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 Hyrule Hero wrote:

 Frozen Ocean wrote:
Oh yeah, watching an entire brood of Genestealers successfully outflank right next to a squad of Grey Knight Paladins and then immediately get shot to death before they can do anything is just lovely.

What is even the point in outflanking and infiltrating if you can't charge after? All it does is kill the usefulness of melee units, while shooting units have a grand old time of it. Shooting units that the Tyranids don't have!

One of the big changes we need to see. If they don't want to make it an army wide rule at least give it to some major units that need to assaultt after coming on the board i.e. genestealers and lictors. Ymgarls can do it! why not other things

Or even having it as an upgrade (though i like this less and it would have to be cheap if they did) that different units can purchase. Just something to get the genestealers, one of the most iconic Tyranid creatures, back on the board!

It couldn't be cheap...it would be at least 5 pts per model. And would probably be a broodlord only upgrade...or maybe the broodlord will go back into the HQ slot and taking him as an HQ will allow a unit to assault out of outflank.

More likely...there will be a warlord trait that gives assault out of reserve to the warlords unit

I've had some thoughts about what they might end up doing with Zoanthropes. I could imagine them becoming Brotherhood of Psykers, with Mastery Level equal to the number of Thropes in the unit. Thus, the unit would roll powers, not individual Thropes. Also, it would allow Tyranids some much needed Warp Charge 2 love. I find it hard to believe Zoanthropes will retain their individual unique powers, which they can trade in for two rolls on a chart.

Perhaps, they might also get nerfed, with their Invuln Save increasing with the number of Thropes in the unit, up from 5+ with one Thrope.

rollawaythestone wrote:
I've had some thoughts about what they might end up doing with Zoanthropes. I could imagine them becoming Brotherhood of Psykers, with Mastery Level equal to the number of Thropes in the unit. Thus, the unit would roll powers, not individual Thropes. Also, it would allow Tyranids some much needed Warp Charge 2 love. I find it hard to believe Zoanthropes will retain their individual unique powers, which they can trade in for two rolls on a chart.

Perhaps, they might also get nerfed, with their Invuln Save increasing with the number of Thropes in the unit, up from 5+ with one Thrope.

Doubt that. Zoeys need the 3+ ivuln to be effective at 18" range

My personal opinion and prediction is this.

Brotherhood of psykers Mastery = # of models alive in the unit

stats stay the same...power stays the same...add a large blast with higher AP and maybe range to the power

access to telekinesis and telepathy only

A quick scan through the first page is enough for me.

I miss 4th Ed nids too. Loved carnifex’s... Not anymore.
Loved Lictors, Not anymore.
Loved Tyrants, but they’re double the price now.
Loved Warriors, but no so much anymore.
Loved Rippers with leaping. Rippers are useless now.
Loads of the new models are either useless or don’t exist.
& loads of the existing models have boat loads of upgrades in the box’s that don’t mean anything?!?
Bring back Biomorphs, Living Ammo & Eternal Warrior on Synapse. On the plus side though, without the 5th Ed codex, we’d have never had Trygons or Tervigons, & they ROCK!!!!
With any luck, in the next 6 months, I’ll be able to run a Hive Tyrant with BS4 again, maybe even a Carnifex as an Elite, & fingers crossed, a Trygon with a 2+ Sv!

Only time will tell I guess.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh god, also. I hope these rumors about ‘Cultists’ aren’t gonna come true. I really don’t want Guardsmen in my Tyranid Army. It just doesn’t seem right.

I actually quite like the Nid Codex at the moment, its better than one of the old codex's I used to play with.

The only issue I have is that there are not enough high strength or AP weapons. The only way to get those is to sacrifice a lot of units to get it. Range is also an issue, the long range weapons except for the Venom Cannon / Stranglethorn etc are really low strength / AP.

I do not use Tervigons, I do not even own any, I have watched many games and they seem to me at least to be boring, the lucky dice rolls for spawning annoy me as well.

I have enough models to effectively change how I play everygame. I often go with half the army as flyers and the rest as outflanking / reserves / mawlocs.

My tactics are get in the opponents face asap and wreak havoc. I do not think there is any other army in the game who can attack with the speed that nids can.

Tyranids aren't meant to do long ranged high strength or AP shooting - that's why it's limited and expensive. Their high strength attacks are meant to come from big monsters hitting things. Their firepower in 40k has historically been numeroous, but short ranged and focused on anti infantry, which gives Tyranids a unique playsstyle of short ranged shooting backed up by close assault and a few long range heavy hitters sprinkled in.

I'd suggest at least proxying a Tervigon for a few games - I was reluctant to use them as well, preferring Hormagaunts for my troops. But the Tervigon is a real workhorse unit - with Crushing Claws and Smash, it's lethal in assault to buildings and vehicles (which are easier to catch in 6th), it hands out toxin sacs and adrenal glands to Termagants if you take the options, and can get up to 3 powers. If you roll Biomancy, you can get some great melee buffs, enemy debuffs and army buffs. It's also quite tough, with lots of wounds which makes a great synapse anchor, and can be a scoring MC. It's spawning ability is rather secondary.

As for speed - Dark Eldar do it better. What I've found Tyranids do best is unrelenting assault. My games where I've won soundly have been because I stuck to a formation, and slowly but surely walked my way up the table destroying things and distracting my opponent with stray suicide units or deep striking MCs. When I've won, I've had most of my army left slowly surrounding and destroying any survivors. Which is exactly how Tyranids fight in the fluff!

^QFT

Tervigons are just money. Especially in 6th where they can be retro-fitted into the assault tank that a carnifex should be. Spawning at least 1 extra troop unit, average 2, is icing on the cake.

Let's do a comparison:

Carnifex, crushing claws, adrenal glands - 195 pts. Non-scoring, no psychic powers, only 4 wounds, 5+D3 s10 attacks on the charge (no re-rolls to pen)

Tervigon, crushing claws, catalyst - 200 pts. Scoring. guaranteed feel no pain psychic power, or chance to roll on biomancy for warp speed, iron arm, etc. When smashing, 3+D3 attacks on the charge (or 3+D3+D3 with warp speed). 6 wounds.

When put side by side, it's shameful that the 'support' MC can do equally as well (and sometimes better than) the 'living tank' that is the carnifex. I'm hoping this is one of the many issues addressed in the new book - not that tervigons get weaker, but rather that carnifex models get stronger (or stay the same, but have their base points cost drop by about 40).

 -Loki- wrote:
Tyranids aren't meant to do long ranged high strength or AP shooting - that's why it's limited and expensive. Their high strength attacks are meant to come from big monsters hitting things. Their firepower in 40k has historically been numeroous, but short ranged and focused on anti infantry, which gives Tyranids a unique playsstyle of short ranged shooting backed up by close assault and a few long range heavy hitters sprinkled in.

I'd suggest at least proxying a Tervigon for a few games - I was reluctant to use them as well, preferring Hormagaunts for my troops. But the Tervigon is a real workhorse unit - with Crushing Claws and Smash, it's lethal in assault to buildings and vehicles (which are easier to catch in 6th), it hands out toxin sacs and adrenal glands to Termagants if you take the options, and can get up to 3 powers. If you roll Biomancy, you can get some great melee buffs, enemy debuffs and army buffs. It's also quite tough, with lots of wounds which makes a great synapse anchor, and can be a scoring MC. It's spawning ability is rather secondary.

As for speed - Dark Eldar do it better. What I've found Tyranids do best is unrelenting assault. My games where I've won soundly have been because I stuck to a formation, and slowly but surely walked my way up the table destroying things and distracting my opponent with stray suicide units or deep striking MCs. When I've won, I've had most of my army left slowly surrounding and destroying any survivors. Which is exactly how Tyranids fight in the fluff!

no gaunts and no tervigons are my personal rules, if I need a shield I just use gargoyles

Space Marine Vanguards just lost the ability to assault out of deepstrike...guess what is most likely going to happen to ymgarls...I would expect ymgarls to get more specialized in what they do and lose their assaultiness.

 ductvader wrote:
Space Marine Vanguards just lost the ability to assault out of deepstrike...guess what is most likely going to happen to ymgarls...I would expect ymgarls to get more specialized in what they do and lose their assaultiness.

When did that happen? I haven't heard that and want to make sure I'm still playing right.

It did not happen to ymgarls...the SM leaks show that Vanguards are losing it this september.

 ductvader wrote:
Space Marine Vanguards just lost the ability to assault out of deepstrike...guess what is most likely going to happen to ymgarls...I would expect ymgarls to get more specialized in what they do and lose their assaultiness.

I don't like that idea. To me, Ymgarls can assault out of "deepstrike" because they're not deep striking, or outflanking. They're dormant and hidden. They've basically been on the board the entire game and when they become available via reserve rolls, that's when they choose to wake up and attack. It's like improved infiltration essentially. They're not sneaking onto the board... they were already there, hiding in the floors and walls. It's very Tyranid-y, I would be surprised (and extremely disappointed) if we lost that.

I'm not saying its different or that its similar...just that its likely.

None of us like it...perhaps we'll get a warlord trait that allows assault out of reserves.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
and if we do you can bet it will come stock on swarmy

Discussion regarding the new Tyranid rumors for those who follow this thread, but not the News & Rumors forum:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/545791.page

Hm...to be honest...the audience here seems to complain a lot less.

I personally like to stay out of the Rumor and List threads as I find that people are more sociable and friendly in tactics and general discussion

Plus wishlisting/OT comments aren't frowned upon by the modquisition nearly as much.

so in that vein -- what would you folks like to see from this new "super-synapse" bug? I think the feel no pain bubble is a mandatory inclusion - I had such codex envy as soon as the sanguinary priest was included in the blood angel codex, just after our current nid book released.

"We have a monstrous creature, that after a psychic test can grant 1 unit feel no pain!"

"...we have a 50 point guy that gives feel no pain to all units within 6". And he's an IC"


"FUUUUUUUU!"

If it's indeed a dominatrix type super MC...i am wondering if it will be an HQ...GW likes to put these in HEAVY and ELITE...our ELITE slot is so packed full its a joke...the heavy could take it...but personally it seems like a creature you only want one of...there comes a point where force multipliers plateau off.

Honestly...I think they may have been on the right track...swarmy's boosting abilities might get transferred into this creature...and he might be our "autarch" or "astropath" for reserves manipulation. And powerful enough to go toe to toe with a bloodthirster as usual.

I want the dom to push out USRs...but more than that...I want synapse to mean more.Honestly...I never even track my synapse....I want an advantage/disadvantage feel to it that means I am rewarded but restricted to staying in it.

That needs to change before the dom can do any real good. 4 powers? I want some buffs and some telepathic debuffs, brain paralyzing stuff

T6-7 W6 3+sv maybe a 5+ warp field

Yes, warp field needs to exist on our synapse creatures, not just zoanthropes! No access to invulnerable saves really makes the tyranids extra vulnerable to rending, eldar baby-rending, and all the slews of plasma and other ap2 weaponry on the tables these days.

graviton weapons makes me hope for a 3+ over a 2+...odd right?

If it really is a super psychic leader bug, I really don't mind as long as they stick to the history of making new units rather than crap all over the Dominatrix fluff. Making it big but hunched over on the oval base makes sense (and fits the current aesthetic), and not at all like the previous 'as big to the Tervigon as the Wraithknight was to the Wraithlord' absurdity.

Making it bad in assault, but massively powerful psychically as well as handing out army buffs leaves me wondering where the Swarmlords place is. Right now, he does that (though is slightly worse off psychically) on top of being the games best beatstick.

Im wondering what's going to happen to old Swarmy - toned down psychic powers even further? Lose his army buffing ability to be pure beatstick? But that doesn't fit the fluff he has.

It's a cool concept for a bug though. Maybe there will be a sort of hierarchy. Hive Tyrants are the beatsticks with added psychic powers. Swarmlord is the ultimate beatstick with added army support. This new bug drops the beatstick component entirely and becomes the ultimate psychic monstrosity and army supporter.

New Termagants with more poses would be welcome at least to add some visual diversity to my growing swam of Termagants. Plus adding Spike Rifles and Strangle Webs will be great if they also make them worth taking.

The new rumour about Tyranids have two psychic decks - destructive and augmentative - is nice. You can kit out, say, your Tervigons to augment and support while your beatstick Hive Tyrants go full offensive.

I'm liking the rumours a lot - but their odd frequency has me a touch worried that it's simply wishlisting. Rumours haven't come out this close togehter since GW clamped down.

I’d love to be able to make Tervigons spawn Hormogaunts, for a points cost of course. Also, if they made Tervigons a straight ‘troop’ choice, I’d buy another 3 (I have 3 because I’m a douche), then pay for that upgrade, & be throwing H.Gaunts all over the place. I really do prefer H.G’s to standard Gaunts. I’ve got so many normal Gaunts I just throw them all into a plastic bag to take with me to games. The guy above nailed another thing (LOKI). Some new Gaunt poses would be nice. I have been doing my own by bending the tails & re basing them with green stuff, but there is only so much you can do.
I’d love to have some Tyranid specific psychic powers. I do really like Biomancy, but I have had a spate of rolling hemorrhage recently, which is quite annoying. I know we have a few powers already (that were pretty brutal when they came out), but they are kinda tired now IMO.
A new big bug - YES, I would love one, no, in fact, I demand one! Some colossal bad boy that makes everything else look puny would be sweet. Have your opponent firing everything it’s got at it the whole game just to take it down, with the mentality of ‘must kill the big thing’, while my tiny Trygons walk up the board & kill everything in their path!

I’d also love to be able to take Gargoyles as Troops, if you take the wings upgrade on a Tyrant. That would make for some sweet gaming. Hello Harridan??? Makes sense, you know it does!

One thing I REALLY don’t want to see is cultists. I’m already converting a boat load of Guardsmen into Zombies, I can except this as I think it does fit for Chaos, but not for my bugs, please, just no... No ,matter how good they’d be.

I’d love to see the new codex in November (as it’s my Birthday), but I don’t expect it for a while yet. Another member mentioned some stuff about how they release stuff (think it was another thread), & I believe he was right. With the amount of stuff that’s missing from the codex, they have a lot of work to do to make all units available. Unless they just scrap all the none model units & start all over. But lets hope they don’t do that. I quite want a drop spore.

Gnaaaah.

Brood nests. Look them up. That's how Hormagaunts reproduce. Not in Tervigons.

 -Loki- wrote:
Gnaaaah.

Brood nests. Look them up. That's how Hormagaunts reproduce. Not in Tervigons.

Speaking of... I'd love to see some reflection in the rules about how Hormagaunts operate. They can infest a planet very quickly by laying eggs during the invasion, becoming a problem to eradicate even if the main swarm is defeated. Getting Without Number back for them seems really appropriate.

There was also a cool piece of fluff in the codex about the Swarmlord forcing Hormagaunts to play dead as part of an ambush, before rising up to help beat the crap out of Calgar. It help reflect the swarm nature of Nids if HQ units like the Swarmlord could do ambush attacks like that - creating a small unit nearby for distraction or harassment.

Purely speculative here, but a thought just occurred to me: what if a new kit makes a mycetic spore or a brood nest? It wouldn't be hard, use the bottom half as the same design and modify the top.

Brood nests would be deployed via infiltrate and when a unit using one arrives from reserves it could move/shoot/assault from it. The 6th Ed balance would be the opponent has the chance to destroy the nest before reserves arrive.

I believe that as it stands...brood nests are deployed before infiltrate...like spore mines.

We will not see a hormagaunt spawning creature.

I do think that indescribable horror is going to be more powerful and perhaps come stock on...and maybe only on the dominatrix to prevent it from getting assaulted.

Now...the biggest question I have is what happens ccw.

Do boneswords stay at ignores armor? That way they dont have ap2 against vehicles? Will they get their own version of bladestorm? AP2...3? I can't see AP3 as right now they arent too common and are they only solid way to deal with 2+ sv...which gw is obviously trying to turn away from with graviton weapons.

are any of our creatures getting an ap on their claws? Hormagaunts and stealers at 6 would be nice...right now orks are shooting my beasties up and then able to beat them in assault....the gaunts not the stealers

On to FoC
(the ideas/rumors I have heard and give merit to)

what do you think of them?

Tervigon is HQ ONLY
Broodlord to HQ
Ymgarls to TROOP upgrade for stealers

other FoC rumors
Tervigon to HEAVY
Pyrovore to HEAVY
Gargoyles to TROOP
Shrikes to TROOP

The gargoyle/shrike as troop would only work for me if a flying tyrant was what made them so. The other FOC swaps would be acceptable, but really only if the expanded FOC turns out to be real.

Another speculation-the flying tyrant kit has 1 free set of arm slots for ranged/cc weapons. His "feet" are actually scything talons. Don't be surprised when taking wings on a tyrant automatically sets one of his weapon slots as scytals. Making the double-devourer flrant a relic of old.

 ductvader wrote:
Do boneswords stay at ignores armor? That way they dont have ap2 against vehicles?

Yep. Right now Boneswords are AP-, ignore all armour saves.

 -Loki- wrote:

 ductvader wrote:
Do boneswords stay at ignores armor? That way they dont have ap2 against vehicles?

Yep. Right now Boneswords are AP-, ignore all armour saves.

I was asking what people might think happens to them...

 ductvader wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

 ductvader wrote:
Do boneswords stay at ignores armor? That way they dont have ap2 against vehicles?

Yep. Right now Boneswords are AP-, ignore all armour saves.

I was asking what people might think happens to them...

Sadly i feel as though they will become AP3 as power weapons, since they're not unwieldy. The GW design team could easily determine that monstrous creatures give us enough AP2 close combat prowess, that the swords would get a nerf. Hopefully this will come along with a price reduction, as well as maintaining their current instant death ability....Or just make them force weapons.