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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/27 11:20:14
Subject: Vengeance Weapon Battery Loadout
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Missionary On A Mission
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I'm not sure if this belongs in this forum but is the better loadout for the weapon battery?
I bought the Vengeance Weapon Battery today for our monthly 40K tournament next weekend. now it has been a few months since i last played in a tournament and from memory most weapon brought the usual units, troops, walkers, light transport and there was the couple of Landraiders. my thoughts were to run the two with the Gattling guns to kill the troops off early and supply my troops and dev squad with heavy weapons to take out the high armour value units. i would also be running sterngaurd units with combi's and a Motf at the near with a conversion beamer as well.
Thoughts?
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: 4500pts
Lothlorien: 3500pts
Rohan: 1500pts
Serpent: 2000pts
Modor: 1500pts |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/27 11:51:28
Subject: Vengeance Weapon Battery Loadout
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Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight
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They aren't going to kill many Troops; at BS2 against Marines that's 6.6 hits, 4.4 wounds, and 1.5 dead Marines only.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/07/27 11:52:17
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/27 16:32:17
Subject: Vengeance Weapon Battery Loadout
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Killer Klaivex
Oceanside, CA
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Godless-Mimicry wrote:They aren't going to kill many Troops; at BS2 against Marines that's 6.6 hits, 4.4 wounds, and 1.5 dead Marines only.
@ 75 points, that's not bad.
150 points dropping 3 marines a turn.
If you're opponent ignores them, you'll come out decently ahead in the points exchange (spent vs kills).
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/27 16:41:31
Subject: Vengeance Weapon Battery Loadout
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Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight
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HawaiiMatt wrote: Godless-Mimicry wrote:They aren't going to kill many Troops; at BS2 against Marines that's 6.6 hits, 4.4 wounds, and 1.5 dead Marines only.
@ 75 points, that's not bad.
150 points dropping 3 marines a turn.
If you're opponent ignores them, you'll come out decently ahead in the points exchange (spent vs kills).
150pts is a lot to pay to kill 3 Marines a turn. 10 Eldar Guardians kill 3 Marines a turn for 90pts for instance.
The Vengeance Battery also has to fire last in the turn and at the closest enemy unit. Really not worth it.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/27 16:43:29
Subject: Vengeance Weapon Battery Loadout
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Rough Rider with Boomstick
Wiltshire
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Not to mention the brokenness of fortification rules :/
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Note to the reader: my username is not arrogance. No, my name is taken from the most excellent of commanders: Lord Castellan Creed, of the Imperial Guar- I mean Astra Militarum - who has a special rule known only as "Tactical Genius"... Although nowhere near as awesome as before, it now allows some cool stuff for the Guar- Astra Militarum - player. FEAR ME AND MY TWO WARLORD TRAITS. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/27 17:00:31
Subject: Vengeance Weapon Battery Loadout
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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are the guns un-mannable then?
and don't be underestimating BS2, i know as an ork player that math-hammer is unaplicable to it, you'll either miss with 1 out of 20 shots or hit with 1 out of 20 shots, i very rarely roll average. so the weapon could drop a great many space marines a turn, not to mention glancing rhinos to death. if it was against nids it'd be amazing! plus it's a lot less squishy than an infantry unit, gives objective-sitters something to hide behind, draws enemy fire due to its damage potential - 150 points is 50 more than a quad-gunned aegis, so a 50pt bonus to get 40 shots instead of 4, AV14 and something to hide behind which blocks LoS. not bad i say, if you play it right...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/27 18:00:43
Subject: Vengeance Weapon Battery Loadout
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Battleship Captain
Oregon
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I'd be much more interested in a pair of Battle Cannons. BS2 matters less and S8 is a valid threat to most anything.
Just gotta be careful of scatter drift.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/27 20:14:55
Subject: Vengeance Weapon Battery Loadout
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Executing Exarch
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I would recommend the battle cannon. Due to the rules you cannot choose the target but must fire at the closest target. The battle cannon will always be able to contribute in some way, shape, or form and has the range to do so from across the board.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/27 20:50:21
Subject: Vengeance Weapon Battery Loadout
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Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator
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I suggest battle cannon as well. For the price of a single leman russ you get 2 leman russ cannon shots, you cant choose target sure but there aren't that many units that are not scared from a s8 ap 3 large blast.
Even vs AV14 it can glance with ordnance so it is not totally useless.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/27 20:55:48
Subject: Vengeance Weapon Battery Loadout
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Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight
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It's worth noting the type of army you are taking it in however, as if you have valuable close combat units then the Battle Cannon is not a good idea as you will be close to the enemy and thus likely to hit your own guys with the uncontrolled fire.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/27 21:17:30
Subject: Vengeance Weapon Battery Loadout
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Fixture of Dakka
Temple Prime
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Pray that the enemy's vengeance battery isn't the closest thing to your own.
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Midnightdeathblade wrote:Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/27 22:23:55
Subject: Vengeance Weapon Battery Loadout
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Battleship Captain
Oregon
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Kain wrote:Pray that the enemy's vengeance battery isn't the closest thing to your own. 
That works both ways.
Bigger threat is parking AV12 next to a Punisher. Even a Rhino would survive for three turns on average.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/27 23:48:03
Subject: Vengeance Weapon Battery Loadout
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Missionary On A Mission
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But isn't parking on two cannons more risky with hitting your own troops when/if the enemy gets within close combat? with scatter drift i could be killing myself that was why i was thinking the two gattling guns so i could open up without discrimination.
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: 4500pts
Lothlorien: 3500pts
Rohan: 1500pts
Serpent: 2000pts
Modor: 1500pts |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/28 00:26:23
Subject: Vengeance Weapon Battery Loadout
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Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator
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captain bloody fists wrote:But isn't parking on two cannons more risky with hitting your own troops when/if the enemy gets within close combat? with scatter drift i could be killing myself that was why i was thinking the two gattling guns so i could open up without discrimination.
If you have battle cannons on vengeance batteries putting them away from your army makes sense so if the enemy moves to take them out, the cannons target attackers or if they move on your army while ignoring the cannons they will blasted even more times then normal. You have half a table worth of space provides plenty.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/28 01:08:46
Subject: Vengeance Weapon Battery Loadout
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Battleship Captain
Oregon
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Good point. Triple range of the Punisher is a bonus.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/28 02:23:01
Subject: Vengeance Weapon Battery Loadout
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Missionary On A Mission
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pizzaguardian wrote:[If you have battle cannons on vengeance batteries putting them away from your army makes sense so if the enemy moves to take them out, the cannons target attackers or if they move on your army while ignoring the cannons they will blasted even more times then normal. You have half a table worth of space provides plenty.
so basically have every thing at the every edge of my end of the table then let them come to me?
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: 4500pts
Lothlorien: 3500pts
Rohan: 1500pts
Serpent: 2000pts
Modor: 1500pts |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/28 02:25:10
Subject: Re:Vengeance Weapon Battery Loadout
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Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight
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I agree with the battle cannons, BS2 hurts you less then and makes them a more viable threat that will distract attention from your other stuff at a minimum. And as was said before, you don't want to have someone park AV12 right next to it and laugh as your gun is rendered useless.
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Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/28 02:28:36
Subject: Vengeance Weapon Battery Loadout
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Missionary On A Mission
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alright i suppose you guys have convinced me: Battle cannons it is.
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: 4500pts
Lothlorien: 3500pts
Rohan: 1500pts
Serpent: 2000pts
Modor: 1500pts |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/28 02:41:25
Subject: Vengeance Weapon Battery Loadout
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Battleship Captain
Oregon
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Someone pointed out that the Punisher tip fits into the cannon's barrel so you could easily swap them around.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/28 02:54:42
Subject: Vengeance Weapon Battery Loadout
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Missionary On A Mission
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minigun762 wrote:
Someone pointed out that the Punisher tip fits into the cannon's barrel so you could easily swap them around.
one step ahead. this is what i did yesterday morning. cut off the cannon and glued in two tabs that slide into the hole in the gattling gun part.
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: 4500pts
Lothlorien: 3500pts
Rohan: 1500pts
Serpent: 2000pts
Modor: 1500pts |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/28 21:28:53
Subject: Re:Vengeance Weapon Battery Loadout
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Veteran Wolf Guard Squad Leader
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That's pretty awesome, especially keeping the options open. my vote is also with battle cannon though.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/28 23:17:44
Subject: Vengeance Weapon Battery Loadout
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Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator
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captain bloody fists wrote: pizzaguardian wrote:[If you have battle cannons on vengeance batteries putting them away from your army makes sense so if the enemy moves to take them out, the cannons target attackers or if they move on your army while ignoring the cannons they will blasted even more times then normal. You have half a table worth of space provides plenty.
so basically have every thing at the every edge of my end of the table then let them come to me?
Well if you are shooty army , yes  .
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/28 23:33:10
Subject: Vengeance Weapon Battery Loadout
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Ichor-Dripping Talos Monstrosity
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My problem is that it's unmannable.
I wanted to sit an ethereal in it and have it spread +1 shot to everything nearby.
Alas, it isn't and your enemy gets to choose what it shoots at.
The Battlecannon makes it a harder choice, but then it's 85pts...
I'll be interesting to see how it does though, I might be wrong!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/28 23:56:22
Subject: Vengeance Weapon Battery Loadout
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Regular Dakkanaut
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85 points for a AV14 battlecannon bunker that cannot be glanced to death is great. As to the BS of 2,so what,,,,orks deal with it all the time,,,I am planning on getting the set to add to my SOB army.
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"Ave, Imperator, morituri te salutant"
Black Templar-24,000+
Imperial Guard
Gaunts Ghost -2,000
Victoria's Own 33rd of Foot-2,000
Sisters of battle-2,500
Loyal Chaos Marines-2,000
Legio I Italica-8.000
Bretonnians 3,000plus |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/29 00:09:30
Subject: Re:Vengeance Weapon Battery Loadout
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Savage Khorne Berserker Biker
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I really dig the battle cannon, but the BS2 makes it hit 33% of the time. Essentially you would only be able to fire it twice during a normal 6 turn game, doesn't seem worth it to me. I'll stick with my Aegis line and Icarus LC manned by a Herald of Tzeentch with BS5 and casting prescience on the forgefiend by it's side for TL goodness.
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It is the 3rd Millennium. For more than a hundred months Games Workshop has sat immobile on the Golden Throne of Nottingham. It is the foremost of wargames by the will of the neckbeards, and master of a million tabletops by the might of their inexhaustible wallets. It is a rotting carcass writhing invisibly with business strategies from the early Industrial Revolution Age. It is the Carrion Lord of the wargaming scene for whom a thousand veteran players are sacrificed every day, so that it may never truly die. Yet even in its deathless state, GW continues its eternal vigilance. Mighty battleforce starter-sets cross the online-store-infested miasma of the internet, the only route between distant countries, their way lit by a draconian retail trade-agreement, the legal manifestation of the GW's will. Vast armies of lawyers give battle in GW's name on uncounted websites. Greatest amongst its soldiers are the Guardians of the IP, the Legal Team, bio-engineered super-donkey-caves. Their comrades in arms are legion: the writing team and countless untested rulebooks, the ever vigilant redshirts, and the writers of White Dwarf, to name only a few. But for all their multitudes, they are barely enough to hold off the ever-present threat from other games, their own incompetence, Based Chinaman - and worse. To support Games Workshop in such times is to spend untold billions. It is to support the cruelest and most dickish company imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of sales discounts and Warhammer Fantasy Battle, for so much has been dropped, never to be re-published again. Forget the promise of cheaper digital content and caring about the fanbase, for in the GW HQ there is only profit-seeking, Space Marines and Sigmarines. There is no fun amongst the hobby shops, only an eternity of raging and spending, and the laughter of former employees who left GW to join better companies. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/29 00:12:30
Subject: Vengeance Weapon Battery Loadout
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Ichor-Dripping Talos Monstrosity
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Gomericus wrote:85 points for a AV14 battlecannon bunker that cannot be glanced to death is great. As to the BS of 2,so what,,,,orks deal with it all the time,,,I am planning on getting the set to add to my SOB army.
My problem is, it's an immobile AV14 Battlecannon that you have no control over.
You have to fire at the nearest target, meaning the opponent can choose what gets shot.
The Punisher Gatling Cannon (which I love, and had actually pre-ordered the kit for), is worse as you put anything with an AV12+ facing closer than something else and it's nullified.
I'd rather go with the Bastion (half the price for a tall fire platform, with 4 heavy bolters) or Fortress of Redemption (50-120pts more, but gives you a TL Icarus Lascannon, Large Blast Missile Launcher and up to 4 Heavy Bolters).
Both of which you can aim, and give extra weapons for your Ret squads.
I mean, I might be wrong, a 75 to 170pt fortification that boasts 1-2 weapons that can be placed separately might be great, even if you have absolutely no control over it.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/29 01:35:02
Subject: Vengeance Weapon Battery Loadout
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Missionary On A Mission
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Ovion wrote:Gomericus wrote:85 points for a AV14 battlecannon bunker that cannot be glanced to death is great. As to the BS of 2,so what,,,,orks deal with it all the time,,,I am planning on getting the set to add to my SOB army.
My problem is, it's an immobile AV14 Battlecannon that you have no control over.
You have to fire at the nearest target, meaning the opponent can choose what gets shot.
The Punisher Gatling Cannon (which I love, and had actually pre-ordered the kit for), is worse as you put anything with an AV12+ facing closer than something else and it's nullified.
I'd rather go with the Bastion (half the price for a tall fire platform, with 4 heavy bolters) or Fortress of Redemption (50-120pts more, but gives you a TL Icarus Lascannon, Large Blast Missile Launcher and up to 4 Heavy Bolters).
Both of which you can aim, and give extra weapons for your Ret squads.
I mean, I might be wrong, a 75 to 170pt fortification that boasts 1-2 weapons that can be placed separately might be great, even if you have absolutely no control over it.
See this is where is was coming from with the Gatling Gun. even with a BS2 you would have 20 shots against troops, yeah sure if they move a heavy in close I would have to counter with something else so I could get back to shooting up troops/light armour.
I hope that came out right.
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: 4500pts
Lothlorien: 3500pts
Rohan: 1500pts
Serpent: 2000pts
Modor: 1500pts |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/29 14:36:22
Subject: Vengeance Weapon Battery Loadout
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Fireknife Shas'el
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The problem is then you're letting your opponent dictate a lot of what you're doing in your turn. For example, they park something AV13-14 as the closest thing to your Gatling Cannon and now you have to focus a lot of firepower on that, which could be an empty bare bones transport, just so your cannons can shoot an actual threat and deal a surprisingly low amount of damage to.
Even in the Battle Cannon example, your opponent can use it to their advantage by moving in close to your other units and force you to focus unnecessary firepower just so you don't risk scattering onto your own units. Tau Stealth suits are a great example of this. Infiltrate + 6" Jetpack move +2D6" thrust move + Stealth Shrouded = a tough to remove unit that will be about 5" away on average with a battle cannon shooting at it on your turn.
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I'm expecting an Imperial Knights supplement dedicated to GW's loyalist apologetics. Codex: White Knights "In the grim dark future, everything is fine."
"The argument is that we have to do this or we will, bit by bit,
lose everything that we hold dear, everything that keeps the business going. Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky."
-Tom Kirby |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/29 14:41:09
Subject: Vengeance Weapon Battery Loadout
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Battleship Captain
Oregon
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Biggest advantage of the VWB is that you can take a pair for every quad gun or bastion you normally take.
Twice as many weapons and twice as durable gives you some significant options.
That said, I still think ADL will be standard because it's flexible, cheap, easy to pack and most people have them.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/29 15:06:45
Subject: Vengeance Weapon Battery Loadout
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Cog in the Machine
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So where does the battle cannon blast get centered? The closest model of the closest unit? That makes it even easier to game.
I think it mostly depends on what you are playing. An army with close range shooting or heavy CC element I would run the punishers to avoid killing myself. Gunline or shooty mech? BC all the way.
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