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 Malisteen wrote:
Not a surprise, I just wanted to note the official confirmation.

I expect that Abaddon with maintain the same default warlord trait from Codex: CSM, and that the same trait will appear in the Black Legion's trait table.

But know knowing for sure until someone with an ipad confirms it for us this weekend.

Not necesarly, look at Farsight, in the supplement he still got the Victory through Boldness trait from the ETau book, but this trait isn't in the supplement book.

So i suspect Abby to still being a Black Crusader( wich is a fine trait imo) and there will be 6 new traits.

From warseer


http://a5.mzstatic.com/us/r30/Publication4/v4/80/ec/7a/80ec7ab6-6690-b251-b072-d2b0361c3869/2013-08-12_18.07.49.480x480-75.jpg

Badass artifact

Nowhere nearly worth that cost. If all the attacks were with that profile it'd be accurately costed.

1 attack for 50 points? Not exactly very useful..

I dunno. I am thinking all the monsterous creatures that would crumble with that.

Nids, riptides, wraithknights... they'd want no part of that thing.

50 point attack? just as planned...

 Kirasu wrote:
1 attack for 50 points? Not exactly very useful..

one attack per round of combat. its not a total one use only. and please god no ones to hit...

 ausYenLoWang wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
1 attack for 50 points? Not exactly very useful..

one attack per round of combat. its not a total one use only. and please god no ones to hit...

Hmm, so you'll get S8, AP1, 2+ to wound, with instant death.

Not a bad thing actually. It's a MC killer through and through. Throw it on a biker lord and charge him and his group at the nastiest thing and attempt to sever its lights.

And as a bonus, it's not unwieldy! MoS Actually works with it!

Maybe on an outflanking MoS cavalry lord? Even so, I don't think it's worth the points for the one attack.

I do like the fluff, though, so I'm happy enough with it either way.

Would have been cooler if it functioned like Drach'nyen bzck in 3ed dex.

You make all your attacks as usual, and you can make ONE separate attack using the hand of Darkness.

That would be worthy.

Many MCs have higher initiative than a Chaos Lord, even with MOS. And most of the scariest one have access to instant death or STR 10 attacks, so it is quite likely that it won't be even able to use it. Not to mention that is likely you still have to roll to hit, I didn't read about auto-hit from that preview.... Auto VotLW, chosens as troops and this... Really a bad start. Hope it gets better

I disagree. I think its a good start.

Remember it has been confirmed that there will be some new rules to terminators.

Also, if this is the ONLY new artifact, then I can see it being a bad start. But if its just 1 of a few new ones, then I think this artifact is a great tool at taking out single high-point models one after the other.

Destroy High armour tank.
Kill monstrous creature.
Kill HQ in challenge.

Of course you have to roll decent, but taking out a 3. 4. or 5 wound HQ in one round of combat will more than make up for its points.

As I said the problem is that most of the time you won't be able to use it because you won't survive the first round of a challenge against a MC.

I did not say it's a bad supplement, because we need to see the full book. Just said that all we have seen so far is quite bad IMHO. Because "new rules for terminators" does not necessarily mean they will be good

Diablix wrote:
As I said the problem is that most of the time you won't be able to use it because you won't survive the first round of a challenge against a MC.

I did not say it's a bad supplement, because we need to see the full book. Just said that all we have seen so far is quite bad IMHO. Because "new rules for terminators" does not necessarily mean they will be good

I get what your saying. I suppose I a a little optimistic about it is all. Who knows, it could have things in it that no one expected.

In any case, I hope more rules leak out. I'd like to really get a grasp on the direction they are taking with the black legion as a whole. This book will be the new standard on how we think about them, not just in gameplay, but in fluff. as well.

Diablix wrote:
Many MCs have higher initiative than a Chaos Lord, even with MOS. And most of the scariest one have access to instant death or STR 10 attacks, so it is quite likely that it won't be even able to use it. Not to mention that is likely you still have to roll to hit, I didn't read about auto-hit from that preview.... Auto VotLW, chosens as troops and this... Really a bad start. Hope it gets better

Hmm, A MoS lord with it would hit before all the Tyranid's MC's except for the Hive Tyrant/swarmlord, they'd be swinging together at I5.

With CSM/CD he'd be swinging after everything except GUO, Fateweaver.

Striking before Dreadknights, Riptides, Wraithlords, C'tan Shards.

Striking WraithKnights at the same time

Striking after Avatar.

Did I miss any? There's also alotta expensive HQ's that don't have access to Eternal Warrior. Would be lucky if that Chaos Lord gained EW from a gift roll beforehand though.

He'd also autoglance AV10 (S8 + 2D6) and could do well against vehicles.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

Verses wrote:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/wnt/blog.jsp?pid=10400064

New terminator rules? Interesting.

Cult players are going to be either so happy or soo pissed if BL suddenly gets fearless nasty elite terminators

Roll on the Death Guard supplement and just give me my Fearless FNP Plague Terminators, k?

rumor is the cult legions arent getting supplements


Automatically Appended Next Post:

AhrimansBolter wrote:
I disagree. I think its a good start.

Remember it has been confirmed that there will be some new rules to terminators.

Also, if this is the ONLY new artifact, then I can see it being a bad start. But if its just 1 of a few new ones, then I think this artifact is a great tool at taking out single high-point models one after the other.

Destroy High armour tank.
Kill monstrous creature.
Kill HQ in challenge.

Of course you have to roll decent, but taking out a 3. 4. or 5 wound HQ in one round of combat will more than make up for its points.

doesnt the murder sword already do that?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

AhrimansBolter wrote:
From warseer


http://a5.mzstatic.com/us/r30/Publication4/v4/80/ec/7a/80ec7ab6-6690-b251-b072-d2b0361c3869/2013-08-12_18.07.49.480x480-75.jpg

Badass artifact

so instead of your normal 4-5 attacks you can make 1 special attack, that will likely miss. Sure it wounds on 2+, sure it will probably autopen vehicle, sure it inflicts ID.

it will in all likelyhood miss. The times your really want it to ID someone, they will have EW.

50 points? screw this I am going to play my CSM as count as ultramarines and get to reroll to hit with all my shooting weapons.

 Exergy wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

Verses wrote:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/wnt/blog.jsp?pid=10400064

New terminator rules? Interesting.

Cult players are going to be either so happy or soo pissed if BL suddenly gets fearless nasty elite terminators

Roll on the Death Guard supplement and just give me my Fearless FNP Plague Terminators, k?

rumor is the cult legions arent getting supplements


Automatically Appended Next Post:

AhrimansBolter wrote:
I disagree. I think its a good start.

Remember it has been confirmed that there will be some new rules to terminators.

Also, if this is the ONLY new artifact, then I can see it being a bad start. But if its just 1 of a few new ones, then I think this artifact is a great tool at taking out single high-point models one after the other.

Destroy High armour tank.
Kill monstrous creature.
Kill HQ in challenge.

Of course you have to roll decent, but taking out a 3. 4. or 5 wound HQ in one round of combat will more than make up for its points.

doesnt the murder sword already do that?

That rumor is heavily contested by other rumors.

Also the Murder Sword is only specific to ONE model, and is a basic power sword otherwise, also it's only 15 points to upgrade up to the Hand of Darkness over the Murder Sword.

The Hand of Darkness (DARKNESS FINGER!): Is always available, doesn't take up a melee slot so you can take like a lightning claw if you want, also it deals better with vehicle armour (since it's always S8+ with 2D6 against vehicles)

AhrimansBolter wrote:
I disagree. I think its a good start.

Remember it has been confirmed that there will be some new rules to terminators.

Also, if this is the ONLY new artifact, then I can see it being a bad start. But if its just 1 of a few new ones, then I think this artifact is a great tool at taking out single high-point models one after the other.

Destroy High armour tank.
Kill monstrous creature.
Kill HQ in challenge.

Of course you have to roll decent, but taking out a 3. 4. or 5 wound HQ in one round of combat will more than make up for its points.

doesnt the murder sword already do that?

Not really. The murder sword is good for a single character.

This new artifact can be used on anyone, so you can kill multiple big threats throughout the game.

AhrimansBolter wrote:

AhrimansBolter wrote:
I disagree. I think its a good start.

Remember it has been confirmed that there will be some new rules to terminators.

Also, if this is the ONLY new artifact, then I can see it being a bad start. But if its just 1 of a few new ones, then I think this artifact is a great tool at taking out single high-point models one after the other.

Destroy High armour tank.
Kill monstrous creature.
Kill HQ in challenge.

Of course you have to roll decent, but taking out a 3. 4. or 5 wound HQ in one round of combat will more than make up for its points.

doesnt the murder sword already do that?

Not really. The murder sword is good for a single character.

This new artifact can be used on anyone, so you can kill multiple big threats throughout the game.

I really dont think giving up all of your attacks for one attack that will just as likely miss, fail to wound or get saved is worth it.

It is very useful against vehicles, but hey so is a chainfist.

Hitting a riptide 3+ then 2+ then 3+(fail save) 36% to kill if it's hasnt nova charged its reactor. 18% if it has.
36% to kill a dreadknight, VotLW helps a bit
36% to kill a wraithknight with shield
36% to kill most daemons, unless they are WS 6(5 with AoBF)
27% to kill a daemon with WS6
55% to kill a wraithknight without a shield, most nid MC's fit this category
It wont kill the swarmlord even without EW. going to be striking last anyway and only 20% chance to do one wound.

 Exergy wrote:


I really dont think giving up all of your attacks for one attack that will just as likely miss, fail to wound or get saved is worth it.

It is very useful against vehicles, but hey so is a chainfist.

Hitting a riptide 3+ then 2+ then 3+(fail save) 36% to kill if it's hasnt nova charged its reactor. 18% if it has.
36% to kill a dreadknight, VotLW helps a bit
36% to kill a wraithknight with shield
36% to kill most daemons, unless they are WS 6(5 with AoBF)
27% to kill a daemon with WS6
55% to kill a wraithknight without a shield, most nid MC's fit this category
It wont kill the swarmlord even without EW. going to be striking last anyway and only 20% chance to do one wound.

Doesn't the riptide have no inv. save if it does not nova charge? I could be wrong on this.

In any case, rather than slaanesh, one could use a nurgle bike lord to absorb those S10 hits and stay alive longer. With Sigil of corruption, you'd have a decent chance of staying alive.

I'm not saying this weapon is AMAZING, but it is an interesting tool, especially if you know you'll be up against some heavy tanks or big MC's.

I still look forward to the rest of the rules.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Diablix wrote:
Many MCs have higher initiative than a Chaos Lord, even with MOS. And most of the scariest one have access to instant death or STR 10 attacks, so it is quite likely that it won't be even able to use it. Not to mention that is likely you still have to roll to hit, I didn't read about auto-hit from that preview.... Auto VotLW, chosens as troops and this... Really a bad start. Hope it gets better

Hmm, A MoS lord with it would hit before all the Tyranid's MC's except for the Hive Tyrant/swarmlord, they'd be swinging together at I5.

With CSM/CD he'd be swinging after everything except GUO, Fateweaver.

Striking before Dreadknights, Riptides, Wraithlords, C'tan Shards.

Striking WraithKnights at the same time

Striking after Avatar.

Did I miss any? There's also alotta expensive HQ's that don't have access to Eternal Warrior. Would be lucky if that Chaos Lord gained EW from a gift roll beforehand though.

He'd also autoglance AV10 (S8 + 2D6) and could do well against vehicles.

just checked my codex, Lord starts there and MoS bring him to I6.

 ausYenLoWang wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Diablix wrote:
Many MCs have higher initiative than a Chaos Lord, even with MOS. And most of the scariest one have access to instant death or STR 10 attacks, so it is quite likely that it won't be even able to use it. Not to mention that is likely you still have to roll to hit, I didn't read about auto-hit from that preview.... Auto VotLW, chosens as troops and this... Really a bad start. Hope it gets better

Hmm, A MoS lord with it would hit before all the Tyranid's MC's except for the Hive Tyrant/swarmlord, they'd be swinging together at I5.

With CSM/CD he'd be swinging after everything except GUO, Fateweaver.

Striking before Dreadknights, Riptides, Wraithlords, C'tan Shards.

Striking WraithKnights at the same time

Striking after Avatar.

Did I miss any? There's also alotta expensive HQ's that don't have access to Eternal Warrior. Would be lucky if that Chaos Lord gained EW from a gift roll beforehand though.

He'd also autoglance AV10 (S8 + 2D6) and could do well against vehicles.

just checked my codex, Lord starts there and MoS bring him to I6.

Whoops.

Such a Bike Lord would easily cost 190+ points, because you have to spend points on this artifact, on the bike and the Mark of Slaanesh. In Addition it would make sense to me to buy at least a ligthning claw, otherwise it would be easily tarpitted by large units of cheap models and made useless with his default pitiful S4 AP- attacks. And it's likely you'll want to protect your huge investment with a Sigil of Corruption. For a grand total of 190 points Power Armour guy that is NOT an eternal warrior and can be killed by any S10 attack.

Yes, he's faster than some MCs, but slower than many others, which by pure accident are also the most troublesome ones.
Because you must also consider that there are MCs which are psykers, allowing them to have that cool initiative bonus (like the Swarmlord IIRC)

AhrimansBolter wrote:
I dunno. I am thinking all the monsterous creatures that would crumble with that.

Nids, riptides, wraithknights... they'd want no part of that thing.

I'm also going to throw out their that it's also a single Chainfist attack that is used at initiative. It's also not a specialist melee weapon. I could see pairing it off with a Power sword on a Combat beast Chaos lord.

Heck, put it on a slaanesh marked chaos lord, and go for the instant gib in challenges for the lulz.

 Lockark wrote:

AhrimansBolter wrote:
I dunno. I am thinking all the monsterous creatures that would crumble with that.

Nids, riptides, wraithknights... they'd want no part of that thing.

I'm also going to throw out their that it's also a single Chainfist attack that is used at initiative. It's also not a specialist melee weapon. I could see pairing it off with a Power sword on a Combat beast Chaos lord.

Heck, put it on a slaanesh marked chaos lord, and go for the instant gib in challenges for the lulz.

it isnt a weapon, so you can take it with your powerfist+lighting claw. The issue is that you must trade all of your attacks to use it. Against a riptide you are already wounding on 2+ with your powerfist. You have 5 attacks and each attack has a 36% to wound, but because you attack 5 times you will average 1.8 wounds per round. If you use this artifact, you have a 36% to kill it outright. If it had 6 wounds that averages out to 2.16 wounds per round.

That certainly is an improvement, 2.16 to 1.8,
BUT
It's 50 points!
If the riptide has already taken damage you are better off doing constant damage rather than hoping for one lucky shot.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

AhrimansBolter wrote:

Doesn't the riptide have no inv. save if it does not nova charge? I could be wrong on this.

Tides have a 5++ all the time and can get a 3++ if they nova charge it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lockark wrote:

AhrimansBolter wrote:

I'm also going to throw out their that it's also a single Chainfist attack that is used at initiative.

It's a single attack though, you have to sacrifice all of your other attacks. I really think this is best on a MoS asipiring champion. He only forfiets 3 attacks to use it. A chaos lord loses 5(better) attacks.

AhrimansBolter wrote:
From warseer


http://a5.mzstatic.com/us/r30/Publication4/v4/80/ec/7a/80ec7ab6-6690-b251-b072-d2b0361c3869/2013-08-12_18.07.49.480x480-75.jpg

Badass artifact

just reading the fluff blurb for this thing, it was given to mortarion, to get them to come on the 13th crusade. now to me it reads almost like this is one item that was used to get one of the god specific legions to come, what did abby pay the others with? so there may be one per god specific legion. lets hope everyone gets a nice little bit of love.

and damn i was reading that artifact as you could instead make one of your attacks the special one, not trade all of them.... :( and i wonder if these items will have the same rule as the other daemon weapons, 1 per army, and must trade off another weapon to have them.

Chaos artifacts are weapons and replace weapons by default, unless the rules for it specifically say otherwise. So you can't give a lord two weapons plus the hand, although you could argue that the hand could replace the twin linked bolters on a bike (as some already do with the brand). That's kind of stretching the rules there.

Again, unless it specifically says otherwise and I missed it.

 Malisteen wrote:
Chaos artifacts are weapons and replace weapons by default, unless the rules for it specifically say otherwise. So you can't give a lord two weapons plus the hand, although you could argue that the hand could replace the twin linked bolters on a bike (as some already do with the brand). That's kind of stretching the rules there.

Again, unless it specifically says otherwise and I missed it.

Or just the bolter/bolt pistol, if your using it as a melee lord anyways you're probably gonna be running a LC.

Now the digital copy is out is anyone able to do us a QnA? It would be much appreciated

 ausYenLoWang wrote:

AhrimansBolter wrote:
From warseer


http://a5.mzstatic.com/us/r30/Publication4/v4/80/ec/7a/80ec7ab6-6690-b251-b072-d2b0361c3869/2013-08-12_18.07.49.480x480-75.jpg

Badass artifact

just reading the fluff blurb for this thing, it was given to mortarion, to get them to come on the 13th crusade. now to me it reads almost like this is one item that was used to get one of the god specific legions to come, what did abby pay the others with? so there may be one per god specific legion. lets hope everyone gets a nice little bit of love.

and damn i was reading that artifact as you could instead make one of your attacks the special one, not trade all of them.... :( and i wonder if these items will have the same rule as the other daemon weapons, 1 per army, and must trade off another weapon to have them.

I suspect all "God-affiliated" legions will get an item.