Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I just don't know why...

Logically speaking, Roboute Gulliman's wounds are rather... ordinary compared to SOME OTHER wounds. Like Davian Thule's... Let me elaborate. And I know THQ doesn't create canon, but it is still a good example.

Captain Davian Thule of the Blood Ravens was FATALLY poisoned in Dawn of War 2. Literally. He only had a few minutes to live after he was poisoned, however he was put in stasis. He could not even be taken out so the poison could be studied, that's how bad it was. However, he was given an antidote, but had to be put in a dreadnought. He performed fine. More than fine actually.

Roboute Gullliman was a GOD. That is really how the canon puts it. And if somebody found Fulgrim, and got his weapon, and extracted the poison, and developed an antidote, and took Gulliman out of stasis, gave him the antidote, and then put him in a Dreadnought...

We'd have a new apocalypse piece. Oh, and Marneus Calgar would be out of a job.

I'm just saying it's reasonable that Gulliman could be put into a Dreadnought.

I find it amusing that technically according to canon now, Vulkan's tougher than Gulliman. Teehee.

How about have the Baron and his Hellions open up the webway under the throne room and run off with the emperor to see how much pain the old bugger can take leaving earth to fight a ton of Daemons pouring through the now open portal.

That would certainly advance the plot a bit.

Legion of Flame wrote:
I just don't know why...

Logically speaking, Roboute Gulliman's wounds are rather... ordinary compared to SOME OTHER wounds. Like Davian Thule's... Let me elaborate. And I know THQ doesn't create canon, but it is still a good example.

Captain Davian Thule of the Blood Ravens was FATALLY poisoned in Dawn of War 2. Literally. He only had a few minutes to live after he was poisoned, however he was put in stasis. He could not even be taken out so the poison could be studied, that's how bad it was. However, he was given an antidote, but had to be put in a dreadnought. He performed fine. More than fine actually.

Roboute Gullliman was a GOD. That is really how the canon puts it. And if somebody found Fulgrim, and got his weapon, and extracted the poison, and developed an antidote, and took Gulliman out of stasis, gave him the antidote, and then put him in a Dreadnought...

We'd have a new apocalypse piece. Oh, and Marneus Calgar would be out of a job.

I'm just saying it's reasonable that Gulliman could be put into a Dreadnought.

I find it amusing that technically according to canon now, Vulkan's tougher than Gulliman. Teehee.

Roboute's not just wounded. He's poisoned, by a chaos poisoned blade that no one knows the antidote to (and given that the poison is from chaos, as opposed to science, there likely IS no antidote). Despite that, he's healing, anyways (well, "rumoured to be healing", but narrative fiction law means that there's a reasonable chance he actually IS, for the sake of narrative).

He's not healing. He's in a stasis field, in which time is frozen. There's still gobbets of arterial blood spraying out of the wound in his neck from when they put him in that field, hanging in mid-air, for crying out loud.

There are those of the faithful who claim that he's healing, though this is not technically possible, given what we are provided about stasis fields. While, sure, it leaves GW the option to have him miraculously heal, while trapped outside of the flow of time, I don't think it will ever progress beyond this "possible" resolution, which is intended by GW. It lets players make the choice either way.

Except time does pass in a stasis field, just very, very, slowly. Can you see your fingers nails growing, or the crust of the earth moving to create mountains and such. Or maybe perhaps the moon moving away from the earth? Just because something happens on a scale you can not detect, does not mean that they do not happen.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Except time does pass in a stasis field, just very, very, slowly. Can you see your fingers nails growing, or the crust of the earth moving to create mountains and such. Or maybe perhaps the moon moving away from the earth? Just because something happens on a scale you can not detect, does not mean that they do not happen.

Heck, maybe the advance systems a primarch has can filter out the poison given the time? stranger things have happen in 40k

While it's possible that time is passing *very* slowly in the stasis field (so slowly as to be imperceptible by those within and without the field), the description of Guilliman's injuries indicate that, if he *is* healing, it will be M175 before he can do anything.

If a Primarch is coming back, it ain't going to be him, unless some other miracle takes place.

If the faithfuls tales be true (who knows). Then he has gone from having a blood spurting wound to signs of healing in the last ten thousand years. Add to the fact that he is a Primarch, so anything is possible. Even him slowly opening his eyes over a period of five hundred years. Never under estimate the fluff armour of a Primarch.

Well, yes, of course. "Because Plot!" allows Primarchs, specifically, and Space Marines, in general, to do all sorts of stuff that aren't really all that possible (like have ten dudes shut down an entire planet's military by killing twenty other dudes) within the setting if you stopped to think about it for 30 seconds.

True, there are a fair few WTF moments in the setting thanks to authors overdosing on coffee that make me do this . But the big blue smurf healing in his bubble is not one of them.

Lol, Kyme has never been a particularly good BL author ( as if there are more than one or two...) but if that spoiler from Vulkan Lives ( nice work destroying yet another small mystery that made the setting interesting in the worst way possible) then it would once again highlight that the primarchs should have never been described in detail.
Mythical demigods which suddenly become one dimensional cartoon characters because the authors who write about them are deeply mediocre isn't exactly my cup of tea. Ah well, but perhaps i am wrong and Wolveri- erm, Vulkan Lives is better than i expect (not that Kyme has a good track record in that regard).

I think there should be poll on which author should get to write the book on the Emperor and his background (if there is one in the pipeline) and make it obvious to BL which authors write utter, gak and who should get the sack. Plus it will be easier for the hit squads to find their targets should they under perform again.

My vote is still goes to Johnson for the one to come back.

No. Just "No".

Steelmage99 wrote:
No. Just "No".

Wow, what a argument. So much backing that statement up it's boggling my mind.

If any primarch comes back, it'll be Ferrus Mannus.

How about 1 traitor primarch vs other traitor primarch ? Perturabo besieging a p of s , or Magnus attacking Morty ? Angron attacking Fulgrim ? It could be fun....


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
If any primarch comes back, it'll be Ferrus Mannus.

As mightiest servitor ever....

Honestly, GW should just stop doing the little mincing baby steps and take a big giant leap into the new millennium with a new theme for the storyline, make it a brave new age of conquest and give humanity a chance to actually break even.

Start it with Humanity as low as it can get, with absolutely no hope. Send the Daemon Primarchs hurtling out of the warp, crushing Cadia and on a collision course with Terra. Wake up all the Necrons. Bring the entire Tyranid hive fleet into the galaxy. Let humanity lose nearly all their territory, their backs to the wall with just the Terra sector. Give the Tau even more markerlights.

But then wake up ALL the primarchs and have the Emperor forge himself a new body and walk off the Throne. Bring out a full STC and an invigorated Mechanicum, an energized Astronomicon that can't be dimmed and reaches the entire galaxy. Make it Warhammer 50k, the Second Crusade, where the Imperium of Man turns around and has an even fight for once with the full might, technology and valor of Humanity. Think of all the new toys they could sell.

I think Vulkan, especially given the outcomes of Vulkan Lives, would be the best option to come back and lead mankind against chaos. He's one of the only primarrchs that's truly interested in giving the imperium to the people.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

KingDeath wrote:
Lol, Kyme has never been a particularly good BL author ( as if there are more than one or two...) but if that spoiler from Vulkan Lives ( nice work destroying yet another small mystery that made the setting interesting in the worst way possible) then it would once again highlight that the primarchs should have never been described in detail.
Mythical demigods which suddenly become one dimensional cartoon characters because the authors who write about them are deeply mediocre isn't exactly my cup of tea. Ah well, but perhaps i am wrong and Wolveri- erm, Vulkan Lives is better than i expect (not that Kyme has a good track record in that regard).

It is. And the Primarchs that have been detailed have hardly been "cartoon characters".

I can see Leman Russ returning but I do not know much about any others to know what happened to most of them,.

There will be grim and there will be darkness.

 Badablack wrote:

But then wake up ALL the primarchs and have the Emperor forge himself a new body and walk off the Throne

 BlaxicanX wrote:
If any primarch comes back, it'll be Ferrus Mannus.

I was betting on Sanguinius...

Nah, it's going to be one of the two missing Primarchs for sure.

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, yes, of course. "Because Plot!" allows Primarchs, specifically, and Space Marines, in general, to do all sorts of stuff that aren't really all that possible (like have ten dudes shut down an entire planet's military by killing twenty other dudes) within the setting if you stopped to think about it for 30 seconds.

"Because plot!" is precisely the reason why I think GW could bring Roboute back, really. They wouldn't have bothered mentioning the speculation of him healing if they didn't at least want to keep the option open.

I mean, hell, they're even leaving the possibility of Ferrus Manus coming back open, and he's far more dead than Roboute is. Dom was also retconned to leave open the option of him returning.

Really, the only Primarch that's currently stated in-universe to have no legends of returning Is Sanguinus (and even he has the Sanguinar, although I wouldn't really count a spirit/ghost (if that's what Sanguinor is) as "returning". If we were to include spirits, the only character that can't return at all is Horus, with even the body being anhilated eventually during the Bile incident).

If the story were to advance too far we would be playing warhammer 41k... And it would be nice to have the primarchs back cause i love to read about them.. But on table top it would throw the balance way off... A primarch would cost roughly 500/1000 points on its own?

Also i think if a primarch were to show up ALL loyal SM would follow him... In the Horus heresy books normal Space marines seem to have problems saying no to a primarch..especially their own. If more were to show up there would first be a power struggle as of who will lead the imperium in daddy's abscence?

TiamatRoar wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, yes, of course. "Because Plot!" allows Primarchs, specifically, and Space Marines, in general, to do all sorts of stuff that aren't really all that possible (like have ten dudes shut down an entire planet's military by killing twenty other dudes) within the setting if you stopped to think about it for 30 seconds.

"Because plot!" is precisely the reason why I think GW could bring Roboute back, really. They wouldn't have bothered mentioning the speculation of him healing if they didn't at least want to keep the option open.

I mean, hell, they're even leaving the possibility of Ferrus Manus coming back open, and he's far more dead than Roboute is. Dom was also retconned to leave open the option of him returning.

Really, the only Primarch that's currently stated in-universe to have no legends of returning Is Sanguinus (and even he has the Sanguinar, although I wouldn't really count a spirit/ghost (if that's what Sanguinor is) as "returning". If we were to include spirits, the only character that can't return at all is Horus, with even the body being anhilated eventually during the Bile incident).

They are seemingly opening up the possibility of Roboute's return even more with the HH series. Spoiler from Angel Exterminatus



Seems that BL is taking it a bit far. Hopefully the normal/upcoming codex/supplement will not start taking over some of this when mentioning Roboute.

 Waaghboss Grobnub wrote:
If the story were to advance too far we would be playing warhammer 41k... And it would be nice to have the primarchs back cause i love to read about them.. But on table top it would throw the balance way off... A primarch would cost roughly 500/1000 points on its own?

Also i think if a primarch were to show up ALL loyal SM would follow him... In the Horus heresy books normal Space marines seem to have problems saying no to a primarch..especially their own. If more were to show up there would first be a power struggle as of who will lead the imperium in daddy's abscence?

No more than a Chaos Primarch showing up. ( to which Chaos player drool over ) And 500 points in a 3000 point game would be fair. Have a rule stating that they don't join a battle below a certion point base to keep it fluffy.

 Waaghboss Grobnub wrote:
If the story were to advance too far we would be playing warhammer 41k... And it would be nice to have the primarchs back cause i love to read about them.. But on table top it would throw the balance way off... A primarch would cost roughly 500/1000 points on its own?

Also i think if a primarch were to show up ALL loyal SM would follow him... In the Horus heresy books normal Space marines seem to have problems saying no to a primarch..especially their own. If more were to show up there would first be a power struggle as of who will lead the imperium in daddy's abscence?

There are already playable primarchs and daemon primarchs (though I'm not sure the latter are legal anymore). Pre-heresy Fulgrim is 380 points while Horus is the most expensive at 500 points, and they're working on making the rest of them for the 2nd Horus Heresy Imperial Amour book, too.


As for the power struggle, there doesn't have to be a power struggle. Yes, the Imperium has gone to hell, however, it should be noted that it went to hell UNDER THE SYSTEM THAT THE PRIMARCHS AGREED TO AND SET UP. In fact, Rogal Dom was with the Imperium for like, almost up to a thousand years AFTER the Heresy had ended before he was finally lost, and during that time and the present day, not much has changed. People keep saying Roboute would depose the High Lords of Terra but apparently conveniently forget that he's the one that set up the High Lords of Terra and was a High Lord of Terra (and only ONE of twelve) as the Master of the Administration, himself, and the Primarchs were charismatic to normal human beings too. I imagine if Roboute woke up, the current Master of the Administration would probably be so awed by him that he'd probably just step aside and say "Here, sir, have your seat back!"

In essence, for the primarchs to power struggle against present day Imperium, they'd be struggling against something that was their fault in the first place. And it's questionable if they'd be willing to do that. It'd be like saying "Oh, yea, I could totally do things better, even though the way things are being done now was how I set things up in the first place." The exceptions are generally the ones who hate politics, anyways (Leman Russ, Vulkan, etc) and thus wouldn't make any power grabs. The Lion miiight, but his awakening is based on the Emperor himself waking up the Lion, and I doubt Emps is gonna say "Hey son! I woke you up! Now go start a giant civil war while we have Tyranids, Necrons, and Chaos knocking on our doorstep!"

I think Leman Russ should come back.Didn't he pursue chaos into the warp with the 13th company?(according to a Eye of terror era index astartes)Who returned during the 13th black crusade?(Just noticed that 13 returned for the 13th black crusade)Also:The Imperium would be much better off ruled by a drunk spess Viking instead of a corp-BLAM,"Heresy!"

Or they could do a big exploration fleet going into the ghoul stars running the gambit of Nids, Tau, Necrons, Choas Warbands, and whatever else may be hiding out there.