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I was disappointed at the earlier Salamander rules, but that bit about Vulkan brings me a hooray face.

Love me UM option 1! Anything that helps me against my dice is welcome.

The Ultramarines Tactical trait sounds head and shoulders better than the Fists' Bolter Drill. Reroll all misses with Tactical Marines vs. reroll 1s? That's just kind of insulting if that's exactly how it's written. I'm hoping something got lost in translation or left out.

Hmmm,what happens if you take one of the characters from forge world, since it stated that they replace combat tactics with one of their traits, and since now instead of combat tactics you have those new stuff,usually 2? What do they replace exactly?

 Brother SRM wrote:
The Ultramarines Tactical trait sounds head and shoulders better than the Fists' Bolter Drill. Reroll all misses with Tactical Marines vs. reroll 1s? That's just kind of insulting if that's exactly how it's written. I'm hoping something got lost in translation or left out.

The only way I see this balancing out is if Bolter Drill DOES apply to Sternguard (I know, its rumored not to, but thats pretty bad if not)

Reroll ones to hit with my entire Ultramarines army? My contemptor is going to love that stuff.

Even encourages me to drop the Vindicators and pick up some Devastators/Sternguard/Centurions, depending on their rules.

All tacticals going down in price, presuming the Librarian will match the DA.

Any word on Landspeeders and if the Typhoon Launchers are getting dropped too, seeing as the DA ones are 25pts rather than 40?

Then again, Landspeeders aren't that huge a deal compared to the other stuff in the book that I'd like to see.

Any news on what the 4 new "Masters" released for Apoc will do?

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Any news on what the 4 new "Masters" released for Apoc will do?

Whatever they do in Apocalypse.

I don't see why new masters being released for the new Apocalypse would effect the new Codex: Space Marines. Masters of the Watch didn't become a thing in the 5th Codex when it launched, nor did Masters of the Armory, Fleet, or Recruits.

Any word about assault squads going down in price (point wise )? Also anything about the changes to heroic intervention? Vanguard still elite i hope....

I can't seem to find anything in this thread i might scour the interwebs :/

My Raven Guard are excited

Why do I even bother busting out my chaos marines anymore? If anyone wants to PM me about 3,000 points of Iron Warriors feel free to. I think I'd rather fix up my classic car than ride out another edition as the redheaded stepchild.

 SickSix wrote:

(Is it possible for White Scars to run an all bike army) Yes but you have to take 2 captains so you can get two bike squads to be troops.

This is total crap. So WS players have their entire collection invalidated (those that did build bike armies). So now they will have to run CA to run a 'fluffy' army.

Having to add in an extra HQ doesn't invalidate your entire colection. It just requires a re-jig of your army list. Something that pretty much everyone has to do every single time any codex is revised.

Well I guess my pre-heresy Sons of Horus just found a new home.

Really curious to find out more about gravity weapons, and also what the range of the Hunter's AP2 Armorbane gun is.

I wish CSM had chapter traits like this list, even if some seem more powerful than others I can see any of them being viable.

I'm curious if Ultramarines pick their doctrine at the beginning of a game or when building their list.

Just a little info on the two AA tanks:

They're AV12/12/10 and NEITHER has Interceptor.

ClockworkZion wrote:
Just a little info on the two AA tanks:

They're AV12/12/10 and NEITHER has Interceptor.

aaaaand cue the wailing and gnashing of teeth that GW just screwed Space Marines...

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:
Just a little info on the two AA tanks:

They're AV12/12/10 and NEITHER has Interceptor.

aaaaand cue the wailing and gnashing of teeth that GW just screwed Space Marines...

At least the DA should be happy that they didn't get "stuck" with those things.

So it's not an easy win unit, that's fine for me, working out a good combination and use of units is something I kind of enjoy.

av12 sides makes me happy. That fething Drake vector strike takes out a pred, vindi or whirlwind every turn!

ClockworkZion wrote:
Just a little info on the two AA tanks:

They're AV12/12/10 and NEITHER has Interceptor.

I think they're fine as is. Interceptor+Armourbane? I think that would be very strong. Too strong in fact.

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:
Just a little info on the two AA tanks:

They're AV12/12/10 and NEITHER has Interceptor.

aaaaand cue the wailing and gnashing of teeth that GW just screwed Space Marines...

Not screwed, per se, but I'd be interested in seeing if they are able to shoot ground targets without being BS1. If not, the tanks will be pretty much worthless. If they can shoot ground targets as well, fine, it kind of sucks not having interceptor, but on the other hand, Interceptor is kind of a bs rule anyways in the sense that it can take away enemy models on their turn without getting a chance to use it.

Nocturnus wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:
Just a little info on the two AA tanks:

They're AV12/12/10 and NEITHER has Interceptor.

I think they're fine as is. Interceptor+Armourbane? I think that would be very strong. Too strong in fact.

Only the Hunter has Armourbane, and it only gets one shot as a trade off for it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Crazyterran wrote:

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:
Just a little info on the two AA tanks:

They're AV12/12/10 and NEITHER has Interceptor.

aaaaand cue the wailing and gnashing of teeth that GW just screwed Space Marines...

Not screwed, per se, but I'd be interested in seeing if they are able to shoot ground targets without being BS1. If not, the tanks will be pretty much worthless. If they can shoot ground targets as well, fine, it kind of sucks not having interceptor, but on the other hand, Interceptor is kind of a bs rule anyways in the sense that it can take away enemy models on their turn without getting a chance to use it.

Without Interceptor they have to way to shoot at ground targets at a BS higher than 1 unless they're gun has 2 firing modes, which has not been put forth as an option by the rumors I've seen so far.

Crazyterran wrote:

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:
Just a little info on the two AA tanks:

They're AV12/12/10 and NEITHER has Interceptor.

aaaaand cue the wailing and gnashing of teeth that GW just screwed Space Marines...

Not screwed, per se, but I'd be interested in seeing if they are able to shoot ground targets without being BS1. If not, the tanks will be pretty much worthless. If they can shoot ground targets as well, fine, it kind of sucks not having interceptor, but on the other hand, Interceptor is kind of a bs rule anyways in the sense that it can take away enemy models on their turn without getting a chance to use it.

Without both Skyfire and Interceptor, it is firing at BS 1. But, much like the Hydra, maybe it isn't made to shoot at ground targets. Maybe not everything has to have multiple roles. If one has a lot of reserves/flyers, then it will be a preferred weapon.

ClockworkZion wrote:

Nocturnus wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:
Just a little info on the two AA tanks:

They're AV12/12/10 and NEITHER has Interceptor.

I think they're fine as is. Interceptor+Armourbane? I think that would be very strong. Too strong in fact.

Only the Hunter has Armourbane, and it only gets one shot as a trade off for it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Crazyterran wrote:

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:
Just a little info on the two AA tanks:

They're AV12/12/10 and NEITHER has Interceptor.

aaaaand cue the wailing and gnashing of teeth that GW just screwed Space Marines...

Not screwed, per se, but I'd be interested in seeing if they are able to shoot ground targets without being BS1. If not, the tanks will be pretty much worthless. If they can shoot ground targets as well, fine, it kind of sucks not having interceptor, but on the other hand, Interceptor is kind of a bs rule anyways in the sense that it can take away enemy models on their turn without getting a chance to use it.

Without Interceptor they have to way to shoot at ground targets at a BS higher than 1 unless they're gun has 2 firing modes, which has not been put forth as an option by the rumors I've seen so far.

It only gets one shot, like the Icarus Lascannon. Plus armorbane. I guess it depends on your meta. If you face tons of flyers(stupid Necrons) they will be useful. If you don't face many flyers, not so much. I guess we'll have to wait to see if they can shoot ground targets. Plus, it will probably get FAQ'd.

endlesswaltz123 wrote:

If you choose to play 40K, that is owned and developed by a company such as GW, accept that you are in a constant arms race and stop moaning about it.

You're right, man. Everyone should stop hoping, wishing, or trying to make things better, and just accept everything.

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:

Crazyterran wrote:

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:
Just a little info on the two AA tanks:

They're AV12/12/10 and NEITHER has Interceptor.

aaaaand cue the wailing and gnashing of teeth that GW just screwed Space Marines...

Not screwed, per se, but I'd be interested in seeing if they are able to shoot ground targets without being BS1. If not, the tanks will be pretty much worthless. If they can shoot ground targets as well, fine, it kind of sucks not having interceptor, but on the other hand, Interceptor is kind of a bs rule anyways in the sense that it can take away enemy models on their turn without getting a chance to use it.

Without both Skyfire and Interceptor, it is firing at BS 1. But, much like the Hydra, maybe it isn't made to shoot at ground targets. Maybe not everything has to have multiple roles. If one has a lot of reserves/flyers, then it will be a preferred weapon.

Perhaps. They could always write a special rule in that would allow them to have Skyfire as well as shoot at ground targets, but, like you said, it doesn't need it.

I just probably won't buy any, despite how cool they look, if they aren't usable in my local meta. (which is relatively flyer-light. The most I've seen on the regular basis is two in an army list, being Night Scythes. Well, I did play Elysians one time, but I won on objectives by hitting the deck and praying to the emprah.)

So, I presume that Legion of the Damned are Elites again? Anyone confirm? Any shenanigans to get them to be something else/more/different?

Supposely the big gun on the hunter has armor bane.
Hello new stuff for my tau to ally with, if that is true i may never take a rail gun again

Interceptor, skyfire, armorbane and the likely range (60+) would make it far too good against all vehicles. They need a rule like 'skybane: armorbane vs flyers and fleshbane vs FMC' for it to to not be overwhelming.

I think im drooling. I want that now. Im going to have to convert one but im making it. Even is i have ot use a paint dropper as the cannon.

I have a feeling that without interceptor the two AA tanks will be played fairly lightly over the next year or so.

Then, once more codices are out and a bunch of armies have flyers, and the meta has evolved such that most armies have at least one or two, the tanks will become far more common.

I think, atm, I'd prefer a Stormraven and ADL over the tanks, seeing as those two units can do some solid damage to aerial forces while still doing a lot of damage to ground units. That being said, the moment flyers start popping up in pairs or more on a majority of lists, I'm upgrading to those tanks.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I think im drooling. I want that now. Im going to have to convert one but im making it. Even is i have ot use a paint dropper as the cannon.

Seeing as the tank's are currently shooting at ground targets at BS1, they are meh.

They look amazing, though.

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Brother SRM wrote:
Bolter Drill on all my Tactical Marines? Cool!

Sternguard, the Space Marine veterans who are more disciplined and skilled than Tactical Marines, don't get it? What?

I kind of get it from a game balance perspective, but it doesn't make a lick of sense for tactical Marines to be better shots than veterans.

I read the formatted version of the Q&A that was linked to earlier, and the wording there implies Sternguard will get Bolter Drill, just not for their special ammo(which makes sense in respect that the special ammo likely requires a different skillset to fire than the regular bolter ammo they'd been training with since they were Scouts).

"Let's give sternguard Bolter Drill then take take away the reason you take them in the first place!"

Wow... the more I read about IF/CF the les excited I become...

EDIT:

 l0k1 wrote:
UNIT CHANGES
CHAPTER ABILITIES
- Imperial Fists reroll '1s' to hit with standard bolters (Bolter Drill). Devatators/Centurions have Tank Hunters and +1 on the building damage table.

CHARACTERS
-Several Named Characters retain USRs that affect their entire army.

Ok, if this s true (sternguard get bonus and keep ammo and Kantor keeping army-wide stubborn/scoring stern) I'll be happy