd fit the theme too much, mind. I'd be more tempted to take them in a Rhino or Razorback instead for this army.

I disagree. I could see the jump packs hurtling alongside the bikes, everyone fighting to be first to the fray. It's a vanguard army, and jump packs fit that nicely.

Flyers.
Stormravens and Stormtalons.
plenty of firepower there, and fast enough for the theme.

 Purifier wrote:
I disagree. I could see the jump packs hurtling alongside the bikes, everyone fighting to be first to the fray. It's a vanguard army, and jump packs fit that nicely.

Fair enough, to each their own I suppose, and I do see where you're coming from.

It has just occurred to me, though - with Allies, you'd only be able to take *one* Baal. Perhaps that and another vanilla Predator or a Razorback then...

BA Allies aren't a bad idea, but stay away from Baal predators if you want to stay fluffy - those are a Blood Angels (and successors) only vehicle.

I second the drop pod idea, and the Storm Talon idea. Both fit the White Scars very well.

What about whirlwinds? They aren't on a "fast" chassis as such, but the have long range to make up for that, and are noted in the background as rapid-response artillery, being able to keep up with fast moving Marine armour columns.

They won't help so much with the heavy vehicles, but they will certainly help against guardsmen in cover.

Take the DA whirlwinds, or wait until the new SM codex comes out. Not worth it till then.

ninjafiredragon wrote:
Take the DA whirlwinds, or wait until the new SM codex comes out. Not worth it till then.

That might be a nice way of doing things actually. You could even bring a DA captain with Black Knight entourage to beef up your bike based carnage.

id also go BA. a baal with either the flamers or more likely AS C and HB, the pred AC/LC a librarian with JP for some fast moving prescience that way the whole way down the board they have things other than just the bikes to worry about.

One thing not mentioned is scout bikes. Take a C-melta on the sarge and the 3xAGLs, deploy aggressively and cause some disruption. Sure, they might get wiped out first turn, but should give the rest of your army the time they need to get into position.

There are a lot of good ideas in this thread, but each one is going to stretch your concept a little. Personally, I think tanks go well with bikes. I like the concept of assault marines accompanying an armored spearhead, screened by a bike force. Thematically I also love the fast, mobile, element of the army starting on the table, and the rest screaming down from orbit in drop pods. It feels right, for space marines.

Adding allies gives you more options, not that you need them, but they are there if you want them. Loyal imperial forces would not do something as heretical as seek out the aid if the Eldar. But if you winning the battle would fit their schemes, a fire prism, wave serpent, or some of their bikes might show up at the battlefield to assist you for the battle.

Wow, lots of different suggestions, thanks everyone!

ansacs, I will often turbo-boost towards the enemy (using the whole shoot-the-assaulters, assault-the-shooters principle), however with a Vanguard Strike or (especially) Hammer and Anvil deployment I often can't get to them in one turn. Add in their first turn, a need to deploy in cover, casualties from the front of the unit and failed charges, and I've sometimes not reached them until turn 3 - by which point I've taken over 50% casualties and simply can't kill enough with what's left :(

Some people have mentioned assault squads and scout bikes. I certainly intend to acquire some of each at some point - the assault troops would be good, and if scout bikers aren't pure White Scars flavour, nothing is! At the same time i'm faced with a problem for these units - Fast Attack slots. When added to land speeders and attack bikes, my FA becomes very crowded, very quickly. Regarding the scout bikes, it it better to scout or out-flank with them? Out-flanking means they aren't there from turn 1 - but on the other hand they do have a better chance of hitting enemy vehicles' rear armour...

Dreadnoughts are unofrtunately right out - the White Scars background very clearly states they don't use them or devastators. While the TFC is not mentioned, I feel that it's in the same category as the devastators - it's simply too slow to keep up! Drop-pods might work, but they don't really fit with the kind of force I'm looking to create. While I can imagine the initial assault for WS being via drop-pod, I wanted more of a long-term force, making hit-and-run attacks behind enemy lines and ripping their logistics network to shreds before moving in for the kill

Allies seems to be one of the main suggestions - I'm not totally opposed to the idea, but I think I'd still want them to feel like White Scars. Perhaps I could sub in BA or DA allies, and paint them up in a different colour scheme to reflect a WS successor chapter? Blood Angels doing this might not be bad, I certainly like the idea of a fast predator or vindicator!

Vehicles - whether tanks or flyers - might well be what I'm looking for. I like the idea of a Whirlwind - it can keep up with a bike column on a strategic level, and I'd forgotten that it can still move and fire (albeit not 12") in the game. It is also the best SM tank for ambushes, due to not needing line of sight. That might work out very well indeed... Predators also have the speed to keep up on the strategic scale, unfortunately they're too slow on the battlefield. the background says that the White Scars do use them, but often strip them down by leaving out the sponsons for greater speed. Unfortunately I can't see a single autocannon or TL-lascannon being worth it :( If predators had a decent turret weapon it would be a different matter though.

Flyers would fit perfectly into the White Scars theme - unfortunately both SM flyers are hideous! I must admit though that I've been thinking about alternate models for a Storm Talon - perhaps the Nephilim would make an acceptable substitute?

So you are playing C:SM. DA have much less problem with this due to the 12" scout move they all get.

Feel free to use allies as part of your chapter as there are no official white scars codex per se and in many ways I believe allied dexs actually work better for representing non dex chapters. Actually alot of the white scars players seem to use the DA codex as it has a more rounded bike/fast moving force in many ways. The only exception being flyers where the DA have no decent flyers while SM have relatively decent flyers.

The nephilim to storm raven would be a nice conversion. The nephilim is a great model that deserves far more board time than its rules give it. Adding a couple of those might help some.

There's no need to change the codex your using, or take allies. Just add a Thunder Fire cannon to your list.

It will cause squishy armies (Tau, Eldar IG) to stay in their transports, or it will eat them alive with the ignore cover shot. It doesn't need to "Keep up" when it has the range to reach across the board.

Ralis wrote:
There's no need to change the codex your using, or take allies. Just add a Thunder Fire cannon to your list.

It will cause squishy armies (Tau, Eldar IG) to stay in their transports, or it will eat them alive with the ignore cover shot. It doesn't need to "Keep up" when it has the range to reach across the board.

Hedgehog's second post clarified that slow things like dreadnoughts and TFCs were out for not fitting the fast moving theme of the force.

I can feel your pain. I'm putting together an Imperial Fist bike themed army (8th Co-Assault) but I have decided to bring in 2 predators and a Storm Talon. That gives me some good long range firepower. I almost went White Scars myself, but I've wanted an Imperial Fist army since I first laid eyes on them in a WD back in 1999.

 Valhalla130 wrote:
I can feel your pain. I'm putting together an Imperial Fist bike themed army (8th Co-Assault) but I have decided to bring in 2 predators and a Storm Talon. That gives me some good long range firepower. I almost went White Scars myself, but I've wanted an Imperial Fist army since I first laid eyes on them in a WD back in 1999.

Cool - I can imagine a yellow bike horde would look awesome! Any chance of pictures and battle reports?

Tactical Squads in RB's provide mobile cover for your bike units, and can add the much needed LC's to your list.

T1 everything moves forward 12"
T2 Bikes TB out from behind the smoldering wrecks of the RB's (LOL), Any RB's that survive Disembark their troops, preferably onto objectives, and shoot their TL LC's while the bikes TB towards the enemy.
T3 Profit.

Guys, I don't believe the OP is specifically looking for strong units for a traditional force. Suggesting heavy things is irrelevant because he has a THEMATIC army. While I don't ever run an army over 1k without about 2 preds, its not gonna work for a fast bike army.

That said, Flyers seem the fluffiest way to go. Soaring in, shooting the heavy stuff and clearing the way for your bikes makes the most sense to me. I am fairly certain that White Scars use rhinos and drop pods with troops, but if you choose not to use them you may have some serious weaknesses to overcome. Best of luck!

 Hedgehog wrote:

 Valhalla130 wrote:
I can feel your pain. I'm putting together an Imperial Fist bike themed army (8th Co-Assault) but I have decided to bring in 2 predators and a Storm Talon. That gives me some good long range firepower. I almost went White Scars myself, but I've wanted an Imperial Fist army since I first laid eyes on them in a WD back in 1999.

Cool - I can imagine a yellow bike horde would look awesome! Any chance of pictures and battle reports?

Sure. When I paint more than one model and find a game to play. Lol.

 Valhalla130 wrote:

 Hedgehog wrote:

 Valhalla130 wrote:
I can feel your pain. I'm putting together an Imperial Fist bike themed army (8th Co-Assault) but I have decided to bring in 2 predators and a Storm Talon. That gives me some good long range firepower. I almost went White Scars myself, but I've wanted an Imperial Fist army since I first laid eyes on them in a WD back in 1999.

Cool - I can imagine a yellow bike horde would look awesome! Any chance of pictures and battle reports?

Sure. When I paint more than one model and find a game to play. Lol.

That's what I thought ten months ago

The whirlwind is next on my build list, I'll give that a try and see what develops from there. I'm also excited by the rumours of a new SM codex and White Scars mini-dex - but this also means I can't know for sure exactly what is going to be available in the near future. Will just have to see...

Typhoon missile launchers with multimeltas aren't good enough???

There is a way that you can run your WS effectivly untill the new codex comes out run the DA ravenwing list and rules just have them painted white.