Imperial Guard Heavy Weapons - Heavy Bolter or Autocannon and why?

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**aliusexalio**

Okay, to wrap this up, I guess combining all the responses (thanks for the mathematic approach, it slightly changed my view on the subject!) we can say that both weapons have a role.

I guess it really depends on what army you are up against.

If you are up against mainly normal infantry you are better off with the heavy bolter and if you are up against high toughness mc's and light vehicles than you are better off with the autocannon. (I woulnd't put the lascannon in this comparison as it is simply more points and clearly dedicated to killing vehicles or ap2 units).

I will stick with my AC's simply because I like the range and play against people that field MC's and walkers.

**Peregrine**

aliusexalio wrote:
If you are up against mainly normal infantry you are better off with the heavy bolter

Nope, you're still better off with the AC since the HB only gains a small advantage against infantry in exchange for being completely useless against anything else. The HB only "wins" if you can guarantee that you will never face vehicles/MCs/etc, and there's no way to get that guarantee unless you're list tailoring (TFG behavior, really) against a specific opponent who uses a pure infantry army.

The important thing to understand about IG is that your heavy and special weapons are there to do the things your lasguns/random Chimera guns/etc can't handle. That means every heavy/special weapon needs to be capable of threatening vehicles/MCs, and anything that can't is a wasted upgrade slot.

**Talore**

Peregrine wrote:
The important thing to understand about IG is that your heavy and special weapons are there to do the things your lasguns/random Chimera guns/etc can't handle. That means every heavy/special weapon needs to be capable of threatening vehicles/MCs, and anything that can't is a wasted upgrade slot.

This is not congruent with the many times you've recommended flamers as IG upgrades.

**Peregrine**

Talore wrote:
This is not congruent with the many times you've recommended flamers as IG upgrades.

Flamers are a very rare exception, and only on a token PCS/SWS that will spend 95% of its time aboard a Vendetta. You don't take them because flamers are awesome, you take them because a PCS is an awful unit that you only take to gain access to the rest of the platoon and it's silly to put more expensive weapons on a unit you will rarely take out of its transport until the last turn of the game. On any squad that will actually be fighting you take melta/plasma.

**TheCustomLime**

I've never cared for the Heavy Bolter myself. 3 shots doesn't really make for a good anti infantry main weapon especially at only S5 AP 4. The only target it's really good against is Tau or Stormtrooper Vets and even then you are better served by the plethora of AP 4 ignores cover weapons out there. It's not bad as a secondary weapon or on a gun platform like a Leman Russ which can take multiples but it's not all that good when used on rather expensive and fragile units. You want as many Lascannons as you can get as they wound just about anything on 2's and force worse saves. Autocannons are good too depending on what you need 'em for.

**Lothar**

Heavy bolter is nigh useless in IG army. ACs are very universal (useable against vehicles and infantry, excelent against light vehicles). HBs are only good against infantry and can be easily replaced with lasguns. Do not bother with them, really...

**Strayan**

Hvy Bltrs have only ever been good against horde foot armies
ie Nids/ Orks/ IG..
But as Pere pointed out your almost!! guaranteed to face MC/ vehicles..
if your expecting such armies then yes HB's in your Inf. blob could do more damage to orks/ nids since your blob will (should) be shooting at their blob...
However, very situational.. since a nob with armour would negate AP5 etc... and are easily countered.. hence the distrust of HB's over AC's..

**eclipseoto**

Okay, so I see the reasoning for wanting a weapon that is better for all around use, but what am I missing about having a squad of HB for any infantry, and then a squad of LC for vehicles?

Is the goal just homogeneity so there are less clearly tailored weak points in the army?

**Peregrine**

eclipseoto wrote:
Okay, so I see the reasoning for wanting a weapon that is better for all around use, but what am I missing about having a squad of HB for any infantry, and then a squad of LC for vehicles?

What you're missing is that you already have anti-infantry from your lasguns, Chimeras, Manticores, etc. The correct thing to do, if you want more anti-horde than a LC squad, is to take a squad of LCs and a squad of ACs. That gives you almost as much shooting against infantry while allowing all of your squads to threaten vehicles.

**NuggzTheNinja**

Inquisitor Jex wrote:
I didn't say lie.

Some folks only have limited choice when it comes to the models they have either because they're on a budget, rejoining and they dust off their old models, got someone who gave them some minis, whatever. They want to know what they can accomplish with what they have. But when they come for advice, they get for answer that they ought to throw in the trash what they have, buy other models, and that even considering playing with what they have is laughable. To me, that is not tactical help.

This is clearly a product of the "everyone gets an award" approach to competition.

**eclipseoto**

Peregrine wrote:

What you're missing is that you already have anti-infantry from your lasguns, Chimeras, Manticores, etc. The correct thing to do, if you want more anti-horde than a LC squad, is to take a squad of LCs and a squad of ACs. That gives you almost as much shooting against infantry while allowing all of your squads to threaten vehicles.

I see, so what you're saying is that the gain with HB's against infantry is marginal, whereas the ability to punch through light armor outweighs the slight disadvantage against infantry, which most IG armies are already well equipped to handle anyway. Interesting point!

**Fezman**

Going to have to add my support to the autocannon crowd. Missing out on the extra shot is no big deal when compared to the above-mentioned advantages of the AC. When you consider they cost the same, then it's no contest for me...

**alarmingrick**

AC all the way! Any HBs I have are stuck on my Leman Russ!

Peregrine wrote:
The correct thing to do,

I feel more comfortable when someone presents me with another option, not telling me what's incorrect/correct. I think maybe that's what other posters are talking about.
I'm old, and I like to think smart, enough to make my own choices. I don't have a problem with accepting info and weighing it myself to come up with what's correct for me.
Just sayin'....

**MWHistorian**

The only time I've found heavy bolters useful is when my Sisters get an Act of Faith and make them Rending. Other than that, AC all the way. My Rifle Dreads love 'em.