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 Grey Templar wrote:
Again, silly sci-fi.

So let me guess, "silly sci-fi" is defined as "anything that can beat 40k", therefore you can just dismiss anything that beats 40k as silly and irrelevant?


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 Grey Templar wrote:
And as has been proven countless times in said threads, 40k has space superiority. The smallest 40k ship is the same size as a Star Destroyer, which is supposedly a capital ship.

Size is irrelevant, what matters is firepower and durability. 40k ships are huge because they're giant flying cathedrals with idiotic design features like chemical-propellant cannons with slave crews pulling on chains to load the shells and aim the guns instead of more sensible automated systems. The star destroyer, on the other hand, doesn't have all that wasted space and inefficiency.

Or, an even better example: Culture warships are usually only single-digit kilometers in length (mostly because building anything bigger is considered the kind of thing that only barbarians with no aesthetic sense would do), but one of them could effortlessly beat the combined fleets of every 40k faction.

And the Imperium is certainly not adverse to using WMDs. In fact many of their "conventional" weapons would be classified as WMDs by our standards.

Of course they're reluctant to use WMDs. That's why you have stories with millions of guardsmen making human wave attacks and not just getting killed pointlessly by nuclear weapons, or Tyranids existing at all.

I bet they can't beat the Ideon though.

Bah. Peter Hamiltons Commonwealth Universe has a ship that is a quantum Inter stitch.

Your puny baryonic ships are nothing.

Since this seems to have devolved into a discussion about different races/species/empires in comparison to 40K I would like to hear peoples opinions how well the Forerunners, Precursors and Primordial flood would do in the 40K verse.

 DxM Scotty MxD wrote:
Since this seems to have devolved into a discussion about different races/species/empires in comparison to 40K I would like to hear peoples opinions how well the Forerunners, Precursors and Primordial flood would do in the 40K verse.

Well were at it... how bout Borg, Xenomorphs and Tribbles.

If you did incorporate Sc2 into 40k, then probably protoss would have the best chances, because if we assume a chaos-proof psychic network(with the pylons and everything) then the high templar would be around equal to the hq choice psykers of the imperial guard, with groups probably being able to make severe dents in the three of the most common enemies(tyranids/orks/IG).

They also have the war machine economy, presumably, given that a colossus can be hit by anti-air missles, so at least the size of a skyscraper probably(not exactly sure the minimum size) and the troopers are all given what I'd equate to power weapons.

The terrans I'm not sure about, and the zerg would just get destroyed by all the psychic *donkey-procreating* that gets thrown around. Primal zerg might have a chance though, if they got a good enough start against nids or orks.

Heh, your comment on the Colossus made me actually think about the size it would be. We all think the Wraithknight is big for a nonapoc game....it would probably be close to 1.5-2x that....

Omg i would hate to build that because i bet it would be Finecast, those 4 spidery legs would not support that thing.

From the fluff POV, I always thought of Star Craft 2 Terran forces as comparable to specialized Imperial Guard, or simple Skitarii.
The Zerg sounds to me like the 'locust swarm' concept that grew into the Tyranid.
The Protoss don't strike me as having counterparts from the mainstream 40k races. They are not Elves in space. I suppose I could view them as similar to the Eldar from the War in heaven era or perhaps Kinesbach, but none of that fits well.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Heh, your comment on the Colossus made me actually think about the size it would be. We all think the Wraithknight is big for a nonapoc game....it would probably be close to 1.5-2x that....

Omg i would hate to build that because i bet it would be Finecast, those 4 spidery legs would not support that thing.

Now imagine your standard 'toss deathball.

Another thing, if you go by the cinematics, the battlecruisers would be HUGE(compared to the rest of the models). Also, the Ultralisks would be 2-4 times the size of a stormtalon/dreadnought(if we assume they're about the side of the viking).

Finally, I would call the protoss necrons with the 'dying race' theme, rather than the 'returning overlords' theme.

 DxM Scotty MxD wrote:
Since this seems to have devolved into a discussion about different races/species/empires in comparison to 40K I would like to hear peoples opinions how well the Forerunners, Precursors and Primordial flood would do in the 40K verse.

The halo verse suffers from horrible weapons and equipment. the Forerunners basic infantry "Hard Light rifle" is weaker then a rifle that fires a 7.62x51mm bullet that pretty weak for a guardians of the galaxy race. Seeing as the Didact would probably had the strongest ship in the forerunner fleet (he was their supreme commander), it was penetrated by a Mac round fired from the infinity, said mac gun is pretty weak compared to 40k counterparts. the forerunners would get slaughtered pretty dam fast.

Precursors are currently an unknown.

Now we get to the flood. and the tyranids are a much larger threat than the flood. to travel in space the Flood require infected persons and their ships. other than that they are stuck on a planet and get blown away by said 40k fleet.

If anything Protoss would be a mixture of Eldar and Necrons due to their Robotic, Teleportation and Psy technology. And for the hybrids, i saw earlier in the thread they are basically like swarmlords.

To be quite honest, in how the imperium handle their tactics and outdated tech a lot of Sci-fi races, imperiums, factions and etc could easily just anahilate them.

What the 40k universe have in its favor is basically that the imperium have almost the whole galaxy, but their declining tech, their reliance on warp, and so on, they only really have the "fan-armor" ( basically a fan-boy can constantly make up scenarios that they will win regardless ) and with their limited communication system they will NEVER gather their full number of the entire galaxy to wipe out another main faction from a sci-fi series that at least have the control of entire sectors ( see: Tau ) But if they amassed their entire military power in one place, against another race without the inter-faction problems, without the multitude a entire galaxy would face and the spread of its problem, they will lose by default against the nids in the same setting ( as they most likely already eaten a whole galaxy already, or more )

Even tho i like the whole "gothic" thing 40k have, the imperium is far from "glorious" and superior, and that is not even trying to add "sense" or "realistic" measures to it, its just a shadow of its former self, in rapid decline against a world that hates it, and i will put my Cash on Tyranids, Tau, or the forces of Chaos to remain in the end over the imperium at any rate.

Dracoknight wrote:
they only really have the "fan-armor" ( basically a fan-boy can constantly make up scenarios that they will win regardless )

And not even that all of the time. You can't make up any scenario where 40k beats a Culture ship, at least without resorting to childish things like "the emperor wins because the emperor is cool!!!!!!!!!!!".

 PhrycePhyre wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Heh, your comment on the Colossus made me actually think about the size it would be. We all think the Wraithknight is big for a nonapoc game....it would probably be close to 1.5-2x that....

Omg i would hate to build that because i bet it would be Finecast, those 4 spidery legs would not support that thing.

Now imagine your standard 'toss deathball.

Another thing, if you go by the cinematics, the battlecruisers would be HUGE(compared to the rest of the models). Also, the Ultralisks would be 2-4 times the size of a stormtalon/dreadnought(if we assume they're about the side of the viking).

Finally, I would call the protoss necrons with the 'dying race' theme, rather than the 'returning overlords' theme.

To me the Capital Ships would be reserved for apoc. 40k scales arent exactly perfect but theyre way closer than SC2 is non-cinematic wise (which technically the BC shouldnt ever be on the battlefield its so big, or for that matter the Leviathan since its the size of a small moon lol). I think the Ultralisk, Colossus, and Thor would be as big as they get, and they'd probably have to scale the Ultra/Thor down or give it its own base (Colossus is just a tall mofo it aint that wide really). And i imagine your comparison of an ultra to a dreadnought is probably spot on (damn thats big lol).

 Peregrine wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Again, silly sci-fi.

So let me guess, "silly sci-fi" is defined as "anything that can beat 40k", therefore you can just dismiss anything that beats 40k as silly and irrelevant?


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 Grey Templar wrote:
And as has been proven countless times in said threads, 40k has space superiority. The smallest 40k ship is the same size as a Star Destroyer, which is supposedly a capital ship.

Size is irrelevant, what matters is firepower and durability. 40k ships are huge because they're giant flying cathedrals with idiotic design features like chemical-propellant cannons with slave crews pulling on chains to load the shells and aim the guns instead of more sensible automated systems. The star destroyer, on the other hand, doesn't have all that wasted space and inefficiency.

Or, an even better example: Culture warships are usually only single-digit kilometers in length (mostly because building anything bigger is considered the kind of thing that only barbarians with no aesthetic sense would do), but one of them could effortlessly beat the combined fleets of every 40k faction.

And the Imperium is certainly not adverse to using WMDs. In fact many of their "conventional" weapons would be classified as WMDs by our standards.

Of course they're reluctant to use WMDs. That's why you have stories with millions of guardsmen making human wave attacks and not just getting killed pointlessly by nuclear weapons, or Tyranids existing at all.

'

Size in this case is also an indicator of power.

A single capital ship has enough fire power to level a continent.

And the bits about using chains to load the guns is not true. Its only present in a couple books and is not what is actually happening.

 Kain wrote:

 Zande4 wrote:
Aliens > Nids > Zerg > Flood
Colonial Marines > Space Marines > Terran > UNSC
Predator > Eldar > Protoss > Covenant

and to a lesser extent

Arachnids
Mobile Infantry
Skinnies

Everyone copies everyone and Nids solo all of the above.

Not quite.

Metroids>Tyranids>Necromorphs>Zerg>Arachnids>Game Flood>Xenomorphs.

Samus Aran>>>>>>>>>>>>>Crysis Nanosuit>Space Marines>Captain America>HALO Spartans>Starcraft Marines>Colonial Marines

Metroid Space pirates>Eldar>Protoss>The Ceph from Crysis>Covenant>Yajuta Empire>Movie Chitauri

What matters here is how much firepower you can take and dish out and how many creature you can pump out. The Protoss have impressive firepower but pitiful numbers, the Tyranids grotesquely outnumber and out reproduce everyone else, but the Metroids beat them out by being able to not only reproduce at ant like rates with their queens, but being able to undergo mitosis in beta radiation and being nearly invulnerable to anything that isn't a cold based weapon, oh and attacking via devouring your life force.

Samus Aran grew up on a 4.6 teraton planet (that's over eight hundred times more massive than earth) after being orphaned and evidently wasn't squished, so she can not only withstand enough gravity to crush a tank flat, but she showed the ability to vault over a cliff on it without her suit. with her suit the stated energy yields (multi-terawatts) are equivalent to a small nuclear bomb (kiloton range), this is one of the most basic weapons in the game and barely does diddly to her shields. The space pirates can withstand close to twenty shots from this weapon, and she? Hundreds.

Oh I wasn't saying who would win, I was saying what came first.

Although I guess this probably explains it best and pre-dates all of the above. Id, Ego, and Super Ego. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Id,_ego_and_super-ego

It's the three parts of the psyche. Conceptualized back in the '20s by Freud.

Id is your basic animal instinct = Zerg / Tyranids / Flood... and so on

Ego is the realistic human drive to succeed = Human...

Super-ego is ones aim toward perfection = Protoss / Eldar / Covenant...

Here’s a question for ya fine folks. What would happen, if a High Templer used feedback on an imperial battle ship (of any kind) with an active warp engine, or a Stormblade with the huge plasma cannon on?

As for the scenario with the Battle ship, let’s just simplify things and pretend the Gellar shields are down, or the Templar resides within the ship’s hull.

 Redcruisair wrote:
Here’s a question for ya fine folks. What would happen, if a High Templer used feedback on an imperial battle ship (of any kind) with an active warp engine, or a Stormblade with the huge plasma cannon on?

As for the scenario with the Battle ship, let’s just simplify things and pretend the Gellar shields are down, or the Templar resides within the ship’s hull.

I think functionally feedback would work on a lot of things, given the basic premise, in my mind, is that it overloads the power fields(conventional or psychic) or channels the energy into a blast, therefore it could severely devastate anything with some form of shielding or similar.

Argh, now I'm imagining the possible destruction on an eldar craftworld with a large group of templars, given that they are mostly psychic power field.

EDIT: As an answer to the actual question: big, -ing explosion.

Void Shields are also "psychic" in nature. In that they use the Warp to protect the ship somehow.

They're also up all the time from what I gather.

We can't be sure how that would interact with a Templar using Feedback. It could cause him to self-implode for all we know. And the thickness of the ships hull could also provide a measure of protection.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Void Shields are also "psychic" in nature. In that they use the Warp to protect the ship somehow.

They're also up all the time from what I gather.

We can't be sure how that would interact with a Templar using Feedback. It could cause him to self-implode for all we know. And the thickness of the ships hull could also provide a measure of protection.

Void shields work by shunting the energy of an enemy attack into the immaterium.
When they are activated anyway, iirc they take a fair amount of time to fully activate.

How would feedback work in a 40k game? None friendly psyker hit with a feedback, takes x number of wounds equal to the x number of warp charges he currently possess?
Seems workable, but what about none psykers?

Or you could make them take a Sd6 hit for each wound they have remaining, or some kind of toughness test.

I think you could actually make a good fanfiction with any of the starcraft races in 40k. Lets say for excample you take zerg just start them out on some backwater world and they will most likely be a huge threat to the universe before you know it because it ussually takes a millenium or 2 before anybody notices anythings gone wrong (at least they make it seem that way in the books). If you take the terrans just make sure they bring couple of thousand resoc tanks, and they will be churning out trained troops real quick from local popualation centers. As for size descrepencys of capital ships everyone who has played starcraft 1 know size isnt everything (just think back to those crazy flying suicide units). And the terran commanders would be smart enough probally to make robotic versions of them probally very similar to their vulture spider mines. Also I think The terrans have better tech in general. With tiomk being so supersticious and everything their tech is very low for sc2 standerds in most departments.

 starraptor wrote:
I think you could actually make a good fanfiction with any of the starcraft races in 40k. Lets say for excample you take zerg just start them out on some backwater world and they will most likely be a huge threat to the universe before you know it because it ussually takes a millenium or 2 before anybody notices anythings gone wrong (at least they make it seem that way in the books).

The problem with zerg is the psychic connection they rely on(refer to one of the later missions of the HOTS campaign, there was a shield that just killed any zerg by disrupting the connection). This means that with the tyranid Shadow, the eldar, chaos, etc, the conection would get destroyed very easily when they fight anything more than the PDF of their corresponding worlds

EDIT:Although, Primal zerg are a entirely different kettle of ravening space-horrors, given the lack of the psychic connection. They could become a very real threat in the surrounding area if they get a strong enough leader for unified 'government' and encounter a dying splinter hive fleet or fledgling waagh. This being because they are the power organic races, so they can be assimilated, so you would get access to all the tasty tyranid strains or get the ork regeneration/combat evolution. Imagine the generation time on ork-including zerglings.

If you take the terrans just make sure they bring couple of thousand resoc tanks, and they will be churning out trained troops real quick from local popualation centers. As for size descrepencys of capital ships everyone who has played starcraft 1 know size isnt everything (just think back to those crazy flying suicide units). And the terran commanders would be smart enough probally to make robotic versions of them probally very similar to their vulture spider mines. Also I think The terrans have better tech in general. With tiomk being so supersticious and everything their tech is very low for sc2 standerds in most departments.

With terran it is sheer armament discrepancies that would kill them. As for the ground forces, refer to the opening cinematic of HOTS campaign, that is the capital world(I think) of the terran, and the zerg force is really not comparable to anything fluffwise the orks, IG, or 'nids can put out. In space it's even worse. The laser batteries have difficulties with mutalisks(referring to the escape from the first planet cinematic, WOL) which are akin to 2, maybe 3 gargoyles strapped together. And the Yamato cannon, which shuts down most other systems to fire, basically destroys a minor fortification, such as a bunker or similar.

As I detailed earlier in the thread, the only SC race I think could make a reasonable impact would be the Protoss

Terrans make me think of the Auretian Technocracy.

 PhrycePhyre wrote:
With terran it is sheer armament discrepancies that would kill them. As for the ground forces, refer to the opening cinematic of HOTS campaign, that is the capital world(I think) of the terran, and the zerg force is really not comparable to anything fluffwise the orks, IG, or 'nids can put out.

Anything nids, orks and the imperium can put out there can also be put down with a few well-placed tactical nukes. The biggest flaw with 40k is, that it just love to have those epic wars of apocalyptic proportions, with massive armies concentrated in the same small area, going all out on each other. Well sorry, but any army who fight in such a way just begs to have a big stupid bomb dropped on them. I’m just saying.

 PhrycePhyre wrote:
In space it's even worse. The laser batteries have difficulties with mutalisks(referring to the escape from the first planet cinematic, WOL) which are akin to 2, maybe 3 gargoyles strapped together.

That cinematic (like all other WOL cinematic) are what you call very “cinematic.” The battle cruiser had to have a hard time against the mutalisk, so to make it all seem more dramatic than it actually is. Battle cruisers generally eat mutalisks for dinner.

 PhrycePhyre wrote:
And the Yamato cannon, which shuts down most other systems to fire, basically destroys a minor fortification, such as a bunker or similar.

The in-game yamato cannon’s firepower has been massively scaled down duo to game balance, and is therefore not an accurate display of its power. The yamato cannons in their fluff are described using a “magnetic field to focus a small nuclear explosion into a cohesive beam of energy.” See the ST terran ending cinematic, for a more accurate display of the yamato cannon’s firepower.

 PhrycePhyre wrote:
As I detailed earlier in the thread, the only SC race I think could make a reasonable impact would be the Protoss

Again I have to disagree with you. Terrans are what the imperium could be, if it chose quality over quantity and innovation over narrow-mindedness.

On 40k vs Star Wars, the Imperium and GE are matched in terms of space firepower, both are in the gigatons for small anti-cap ship to petatons for really big prow mounted gun range.

The difference is that whereas the GE only has a few dozen super star destroyers/star dreadnoughts, the Imperium hands SSD sized battleships out like candy.

While the GE's Hyperdrive system is faster, it does not work without using preset routes made literally thousands of years ago because things in hyperspace that so much as brush against the gravitational fields of real space objects go splat and sensors in the SWverse don't work in hyperspace.

 Redcruisair wrote:
Anything nids, orks and the imperium can put out there can also be put down with a few well-placed tactical nukes. The biggest flaw with 40k is, that it just love to have those epic wars of apocalyptic proportions, with massive armies concentrated in the same small area, going all out on each other. Well sorry, but any army who fight in such a way just begs to have a big stupid bomb dropped on them. I’m just saying.

In a Universe where Carnifexes can survive Cyclonic torpedos a nuclear bomb isn't going to do much. And are Nukes even common in the Starcraft universe? it seems that if they were the terran would be using them out their wazo when fighting anyone. Are the large ground battles in 40k silly? somewhat. you forget that while these ground battles are happenening each sides fleet are up above them pounding away at each other. At leasts its not as Silly as "UNSC win most of the ground battle agianst the covenant.. while the covenant have full air and space supremacy".

 Redcruisair wrote:
That cinematic (like all other WOL cinematic) are what you call very “cinematic.” The battle cruiser had to have a hard time against the mutalisk, so to make it all seem more dramatic than it actually is. Battle cruisers generally eat mutalisks for dinner.
The in-game yamato cannon’s firepower has been massively scaled down duo to game balance, and is therefore not an accurate display of its power. The yamato cannons in their fluff are described using a “magnetic field to focus a small nuclear explosion into a cohesive beam of energy.” See the ST terran ending cinematic, for a more accurate display of the yamato cannon’s firepower.

The Terran battle cruiser(.5km in length) is no threat what soever to any faction in 40k. when your smallest Escort ship in the imperium is 1.4 KM in length and regularly shoots weapons that are stronger than a charged single shot cannon. you really cant do that much.

 Redcruisair wrote:
Again I have to disagree with you. Terrans are what the imperium could be, if it chose quality over quantity and innovation over narrow-mindedness.

I'll take a cadian shocktrooper over a Terran marine anyday of the week. a life time of combat experience with the best equipment a guardsmen needs vs a guy in powerarmor (crappy armor at that) given a rifle that has little to no training what so ever.

 Ninjacommando wrote:
In a Universe where Carnifexes can survive Cyclonic torpedos a nuclear bomb isn't going to do much.

There is absolutely no possible way you could ever convince me that a carnifex would be able to survive a fracking nuclear strike, when this dumb creature can die to a single frack grenade.

 Ninjacommando wrote:
And are Nukes even common in the Starcraft universe? it seems that if they were the terran would be using them out their wazo when fighting anyone.

Nuclear weaponry has been banned in Terran colonise, after the Confederate used them in mass against one of its revolting colonies (terran’s version of exterminatus.) Small tactical nukes are still employed by those Terrans, who have the facilities necessary to produce such weaponry.

 Ninjacommando wrote:
Are the large ground battles in 40k silly? somewhat. you forget that while these ground battles are happenening each sides fleet are up above them pounding away at each other. At leasts its not as Silly as "UNSC win most of the ground battle agianst the covenant.. while the covenant have full air and space supremacy".

It’s silly because at no point would an army ever be needed for anything other than as an occupation force. A large ground force serves no purpose when you have big ships that can blast entire world to ashes. All this is made even worse when these ships’ godly firepower is all the suddenly made obsolete by the enemy doing something as trivial as digging underground, or hiding inside a city with unbreakable void shields… Don’t get me wrong I’m not hating on 40k, but a lot its fluff is very silly IMO.

 Ninjacommando wrote:
The Terran battle cruiser(.5km in length) is no threat what soever to any faction in 40k. when your smallest Escort ship in the imperium is 1.4 KM in length and regularly shoots weapons that are stronger than a charged single shot cannon. you really cant do that much.

On this point I have to agree with you, Terran ships can’t compete with the big fishes of the 40k. Through I vaguer that Terran ships could operate very well as pirates in 40k.

 Ninjacommando wrote:
I'll take a cadian shocktrooper over a Terran marine anyday of the week. a life time of combat experience with the best equipment a guardsmen needs vs a guy in powerarmor (crappy armor at that) given a rifle that has little to no training what so ever.

Of course you would pick them over the Terran militia. Cadian shocktroopers are after all the finest soldiers of the imperium, equipped with the best weapons and armour available to humans.
The sad part here is that the common gear of the Terran militia is in all aspects superior to the shocktrooper's (bare protection perhaps.) Marines can operate under extreme conditions (deep space etc.) Shocktrooper can’t, therefore Terran marines wins by default.

I'm also pretty sure in some of the sc fluff the resoc tanks can be used to train troops as well as make people you want to do whatever you say do do it. If i remeber correctly from one of the books i've read the resoc tanks train both your mind and muscle memory at a rapid pace while you bascily sleep. So when you come out of it you are effectivly trained as good as if you trained your entire life in whatever they set the program for. It just tends to have the bad side effect that if you use the resock tanks to make people into your mindless army drones they may be highly trained but they end up having very little inmagination and intiative witch is how the confedarates and dominion liked it. But it make for poor troops because they tend to be very literal when given orders. Also bigger does not equal better nessacarily. Yes the imperials will most likely out match them in fire power but because they are so big and they also have worse sensors i will bet the terrans could most likely keep there capital ships out of harms way and send in their banshees and whatever thier original cloaked fighter ship is called in to cripple the huge capital ships then they can come in and yahmoto blast the crap out of them. And because they are so huge they would not be able to manuver out of the way. Also terran science vessals can use emp blast as weapons to cipple ships also. Also 40k psykers and sc pychics draw their powers from differnt places, terran psychic are your classic psychics who friggin use thier brains to cook yours, while 40k psychers draw thier powers from the immatreium or warp as they call it. so i doubt the terrans would have to much problems with chaos.

Terran is obviously Space Marines, or Imperial Guard, but closer to SM

Zerg is obviously Tyranids

Protoss is a mix of Tau and Eldar, but closer to Eldar in fluff and design

Xel'naga could be like the old ones, an ancient creator race

and I know nothing about the new races.

I myself always thought there should be more races in Starcraft anyhow. Starcraft was originally made to be warhammer 40k based anyway. If they made a 40k version of Starcraft it would be the best thing ever (and not that Dawn of War )