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 Exergy wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

 Kain wrote:
Both the MoT and MoN means on average two lascannon shots will end you, but if you roll badly for the MoT you autodie, while if you fail a save for the MoN against the lascannon, so what? You still have a wound left.

It takes a lot more than 2 shots. It takes 1.8 HITs to kill an unmarked one, for IG that is usually 3.6 shots, less for vendettas and vets.

Lascannons hits
Unmarked 1.8 hits to kill
MoN 3.6 hits
MoT 2.4 hits

Furthermore, MoN can take advantage of ruins, ADL, gtg, and some other obscure cover. MoT gets less effectiveness out of cover, because the cover save needs to be better than 4+ for them to get anything out of it.

But hey, the MoT can get soul blaze which does erm....waste everyone's time?

They cant even get soul blaze

They do have fear, it means they don't even need a nurgle flag to be close to them!

MarsNZ wrote:


Random krak missiles and stupid Khorne's Wrath from the Warp Storm ( ) has changed my views on this (I am the Black Legion player in question).

To be fair, I wasn't thrilled to have the Blood God weigh in, even if it was darned handy

This is kinda off topic, but is there any good reason one would give UglyBliterators the MoS?

That +1 to initiative seems so wasted on them.

 Redcruisair wrote:
This is kinda off topic, but is there any good reason one would give UglyBliterators the MoS?

That +1 to initiative seems so wasted on them.

As a Tau i would love to give +1 initiative to anything i had... :S

The Mark of Nurgle gives Shroud doesnt it? or is it +1 Thoughness ?
Both is pretty good imo, so i dont really see the issue to why you wouldnt take it.

Dracoknight wrote:

 Redcruisair wrote:
This is kinda off topic, but is there any good reason one would give UglyBliterators the MoS?

That +1 to initiative seems so wasted on them.

As a Tau i would love to give +1 initiative to anything i had... :S

The Mark of Nurgle gives Shroud doesnt it? or is it +1 Thoughness ?
Both is pretty good imo, so i dont really see the issue to why you wouldnt take it.

Nurglite Daemons get shroud, Nurglite marines get +1 toughness.

As for why the MoS is useless on oblits, Obliterators use power fists in assault and you can't get the Icon of excess on them for FNP.

Yeah, MoN is pretty essential imo. Not only does it prevent you getting ID'd by S8, but also that extra point of Toughness is useful in every situation except for you being shot by something that's S7. Every other time, MoN is being useful. So, unless you only play against Lootas and Quad Guns, I'd definitely recommend MoN. It's actually really cheap for what it gives you. Save points elsewhere.

Yeah Mark or Slaanesh serves almost no purpose.

Oblits have fists, so always strike at I1 and cannot sweep because they are slow and purposeful.

The only thing that it does is improve their chance of passing an Initiative check. So if you face tons of Jaws of the World Wolf, maybe I could see taking it, but probably not even then.

Breng77 wrote:
Yeah Mark or Slaanesh serves almost no purpose.

Oblits have fists, so always strike at I1 and cannot sweep because they are slow and purposeful.

The only thing that it does is improve their chance of passing an Initiative check. So if you face tons of Jaws of the World Wolf, maybe I could see taking it, but probably not even then.

It also reduces the chance that they can get swept, as they are not fearless.

It also makes them pink

If only it allowed you to morph blastmasters or doomsirens.....

@Ailaros

I play Eldar and my buddy plays CSM. I used to wipe out whole squads of oblits and multiwound termies with my Lances and yes I can field an obscene number. the day he switched to nurgle was a sad day from the space elves. had to fire twice as many shots.

I can usually clump oblits in with armor when dealing with target priority because they require the same weapon to kill easily. so im going to kill it with a Lance weather its on first or 3rd turn.

so for a minor 8 point upgrade your doubling the survivability of a light tank in essence.

the only reason I would say no marks is if you take a no upgrades list and just try and put a zillion bodies on the field.

If you are just putting un-upgraded bodies on the field, don't take oblits, take Havocs! If you are paying the points for oblits then the MON is essential.

Also, I would argue the Veterans of the Long War upgrade is also near mandatory (unless you are really squeezing in the points), for large squads. And large squads are better. Once again, it's insurance that your unit won't decide to run off the field... or get swept in combat.... the 1 point increase in leadership makes a big difference. Another solution to that problem is using attaching a terminator Nurgle lord such as Typhus.

Always worth it, getting ID's and losing an oblit hurts.

 Meade wrote:
If you are just putting un-upgraded bodies on the field, don't take oblits, take Havocs! If you are paying the points for oblits then the MON is essential.

Also, I would argue the Veterans of the Long War upgrade is also near mandatory (unless you are really squeezing in the points), for large squads. And large squads are better. Once again, it's insurance that your unit won't decide to run off the field... or get swept in combat.... the 1 point increase in leadership makes a big difference. Another solution to that problem is using attaching a terminator Nurgle lord such as Typhus.

That's where I am heading since I'd like to run unmarked.
Havocs or Predators would provide the same sort of firepower with no need to mark and less LD issues.

 minigun762 wrote:
Quite simply, how much am I hurting myself if I run them stock to save points?

You will regret it. Like I did.

 Ailaros wrote:
How much does MoN help you against bolters?

Spoken like someone who does not understand the rule of resilience.

How much does T5 vs T4 help vs bolters?
100 bolter shots are fired at a T4 target by MEQ. 66.6 hit. 33.3 wound.
100 bolter shots are fired at a T5 target by MEQ. 66.6 hit. 22.2 wound.
So the T4 target took literally 50% more damage than the T5 target.

What does this mean in the real world? Your MoN oblits will stick around 50% longer than unmarked oblits. This could easily be an extra turn or two of shooting.
For the cost of the mark, its a great investment.

Edit : Your a smart guy Ailaros. I don't mean to pick on you or single you out - I'm trying to demonstrate why a single pip in toughness increase can make such a dramatic effect in the game

Quite simply, if you take a unit of 3 oblit with MoN and Veterans of the Long War, your opponent has a lot of work to do to make them go away.

For a small investment, you make a ridiculously cheesy unit more cheesy......I can't even believe this can be disagreed on.

 g0atsticks wrote:
For a small investment, you make a ridiculously cheesy unit more cheesy......I can't even believe this can be disagreed on.

How exactly are Oblits cheesy?

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

 g0atsticks wrote:
For a small investment, you make a ridiculously cheesy unit more cheesy......I can't even believe this can be disagreed on.

How exactly are Oblits cheesy?

yeah, they are pretty well priced for what they do and are very slow.

I start every Chaos list with 6 of them, I would consider FnP, but who wants a Oblit covered in icks, its, and ussies with horns coming out of it. Rule of cool dudes, keep it Nurgle.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
How exactly are Oblits cheesy?

+1 to this.

Oblits are decent, but not 'cheesy' by any stretch of the imagination. They are slow. They are limited by what they can do since they must change their weapon every turn.

 labmouse42 wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
How exactly are Oblits cheesy?

+1 to this.

Oblits are decent, but not 'cheesy' by any stretch of the imagination. They are slow. They are limited by what they can do since they must change their weapon every turn.

and they are expensive

if they stock out of the box came with fearless and EW they would be very very good, but not even cheesy yet

if mutilators came stock out of the box came with fearless and EW they still would be subpar

2 or 3 helldrake, maybe cheesy. Oblits, hell no. Helldrake is the only cheesy unit in the codex, barely. Uh, have you tried playing against new Tau with Farsight conclave or New Eldar wave serpent spam? My God.

And without MoN, I wouldn't even take Oblits. considering these things I consider necessary upgrades (that bring them to 79 pts ea) they are definitely well priced for what they do.