Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey everyone,
I was building up my Tau army and I feel like I am missing some diversity as I am running a ton of suits and fire warriors basically and a piranha ( I think its awesome for 40 points in my opinion).
I am looking at some Kroot for a way to get into close combat but it looks like they kinda suck. I am also looking at vespids because they have some ap3 weapons pretty rare, but I think they have good movement and are better in close combat but I am not sure.

What is your opinions on these units?
Should I get kroot or vespids?

p.s also I am not really looking for anything super competitive but something I can kill some troops while being able to get into close combat.

Kroot, vespids have low survivabilty for their point costs. and Ion Cannon can do their job.
Kroot no longer are close combat, nothing in the tau army is actually. they are snipers meant to take out large things while infiltrating, you are looking at dying fast if you want something in CC

Oh I know that Tau suck the big one at close combat. I got demolished in a game recently because I had nothing to take on combat for me. I would like something cheap point wise that I wouldn't mind loosing but would help keep the enemy away from my more important units for a few turns

Kroot arent even good at tarpitting things anymore. They are literally nothing except
1) Infiltrating sniper masses that can turn 1 pop MCs with enough luck, light vehicles (very light), or pop characters with precision shots.
2) Anti-charge Bubblewrap. What this is is Kroot themselves do not have supporting fire, but they trigger it on models that do. A 20man blob of kroot spread thin infront of your gunline can make it considerably harder to charge without wasting a turn or two of dakka to remove said kroot...and an Ethereal to help prevent the leadership issue for when they do get blasted out of the game.

Vespid have no use. Not even in a fun game. The range on their guns means they need to be very close, they have crazy initiative but crap stats anyway (and no AP weapons available for CC so who cares), and theyre rather pricy for what they do. All they are good for is taking out MEQ, and as stated before a simple Ionhead does the job way better and safer. 141pts is the minimum Ionhead cost (D-pods and Nightvision enabled, nothing else) and it can near-table length wipe out marine balls with the marker support to ignore cover (if needed). A valid vespid team would cost more than that, and not do as much since after 1 turn of shooting they'd get countercharged by something and wiped out.

Interesting stuff haha. I really thought kroot might be a good idea to add to my army.
I do kind of like the idea of a big 16 or 20 man unit spread out to absorb some charges but maybe just three 8 man fire warrior teams is better option especially with lots of marker light support?

You want some close combat? Ally with a CC army like Orks. Tau just don't do close combat. As far as Vespid go, there's a reason no one plays them, they are to Tau what the Parasite of Mortrex, Lictors, Pyrovores, Warriors, Genestealers, Ripper Swarms, Shrikes, Raveners, Sky-slasher Swarms, Spore Mine Clusters, Old One Eye and the Tyrannofex is to Tyranids.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
You want some close combat? Ally with a CC army like Orks. Tau just don't do close combat. As far as Vespid go, there's a reason no one plays them, they are to Tau what the Parasite of Mortrex, Lictors, Pyrovores, Warriors, Genestealers, Ripper Swarms, Shrikes, Raveners, Sky-slasher Swarms, Spore Mine Clusters, Old One Eye and the Tyrannofex is to Tyranids.

You can model big burly kroot and count them as Orks and say they just ate some Orks the other day.

 Kain wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
You want some close combat? Ally with a CC army like Orks. Tau just don't do close combat. As far as Vespid go, there's a reason no one plays them, they are to Tau what the Parasite of Mortrex, Lictors, Pyrovores, Warriors, Genestealers, Ripper Swarms, Shrikes, Raveners, Sky-slasher Swarms, Spore Mine Clusters, Old One Eye and the Tyrannofex is to Tyranids.

You can model big burly kroot and count them as Orks and say they just ate some Orks the other day.

That is an awesomely fluffy idea. Instead of running "normal" Orks as allies, just get a decent kroot force and "count-as" Orks. You won't be committing a fluff massacre and you have your CC specialists right there.

Why are ork allies "fluff massacure"? tau use the more reasonable ones as mercs, just like the IoM does.

In any case, vespid related-they are one of the swingiest units in the game, and while they wont work for the vast majorety of people, they people who CAN use them, will be getting alot of millage from them.
They got a decent gun, decent speed, and the ability to hold a bit in combat, and exit it. between MTC and jump infantry they are extremely mobile and what they do, more then actually killing MEQ, is providing a big threat bubble.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Why are ork allies "fluff massacure"? tau use the more reasonable ones as mercs, just like the IoM does.
.

Well, after reading the latest codex, the Tau pretty much said "Alright, screw this, we can't convert Orks to the greater good. We are shooting any Orks we see"

Tau dont like orks, fluffwise anyway. I was surprised to see they were allies of convenience for some reason.

Though if they were battle brothers there'd be some funny stuff going on...viable or not is another question. Ghazzy + Shadowsun + MANz group outflanking while the Tau main force goes to town from afar.

The whole allies thing seems weird to me entirely. It feels like they rewrote a crapton of the lore so that they didnt single out certain races like the Nidz are (which there is no way in hell the Nidz could be twisted to allow even desperate allies fluff-wise). I mean, werent Orks originally bioengineered to deal with the Necrons at one point in the fluff, and now theyre allies of convenience DAFUQ?! lol

There are crap tons of Ork mercenaries and the Tau have a reputation as excellent employers.

"Oy! Dem bloo ladz gave us deez 'ere gunz! All we hadz ta do wuz krump sum humies, an dey handed dem all over to us. Didn't think twice 'bout it neever...till we started krumpin' bloo ladz too....hur hur hur"

 greg0985 wrote:
"Oy! Dem bloo ladz gave us deez 'ere gunz! All we hadz ta do wuz krump sum humies, an dey handed dem all over to us. Didn't think twice 'bout it neever...till we started krumpin' bloo ladz too....hur hur hur"

I fething love this, have an exalt!

 Kain wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
You want some close combat? Ally with a CC army like Orks. Tau just don't do close combat. As far as Vespid go, there's a reason no one plays them, they are to Tau what the Parasite of Mortrex, Lictors, Pyrovores, Warriors, Genestealers, Ripper Swarms, Shrikes, Raveners, Sky-slasher Swarms, Spore Mine Clusters, Old One Eye and the Tyrannofex is to Tyranids.

You can model big burly kroot and count them as Orks and say they just ate some Orks the other day.

Actually quite a good idea, considering thats what kroot do

Am I the only one seriusly concerned that kroot might be behaving a bit too much like nids?
Eat your enemies and filter their useful genetic traits?

Well we may have gotten a bit off topic eh? :p

But I will just lookibg through my codex and saw the sun shark and was thinking hey that might be good.

Any of you use them? Should I get one of those or a hammerhead for destroying MEQ squads? So then I avoid close combat and with the sun shark my enemy will have a tough time dealing with a flyer

Sniper kroot are great in a list that only has heavy anti tank and needs anti elite and MC and some horde control, when they take sniper rounds.

Vespid simply serve as a fast anti MEQ role, that doubles at being able to kill MC's, but needs markerlights to do anything normally.

Take what your list needs more of. Both work, both can be taken in the place of other units.

chiefbigredman wrote:
But I will just lookibg through my codex and saw the sun shark and was thinking hey that might be good.

Any of you use them? Should I get one of those or a hammerhead for destroying MEQ squads? So then I avoid close combat and with the sun shark my enemy will have a tough time dealing with a flyer

Hammerhead or a Barracuda if you really want a flyer. The bomber is just kind of silly to me, and the fighter has a better blast that's easier to hit with considering you don't have to to a bombing run but pick a target that's in the almost 360 degree firing range. That and a roll of a 1 on Gets hot prevents it from firing for one turn, not the rest of the game.

Honestly though the bomber/fighter just lacks the quality or quantity of firepower that's really required for Tau lists and is generally overlooked.
I saw one person play with one once, and he hasn't even brought it to the FLGS since because it just takes up space.