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Glenmorray wrote:
Man I love 6th, and the prices are no biggie. All other hobbies are simile expensive.

I love the new scenery, miniatures, and new codex releases. I think GW are doing a fan blooming-tastic-job.

Guess I'm a fan boi now...

Really, 6th was the final death blow for me, que start look in boxes for 3rd. While 5th got dull fast even with all the cool new toys (sadly they did nothing but change how you rolled your dice, instead of changing how you play the game). While 6th (and this is from a Ork player) is just to random.

Noir wrote:

Glenmorray wrote:
Man I love 6th, and the prices are no biggie. All other hobbies are simile expensive.

I love the new scenery, miniatures, and new codex releases. I think GW are doing a fan blooming-tastic-job.

Guess I'm a fan boi now...

Really, 6th was the final death blow for me, que start look in boxes for 3rd. While 5th got dull fast even with all the cool new toys (sadly they did nothing but change how you rolled your dice, instead of changing how you play the game). While 6th (and this is from a Ork player) is just to random.

Sixth was the edition where I finally decided not to bother getting the game at all - in spite of it being a Dark Angels game.

Barring something marvelous... I think that I am done with 40K, and I have not bought any GW material in over a year now..

The Auld Grump - I have spent over a $1,000 on miniatures from other companies though.... Damn you Kickstarter! Damn you!

Glenmorray wrote:
Man I love 6th, and the prices are no biggie. All other hobbies are simile expensive.

I love the new scenery, miniatures, and new codex releases. I think GW are doing a fan blooming-tastic-job.

Guess I'm a fan boi now...

Not all hobbies are similarly expensive.
Boardgames like 7 Wonders, Settlers of Catan, Race for the Galaxy will set you back less than the price of a medium sized model from GW.
Games like Malifaux, Infinity and Uncharted Seas cost substantially less to play than 40k.
A good set of fishing gear, Rod, Pole, Lures and License cost less than a 40k army.
In fact, now that a Codex costs 75$ plus the BRB, etc. The cost to play is now substantially more than many hobbies as well as sports. You could buy a nice surfboard, wax, leash. You could pick up a tent, backpack, sleeping pad and bag. You could ..... You get the point.

THis is a free market. If 40k is what you love then spend your money on it. If you get tired of it there are plenty of less expensive, really fun alternatives.

2x210 wrote:
I don't get this post at all.

You obvioulsy don't have a job since you only get money during Christmas and your Birthday, or if you do have a job you are struggling since once again you only get extra cash as gifts.....

40k is a hobby, therefore it shouldn't be an "expense" its something like shooting or fishing or even rebuilding old muscle cars, something you do when you have the time and the money.

The economy has been terrible for the past few years. Some of us are out of work, or find work only sporadically.

2x210 wrote:
I'm getting so annoyed with this Wahh GW is so expensive I can't afford it wahhh threads.... Its a hobby and comparably speaking its not even that expensive, for the price of say one nice rifle you can have about 4000pts of an army, the rulebook, and your codex... For the price of golfing memberships and clubs you could buy a whole company of Space Marines.

If you want cheap, buy some legos, download the Brickwars rules and have at it

Nobody is talking about "cheap." We are talking about "value" and the fact that GW has priced many loyal customers out of the hobby.

Legos are too toy-like for my taste. I liked Mobile Frame Zero, but only if they made them as model kits.

--Chris
www.chrisvalera.com


Automatically Appended Next Post:

775B53 wrote:
here we are for dakka's weekly "who else hates GW?" thread. They are mostly all the same, thinly-veiled with different titles.

I"m here to help break the echo-chamber.

Prices have gone up...so buy less. $50 for a kit is not a problem if you aren't the type of player who simply buys the newest power army (which you probably won't even paint anyway). And if you can't spare $50 a month you are definitely in the wrong hobby, because that is pretty affordable with even a part-time job. Spend more time on your kits and get your money's worth instead of just slapping them together like toys.

Also, I am tired of subjective statements being taken for granted and going unchallenged. "Gundam kits are superior quality to GW." In what way?

Are you serious right now? The tolerances on a gundam kit are light years ahead of what GW puts out, and always have been. Even a $15 gundam is better than anything GW puts out. The Japanese model kit industry, in general, is better. GW goes on and on in White Dwarf about their new-fangles sliding core technology that makes hollow barrels on a Baneblade, Japan had that figuredd out 10 years ago. It's not even close.

You don't get extra pieces, but the gundams are designed to be the one character, and nothing else. Although sometimes you get extra hands, polycaps and accessories.

If the Gundam's aren't so great, why does the new Tau Riptide not have polycaps and full posability? You have to physically cut the model pegs to get it to pose.

775B53 wrote:

And how much does your $100 investment in the gundam get you? You have a model you can put on your shelf to look nice. The wraithknight and riptides you deride in comparison can function as display pieces, but are ALSO usable in as many games as you can fit into your schedule. You can take them to any store that runs GW games and be able to use them. GW offers ubiquity for the gamer; Gundam is purely for the modeler. GW, satisfying both the modeler and the gamer, gets the advantage from me.

You can easily use a Gundam in any mecha game, or D20-Future. You can even play it as a titan in 40K, if you don't mind the universe-bending.

And that's where your argument falls apart; Bandai makes a 15-inch tall fully posable plastic model kit, and nothing GW puts out comes close. The Riptide and Wraithnight are about the same cost for one-third or one-half as much plastic. You may get extra bits, but the gundam comes in many more pieces, with polycaps, in colored plastic, and is fully posable.

Don't even try it, the GW stuff is ridiculously overpriced.

775B53 wrote:

And why is this always framed against GW alone? Where is the comparison between Gundam kits and PP's single pose, flat resin bricks they call colossi? I'll tell you why, it's because the people who post these kinds of things are purely pushing an anti-GW agenda/rant, not interested in real discussion.

But even those Collosi you hate so much come in cheaper than GW's titans. I do with they were in plastic and had more poses, but I say that about a lot of PP's stuff. Mainline stuff like Trenchers and the Menoth rocket guys should be available in plastic. The Menoth priest and chor should be in plastic because it's nigh-mandatory. PP has made stride, releasing their stuff ion resin-plastic, but it hasn't gone far enough.

But GW is the market leader, and for better or ill, they're what everyone compares themselves to.

--Chris
www.chrisvalera.com


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ThouShallNotHeal wrote:
It's a shame, for the most part they are excellent models.

They're getting better, but there are still issues. There are woeful gaps on the Land Raider tracks, you can even see them in the finished model, and Finecast is just awful

LOL at that one kid that tried to say they were better than Gundams, or anything Japan puts out.

--Chris
www.chrisvalera.com

After I got the bulk of my 40k armies(Tyranids and Dark Eldar) my 40k purchases have slowed down quite a bit. I buy a box every couple of months or so, but I have most of the models I want in my armies. I do find the prices high, but since my stuff is already established it doesn't bother me as much.

I have money set aside for when they DO get updated, so I'm not going to balk at paying $50 for a codex and maybe a hundred on other models depending in what comes out. For the most part I feel like I get my money's worth out of my models(although I do wish I got to play more).

I've never really restricted myself to one game, or one genre. I have several games from several different companies, and I've personally never felt any of them to be just a straight up better value. They are all different games, so there's a disconnect for me when I compare across systems, such as 40k to Infinity, or miniatures to RPGs or box games.

I don't feel "pro-GW" or like I'm a "hater". I enjoy playing games, of which Warhammer is one. I enjoy it for different reasons than other games.

 Sinful Hero wrote:
After I got the bulk of my 40k armies(Tyranids and Dark Eldar) my 40k purchases have slowed down quite a bit. I buy a box every couple of months or so, but I have most of the models I want in my armies. I do find the prices high, but since my stuff is already established it doesn't bother me as much.

I have money set aside for when they DO get updated, so I'm not going to balk at paying $50 for a codex and maybe a hundred on other models depending in what comes out. For the most part I feel like I get my money's worth out of my models(although I do wish I got to play more).

I've never really restricted myself to one game, or one genre. I have several games from several different companies, and I've personally never felt any of them to be just a straight up better value. They are all different games, so there's a disconnect for me when I compare across systems, such as 40k to Infinity, or miniatures to RPGs or box games.

I don't feel "pro-GW" or like I'm a "hater". I enjoy playing games, of which Warhammer is one. I enjoy it for different reasons than other games.

It is good that you stay in a neutral stance. And safer that way.

Safe from what? Bears? The scathing disapproval of some kid on a 40k forum?

In response to the OPs original question: does GW offer good value? - I'd have to say overall, yes.

The trick is to look at the value of an entire army rather than individual kits. I can relate to the OP in that I just purchased a 1/60 perfect grade gundam for $200. This gundam kit blows away anything GW has to offer (2 riptides as an example). Then again that comparison isn't really fair as GW does not market their models to be bought individually and put on display.

Sure we can evaluate the models from a technical standpoint, but ultimately it is implied that these models are to be used to play the game.

My opinion is a bit unique though as my armies each run about $1000 for 1500 pts, but they are mostly FW. Part of the value comes from knowing that there are very few people out there that have an army comprised of the same models as me.

It did hurt a little to start a farsight enclave using all XV89s and XV81s - $45 per suit (exchange rate + duty sigh). It's worth it to me though because they look great, fun to build, and people stop to take pictures

In Canada, the regular prices have hit the point where Forgeworld seems a lot more attractive in comparison. I think Forgeworld's continued success has shown GW just what people will pay for their miniatures.

IMO, getting priced out of "the hobby" is only possible if you subscribe to the "current edition/tournament circuit" element, which isn't far from all the hobby has to offer.

Oddly enough, pricing was never an issue for me because I never in 20 years of playing had the burning need to a) buy a whole army in one go b) buy tons of models to keep an army competitive with a new edition (and multiples, too, because hey, it's considered the peak of listbuilding skill to identify a powerful unit and pick several of those).
If you don't buy in to the NCFF (New Codex Feeding Frenzy) of "OMG I need to buy three Helldrakes minimum, NOW!" you can quite casually expand an army over the course of two to three years with one purchase every couple of months. And that's quite manageable even on a budget - it was for me at least.

Right now I'm in the comfortable position that I'm able to use my miniatures in six (quite different) editions of 40k and tons of homebrew/skirmish systems without much effort, whatever strikes my fancy. And I would consider all of these part of the "GW hobby". I played maybe one game of 40k fifth edition, because I didn't like it much and instead, I had quite a couple of games of 40k 2nd edition (and some of the weirder variants of 40k3 suggested in various older WD issues), which was pretty fun.

6th is an edition I like so far, mainly because they finally implemented Allies, allowing me to pick up a couple of nice models here and there without having to plan an actual army. I see the system's issues in a competitive environment, but, well, I've played my last tournament game in the last millennium and have never looked back... What you need for that are like-minded players. But that's not something I'd look for GW to help me with anyway.

That article was a good read and I can agree with a lot of the opinions already posted.

I started Wargaming in 1988 as I thought it was a kool thing. I loved the models and the stories in WD. I was 7 years old.

I left the hobby here in there over the years due to some very poor life choices, but the hobby was always there when I got my act together. After falling off the straight and narrow a couple of times, I came back to the hobby.

I left the hobby again in 2006 after meeting who would be my wife, raised a family... But after my wife got rid of me for a shiny upgraded model, I didn't go back to living a life of hedonism, I landed back in the hobby and thankfully have a lovely Girlfriend who is also getting into the hobby with a Nurgle Daemon army.

The only difference between each time I gave up and came back has been the price of the armies. They slowly crept up in price over the years, until now.

The prices are now incredibly high and to get a decent sized army is a real investment.

So how do we combat this?

Other than discount stores, there isn't a way... You either go along with the hikes or quit the hobby.

That isn't an option for me as I'm in a happy place with my life and some of that reason is due to the hobby. I'd rather spend my spare money on this hobby than go back to the stuff iwas doing before.

But I digress... That doesn't help anyone else.

So what have GW done to eleviate some of these hikes?

I noticed something in this months WD. Many of the writers and designers collect their armies in parts. They get a small core (500 points) and then add a squad or vehicle every month. One said writer had been collecting his Marine army for 15 years and he did this by adding new stuff every month.

Before, the hobby was marketed so people could buy entire armies in one go. Now, for some, that isn't an option. Sure, there are one click deals, which save no money, but now there is more emphasis on army collecting at a much slower rate.

If you're a tourney gamer who must get the WAAC army (all the power to you btw) then go for it, buy a whole army in one go.

If you are just an occasional gamer, who wants to get some games in, but doesn't have the financial resources to buy an army in one go, you're kind of scuppered and you now fall into the next category...

The hobbyist. You like the lore, the models and the painting, but you can't afford an entire army in one go or even a decent starting point, so your army then becomes a long term labour of love. You'll paint it or convert it up to all shiny and ready for the next edition or just to look good on a shelf.

Yes, we are all being priced out of the hobby, but how this is being sold to us is similar to other modelling hobbies, like building a train set or large kit making. I had a train set, it took five years to finish it. I built a very large Starship Enterprise, that took 2 months to build and paint it all nice.

I see this hobby going the same way.

The hardcore gamers will carry on buying as nothing happened, but the hobbyists will slow down on their purchases and make their armies last a lifetime.

Just my two pence...

Party on.

Puscifer wrote:

The prices are now incredibly high and to get a decent sized army is a real investment.

So how do we combat this?

Other than discount stores, there isn't a way... You either go along with the hikes or quit the hobby.

(snip)

Just to be sure....by "the hobby", you mean WHF / 40K, rather than wargaming as a whole, right? Because GW is actually quite anomalous in how much money you need to spend for an "evening's gaming" size army.

Personally I have been GW free for over a year now (my price point/value hit when the 6th ed price hike went into effect).I Sold all my 40k stuff (3000pts Eldar and 2800pts GK) and have 2 WM/H armies (both with collasals) and was able to buy most of the foam to put them in with the proceeds.

Now I am not all boo lets burn GW down, and so on, But I will say that I enjoy my hobby time much more.

On the flip side, some people really like GW and their games, there is nothing wrong with that view point. The hobby is big enough for everyone to have fun. I don't really get the GW is the devil stance, they are just a company that makes a game, and all the accessories to go with it. They shouldn't inspire hate. Nor should someone that is venting that they had enough.

I play 2nd edition 40k so I don't have to fork out loads on new miniatures for my army.

My main problem with Gundams is that they all look like Gundams. Now, if someone could point me toward a decently-sized model of the MAC II Monster, that would be a winner.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
My main problem with Gundams is that they all look like Gundams. Now, if someone could point me toward a decently-sized model of the MAC II Monster, that would be a winner.

All Gundams are supposed to look like Gundams, the same way that all Space Marines are supposed to look like Space Marines. If you want variety you would have to look at the other Mobile Suits in the various series.

Robotech Tactics has a Monster as one of the releases

Nope not out. I am however, MUCH more careful with my purchases. I have a set hobby budget that i spend per month - this is more so i don't accumulate gak i'll never use rather than any true fiscal conservatism on my end.

That said, with the budget i've placed for myself, i might get one big GW kit a month, or a couple smaller ones.

The prices (and i should note, i got back into GW games ... a few years ago? starting with fantasy, and have edged back into 40k in the last few months - coming from a predominantly WM/H, and other skirmish sized game focus) are such that i plan purchases carefully, and i really weigh what i get. I don't want to drop 85 bucks on a model and go "Oh, this thing sucks" and never take it out of the bag again.

A 29 dollar warjack ? Sure i'll do that, and not feel bad. A 10 dollar blister ? Sure.

You start getting up around 50 -100 bucks for one model, and yeah, that's no longer "gamble" territory. That's "damn sure informed purchase" territory.


I think generally GW's stuff is a good value, good conversion opportunities which feeds the hobby side, they are a joy to paint for me. That said, yes, the prices have gotten to the point where i'm cautious. I keep myself, now, to 2 armies in fantasy, and 2 armies in 40k, no more, because i'd never be able to sustain it otherwise. Whereas with WM/H - i had 4 of 5 WM armies, and in Hordes, I played 2 of 5. In Malifaux, i played masters across every faction.

 Cyporiean wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
My main problem with Gundams is that they all look like Gundams. Now, if someone could point me toward a decently-sized model of the MAC II Monster, that would be a winner.

All Gundams are supposed to look like Gundams, the same way that all Space Marines are supposed to look like Space Marines. If you want variety you would have to look at the other Mobile Suits in the various series.

Robotech Tactics has a Monster as one of the releases

My razor-sharp wit misses again. I was just trying to say that Gundams may be the best damn kits on the planet with a price to make angels weep for joy, but if I don't like how any of them look then it's a moot point.

I'm all over Robotech Tactics. Thanks for the tip though. I was hoping for a Monster that was more ...titanic... in size.

There used to be scale kits of the monster in larger sizes, but they're out of production.

I find a pretty big variety in the aesthetics of the gundam kits. I love the Zaku, for example.

Puscifer wrote:
That article was a good read and I can agree with a lot of the opinions already posted.

I started Wargaming in 1988 as I thought it was a kool thing. I loved the models and the stories in WD. I was 7 years old.

I left the hobby here in there over the years due to some very poor life choices, but the hobby was always there when I got my act together. After falling off the straight and narrow a couple of times, I came back to the hobby.

I left the hobby again in 2006 after meeting who would be my wife, raised a family... But after my wife got rid of me for a shiny upgraded model, I didn't go back to living a life of hedonism, I landed back in the hobby and thankfully have a lovely Girlfriend who is also getting into the hobby with a Nurgle Daemon army.

The only difference between each time I gave up and came back has been the price of the armies. They slowly crept up in price over the years, until now.

The prices are now incredibly high and to get a decent sized army is a real investment.

So how do we combat this?

Other than discount stores, there isn't a way... You either go along with the hikes or quit the hobby.

That isn't an option for me as I'm in a happy place with my life and some of that reason is due to the hobby. I'd rather spend my spare money on this hobby than go back to the stuff iwas doing before.

But I digress... That doesn't help anyone else.

So what have GW done to eleviate some of these hikes?

I noticed something in this months WD. Many of the writers and designers collect their armies in parts. They get a small core (500 points) and then add a squad or vehicle every month. One said writer had been collecting his Marine army for 15 years and he did this by adding new stuff every month.

Before, the hobby was marketed so people could buy entire armies in one go. Now, for some, that isn't an option. Sure, there are one click deals, which save no money, but now there is more emphasis on army collecting at a much slower rate.

If you're a tourney gamer who must get the WAAC army (all the power to you btw) then go for it, buy a whole army in one go.

If you are just an occasional gamer, who wants to get some games in, but doesn't have the financial resources to buy an army in one go, you're kind of scuppered and you now fall into the next category...

The hobbyist. You like the lore, the models and the painting, but you can't afford an entire army in one go or even a decent starting point, so your army then becomes a long term labour of love. You'll paint it or convert it up to all shiny and ready for the next edition or just to look good on a shelf.

Yes, we are all being priced out of the hobby, but how this is being sold to us is similar to other modelling hobbies, like building a train set or large kit making. I had a train set, it took five years to finish it. I built a very large Starship Enterprise, that took 2 months to build and paint it all nice.

I see this hobby going the same way.

The hardcore gamers will carry on buying as nothing happened, but the hobbyists will slow down on their purchases and make their armies last a lifetime.

Just my two pence...

Party on.

My ex did a similar situation. Heh she served me while I was struck down and barely able to move. I have no kids so in one sense I did not had to go through the family breakup. My Sweetie of 4 years and my pet cat are my beneficiaries. I have provisions to make sure that those that I love and cherish will be provided. My cat, who was there giving me unconditional love and affection when I was so alone will never be given away or going to the pound when I am gone as well as my Sweetie. I've always stated that I'm well off. Not one of the 1%'rs, but I live comfortably.

I am glad you found someone special as I did.

But what good is it when you can afford the game and you see less and less people continuing playing and/or newcomers not getting into the game because of the cost getting into the game? Everything you have stated rings true to me. And in a way that is depressing, because the hobby as a whole is more than just plastic man dolls, it comes down to being creative in all aspects of the game in question.

It is no fun painting/gaming by yourself because the majority of the people in your region has moved on because of price.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

I'm all over Robotech Tactics. Thanks for the tip though. I was hoping for a Monster that was more ...titanic... in size.

http://www.hlj.com/product/BAN966791/Sci

Only 40% of the price of the Robotech Tactics version but is 40% larger as well. More pics in Kid Kyoto's gallery.

 warboss wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

I'm all over Robotech Tactics. Thanks for the tip though. I was hoping for a Monster that was more ...titanic... in size.

http://www.hlj.com/product/BAN966791/Sci

Only 40% of the price of the Robotech Tactics version but is 40% larger as well. More pics in Kid Kyoto's gallery.

Ah, you beat me to it...

 sennacherib wrote:

Not all hobbies are similarly expensive.
Boardgames like 7 Wonders, Settlers of Catan, Race for the Galaxy will set you back less than the price of a medium sized model from GW.

I have to echo this, I bought Carcassonne for less than the cost of a GW tank and a group of us have played it about a dozen times in the last month, so it's seeing a lot more table time than my 40K army.

 Elemental wrote:

Just to be sure....by "the hobby", you mean WHF / 40K, rather than wargaming as a whole, right? Because GW is actually quite anomalous in how much money you need to spend for an "evening's gaming" size army.

And this. I had my first campaign game of FoW last night, total RRP cost of my army was £88; that includes the starter set (with full rules, card stock scenery, an additional army, 7 tanks not included in my army) and a company box with 109 infantry in it (only half used at this stage). So the real cost is closer to half of that. That got me a game on a similar tactical level to a 1000pt 40K game.

 Elemental wrote:

Puscifer wrote:

The prices are now incredibly high and to get a decent sized army is a real investment.

So how do we combat this?

Other than discount stores, there isn't a way... You either go along with the hikes or quit the hobby.

(snip)

Just to be sure....by "the hobby", you mean WHF / 40K, rather than wargaming as a whole, right? Because GW is actually quite anomalous in how much money you need to spend for an "evening's gaming" size army.

Only the GW hobby as it stands.

PP have made it very affordable for someone starting up as you only need a starter box for each player and can add a unit or beast/jack here an there and still be able to play a fair game.

@Adam Longwalker...

I think we were in the exact same boat there, dude.

My ex wife, who I am still waiting for the divorce to come through for, mentally abused me for three years. While I had no where to turn to, the hobby kept me sane even though I wasn't collecting, I was still reading.

It's rubbish when you think about it. While I'm certainly not well off (all of my money has been plowed into my kids and business), I'm definitely falling into the hobbiest who is making his army a labour of love and spreading it out over several months/years.

Just looking at the smallest army of 40k... 500 points... That can go into £100 easy.

By the time you've got an entire army together, you're looking at £750-£1000.

I bought an entire Marine battle company in 1998 for little over £100, back when the Tactical Squad went plastic and cost £10 each.

They replaced the metal one which was £25. Now... The plastic is £25... So really, little has changed other than the fact, like the article states... "GW was the Wal Mart of TT Wargames".

Personally, I'm looking forward to my new interest in the hobby. My GF is getting into it, I've moved to a new meta... It's looking good right now.

The option I took to keep the hobby alive was to get involved with the 40k RPGs (mainly Dark Heresy).

I love the Universe of Warhammer, but whilst I can just about cope with the prices, I wince when doing so. The experience should instead be enjoyable. The RPGs allow me to explore the background, while keeping my spendings affordable.

Hence, my purchases are restricted because of the RPG engine. I don't need to drop huge money on troops, or Helldrakes or whatever. Instead, I can use individual GW minis, and 3rd party manufacturers to bring my games to life. Models can also easily be recycled into different characters.

Its a useful system that's kept me in the loop, when I was very close to leaving altogether.

 CadianXV wrote:
The option I took to keep the hobby alive was to get involved with the 40k RPGs (mainly Dark Heresy).

I love the Universe of Warhammer, but whilst I can just about cope with the prices, I wince when doing so. The experience should instead be enjoyable. The RPGs allow me to explore the background, while keeping my spendings affordable.

Hence, my purchases are restricted because of the RPG engine. I don't need to drop huge money on troops, or Helldrakes or whatever. Instead, I can use individual GW minis, and 3rd party manufacturers to bring my games to life. Models can also easily be recycled into different characters.

Its a useful system that's kept me in the loop, when I was very close to leaving altogether.

If it is the setting that holds your interest then this is a very reasonable view to take.

Playing 'dead' games such as Mordheim or Necromunda can also hold that feel.

Mordheim at least is seeing fan support in the form of Coreheim - I do not lnow if similar support is available for Necromunda. (Played my first game of Necromunda in years a few days ago - dang, I was rusty.)

There is also fan made Death Squads for small scale 40K - I have not played since an early, early beta of the rules, but it was fun. (I just preferred Necromunda.)

So, yeah - for folks that want the setting, there are options.

The Auld Grump

 gossipmeng wrote:
Then again that comparison isn't really fair as GW does not market their models to be bought individually and put on display. Sure we can evaluate the models from a technical standpoint, but ultimately it is implied that these models are to be used to play the game.

The difficulty is that they do not seem to consider how "robust" the model would need to be for tabletop play or the considerations for transport.

Many normal models do not fit in the 2"X1"X1" slot in the carry case foam with banners and spindly bits that may break off if clearance is not cut out.
Hands with chain swords tend to be the typical casualty.

The use of finecast materials ensures you do not leave your case in a car even on a mildly warm day.
The much lighter material does allow some survivability of a drop but the very fine details tends to snap off (do not drop dark elder finecast!).

I have bought models of Gundams that are fully posable, bigger, less expensive, more detailed and far more durable: it was meant to be played with! Never mind snap in place alternate weapons and armor, add-ons, molded in colour and alternate materials.

It is fair to compare because ultimately GW knows the majority of their models are used for play: the space hulk terminators are an example of good models and very tough.

 Talizvar wrote:

 gossipmeng wrote:
Then again that comparison isn't really fair as GW does not market their models to be bought individually and put on display. Sure we can evaluate the models from a technical standpoint, but ultimately it is implied that these models are to be used to play the game.

The difficulty is that they do not seem to consider how "robust" the model would need to be for tabletop play or the considerations for transport.

Many normal models do not fit in the 2"X1"X1" slot in the carry case foam with banners and spindly bits that may break off if clearance is not cut out.
Hands with chain swords tend to be the typical casualty.

The use of finecast materials ensures you do not leave your case in a car even on a mildly warm day.
The much lighter material does allow some survivability of a drop but the very fine details tends to snap off (do not drop dark elder finecast!).

I have bought models of Gundams that are fully posable, bigger, less expensive, more detailed and far more durable: it was meant to be played with! Never mind snap in place alternate weapons and armor, add-ons, molded in colour and alternate materials.

It is fair to compare because ultimately GW knows the majority of their models are used for play: the space hulk terminators are an example of good models and very tough.

I guess part of what I meant is that there is a game that can be played with these line of models, period. If you buy the gundam: you build it, pose it, display it - done (the same goes for most scale models - they are stand alone projects).

GW's models you build, paint, display, etc., "and" use to play the game systems associated with them. Whether it is justifiable or not I will not comment, but GW appears to be placing monetary value on the assumption that you will get your money's worth out of the models over the "many many" games you will play with their miniatures.

It is this rationalization that most of us use to justify paying the high GW prices. That tactical marine cost me $5, but if I'm going to get at least 20 games out of him and his buddies then it becomes easier to swallow. It is also important to factor that GW models retain a good amount of their value (at least 50%+). It is nice to know that I can sell that same marine for $2.50 down the road if I get bored of him - many miniatures companies are to small/unknown for their models to retain that kind of value.

 warboss wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

I'm all over Robotech Tactics. Thanks for the tip though. I was hoping for a Monster that was more ...titanic... in size.

http://www.hlj.com/product/BAN966791/Sci

Only 40% of the price of the Robotech Tactics version but is 40% larger as well. More pics in Kid Kyoto's gallery.

Yay! Now to wait 4 to 6 weeks for delivery...

As I said, out of production.

Might find one on eBay or something-- good luck though.