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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/08 02:37:24
Subject: Necrons v AP 2
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One Canoptek Scarab in a Swarm
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Just curious as to what Necron players use to counter TEQ. It seems like a lot of people are leaving out our low AP stuff (doomsday arc, Heavy destroyers, etc.). I ask after having a heck of a time trying to take out a Hive Tyrant with an armored shell in my last game,
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just realized that this was posted in Lists and maybe should have been put in tactics. If so, my bad.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/07/08 02:58:01
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/08 06:36:55
Subject: Necrons v AP 2
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Shunting Grey Knight Interceptor
Finland
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Warscythe? Just flood it with saving throws, it has to fail at some point (Annihilation barges)? Scarabs (Entropic strike, not sure IIRC it works same way as against vehicles, might be wrong, if so, ignore this.)? Allied paladins (lol).
It shouldnt be a problem unless tyrant has iron arm. Then you are screwed.
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2013 Wins/Losses in Tournaments
Necrons (with various allies ): 9/3 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/08 06:45:45
Subject: Necrons v AP 2
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Fresh-Faced New User
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2 options MSS or wraiths or hells both just for a giggle
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/08 09:01:38
Subject: Necrons v AP 2
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On a Canoptek Spyder's Waiting List
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Get your wraith wing into CC on the charge, weight of dice will give you enough rends to put a dent in some termies. If it's paladins, you should probably just ignore them if they aren't shooty Imo, along with THSS termies. Just keep positioning in mind, and remember weight of dice is one of the easiest ways to deal with a 2+ IME
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/08 10:18:58
Subject: Necrons v AP 2
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Boom! Leman Russ Commander
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If you are willing to go with stuff from Forge World, IA12 has the answers.
Tesseract Ark, Heat Cannon Pylons and Night Shroud Bombers are good against TEQ at range.
I've found against CC though, the humble Charnel Scarab is made for taking out TEQ. That many rending attacks have helped me chew through many tough units. TEQ and Wraithguard.
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Mr Mystery wrote:Suffice to say, if any of this is actually true, then clearly Elvis is hiding behind my left testicle, and Lord Lucan behind the right. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/08 11:11:58
Subject: Re:Necrons v AP 2
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Chalice-Wielding Sanguinary High Priest
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Entropic Strike should do the trick. A C'tan will do wonders against TEQ, but would be too risky against a Tyrant for me... so I'd say Scarabs are the better option there... though they're likely to bite the dust as a result.
If I remember rightly, you only need a *hit* to make the roll and not a wound - meaning you can strip the save off even an Iron Arm Tyrant and then open up with stuff that can wound it.
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"Hard pressed on my right. My centre is yielding. Impossible to manoeuvre. Situation excellent. I am attacking." - General Ferdinand Foch |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/08 11:13:09
Subject: Necrons v AP 2
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Trazyn's Museum Curator
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About entropic strike...you do realize that it only happens after the model takes an unsaved wound, right? So against termies it's useless. Against riptides and paladins, not so useless.
Against vehicles it's easier. All you have to do is hit and roll higher and roll a 4+ for the strike to work.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/07/08 11:13:59
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/08 11:35:51
Subject: Re:Necrons v AP 2
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On a Canoptek Spyder's Waiting List
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Super Ready wrote:Entropic Strike should do the trick. A C'tan will do wonders against TEQ, but would be too risky against a Tyrant for me... so I'd say Scarabs are the better option there... though they're likely to bite the dust as a result.
If I remember rightly, you only need a *hit* to make the roll and not a wound - meaning you can strip the save off even an Iron Arm Tyrant and then open up with stuff that can wound it.
The problem with running a ctan is that it's a nice big slow target that costs like a truck. Don't get me wrong, I love using ctan, but he's too easy to kill with only a 4++.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/08 11:50:45
Subject: Necrons v AP 2
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Wraiths rending would help in assault against them (watch out for TH/SS as usual though). Otherwise weight of fire.
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hello |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/08 11:52:24
Subject: Necrons v AP 2
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Trazyn's Museum Curator
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Arcanthrites may be useful. They can fire their cutting beams first (S6 AP2), and they come with a void blade. No invul though :/
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/07/08 11:57:36
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/08 20:18:54
Subject: Re:Necrons v AP 2
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Deranged Necron Destroyer
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Heavy Destroyers.
With PE, you're pretty much shooting at BS 9 (disregarding a roll of 2) and then wounding on a 2+ at AP 2. And at 36 inches to boot.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/08 20:21:35
Subject: Re:Necrons v AP 2
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Stone Bonkers Fabricator General
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RivenSkull wrote:Heavy Destroyers.
With PE, you're pretty much shooting at BS 9 (disregarding a roll of 2) and then wounding on a 2+ at AP 2. And at 36 inches to boot.
BS4 with PE isn't as likely to hit as BS5.
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Dark Mechanicus and Renegade Iron Hand Dakka Blog
My Dark Mechanicus P&M Blog. Mostly Modeling as I paint very slowly. Lots of kitbashed conversions of marines and a few guard to make up a renegade Iron Hand chapter and Dark Mechanicus Allies. Bionics++ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/08 20:22:51
Subject: Re:Necrons v AP 2
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Trazyn's Museum Curator
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RivenSkull wrote:Heavy Destroyers. With PE, you're pretty much shooting at BS 9 (disregarding a roll of 2) and then wounding on a 2+ at AP 2. And at 36 inches to boot. I think you should check your math, because that is definitely not BS9.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/07/08 20:25:29
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/08 20:28:09
Subject: Re:Necrons v AP 2
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Dakka Veteran
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I second heavy destroyers. PE make them very precise and while expensive, you're almost guaranteed to remove a model from the table per shot since only 2's to hit or double 1's act as true misses.
Entropic strike is ok; however, only is truly useful against multi-wound models. Many multi-wound models that can get AP2 have a high toughness and or strength making scarabs more of a tarpit than armor remover. That said, I've pissed off a number of CSM players by stripping away the terminator armor of their lords and sorcerers.
C'Tans are good but expensive. For less points, I could field a unit of 5 Praetorians with void blades or 3 heavy destroyers. The Praetorians have RP, more cumulative wounds (5 vs 4 on the C'Tan), and have a 3+ save which could be argued to be worse than the C'Tan's 4++.
Heavies are the cheapest of the three options and provide AP 2 at a range instead of CC.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/08 20:43:02
Subject: Necrons v AP 2
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Swift Swooping Hawk
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Death & Despair squads?
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"What we do in life, echoes in eternity" - Maximus Meridius
Check out Veterans of the Long War Podcast -
https://www.facebook.com/VeteransOfTheLongWar |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/08 20:46:22
Subject: Necrons v AP 2
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Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight
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The answer to this thread is the same thing Necrons use to take out everything else bar Land Raiders; Tesla Destructors. Rate of fire is your friend and nothing says rate of fire like a 4 shot gun that hits 5.5 times on average.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/08 20:52:15
Subject: Necrons v AP 2
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Swift Swooping Hawk
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true but Necrons still dont have the overwhelming rate of fire other armies do.
For example: 6 flyers and 3 annihilation barges in 2k is easy to do, so in that example there is 9 tesla destructors. that is roughly 49.5 hits on average. (based on your 5.5 estimate)
Assuming they all wound, that is 6 dead terminators, statistically. good, but not extremely good, especially since you just shot everything you had at that unit.
I do not disagree that rate of fire is the best tool, I just think that it doesn't necessarily fix the problem. A combination of tools is usually best. Having one hard counter makes it too easy for your enemy.
Now a couple heavy destroyers and a death and despair squad might take out the same 6 terminators using less resources. for example.
...my 2 cents...
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/07/08 20:53:44
"What we do in life, echoes in eternity" - Maximus Meridius
Check out Veterans of the Long War Podcast -
https://www.facebook.com/VeteransOfTheLongWar |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/08 21:19:36
Subject: Necrons v AP 2
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Boom! Leman Russ Commander
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At this point I highly recommend the Heat Cannons a second time.
Tonight, I faced a Deathwing army and then Grey Knights which I annihilated in three turns. The GK player had two Dreadknights and he lost one per turn.
The Pylons are 190 with Heat Cannon and IWND and just one of these can ruin a TEQ squad.
TH/SS units are still a pain, but this is where you either roadblock them, or just kite them at range.
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Mr Mystery wrote:Suffice to say, if any of this is actually true, then clearly Elvis is hiding behind my left testicle, and Lord Lucan behind the right. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/08 21:55:30
Subject: Necrons v AP 2
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Nihilistic Necron Lord
The best State-Texas
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Puscifer wrote:At this point I highly recommend the Heat Cannons a second time.
Tonight, I faced a Deathwing army and then Grey Knights which I annihilated in three turns. The GK player had two Dreadknights and he lost one per turn.
The Pylons are 190 with Heat Cannon and IWND and just one of these can ruin a TEQ squad.
TH/ SS units are still a pain, but this is where you either roadblock them, or just kite them at range.
I'm not a big fan of the Heat Cannon version to be Honest. I like the Default a lot, and the Focused Death Ray. I think the Heat Cannon is just too expensive.
My favorite method for dealing with 2+ save is still currently the Tesseract Ark.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/08 21:56:43
Subject: Necrons v AP 2
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Trazyn's Museum Curator
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Sasori wrote:Puscifer wrote:At this point I highly recommend the Heat Cannons a second time.
Tonight, I faced a Deathwing army and then Grey Knights which I annihilated in three turns. The GK player had two Dreadknights and he lost one per turn.
The Pylons are 190 with Heat Cannon and IWND and just one of these can ruin a TEQ squad.
TH/ SS units are still a pain, but this is where you either roadblock them, or just kite them at range.
I'm not a big fan of the Heat Cannon version to be Honest. I like the Default a lot, and the Focused Death Ray. I think the Heat Cannon is just too expensive.
My favorite method for dealing with 2+ save is still currently the Tesseract Ark.
This +10000
It fires 3 S7 AP2 small blasts. Terminators will die.
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What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/08 22:41:04
Subject: Necrons v AP 2
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One Canoptek Scarab in a Swarm
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Lots of good suggestions. Are the teaseract arks forgeworld? (And the other non-codex units mentioned) if not, where are they and their rule sets found? I'm leaning to try heavy destroyers next time out. I didn't have much luck with wraiths, but I was running 3 of them and without a destroyer lord.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/08 22:44:44
Subject: Necrons v AP 2
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Trazyn's Museum Curator
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KefkaZ wrote:Lots of good suggestions. Are the teaseract arks forgeworld? (And the other non-codex units mentioned) if not, where are they and their rule sets found? I'm leaning to try heavy destroyers next time out. I didn't have much luck with wraiths, but I was running 3 of them and without a destroyer lord.
Yes. They are expensive both points wise and money wise, and they are totally worth it.
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What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/08 22:49:02
Subject: Necrons v AP 2
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Sure Space Wolves Land Raider Pilot
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Destroyer lord with warscythe, MSS, Res orb and SP weave
Run him in a squad of preatorians if you want
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~ Krieg 6k
~ Necrons 2.5k
~ Space Wolves 5K
~ :Khorne CSM 2k
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/08 22:51:44
Subject: Necrons v AP 2
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Trazyn's Museum Curator
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Terminator power fists and thunder hammers say hi to the absence of phase shifters.
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What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/08 23:00:26
Subject: Necrons v AP 2
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Swift Swooping Hawk
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true but you will get reanimation protocol
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"What we do in life, echoes in eternity" - Maximus Meridius
Check out Veterans of the Long War Podcast -
https://www.facebook.com/VeteransOfTheLongWar |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/08 23:02:17
Subject: Necrons v AP 2
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Trazyn's Museum Curator
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Not if all of the praets are dead. Well, the Lord will get it, but only on a 5+, or a 4+ if you pay 30 points. And then he will be punched to death again, this time only needing one wound. You could pay another 15 points for the chance to have 3 wounds.
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What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/08 23:02:55
Subject: Necrons v AP 2
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Sure Space Wolves Land Raider Pilot
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The lords warscythe (initiative 2) and MSS cuts down the number of strikes back. Then the squads fearless and RP on a 4+ gives them decent survivability.
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~ Krieg 6k
~ Necrons 2.5k
~ Space Wolves 5K
~ :Khorne CSM 2k
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/08 23:04:25
Subject: Necrons v AP 2
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Trazyn's Museum Curator
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You are assuming that those attacks will hit and wound, and that the termies will fail their invuls, which could possibly be 3+. Staffs of the covenant are unwieldy, so they will hit at the same time as the fists and hammers. There's also overwatch. MSS will come in handy though. I could see it being very useful against termies without the 3+ invul. That's still a very expensive squad being put to risk.
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This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2013/07/08 23:08:21
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/08 23:09:14
Subject: Necrons v AP 2
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Swift Swooping Hawk
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CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Not if all of the praets are dead. Well, the Lord will get it, but only on a 5+, or a 4+ if you pay 30 points. And then he will be punched to death again, this time only needing one wound. You could pay another 15 points for the chance to have 3 wounds.
I'm not saying they're great at this particular job, but the idea has some merit. Hard to look at everything in a vacuum. I honestly prefer the voidshield option and i make them vehicle fortiification hunters.
I still stand by... several units working together. I don't use the forgeworld, so I can't comment on that stuff.
Or a Death and Despair squad... I mean this is what we've used since the book came out!
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"What we do in life, echoes in eternity" - Maximus Meridius
Check out Veterans of the Long War Podcast -
https://www.facebook.com/VeteransOfTheLongWar |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/08 23:12:08
Subject: Necrons v AP 2
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Sure Space Wolves Land Raider Pilot
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And your assuming the terminators will hit and wound.
I'm not saying throw them at a CC Terminator squad and expect to win. But I have charged normal Termies with this combo and cut them down in a single assault phase.
As for monstrous creatures that are by themselves the MSS does the damage then, wih the squad delivering the death blow.
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~ Krieg 6k
~ Necrons 2.5k
~ Space Wolves 5K
~ :Khorne CSM 2k
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