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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/10 17:18:07
Subject: Re:Blood Ravens, are they thousand sons that didn't become tainted or not?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Exergy wrote: Traejun wrote:
My only concern spawned from this issue is where there weren't more successor chapters of the traitor legions comprised of those that remained loyal. We know each traitor legion had at least some Astartes that stayed loyal - some of which even went on to form the first of the Grey Knights. My question has always been why there weren't more traitor legion Astartes remaining loyal. I understand the extreme loyalty to each legion's respective primarch, but wasn't the loyalty to the Emperor above even that? I suppose that's another issue for debate, but this conversation has always raised this confusion within me.
Isn't it entirely possible that some of the loyalist legions also went traitor?
They're called Fallen Dark Angels
More seriously, the possibility is there since this IS Chaos, after all, but they likely didn't recruit very many I'd think, because the Horus Heresy was a surprise. It was kept hush hush within the traitor legions (....somehow) and when it finally did break out, Horus made a beeline straight for Terra. There simply wouldn't be much time for the Traitors to actually recruit from the Loyalist legions. Even if a hypothetical disgruntled Ultramarine was a potential traitor recruit, he probably got blindsided so fast by the whole thing that he'd end up fighting on the Loyalists' side anyways. Well, that's what I think, anyways. Automatically Appended Next Post: purplefood wrote:
Is it?
A good chapter is like making a good character.
Making your character a super special snowflake doesn't make it interesting. It makes it silly most of the time. Just making the Blood Ravens from a traitor legion makes them silly.
If they were Ultramarine successors they'd be kind interesting because they have deviated from the codex norm and they have a character of their own as opposed to be 'I'm special because I'm a traitor but really I'm good'
I mean, even if they are from a traitor geneseed, who cares? What would it change about them? No one else in the Imperium knows and at this point no one else is going to know so really... who cares?
Example - If you have ever played an RPG there's always someone who wants to be a half-elf, half dragon half something else in an attempt to make an otherwise tedious character interesting.
It depends on what you're shooting for. Having a plotline about your character (or chapter, in this case) attempting to uncover his mysterious past might be the whole point of the story.
.....of course, in the Blood Raven's case, I'll admit it really isn't (it was more a trivia piece than anything to do with DoW's main plot), which is kinda lame. Ah well.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/07/10 17:22:51
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/10 17:36:44
Subject: Blood Ravens, are they thousand sons that didn't become tainted or not?
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Ancient Venerable Dreadnought
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People have to remember that the Blood Ravens are really just the equivalent of fan fiction, even if they've been canonized by GW.
The makers of Dawn of War wanted their own Space Marine Chapters, and then like a lot of 40K players, decided to make them Super Special Snowflake™* with a mysterious background. The guys who made Deathwatch did the same thing with the Storm Wardens.
It's pretty basic "entry level creative writing" behavior.
*I'm thoroughly entertained that my term Super Special Snowflake has become a generally used term on this forum, lol.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/10 17:39:39
Subject: Re:Blood Ravens, are they thousand sons that didn't become tainted or not?
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Renegade Inquisitor de Marche
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TiamatRoar wrote:
purplefood wrote:
Is it?
A good chapter is like making a good character.
Making your character a super special snowflake doesn't make it interesting. It makes it silly most of the time. Just making the Blood Ravens from a traitor legion makes them silly.
If they were Ultramarine successors they'd be kind interesting because they have deviated from the codex norm and they have a character of their own as opposed to be 'I'm special because I'm a traitor but really I'm good'
I mean, even if they are from a traitor geneseed, who cares? What would it change about them? No one else in the Imperium knows and at this point no one else is going to know so really... who cares?
Example - If you have ever played an RPG there's always someone who wants to be a half-elf, half dragon half something else in an attempt to make an otherwise tedious character interesting.
It depends on what you're shooting for. Having a plotline about your character (or chapter, in this case) attempting to uncover his mysterious past might be the whole point of the story.
.....of course, in the Blood Raven's case, I'll admit it really isn't (it was more a trivia piece than anything to do with DoW's main plot), which is kinda lame. Ah well.
Even then it's not particularly good...
If it's the main plotline then that's a bit more excusable but it still kinda reeks of someone who can't really write an entertaining character or at least an interesting character so they go super special snowflake mode. Automatically Appended Next Post: Veteran Sergeant wrote:People have to remember that the Blood Ravens are really just the equivalent of fan fiction, even if they've been canonized by GW.
The makers of Dawn of War wanted their own Space Marine Chapters, and then like a lot of 40K players, decided to make them Super Special Snowflake™* with a mysterious background. The guys who made Deathwatch did the same thing with the Storm Wardens.
It's pretty basic "entry level creative writing" behavior.
*I'm thoroughly entertained that my term Super Special Snowflake has become a generally used term on this forum, lol.
The Strom Wardens weren't as bad as the Blood Ravens to an extent...
Though the whole secret stasis snowflake is odd...
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/07/10 17:40:52
Dakka Bingo! By Ouze
"You are the best at flying things"-Kanluwen
"Further proof that Purple is a fething brilliant super villain " -KingCracker
"Purp.. Im pretty sure I have a gun than can reach you...."-Nicorex
"That's not really an apocalypse. That's just Europe."-Grakmar
"almost as good as winning free cake at the tea drinking contest for an Englishman." -Reds8n
Seal up your lips and give no words but mum.
Equip, Reload. Do violence.
Watch for Gerry. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/10 17:46:01
Subject: Blood Ravens, are they thousand sons that didn't become tainted or not?
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Ancient Venerable Dreadnought
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No, they're definitely far less ridiculously fan-fictiony compared to the Blood Ravens.
I was just using them as an example. Forgeworld even does the fan-fiction special snowflake thing though. So it isn't like it's terribly uncommon, lol.
It really seems like the only Space Marine Chapters that anyone knows where they come from are the ones created by Games Workshop. The rest come from some part of the 40K universe where the Administratum is even worse than usual.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/10 17:52:17
Subject: Blood Ravens, are they thousand sons that didn't become tainted or not?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Thing is, special snow flaking is endorsed by Games Workshop. Hell, they've even gone out and explicitly stated that was the whole point of the missing primarchs (so you could special snowflake your own legion if you wanted to). The cursed founding likely exists for this reason as well. It's arguably the point of the canon being so loose, too, so that you can insert your own special snowflake reason into whatever. And of course, the necrons were revamped because it was almost impossible to special snowflake up anything in their original form.
Although it's true that for all these encouragements of snowflaking, GW's own chapters are generally orthodox. It's argueable that this is fitting though because the whole point of all those side games (including Black Library, technically) was to add special snowflake ways of playing in or experiencing the 40k universe. IE, GW doesn't need to make its own base chapters into special snowflakes because it created/licensed those other companies to do that.
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This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2013/07/10 17:55:00
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/10 18:14:18
Subject: Blood Ravens, are they thousand sons that didn't become tainted or not?
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Rough Rider with Boomstick
Guelph Ontario
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When you have writers like Matt Ward turning every faction he touches into a super special snowflake, I'm more inclined to give Relic a pass for the Blood Ravens. At least they aren't overpowered ubermensches like the Ultramarines or the Grey Knights. The blood ravens have to work for their redemption, and even then, it cost them almost everything.
I think some of you are equating "more backstory than just a preliminary gloss" as special snowflake syndrome. The Blood Ravens aren't overpowered, every other chapter seems to despise them, and they were screwed over by a series of poor judgement calls and internal corruption. They are unique, yes, but not more so than any other chapter that had some effort put into their backstory and traditions.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/07/10 18:25:38
Think of something clever to say. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/10 18:25:48
Subject: Blood Ravens, are they thousand sons that didn't become tainted or not?
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Ancient Venerable Dreadnought
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TiamatRoar wrote: Hell, they've even gone out and explicitly stated that was the whole point of the missing primarchs (so you could special snowflake your own legion if you wanted to).
No they didn't.
That's just a commonly accepted player-created myth.
The point of having 1000 Chapters was so you could create your own Chapter. The missing legions didn't come until much later in the game's existence.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Arcsquad12 wrote:When you have writers like Matt Ward turning every faction he touches into a super special snowflake, I'm more inclined to give Relic a pass for the Blood Ravens. At least they aren't overpowered ubermensches like the Ultramarines or the Grey Knights.
How are the Ultramarines "overpowered" and I'd be curious to know how much of their back story you think Mat Ward wrote, and how much of it has existed since the early 90s and Rick Priestley's Codex: Ultramarines.
If I were a betting man, I'd guess that like most Ultramarines haters, you don't know. /shrug
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/07/10 18:28:46
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/10 18:29:45
Subject: Blood Ravens, are they thousand sons that didn't become tainted or not?
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Death-Dealing Devastator
Los Angeles, CA
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Arcsquad12 wrote:When you have writers like Matt Ward turning every faction he touches into a super special snowflake, I'm more inclined to give Relic a pass for the Blood Ravens. At least they aren't overpowered ubermensches like the Ultramarines or the Grey Knights. The blood ravens have to work for their redemption, and even then, it cost them almost everything.
The Blood Ravens are a fine chapter. Not too overpowered and with a nice spotted/mysterious history to keep them interesting. Relic did a fine job with them in the DoW series. I'm looking forward to DoW3 (provided it actually happens) for no other reason but to hear the continued story of the chapter.
The only thing I don't like about the chapter is the whole naming chapter relics after other chapters - leading to those chapters almost mocking the BR for it. That was unnecessary and detracts from what should be a proud chapter. I almost feel like that was Relic's way of throwing in some levity, but also a lack of creativity in naming wargear. It shouldn't have been that hard to name BR relics without reference to other chapters.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/10 19:06:29
Subject: Blood Ravens, are they thousand sons that didn't become tainted or not?
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Rough Rider with Boomstick
Guelph Ontario
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Veteran Sergeant wrote:
If I were a betting man, I'd guess that like most Ultramarines haters, you don't know. /shrug
Not an Ultramarine Hater, a Matt Ward hater. There is a difference. I don't have anything against the concept of the Ultramarines. What I do have a problem with is this man fellating them to the point where he feels the need to attack other factions just to prop up their pedestal. Turning them into the god of all trades so awesome that other marines aspire to be like them while aberrants to the Codex are dying out feels unnecessary.
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Think of something clever to say. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/10 19:19:42
Subject: Blood Ravens, are they thousand sons that didn't become tainted or not?
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Death-Dealing Devastator
Los Angeles, CA
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Arcsquad12 wrote: Veteran Sergeant wrote:
If I were a betting man, I'd guess that like most Ultramarines haters, you don't know. /shrug
Not an Ultramarine Hater, a Matt Ward hater. There is a difference. I don't have anything against the concept of the Ultramarines. What I do have a problem with is this man fellating them to the point where he feels the need to attack other factions just to prop up their pedestal. Turning them into the god of all trades so awesome that other marines aspire to be like them while aberrants to the Codex are dying out feels unnecessary.
I agree with this. While I neither love nor hate the Ultramarines, they are unnecessarily "awesome" in much of Ward's writing. I like the idea of a poster-boy chapter to act as a foil or counter-example of the few blatantly non-codex compliant chapters (i.e. Black Templars). However, it has gone too far.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/10 19:21:07
Subject: Blood Ravens, are they thousand sons that didn't become tainted or not?
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Roarin' Runtherd
Stockport UK
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Must say I'm not into Blood Ravens due to the super special snowflake (tm) situation of them, I like that they have a secret they are trying to hide, I like the colour of the power armour, I'm not after codex: blood ravens which I have seen on some boards, but I want to know as I grow them into a fighting force what the fluff is, I like to play games by fluff. Years of necromunda has got me used to thinking like a religious zealot or a shadowy spy, so to know as much of the back story as possible helps me enjoy playing the game more (sure I'm not alone)
I'm not a ultramarine hater, but a lot of my local space marine armies are either white scars or ultramarines, so I wanted something different, if they are a successor chapter to the ultramarines, raven guard, or blood angels that's cool too, although I find the "dark secret" thing seem as if they aren't.
But again thanks for the ideas, think the whole traitors loyalists, loyal traitors thing makes sense...interesting to see what more fluff we get for red scorpions, Minotaurs, Blood Ravens, etc as time goes by
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Long time Necromunda Player and 40k, new to 30k and AoS
3000+pt Salamanders army
1750pt Eldar army
4000pt Ork Goff army
1500pt Grey Knight army
1500pt tempestus army
Lizard men and Ogre AoS armies
Building 30k Emperors Children |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/10 19:21:27
Subject: Blood Ravens, are they thousand sons that didn't become tainted or not?
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Courageous Space Marine Captain
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Ther are a number of possible successors, including
Blood Angels (name, symbol and colours)
Raven Guard (name and symbol)
Imperial Fists (they have an old relic of Dorn's)
Thousands (vatious and numerous hints)
Personally I like to think they were descended from either the II or XI Legion. When those Legions were disbanded and it is hinted they integrated into the XIII, but they would have differing geneseed. This survived down the ages untill the founding of the Blood Ravens who carry this geneseed.
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I'm celebrating 8 years on Dakka Dakka!
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Credit to Castiel for banner. Thanks Cas!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/10 19:23:12
Subject: Blood Ravens, are they thousand sons that didn't become tainted or not?
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Renegade Inquisitor de Marche
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They have old relics of everyone's...
They collect relics, it's kinda what they do.
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Dakka Bingo! By Ouze
"You are the best at flying things"-Kanluwen
"Further proof that Purple is a fething brilliant super villain " -KingCracker
"Purp.. Im pretty sure I have a gun than can reach you...."-Nicorex
"That's not really an apocalypse. That's just Europe."-Grakmar
"almost as good as winning free cake at the tea drinking contest for an Englishman." -Reds8n
Seal up your lips and give no words but mum.
Equip, Reload. Do violence.
Watch for Gerry. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/10 22:15:11
Subject: Blood Ravens, are they thousand sons that didn't become tainted or not?
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Courageous Space Marine Captain
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purplefood wrote:They have old relics of everyone's...
They collect relics, it's kinda what they do.
I know that, I play them myself. The difference is that it was one of Dorn's old weapons, or something that specifically belonged to the VII Primarch.
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I'm celebrating 8 years on Dakka Dakka!
I started an Instagram! Follow me at Deadshot Miniatures!
DR:90+S++G+++M+B+IPw40k08#-D+++A+++/cwd363R+++T(Ot)DM+
Check out my Deathwatch story, Aftermath in the fiction section!
Credit to Castiel for banner. Thanks Cas!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/10 22:31:20
Subject: Blood Ravens, are they thousand sons that didn't become tainted or not?
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Renegade Inquisitor de Marche
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Yeah but if they also had Horus' codpiece it's not gonna mean they are Luna Wolves descendants...
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Dakka Bingo! By Ouze
"You are the best at flying things"-Kanluwen
"Further proof that Purple is a fething brilliant super villain " -KingCracker
"Purp.. Im pretty sure I have a gun than can reach you...."-Nicorex
"That's not really an apocalypse. That's just Europe."-Grakmar
"almost as good as winning free cake at the tea drinking contest for an Englishman." -Reds8n
Seal up your lips and give no words but mum.
Equip, Reload. Do violence.
Watch for Gerry. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/11 00:25:13
Subject: Blood Ravens, are they thousand sons that didn't become tainted or not?
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Ancient Venerable Dreadnought
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Traejun wrote: Arcsquad12 wrote: Veteran Sergeant wrote:
If I were a betting man, I'd guess that like most Ultramarines haters, you don't know. /shrug
Not an Ultramarine Hater, a Matt Ward hater. There is a difference. I don't have anything against the concept of the Ultramarines. What I do have a problem with is this man fellating them to the point where he feels the need to attack other factions just to prop up their pedestal. Turning them into the god of all trades so awesome that other marines aspire to be like them while aberrants to the Codex are dying out feels unnecessary.
I agree with this. While I neither love nor hate the Ultramarines, they are unnecessarily "awesome" in much of Ward's writing. I like the idea of a poster-boy chapter to act as a foil or counter-example of the few blatantly non-codex compliant chapters (i.e. Black Templars). However, it has gone too far.
But what I'm getting at is that Mat Ward didn't do much of that.
The Ultramarines have been "The Greatest of all Space Marine Chatpers" dating back to 1995 and Codex: Ultramarines.written by Rick Priestley. Almost everything awesome the Ultramarines did predates Mat Ward by over a decade, lol.
Really, the only thing Mat Ward added to their fluff that was over the top was the "They can never be Ultramarines", but it's no worse than any of the other codex books when it comes to playing up its titular faction, and Codex: Space Marines is the Ultramarines' codex. /shrug I know some people like to pretend that Codex: Space Marines isn't all about the Ultramarines, but it's the literal and linear successor to the original Codex: Ultramarines. The name was just changed in 3rd Edition for marketing purposes because Codex: Space Marines was easier for new players to know which book to buy to play as basic Space Marines.
Instrumental in stopping two Hive Fleets? Before Mat Ward. Ultramar being super awesome? Before Mat Ward. They'd always been the Bestest Marines in the fluff. People just wanted another reason to hate Mat Ward.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/11 01:55:10
Subject: Blood Ravens, are they thousand sons that didn't become tainted or not?
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Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine
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Back to the original question, instead of talking about the damned Ultramarines(I like them fine but the fanboy talk for/against them gets old REAL quick when it invades threads"), no one actually knows where the BR are from. Their origin is ultimately ambiguous, with nothing more than hints to go on. You can make ambiguous "hints" which have no actual answer as to what they indicate into anything you want to, that is almost a part of human nature.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/11 08:19:25
Subject: Blood Ravens, are they thousand sons that didn't become tainted or not?
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Courageous Space Marine Captain
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purplefood wrote:Yeah but if they also had Horus' codpiece it's not gonna mean they are Luna Wolves descendants...
Is not my own fluff ok? Its in game fluff and can be found on Lexicanum last I chek
cked.
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I'm celebrating 8 years on Dakka Dakka!
I started an Instagram! Follow me at Deadshot Miniatures!
DR:90+S++G+++M+B+IPw40k08#-D+++A+++/cwd363R+++T(Ot)DM+
Check out my Deathwatch story, Aftermath in the fiction section!
Credit to Castiel for banner. Thanks Cas!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/11 08:21:32
Subject: Blood Ravens, are they thousand sons that didn't become tainted or not?
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Renegade Inquisitor de Marche
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Deadshot wrote: purplefood wrote:Yeah but if they also had Horus' codpiece it's not gonna mean they are Luna Wolves descendants...
Is not my own fluff ok? Its in game fluff and can be found on Lexicanum last I chek
cked.
No I understand it's not your own fluff.
My point is the fact they own the damn thing doesn't mean anything...
They could have just picked it up from some god forsaken hell hole on one of their apparently many expeditions to nick other people's stuff.
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Dakka Bingo! By Ouze
"You are the best at flying things"-Kanluwen
"Further proof that Purple is a fething brilliant super villain " -KingCracker
"Purp.. Im pretty sure I have a gun than can reach you...."-Nicorex
"That's not really an apocalypse. That's just Europe."-Grakmar
"almost as good as winning free cake at the tea drinking contest for an Englishman." -Reds8n
Seal up your lips and give no words but mum.
Equip, Reload. Do violence.
Watch for Gerry. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/11 08:28:20
Subject: Blood Ravens, are they thousand sons that didn't become tainted or not?
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Courageous Space Marine Captain
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Hey, I'm just a messanger. I don't care either way whether they have it or not.
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I'm celebrating 8 years on Dakka Dakka!
I started an Instagram! Follow me at Deadshot Miniatures!
DR:90+S++G+++M+B+IPw40k08#-D+++A+++/cwd363R+++T(Ot)DM+
Check out my Deathwatch story, Aftermath in the fiction section!
Credit to Castiel for banner. Thanks Cas!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/11 08:31:49
Subject: Blood Ravens, are they thousand sons that didn't become tainted or not?
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Renegade Inquisitor de Marche
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Well then we can probably count Dorn out since they don't have any gene-seed imperfections barring the whole psyker thingy which I don't think was ever actually said to be the gene-seed...
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/07/11 08:32:00
Dakka Bingo! By Ouze
"You are the best at flying things"-Kanluwen
"Further proof that Purple is a fething brilliant super villain " -KingCracker
"Purp.. Im pretty sure I have a gun than can reach you...."-Nicorex
"That's not really an apocalypse. That's just Europe."-Grakmar
"almost as good as winning free cake at the tea drinking contest for an Englishman." -Reds8n
Seal up your lips and give no words but mum.
Equip, Reload. Do violence.
Watch for Gerry. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/11 09:47:00
Subject: Blood Ravens, are they thousand sons that didn't become tainted or not?
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Courageous Space Marine Captain
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It is suggested it could be the geneseed.
What imperfections did the IF have? IIRC, both the VII and XIII Legions have Flaw (capital F)-less geneseed.
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I'm celebrating 8 years on Dakka Dakka!
I started an Instagram! Follow me at Deadshot Miniatures!
DR:90+S++G+++M+B+IPw40k08#-D+++A+++/cwd363R+++T(Ot)DM+
Check out my Deathwatch story, Aftermath in the fiction section!
Credit to Castiel for banner. Thanks Cas!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/11 09:57:25
Subject: Blood Ravens, are they thousand sons that didn't become tainted or not?
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Renegade Inquisitor de Marche
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Nah, anyone using Dorn's seed don't get the sus-an membrane or the betcher's gland. Blood ravens apparently have everything.
AFAIK It's Dark Angels and Ultramarines who have the purest geneseed.
While we're on the subject of geneseed part of the reason people claim they are Thousand Son's is because they have a lot of psykers. Now whether their geneseed can give you psyker abilities (I guess by it's nature it could and apparently Magnus' did do such a thing) or they just happen to recruit a lot of them I am unsure but they don't have the flesh change that the Thousand Sons did have.
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Dakka Bingo! By Ouze
"You are the best at flying things"-Kanluwen
"Further proof that Purple is a fething brilliant super villain " -KingCracker
"Purp.. Im pretty sure I have a gun than can reach you...."-Nicorex
"That's not really an apocalypse. That's just Europe."-Grakmar
"almost as good as winning free cake at the tea drinking contest for an Englishman." -Reds8n
Seal up your lips and give no words but mum.
Equip, Reload. Do violence.
Watch for Gerry. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/11 10:01:28
Subject: Blood Ravens, are they thousand sons that didn't become tainted or not?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
West Midlands (UK)
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Binks wrote:Hey Dakka Dakka,
Just a bit of rumination on the wonder that are blood ravens, with the high number of librarians and the dark red power armour (which I think thousand sons used to wear prs-heresy Magnus the Red and all that lot) is it the case that they are thousand sons that weren't tainted or is that an Internet myth?
Really interested as I'm starting a raven army and like fluffy fluffiness (also really like the power armour coloration)
What are people's thoughts?
Yes, they are TS successors (if you want them to be).
No, they are not TS successors (if you don't want them to be).
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/11 16:49:46
Subject: Blood Ravens, are they thousand sons that didn't become tainted or not?
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Fixture of Dakka
Temple Prime
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Psienesis wrote:There's no canon, definitive answer. A lot of people look at various hints placed in the various BL novels as "proof", but it's not proof, just vague hints. If you want your BR to be 1KS successors, then go ahead, but someone is as likely to tell you they aren't, really.
Vague as in one of the thousand sons coming back to prospero post burning and outright saying "Knowledge is power, guard it well?" Which was the old motto of the chapter before Gabe changed it?
Or every Chaos Space Marine referring to the Blood Ravens as brothers and hinting that their lineage isn't as pure as they'd like to think?
Or Davian Thule discovering the origins of the chapter and becoming so disgusted that he destroyed the evidence?
Even if they're not sons of Magnus, they're definitely descended from one of the traitor legions.
The second choice would be the Word Bearers, going by Eliphas' taunts and goads and hints.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/07/11 16:50:19
Midnightdeathblade wrote:Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/11 17:39:24
Subject: Blood Ravens, are they thousand sons that didn't become tainted or not?
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Renegade Inquisitor de Marche
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You can't say they are definitely descended from a traitor legion. There's no definite proof either way.
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Dakka Bingo! By Ouze
"You are the best at flying things"-Kanluwen
"Further proof that Purple is a fething brilliant super villain " -KingCracker
"Purp.. Im pretty sure I have a gun than can reach you...."-Nicorex
"That's not really an apocalypse. That's just Europe."-Grakmar
"almost as good as winning free cake at the tea drinking contest for an Englishman." -Reds8n
Seal up your lips and give no words but mum.
Equip, Reload. Do violence.
Watch for Gerry. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/11 17:41:36
Subject: Blood Ravens, are they thousand sons that didn't become tainted or not?
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Fixture of Dakka
Temple Prime
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purplefood wrote:You can't say they are definitely descended from a traitor legion. There's no definite proof either way.
When have traitor legionnares ever falsely hinted at a less than pure lineage for an enemy chapter? Eliphas seems to be a pretty reliable source all told.
If there was nothing suspect with their origins, why would Thule throw a fit and smash the last bit of proof of it there was left?
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Midnightdeathblade wrote:Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/11 17:47:08
Subject: Blood Ravens, are they thousand sons that didn't become tainted or not?
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Courageous Space Marine Captain
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Maybe it wasn't the answer. Maybe just another cryptic clue.
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I'm celebrating 8 years on Dakka Dakka!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/11 17:48:53
Subject: Blood Ravens, are they thousand sons that didn't become tainted or not?
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Fixture of Dakka
Temple Prime
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Deadshot wrote:Maybe it wasn't the answer. Maybe just another cryptic clue.
Given the Blood Raven's borderline kleptomaniac tendencies regarding knowlegde, especially concerning their own origins, I don't think a mere clue would be considered worth destruction via thunderhammer.
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Midnightdeathblade wrote:Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/11 17:51:31
Subject: Blood Ravens, are they thousand sons that didn't become tainted or not?
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Renegade Inquisitor de Marche
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And yet. We don't know for certain...
Frankly the words and actions of a 10,000 year old traitor who regularly allies himself with what can basically be considered the enemy of life doesn't have much of a standing when it comes to trustworthiness.
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Dakka Bingo! By Ouze
"You are the best at flying things"-Kanluwen
"Further proof that Purple is a fething brilliant super villain " -KingCracker
"Purp.. Im pretty sure I have a gun than can reach you...."-Nicorex
"That's not really an apocalypse. That's just Europe."-Grakmar
"almost as good as winning free cake at the tea drinking contest for an Englishman." -Reds8n
Seal up your lips and give no words but mum.
Equip, Reload. Do violence.
Watch for Gerry. |
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