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Most of the Khador jacks are good, its just that they can't afford to run more than 1 or 2 at a time because they have spells to cast.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 grayshadow87 wrote:
Well, what type of army are you looking to play? That would give us an idea of what direction to help you expand. Also, what facets of Khador drew your interest in the first place?

Mostly the look. And im looking to play a jack heavy army.

This will not work.
Khador is not a 'Jack Faction
The few 'jack centric builds that work in khador are either narrow or sub-par performance wise.
If you want 'Jack-Centric and pick up Khador you will dislike the game.
Play Khador only if you want an infantry-centric army, focused on basic troops with a few elites.

You have the following options 3, and only 3 options:

1) Pick up Khador and forget how to count higher than "1" as far as 'Jacks go. Once in a while running into the exotic and oft misunderstood "2'. Learn to love conscripts, gangsters, snow-elves and dudes with pointy sticks.
2) Do not play Warmachine.
3) Waste your money.


I cannot overstate how l horrible a choice khador is for someone attracted to the "Big Stompy Things" side of the system. People going for 'Jack-Centric Khador is the #1 cause of player attrition for this game.

Khador + Love of 'Jacks = Bad Times. Full Stop. End of Story. Period.

Anyone going "Ok, yeah. 'Jack Centric Khador you could do [Some really narrow thing]" is either letting their passion/optimism about the game get in the way of being really honest about it, or just does not know what they're talking about.


EDIT: Nevermind. I see from later posts you've already gone ahead and picked up khador. Good luck, I guess. If you want to salvage some ability to enjoy this game keep your expectations about running 'Jacks realistic.

I do understand, I like most of the jack and infantry. A few f the infantry i do not like the look up(Kommandos come to mind) But I like the look of khador the most. SO i understand the infantry will be my biggest thing and run 1-2 jacks.

Thats good because Kommandos are one of the poorer infantry options Khador has.

Winter Guard, Kayazy, and Man-o-wars are all good infantry.

 Laughing Man wrote:
The Outriders are a lot of fun. With their sprays, they can slaughter infantry and fall back outside of charge range. Not terribly accurate, but their sprays ignore most DEF buffs, and with the Vlads (either Signs and Portents or Hand of Fate) they're scary accurate.

The Decimator isn't my favorite jack at the moment (it's a focus hog), but once Andrei comes out it'll probably be a go-to for me. The Marauder is an amazing jack in my opinion, and has some great movement shenanigans it can pull.

i havent actualy goten to see the grey lord outriders

Which casters interest you the most for Khador?

Butcher mostly(both of him). And Strakov

Not sure what those guys on the podcast are talking about, karchev is excellent and difficult for both you and the opponent to deal with. All his spells are good, although you really dont cast them all all the time, but then what warcaster really does? You are going to tow jacks around all game until you get stuck into combat, thats where the rest of them come into play, for situations that you may run into while in combat. Plus, if you run a kodiak in karchev's battlegroup and use it's cloud effect, then the whole battle group can sit at DEF14 (karchev at 17) against ranged attacks. Last I checked, DEF14/ARM20 with over 30 hit boxes is quite difficult to crack. And whats the problem with his feat!? Its awesome! Karchev basically solves all the problems that khador jacks have, low SPD, low DEF, and they are focus hungry. What more could you possibly want in a warcaster?

KingKodo wrote:
Not sure what those guys on the podcast are talking about, karchev is excellent and difficult for both you and the opponent to deal with. All his spells are good, although you really dont cast them all all the time, but then what warcaster really does? You are going to tow jacks around all game until you get stuck into combat, thats where the rest of them come into play, for situations that you may run into while in combat. Plus, if you run a kodiak in karchev's battlegroup and use it's cloud effect, then the whole battle group can sit at DEF14 (karchev at 17) against ranged attacks. Last I checked, DEF14/ARM20 with over 30 hit boxes is quite difficult to crack. And whats the problem with his feat!? Its awesome! Karchev basically solves all the problems that khador jacks have, low SPD, low DEF, and they are focus hungry. What more could you possibly want in a warcaster?

Wow... just feels like they're running the wrong type of list for him and complaining because his spells/feats don't do anything for the list they brought. :p

Ah well - I have him and I'm going to run him and have fun.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Butcher mostly(both of him). And Strakov

What jacks, units and solos interest you the most?

All the main heavy jacks interest me(The one that come in the single kit) and the spriggan(A robot with a giant lance? Yes please)
Units? Hmm. Greylord outriders, Greylord ternions. The Greatbears. Demo Corps(My friend says go bombadiers) and widowmakers
Solos.
I suppose The Man-o-war Drakun. The Uhlan Kovnik. The the Marksmen

Well, pButcher loves melee so demo corps get really nasty on his feat turn especially with fury.

eButcher loves high damage individual models.

Strakov is all about the alpha strike. His feat gives you great reach on your charges and makes your jacks a little more focus efficient.

The great thing is, there can be a lot of overlap between these casters in terms of unit choices. The butcher makes melee units like doom reavers and demo corps ridiculous. eButcher gives key high damage units an extra activation. Strakov makes slow melee units fast and fast melee units even faster. All of their melee focus doesn't mean you should not take ranged units. You still need ranged models to force your opponent to engage you and soften them up before you hit.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

All the main heavy jacks interest me(The one that come in the single kit) and the spriggan(A robot with a giant lance? Yes please)
Units? Hmm. Greylord outriders, Greylord ternions. The Greatbears. Demo Corps(My friend says go bombadiers) and widowmakers
Solos.
I suppose The Man-o-war Drakun. The Uhlan Kovnik. The the Marksmen

Sounds like you have an eye for most of Khadors go to options, the bombardiers are a unit with some potential on the table to cause carnage but are typically considered to be too expensive for what they do. I've quite a bit of success with my demo corp (usually at min unit size) and would be hard pressed to go without them. Have you looked at the greylord solo at all? He's typically considered to be one of khadors best jack marshalls for his abilities and can make it possible to get a force to 2-4 jack depending on set up. A marauder for instance can go with any marshall as it needs only 1 focus usually wherea other jacks are thirstier.

The mow drakhun is great. if you do get khador, go and get that model.

Beyond that, welcome to faction.

Yay, go Strakhov. I've written some battle reports here if you're interested. I started with Strakhov and lost a lot. I found him tricky because you need to get him in the right position in relation to your enemies.

I'd recommend playing your first few games with Butcher. His feat works off where your army is, so it's a little easier to get right. Plus his high ARM gives you a chance to survive an assassination attempt when you make a mistake.

But definitely go Strakhov, I'm getting the hang of him now and he's super fun.

There's also good news for Khador, journeyman warcasters are being released for all factions. These are solos that have focus and can run a warjack. So the dream of a 3 jack Khador list is not dead.

http://files.privateerpress.com/nq/nqplus/NQ_Kickstarter_Special_Edition.pdf here are the new casters, its probably best for just 3, ( depending on your caster, because bucher can run ALOT of jacks )

im just going to list through the castors as how many jacks i think they can run

p irusk - 1-2, as many focus as he has he is going to probably just take behemoth and just use the rest for his spells and support his troops, he is mainly a troop castor

e irusk - 1-2, again he is an infantry focus caster with only really 1 spell used for jacks and its sorta a waste if you use it unless you really really need them to move 3

kruchev - 3 - if he wants to be his best he needs 3, but his spell list limets him using 3. so he will be dificult to manage him and his 3 jacks ( other then the 2 for his jacks ) he will be hard for beginers


old bi- i mean witch, old witch - 0-1-2 - she is all about controling the field to what she wants to do, but 3 wj points are hard to play just 1 jack

p sorcha - 1 - 2 - she is for percistion attacks

e sorcha - 1 - 2 - same thing as sorcha, but better with a good powerfull jack, and great with wintergaurd

starkhov - 1( probably best one ) - 2 - he is to weaken your opoent before wiping them out

p vlad - 1 - vlad is a monster in cc but mostly his army is supporting him

e vlad - 1-2 - vlad is not as a monster as before but he can support his army better

zerkova - 1 - she is a spell castor, who has no arc nodes ._.

p butcher - as many as he damn well please - his full throttle saves you focus the more jacks you have, BUT they wont be able to make more attacks or boost damage as much because you will have so many jacks, its a win loose situation

e butcher - not as many as p butcher - e butcher is just to random, either he is amazing and your opponent will get their face curb stomped or you will be killed before your force can arrive, he is not for beginners because your whole game is around if butcher killed something
as long as he killed something that is your opponents then your force will be really really good for jacks, if he didnt then your jacks are gonna suffer

harkevich - 3 RANGED jacks - he is really really really good with anyhting in the army that has a gun, he is the cygnar castor for khador but with his own melee throw at it, just keep in mind that khador are much better at melee then they are at range they can play the shooting game but they will hurt more in melee ( with rat 4 around its not going to be easy to hit things either )

vlad 3 - 1 - vlad isnt as big of a monster as he was in 1st, but he isnt as supporty as he was in 2, but he is a mix of both while being stupidly fast, really, really, really ,really fast in your army and helping them become faster

Will the journeyman only be availabe if i join the KS?

Nope, he'll be released a few months after all the Kickstarter backers get theirs. The Kickstarter also gets you an exclusive alternate sculpt.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Will the journeyman only be availabe if i join the KS?

you get 1 of the journymen listed above if you pay 40 and you wont get the game

 jbsnv wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Will the journeyman only be availabe if i join the KS?

you get 1 of the journymen listed above if you pay 40 and you wont get the game

This is incorrect. The $40 level gets you both a limited edition sculpt and a copy of the game.

 Laughing Man wrote:

 jbsnv wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Will the journeyman only be availabe if i join the KS?

you get 1 of the journymen listed above if you pay 40 and you wont get the game

This is incorrect. The $40 level gets you both a limited edition sculpt and a copy of the game.

my bad

Huh, Im not that interested in the game(Atleast not yet)

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Huh, Im not that interested in the game(Atleast not yet)

Pledging for the game is the only way to get any of the exclusive sculpts. If you don't want the game, just wait a year or so and get the retail version.

Well I played the game today, ME using his khador V his Procterate. I realy love it, I watched a couple of other games. I like that games can take very short amount of time, but im nt sure how i feel about your caster dying winning the game for your opponent. But I loved it. I won the game but it was a march down a no mans land and i got first.
Cant wait to play this in full.

pButcher cannot effectively run many jacks, for a good, effective list, you should not have more than 1 until you get up to 35+ points, then maybe run 2 (I usually still run just 1 up to 35 point lists, I just take a more expensive one such as beast or spriggan). pButcher's full throttle makes it tempting to run many jacks, but, getting a free charge and two free boosted attacks on each jack is not that impressive since you will have at most, 3 focus to buy more attacks with. pButcher is just better off swinging with his own weapon and using the focus for himself rather than his jacks, he is one of the most dangerous melee characters in the game, he has the highest MAT and one of the most powerful attacks so there is little reason to take more models with high POW attacks, especially in low point games. You are better off taking models that can clear infantry or tarpit threats to prevent retaliation against the butcher, and then just use him to smash hard targets.

I would say that the only warcaster in khador that should run more than one jack in any list up to 35 points, is Karchev. Not saying you CANT run multiple jacks, its just that you will almost always get more mileage and use out of infantry and support units instead of the extra warjacks.

What if i was to get a beserker, Marshal him to a koldun lord for the extra focus. That way he can charge and run for free and get a focus for something

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
What if i was to get a beserker, Marshal him to a koldun lord for the extra focus. That way he can charge and run for free and get a focus for something

you could do that, just note you loose on its exploding ability, because jack marshals dont grant focus, they do allow you to do 1 focusy thing but its not focus

 jbsnv wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
What if i was to get a beserker, Marshal him to a koldun lord for the extra focus. That way he can charge and run for free and get a focus for something

you could do that, just note you loose on its exploding ability, because jack marshals dont grant focus, they do allow you to do 1 focusy thing but its not focus

@ hotsauceman1
sounds reasonable, berserker run/charges for free and gets 1 pseudo-focus, Koldun lord casts a spell or gives the berserker a real focus for 1 real and 1 psuedo-focus and a 1/6 chance of suicide bomb if you spend the real focus. Just don't rely on battle wizard, P+S 10 isn't all that good. light infantry are the only thing that can reliably be killed and solos or multi-wound models will survive. this means the good targets will probably have the rest of the unit kill him next round.

@ jbsnv
The Koldun Lord can grant a focus but personally I see the berserker suicide bomb as a hail marry move anyway. At best it's a 50% chance of trading 6 points for an 8 inch (base of 2 + 3 either side) blast at pow 14. heavy infantry and jacks won't reliably die and most light infantry aren't worth that much.

If you are going to marshall at all I suggest getting the jr warcaster for khador , so much excellence for so little price, I do feel sorry for bad santa as he probably won't be getting much use now :(

What do you guys think about the Conquest? worth it´s points + $ or would you rather take a regular heavy jack?

tommse wrote:
What do you guys think about the Conquest? worth it´s points + $ or would you rather take a regular heavy jack?

depends on your list, the conquest's blast spam is only really good if your fighting a stealth heavy army, its range isnt really reliable, but its melee will crush anything and everything

it ultametly goes down on your castor and how you play it


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Bullockist wrote:
If you are going to marshall at all I suggest getting the jr warcaster for khador , so much excellence for so little price, I do feel sorry for bad santa as he probably won't be getting much use now :(

if your going to jack marshal and you have a shield wall unit get the iron fang kovnic its only 2 points and its a huge buffer to infantry and can carry a jack