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 Seaward wrote:

 d-usa wrote:

Point being is that you have absolutely zero resistance to taking my money if you feel that you have done something to earn it, even if I don't think that you deserve it.

You don't think members of the military have a right to get paid? Or just that they shouldn't be entitled to programs like the GI Bill?

I'm going to love this response, I can tell.

You don't think that it is wrong for children to starve and sleep hungry because their parents didn't live up to your expectations?

I'm going to love this repsonse, I can tell.

But we can fire a whole lot of military personel and contracts and get those people off the public dough and force them to survive in the private sector without suffering negative consequences.

Do I think military people should get paid, sure. Do I think we need to spend more money on a government jobs program than how many other nations combined? Nope.

Like I said. Everyone, say hello to The Island.

Well, this is starting to go on tangents now, so I'm gonna bring my point back very concisely:

Seaward, unless you were born Jeremiah Johnson and have lived entirely independent from the rest of society, then you have already reaped its rewards. Part of those rewards, comes with the tacit agreement that you will also enable (via taxes, etc) others to both contribute and benefit from those benefits.

To think that you have gotten to wherever you are today exclusively on your own merits is silly on its face.

 d-usa wrote:
You don't think that it is wrong for children to starve and sleep hungry because their parents didn't live up to your expectations?

Nah, I think it's wrong for them to starve and sleep hungry because some people (hypocrites, I call 'em) would rather buy assault marines with that money.

But I also don't think you should get a free ride just for existing.

But we can fire a whole lot of military personel and contracts and get those people off the public dough and force them to survive in the private sector without suffering negative consequences.

Go nuts. I'm doing quite well in the private sector.

Do I think we need to spend more money on a government jobs program than how many other nations combined?

How many other jobs programs can you name that give you such a high chance of experiencing incoming fire?

Seaward wrote:How many other jobs programs can you name that give you such a high chance of experiencing incoming fire?

LEOs and teachers, to start with. But they don't get the save level of reverence for some reason.

 azazel the cat wrote:
LEOs and teachers, to start with. But they don't get the save level of reverence for some reason.

Leaving aside the absurdity of suggesting teachers are as likely to see combat as your average enlistee, it's worth pointing out that we have programs to pay for their education, too.

 Seaward wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
You don't think that it is wrong for children to starve and sleep hungry because their parents didn't live up to your expectations?

Nah, I think it's wrong for them to starve and sleep hungry because some people (hypocrites, I call 'em) would rather buy assault marines with that money.

But I also don't think you should get a free ride just for existing.

Because keeping children from starving = a free ride just for existing. That's why there is zero point to talking to people like you.

But we can fire a whole lot of military personel and contracts and get those people off the public dough and force them to survive in the private sector without suffering negative consequences.

Go nuts. I'm doing quite well in the private sector.

Congratulations. I am happy that going to a school funded with public money and receiving training paid for with public funds enabled you to be successful.

Do I think we need to spend more money on a government jobs program than how many other nations combined?

How many other jobs programs can you name that give you such a high chance of experiencing incoming fire?

Oh look, it's the BS "we take fire" excuse.

A) You choose the job, nobody forced you to do it. Don't use a BS "it's risky" excuse if you decided that the money was worth it.
B) Every other country has the same risk, and is able to spend less money on their military than us.
C) We can have the same military abilities for a lot less money. Just because it is risky doesn't make it any less of a bloated public jobs program than it is.

And you are still showing how much you are "The Island". Keep it up.

Frazzled wrote:Thats because you just wouldn't understand the personal experience of my people, and what we've been through.

As a white male, age 18-35 and born into an upper-middle-class family of european descent in one of the best places on Earth, I suspect that I would understand the personal experience of "your people" quite well.

You would be wrong.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 d-usa wrote:
Hunger and malnutrition is a great exmple of how "the individuals should handle charity" just doesn't work.

We almost eliminated childhood hunger at one point, then conservatives happened and they cut food programs saying "individual charity and churches and stuff will step in". Now children go to bed hungry and malnurished every night.

I'm sorry. Who exactly is hungry again? Please show real instances where the WIC is not sold off for something else.

 d-usa wrote:

Because keeping children from starving = a free ride just for existing. That's why there is zero point to talking to people like you.

Wait, we're pretending now that food for children is the only welfare program you support now?

Congratulations. I am happy that going to a school funded with public money and receiving training paid for with public funds enabled you to be successful.

Cute. Hilariously misleading, but cute.

Did you go to a public school? If so, why aren't we paid the same?

Oh look, it's the BS "we take fire" excuse.

Not nearly as BS as the, "It's just another job" excuse. Frankly, I'm surprised you had the balls to type that.

A) You choose the job, nobody forced you to do it. Don't use a BS "it's risky" excuse if you decided that the money was worth it.

I'm sorry, the money? Hahahahahahahaha. Jesus.

Anyway, yeah. You choose to go in. You choose to make that commitment. But pretending that it's not a commitment, and that it's the same as working in the private sector, is hilarious.

B) Every other country has the same risk, and is able to spend less money on their military than us.

Now you're just trolling.

C) We can have the same military abilities for a lot less money. Just because it is risky doesn't make it any less of a bloated public jobs program than it is.

Yeah. As trollfest as it gets.

So pointing out that other countries can manage their military and national security for a fraction of our costs is trolling?

We spend more on our military than the entire government budget of Australia. There are only 10 countries in the world that spend more on their entire budget than we do on our military.

Yes, we can cut that. And to pretend otherwise is just stupid.

And quit pretending that you and the private sector reaped the benefits of your publicly funded education and training.

 d-usa wrote:
So pointing out that other countries can manage their military and national security for a fraction of our costs is trolling?

We spend more on our military than the entire government budget of Australia. There are only 10 countries in the world that spend more on their entire budget than we do on our military.

You think Australia faces the same risks we do? Because that's precisely what you said. It's an interesting and incredibly naive point of view.

And quit pretending that you and the private sector reaped the benefits of your publicly funded education and training.

And again, cute, but misleading.

I'm perfectly fine with public funds spent on people who contribute to society, or at the very least put in effort. That's kind of the basis of merit scholarships, not coincidentally: work your ass off in high school, show yourself to be someone who's going to make a difference, and get rewarded with a lessened or entirely absolved financial burden.

You're more than welcome to try out a cruise if you think any of it was "free," though.

 Seaward wrote:
That one's easy. If you sucked in high school, time to hit up the student loan store.

This quote can go feth itself. I graduated with honors from my high school, had a 3.5+ GPA, and still had to take out federal and private student loans...

 Alfndrate wrote:

 Seaward wrote:
That one's easy. If you sucked in high school, time to hit up the student loan store.

This quote can go feth itself. I graduated with honors from my high school, had a 3.5+ GPA, and still had to take out federal and private student loans...

What'd the kid(s) from your school who ended up with free rides get?

 Seaward wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:

 Seaward wrote:
That one's easy. If you sucked in high school, time to hit up the student loan store.

This quote can go feth itself. I graduated with honors from my high school, had a 3.5+ GPA, and still had to take out federal and private student loans...

What'd the kid(s) from your school who ended up with free rides get?

You're changing your argument.

Chongara wrote:
You're changing your argument.

Nope. The argument is, "Work your ass off and be better than everyone else." It pays to be a winner.

 Seaward wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:

 Seaward wrote:
That one's easy. If you sucked in high school, time to hit up the student loan store.

This quote can go feth itself. I graduated with honors from my high school, had a 3.5+ GPA, and still had to take out federal and private student loans...

What'd the kid(s) from your school who ended up with free rides get?

No one got a free ride at my school, athletes got a disproportionate amount of scholarship money, but my university doesn't give full rides. You could be from the poorest of the poor, graduated high school with a 4.2 (some schools use this for weighted and AP classes), and gotten a 36 and an 1800 on your ACT and SAT respectively, and the school would still make them pay 2 to 5 grand.

And you are technically changing your argument, you said don't suck in high school. I didn't suck in high school, hell the maximum merit based aid that my school gives for students entering this year (2013-2014) is 15,000 a year. That barely covers 1/3rd of tuition.

Man, Seaward, you are something special. I wish I could bottle you.

I wonder how many of the many many soldiers on this forum just did laundry on a fob for a year and came home.

It's so risky being part of the most massively powerful military force on the planet, too. I mean, the american navy, they're really up against it! It must be tough on those carriers with billions of dollars worth of defenses between you and your impoverished, desperate enemies.

I salute you Seaward!

 Seaward wrote:

Chongara wrote:
You're changing your argument.

Nope. The argument is, "Work your ass off and be better than everyone else." It pays to be a winner.

That's not what was in the post he was quoting and responding to.

 Da Boss wrote:
It's so risky being part of the most massively powerful military force on the planet, too. I mean, the american navy, they're really up against it! It must be tough on those carriers with billions of dollars worth of defenses between you and your impoverished, desperate enemies.

I salute you Seaward!

You're going to want to stop this line of thinking.

 Rented Tritium wrote:
I wonder how many of the many many soldiers on this forum just did laundry on a fob for a year and came home.

I have it on good authority that Jihadin was PLO.

 djones520 wrote:

 Da Boss wrote:
It's so risky being part of the most massively powerful military force on the planet, too. I mean, the american navy, they're really up against it! It must be tough on those carriers with billions of dollars worth of defenses between you and your impoverished, desperate enemies.

I salute you Seaward!

You're going to want to stop this line of thinking.

Am I?
It's unnacceptable to be flippant about the US military on these boards now?
Pffft.

 djones520 wrote:

 Da Boss wrote:
It's so risky being part of the most massively powerful military force on the planet, too. I mean, the american navy, they're really up against it! It must be tough on those carriers with billions of dollars worth of defenses between you and your impoverished, desperate enemies.

I salute you Seaward!

You're going to want to stop this line of thinking.

Uh... full stop. No.

Do not tell people to stop THINKING things.

That is never acceptable.

 Da Boss wrote:

 djones520 wrote:

 Da Boss wrote:
It's so risky being part of the most massively powerful military force on the planet, too. I mean, the american navy, they're really up against it! It must be tough on those carriers with billions of dollars worth of defenses between you and your impoverished, desperate enemies.

I salute you Seaward!

You're going to want to stop this line of thinking.

Am I?
It's unnacceptable to be flippant about the US military on these boards now?
Pffft.

To mock the danger that we face is complete and utter bs. Every day I'm at work I'm providing support for the aircraft that are carrying the remains of the Solders, Sailors, Marines, and Airmen who paid the ultimate sacrifice. Every day I work with the agency that coordinates the transport of the tens of thousands of wounded personnel back to the States. We face VERY real dangers every day, whether it's from an enemies bullet, or it's from the extreme hazards that can be found on the flight deck of those multi-billion dollar carriers, and you mocking it does nothing but degrade yourself.

 Seaward wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:

 Seaward wrote:
That one's easy. If you sucked in high school, time to hit up the student loan store.

This quote can go feth itself. I graduated with honors from my high school, had a 3.5+ GPA, and still had to take out federal and private student loans...

What'd the kid(s) from your school who ended up with free rides get?

My boy had a 4.6 average (A). Genghis Connie's never seen an A- much less a B, but she's literally off all the standardized charts. Its almost like she's the future Empress of The First Human Empire or something...

 djones520 wrote:

 Da Boss wrote:

 djones520 wrote:

 Da Boss wrote:
It's so risky being part of the most massively powerful military force on the planet, too. I mean, the american navy, they're really up against it! It must be tough on those carriers with billions of dollars worth of defenses between you and your impoverished, desperate enemies.

I salute you Seaward!

You're going to want to stop this line of thinking.

Am I?
It's unnacceptable to be flippant about the US military on these boards now?
Pffft.

To mock the danger that we face is complete and utter bs. Every day I'm at work I'm providing support for the aircraft that are carrying the remains of the Solders, Sailors, Marines, and Airmen who paid the ultimate sacrifice. Every day I work with the agency that coordinates the transport of the tens of thousands of wounded personnel back to the States. We face VERY real dangers every day, whether it's from an enemies bullet, or it's from the extreme hazards that can be found on the flight deck of those multi-billion dollar carriers, and you mocking it does nothing but degrade yourself.

And you did it so you could come back here and police people's thoughts on an internet message board.

 Da Boss wrote:
It's so risky being part of the most massively powerful military force on the planet, too. I mean, the american navy, they're really up against it! It must be tough on those carriers with billions of dollars worth of defenses between you and your impoverished, desperate enemies.

I salute you Seaward!

Well, that's true. Nobody ever dies on the flight deck, behind the boat, or in the air, and God knows there's not potential ANGLICO tours for aviators, or even IAs for SWOs. Since the Marines have their own organic medics, corpsmen don't ever need to deploy with them out in the field, and guys working ashore at FOBs never get mortared. EOD and NSW, meanwhile, have completely sat out the current round of conflict.

 djones520 wrote:

 Da Boss wrote:

 djones520 wrote:

 Da Boss wrote:
It's so risky being part of the most massively powerful military force on the planet, too. I mean, the american navy, they're really up against it! It must be tough on those carriers with billions of dollars worth of defenses between you and your impoverished, desperate enemies.

I salute you Seaward!

You're going to want to stop this line of thinking.

Am I?
It's unnacceptable to be flippant about the US military on these boards now?
Pffft.

To mock the danger that we face is complete and utter bs. Every day I'm at work I'm providing support for the aircraft that are carrying the remains of the Solders, Sailors, Marines, and Airmen who paid the ultimate sacrifice. Every day I work with the agency that coordinates the transport of the tens of thousands of wounded personnel back to the States. We face VERY real dangers every day, whether it's from an enemies bullet, or it's from the extreme hazards that can be found on the flight deck of those multi-billion dollar carriers, and you mocking it does nothing but degrade yourself.

Well apparently it's also pissed you off.

Not changing my opinion. Starting two invasions off the back of a terrorist attack is a political and strategic decision made by the US. I don't have extra special sympathy or respect for soldiers doing their job that they get paid for and chose to do. If they were drafted, or were defending their homeland directly, I'd have more sympathy, and indeed I did in the direct aftermath of 9/11. At this stage, I've run out of it.
FWIW btw, my brother served in the Royal Marines in Afghanistan, and I'd say the exact same thing to his face. Get tired of the holier than thou attitudes from military on this board.

 kronk wrote:

 Rented Tritium wrote:
I wonder how many of the many many soldiers on this forum just did laundry on a fob for a year and came home.

I have it on good authority that Jihadin was PLO.

I have it on good authority Jihadin is actually Major Alan Shaefer. Just call him "Dutch." For some reason he likes to roll in mud and make home made arrows a lot now. He keeps mumbling about that "ugly mutha fua," too. I wonder who that is.

 Alfndrate wrote:
And you are technically changing your argument, you said don't suck in high school. I didn't suck in high school, hell the maximum merit based aid that my school gives for students entering this year (2013-2014) is 15,000 a year. That barely covers 1/3rd of tuition.

Suckage is comparative.

15,000 a year barely covers 1/3 of tuition? Jesus, dude, you needed to move to Virginia.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Da Boss wrote:
Get tired of the holier than thou attitudes from military on this board.

Then you're missing the point.

It has nothing to do with being holier than thou, and everything to do with the ludicrous vacancy of all mental faculties it requires to equate individuals who provide a service to their country with people taking advantage of welfare programs. One gives, the other simply takes.