Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added]

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**Nut's Chiropractor**

Yeah, FW legality is a tad off-topic

**JOHIRA**

Actually, I really like the assault centurions.

Not as Space Marines, no, in that role they look ridiculous. And I don't doubt that game mechanic-wise they're disappointing too.

No, for a long time I've had this army concept in mind for a space marine army that is basically mercenaries scouring the wreckage of past battles to outfit themselves. So as little powered armor as I can manage, but loads of scouts and vehicles like the landspeeder storm and the stormraven with magna-claws attached to haul out large pieces of junk. The centurions, with a little creative modding, would be about perfect for mining exo-suits that have been repurposed as heavy armor. Get rid of those stupid chest guns and replace them with hydraulic hoses, put the drills on the hands rather than hanging under them, and swap out the power armor inside for just some guy in a suit, get rid of the crotch plate, paint it in non-primary colors and dirty it up a bit and I think you'd have something really special.

But yeah, if you play traditional MEQ and you wanted something cool for your army, I feel for you. Maybe next edition your Weebles that Wobble but Don't Fall Down will at least have rules to counter-act their disappointing appearance.

**Nut's Chiropractor**

I'm interested in how the chapter-specific chapter tactics are gunna work. How do ya signify what chapter you're using? Are they gunna be HQ upgrades, like a 'Seal of the Imperial Fists' does x, y and z etc?

**Imperial Deceit**

FW Keeping true to the aesthetics of 30k is not a bad thing. And some of their recent stuff with the Mechanicus is amazing. If GW released anything that even hinted at the Imperium having automata the fluff Nazis would have a conniption. Plus don’t forget FW also does a lot of impressive Fantasy stuff as well. Do I wish there was more cross over between GW and FW? Absolutely. Imagine what FW could contribute to a codex like SM, and you can bet that if FW had made the centurion it would get a lot less complaints.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Is it offically a chapter tactics thing or are they going back to the traits and draw backs of 4th?

**whigwam**

Nut's Chiropractor wrote:
I'm interested in how the chapter-specific chapter tactics are gunna work. How do ya signify what chapter you're using? Are they gunna be HQ upgrades, like a 'Seal of the Imperial Fists' does x, y and z etc?

I'm very curious about this as well. One big question, will we be able to ally one C:SM chapter with another C:SM chapter? It would be pretty silly if Templars could ally with Blood Angels but not, say, Imperial Fists...but then it could also be silly to allow a book to ally with itself and effectively gain a 4th HS, Elite, or FA slot.

**lord_blackfang**

Nut's Chiropractor wrote:
I'm interested in how the chapter-specific chapter tactics are gunna work. How do ya signify what chapter you're using? Are they gunna be HQ upgrades, like a 'Seal of the Imperial Fists' does x, y and z etc?

I imagine the same way you signify you're using Farsight Enclave or Iyanden.

**AlmightyWalrus**

whigwam wrote:
but then it could also be silly to allow a book to ally with itself and effectively gain a 4th HS, Elite, or FA slot.

Tell that to the Farsight Supplement...

**Imperial Deceit**

No what we need is some overly convoluted system for unlocking models and traits. Something that require math, and equations, and maybe online assistance.

**plastictrees**

JOHIRA wrote:
put the drills on the hands rather than hanging under them .

But then how will they safely take their Imperial Muffins out of the oven? You're not maintaining a coherent narrative here.

In the spirit of everyone yelling their opinions into the uncaring void, I actually got a bit excited at the SM: Codex rumours. I purged about $2,000 worth of marine stuff a year or so ago and didn't see myself ever playing 40k again, but I do have a handful of marines and a few friends that still play, so the temptation is always there, like the liter of horse tranquilizers I keep in the crawl space.
The Centurions look like a Space Crusade supplement. I guess that's an insult. I loved Space Crusade when I was 10 and wish I'd kept my copy to play with my boys, but...
I'm sure that there's some cool things you could do with the models, but at what will probably be $100 Canadian for 3, I don't think I'll be buying any to experiment with.

**Ishandria**

TomWB wrote:
My 2p in terms of a slight redesign of the Centurions:

Basically to get those plates out of the way, and give them normal feet, so they look like they might actually be able to walk...

I'm hoping there will be a normal crotch behind all the plating...

Imagine it with a Loinscloth instead of the crotch plate

**lord_blackfang**

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
whigwam wrote:
but then it could also be silly to allow a book to ally with itself and effectively gain a 4th HS, Elite, or FA slot.

Tell that to the Farsight Supplement...

Also works for Orks, Necrons and IG with Forgeworld alternate lists.

**Imperial Deceit**

Couldn't you just ally a different space marine chapter?

**Tannhauser42**

As long as we don't have to take specific special characters to unlock a chapter's abilities, I will be happy. I wouldn't mind having to pay a certain amount of points to gain it, but I dislike having to take a specific HQ. It's bad enough that certain special characters (who are supposed to be unique individuals) seem to be at every single battle in the galaxy because of their effectiveness, but I don't want it to be a requirement to play the army.

**Brock79**

Centurions; love the devastator versions, loathe the assault versions - I think it's the drills that I dislike the most. They'd look fine on a Dreadnought but not so much on these.
Vanguard: they look spectacular, here's hoping they aren't super expensive point sinks.
Sternguard: not much to see yet, but really liking the rumor of having many weapon options on the sprue.
Hunter: I want to see a few different pictures, but so far it looks kind of dopey. The independent guns pointing/firing in different directions just looks goofy.
Stalker: Love it, can't wait to see the rules.
Captain: Eh, I dislike the Roman crests personally and the slightly altered AoBR pose doesn't do much for me.
Chaplain: Don't care for, and with GW seemingly unable to decide on a tabletop role for them we'll probably get expensive 3+/4++ power mauls with a mediocre ruleset that will be outshone by...
Librarian: Don't care for the model, clipping the cherub is a good start however. Will likely see a lot of these in armies if they decide to make them as cheap as the DA librarian.

Overall I like a lot of what I see and am reading. The idea of all of the first founding chapters getting a dedicated section is a great one along with special rules which would be much, much better than having to take a special character to give an army a unique flavor - providing you don't still have to take a special character! I can't wait to see more.

**Crimson**

I'm really interested to see how chapter traits work. Are they just seven fixed sets or are we able to mix and match to create our own chapters? What will happen to Crimson Fists; will they just use Imperial Fists' rules? And how will special characters work?

**Imperial Deceit**

I like the idea of buying upgrades for generic HQs to unlock chapter traits. It lets you build your own chapter without having to use that one specific guy.

**MajorWesJanson**

Lord Scythican wrote:

Okay what I don't get is that supposedly a marine is inside of this thing right? I just see him being very comfortable....

Arms and head are still a problem, but if you drop the torso down so the belt matches the belt on the centurion, the legs connect back to the body. And put the legs up so the knees connect again, the joint is in the right place, just the feet are not at the bottom, he stands on top of the dreadnought feet like little stilts.

**VoidAngel**

MandalorynOranj wrote:
His Master's Voice wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
Yup. As I thought. "They've totally always been there, just off camera! Honest!".

And your solution to introducing new units would be?

Tech-Marines from the such-and-such chapter have developed this innovative new suit to deal with the challenges faced in the so-and-so campaign. It's been a slow process, but eventually they have been making their way into other chapters when their usefulness became apparent.

That could potentially still have them be around for a long time, but it's only now that they're seeing widespread use and distribution.

Newly discovered STC. There, done. Old design, lost for millenia or never produced because the Dark Age of Technology...blah...blah...blah.

**RunningWithScissors49**

Brock79 wrote:

Hunter: I want to see a few different pictures, but so far it looks kind of dopey. The independent guns pointing/firing in different directions just looks goofy.
Stalker: Love it, can't wait to see the rules.

Just FYI, you got the two mixed up. The Hunter is the large single barreled one.

**Crimson**

VoidAngel wrote:

Newly discovered STC. There, done. Old design, lost for millenia or never produced because the Dark Age of Technology...blah...blah...blah.

Do you think they should have used this approach with every new item and vehicle added to the game since Rogue Trader?

**Imperial Deceit**

That was a huge gap for a double post.

**Nocturnus**

Zweischneid wrote:
Imperial Deceit wrote:
People will always be resistant to FW. While there are certainly some OP units in the IA books, that's also true of the GW codex. Although it seems like those same people don't seem to mind FW when I use one of there underpowered units...

The problem is that Forge World isn't doing anything interesting anymore. They've largely given up innovating and seem to be content with becoming a guarded recluse for jaded gronards.

I am continually impressed with GW innovating and pushing the envelope, something that used to be Forge World's strength before they .. well, just gave up..

FW's Horus Heresy book in particular is just one giant copy-&-paste from Black Library, down to unit names and even named characters. Innovation? Zero. The miniatures may be decent sculpts, no doubt, but they are all timid iterations of the same old Space Marine and Terminator aesthetics. Add a spike here. Add a Rogue Trader easter-egg there. That's all. No risk. No fun. No greatness.

This is a far, far cry from the Forge World that dared break new ground for (than) stagnant miniatures lines like the Tau (e.g. XV9 suits).

In contrast, the GW-studio is really not afraid to try new things. The large Walkers like the Riptide or Wraithknight, even the flyers, would've been things from the (back than) more innovation-happy Forge World as little as 2 or 3 years ago.

And even in this, GW is not content. They could've easily done a "Space-Marines-Riptide", since they are on a roll. But they choose not to, instead going once again into a brand new, unfamiliar direction.

I get that the Centurions aren't everyone's cup of tea (though I do like them, and believe more people will as soon as 360-views are there), but they demonstrate a passion for innovation and experimentation that Forge World has sadly lost in recent years.

Sorry but I have to disagree. I think the Horus Heresy book is great. Yes, they did use the Black Library stuff. Is it wrong to maintain continuity? I find the rules/army list is pretty interesting. But, to each his own.
On another note, I can't wait to see proper pics of the Sterguard and new Tac squad. Cheers.

**Imperial Deceit**

I like how his entire reply was someone else post that I already addressed. Seriously, write your own material.

**Mr Morden**

Good - hopefully no more rubbish looking new Marine flyers or Walkers.

AA vehcicles are fine and seem to fit nicely with the Astartes style and methods (unlike the new flyers)

the So very bad

The centurions - I think I just threw up in my brain they are so bad :(

**Imperial Deceit**

What new walker did SM get? All that C:SM ever had was Dreadnoughts.

**Mr Morden**

Well the Grey Knights got the Dredd Knight and it could have been be fed into the normal Astartes - thank god its hasn't but the Centurions are IMHO are no better in terms of asthetics, I guess GW just needs to keep making new marine stuff to sell

**Yodhrin**

Gotta love some folks about here; GW farts out the same old thing but bigger & more toylike, and that's innovation - Forgeworld decides to do a whole series of new books set in a different era than 40K with a different aesthetic, including units for a force that have been huge in the background but almost totally ignored by GW, and they're stagnant and uncreative.

Am I entirely happy with FW's recent output? No, I'd prefer they devote a little more of their design resources to 40K projects, and a lot more to Warhammer Forge, but even with the focus on the Heresy the idea that they're less creative than the main design studio is so blatantly wrong it's almost hilarious.

**Mr Morden**

Agreed - FGW has even done some Mechanicus stuff - and that is years overdue.........

**Imperial Deceit**

There was a lot of negtivity about the Dreadknight. However that was never a possibility of being added to the SM codex. Just like they won't get rune priests or sanguinary guard. Unless they decide to roll every chapter into one huge tome of a codex.

**VoidAngel**

Imperial Deceit wrote:
That was a huge gap for a double post.

I'm not sure who you are talking to. If it's me, your "huge gap" occurred over the last few HOURS. Unlike some, I don't LIVE here. Oh, you had the same idea, earlier? Congratulations. Let me induct you into the honored ranks of Those Who Know A Little About The Grimdarkiverse...

If not me, please disregard.

And yes, to answer the question - one of the best explanations for new stuff is "rediscovered STC" - because GW itself keeps insisting the the Imperium does not innovate.