Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added]

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**Red Corsair**

Imperial Deceit wrote:
Centurions seem to be geared toward anti-vehicle pretty heavily, which would have been a big deal in 5th but given how hurt vehicles are in 6th its less important than it was.

Until you realize that anything AT is almost always anti MC. MC's are VERY popular in this edition. I think the centurions will be well worth fielding a unit or two of...

EDIT: The shooty ones of course

**bigboss1o1**

Screw titans I want one of these, looks like something the angry marines would have.

**Gwyidion**

Red Corsair wrote:
Imperial Deceit wrote:
Centurions seem to be geared toward anti-vehicle pretty heavily, which would have been a big deal in 5th but given how hurt vehicles are in 6th its less important than it was.

Until you realize that anything AT is almost always anti MC. MC's are VERY popular in this edition. I think the centurions will be well worth fielding a unit or two of...

EDIT: The shooty ones of course

I was originally pretty concerned about what the centurions will do to the MC meta. However, I realized that as SNP 24" range weapons, they're going to suffer against Eldar MCs, at the least - Wraithlords usually have a pair of S6+ AP2 R36"
weapons, and wraithknights are even worse, able to obtain the S6 Ap2 R48" heavy 3 blast or S10 AP2 R36". Obviously, the latter instagibs the centurions, which means that even running IH centurions won't help.

Likewise against the Riptide, Centurions are slower and shorter ranged, and the Tau have Jet type. They're not really suited to go toe to toe with Tau or Eldar's shooting specialists.

What these things do to Tyranid MCs will be interesting to see, as they're the next codex out.

**Youngblood13**

Exergy wrote:
Do they have one twinlinked heavy bolter or 2 twin linked heavy bolterS. Do they have one twinlinked hurricane bolter or 2 twin linked hurricane bolterS. I keep seeing the S and it clearly looks like they have 2 of each weapon.

Well, the whole idea is that twin-linked weapons are two weapons linked by their mounting or firing system. I suspect that that's where the confusion is coming from. Some people are pluralizing the weapon names because that seems correct in English even though it's incorrect in the context of 40K terminology.

The photos depict Centurions with one row of three Bolter barrels on each side of the chest, which is consistent with a single Hurricane Bolter system (three twin-linked Bolters for a total of six barrels). Similarly, each Devastator Centurion appears to carry two single-barreled heavy weapons, which is consistent with a single twin-linked weapon system (two separate weapons linked to fire as one).

**Alpharius**

The Centurions rules do seem a bit lackluster, as do the models.

Do they really not have an invulnerable save?

**Hulksmash**

Gwyidion wrote:
Red Corsair wrote:
Imperial Deceit wrote:
Centurions seem to be geared toward anti-vehicle pretty heavily, which would have been a big deal in 5th but given how hurt vehicles are in 6th its less important than it was.

Until you realize that anything AT is almost always anti MC. MC's are VERY popular in this edition. I think the centurions will be well worth fielding a unit or two of...

EDIT: The shooty ones of course

I was originally pretty concerned about what the centurions will do to the MC meta. However, I realized that as SNP 24" range weapons, they're going to suffer against Eldar MCs, at the least - Wraithlords usually have a pair of S6+ AP2 R36"
weapons, and wraithknights are even worse, able to obtain the S6 Ap2 R48" heavy 3 blast or S10 AP2 R36". Obviously, the latter instagibs the centurions, which means that even running IH centurions won't help.

Likewise against the Riptide, Centurions are slower and shorter ranged, and the Tau have Jet type. They're not really suited to go toe to toe with Tau or Eldar's shooting specialists.

What these things do to Tyranid MCs will be interesting to see, as they're the next codex out.

Tables are not infinitely large. It's not hard to pin something down by turn 2 with a 24" range weapon. And that doesn't take into account them not using grav weapons (granted, I'm not likely to use them without grav weapons).

**ductvader**

Pretty sure tyranid MCs care much less about these graviton weapons compared to the dreadknight and riptide...there are a lot more bugs and they're a lot sturdier.

Finding the right mix of graviton to plasma is going to be the key.

**Crazyterran**

ClockworkZion wrote:
Lobukia wrote:Wait, if its listing bolter weapons, why would special ammo in a listed weapon not gain the reroll?

From the wording of the rule as given in this quote below:

Nevelon wrote:Hm, something leap out at me in this bit:

Q: Could you shed some light on the UM special rules?
A: Ultra marines are a little lengthy but they choose the doctrines of Tactical, Assault, or Devstator. The Tactical detachment re-roll ones, unless they're tactical marines and they re-roll all failed to hit rolls in the shooting phase. The Assault detachment re-rolls charges, unless they're assault squads, bikes, attack bikes and they get fleet. The Devastator detachment get to re-rolls on snap shots and overwatch shots, unless they're Devastators and they gain relentless as long as they're not disembarking from a transport in the movement phase.

compared with:

Q: What are the Imperial Fists chapter traits?
A: IF get bolter drill and that allows them to re-roll any 1s, it does not work with sternguard special rounds. Also Devs and Centurion Devs get Tank Hunters special Rules with a +1 on damaging buildings.

The UM tac doctrine says in the shooting phase. So you don't get to re-roll during overwatch/interceptor fire, while the IF does. It's a minor boost that the fists have over the ultras. But seeing as we are talking about rumors, filtered through a number of different people, I'm not going to make any assumptions on intricacies of exact wording.

I'll save my getting bent out of shape and nerd rage for when I see pics or have the book in hand. Even then, I might wait for the first FAQ. Overall, I have a positive feeling about the new codex ATM.

That's a good point that I hadn't caught!

And thank you for saving the nerd rage. I've seen so much of it lately I think I may have overdosed.

Lobukia wrote:Wait, if its listing bolter weapons, why would special ammo in a listed weapon not gain the reroll?

Imperial Deceit wrote:If Iron Fists do get their CT exactly as it is currently rumored it doesn't really help their Sternguard. Special Ammo is what Sternguard is all about, otherwise ther are just expensive tactical marines. Besides they are veterans, if anyone should get a bonus for shooting, its them.

You mean "Imperial Fists" I hope.

That aside, I don't know GW's reasoning and we don't have the full verbatim rule, perhaps some logic for it is shared there.

Between you and me, I'd take rerolling ones to hit in the shooting phase, + TL for Tactical Marines, over rerolling ones for bolters only in any phase.

Tigurius makes me urpy. Looks like 5 points less than Eldar's generic farseer + Autarch without upgrades, but tougher, meaner in combat, much better psyker, better reserves manip.

Just - why?

Unless you've seen new points for him, we have no idea how much he costs. Not to mention, as he stands now, he has a mediocre statline by any stretch of the imagination and costs as much as a Land Raider.

**Exergy**

ductvader wrote:
Pretty sure tyranid MCs care much less about these graviton weapons compared to the dreadknight and riptide...there are a lot more bugs and they're a lot sturdier.

Finding the right mix of graviton to plasma is going to be the key.

from what I have seen of the grav guns they are salvo(other than the pistol)
3 shots from the gun or 5 shots from the cannon would be nastier than most plasma which is limited to 2 shots.

Of course the grav gun will suffer like most salvo weapons. When you move it becomes completely useless.

**ClockworkZion**

Alpharius wrote:The Centurions rules do seem a bit lackluster, as do the models.

Do they really not have an invulnerable save?

That's what 40k Radio has been saying.

**ductvader**

What is with this thread duplicating posts?

**Theophony**

ductvader wrote:
What is with this thread duplicating posts?

Because every post is about how bad the centurians look? or because WS got hosed? or because BT want their own Codex?

**ductvader**

I mean...no matter what computer I am on...this thread seems glitchy...I have on three separate occassions had my post...post twice in a row.

**Kroothawk**

ductvader wrote:
What is with this thread duplicating posts?

It is a general glitch of this website. Just do nothing and they disappear after a while.

**d-usa**

It's a database clitch, just ignore your dublicate post and it fixes itself after a minute.

**ductvader**

Could have something to do with my profile but its not happening anywhere else for me

**Alfndrate**

ductvader wrote:
What is with this thread duplicating posts?

It's an issue with the server, just navigate away from it for a moment, and come back...

**ductvader**

sweet

**Exergy**

ClockworkZion wrote:
Alpharius wrote:The Centurions rules do seem a bit lackluster, as do the models.

Do they really not have an invulnerable save?

That's what 40k Radio has been saying.

It might just be that their armor is described as a type of terminator armor(giving them 5++ and deep strike) but not actaully saying it in their entry.

or maybe they are meganobs with targeters.

**spamthulhu**

Wounding every MC on a 3+ and some on a 2+ with an ap2 gun is something a tyranid player ill not smile at. THe only things that won't care would be the termagants. Everything MC will flinch seeing the gun and thats if it only shoots once. If they have multiple shots they will be pretty scary.

Heavy vehicle armies will be the ones giggling when they see a lot of grav weapons.

**Anpu42**

Exergy wrote:
ductvader wrote:
Pretty sure tyranid MCs care much less about these graviton weapons compared to the dreadknight and riptide...there are a lot more bugs and they're a lot sturdier.

Finding the right mix of graviton to plasma is going to be the key.

from what I have seen of the grav guns they are salvo(other than the pistol)
3 shots from the gun or 5 shots from the cannon would be nastier than most plasma which is limited to 2 shots.

Of course the grav gun will suffer like most salvo weapons. When you move it becomes completely useless.

Yes and the "Grav Cannons" are on Centruions, witch are S&P

**Nicorex**

What I want to know is what type of missiles do you get to replace the hurricane bolters on the centurions with? Is it basicly a cyclone/typhoon launcher? just a basic missile launcher or is it something totally new?

**Darkwater**

Any news on if these chapter tactics cost anything to select? If not my poor CSM are very sad as that now means ATSKNF (Arguably the best rule in the game) is only worth .5 points to C:SM and the highly potent (Some seem pretty broken actually so I imagine there's a lot of fake in them) army wide chapter tactics buffs are also .5 points...

**Ferrum_Sanguinis**

Darkwater wrote:
Any news on if these chapter tactics cost anything to select? If not my poor CSM are very sad as that now means ATSKNF (Arguably the best rule in the game) is only worth .5 points to C:SM and the highly potent (Some seem pretty broken actually so I imagine there's a lot of fake in them) army wide chapter tactics buffs are also .5 points...

I agree, at the very least, CSM need to

A.) be 1 point cheaper

B.) have VotLW standard

C.) Both A and B

**Nut's Chiropractor**

Mr Morden wrote:
spiralingcadaver wrote:
perezba7 wrote:
Why would SM's need heavy infantry that are heavier than termies but smaller than a dreads?
QFT, they don't really make sense in the core 'dex, since it's a pretty unnecessary retcon (instead of making some sort of elite-er termie unit)

It would have been fine to stick in some chapter that had a theme about having depleted TDA suits and this is the stop-gap/innovative alternative, or for it to be some sort of specialized experiment, but it's not very fitting in the game world to have a heavier unit than termies that isn't based on them in generic C:SM.

Exactly they have Dreadnoughts and Terminators but I guess GW decided they needed a new unit and got bored with making terrible looking flyers and decided the ruin the look of the infantry as well- plus side if they have rubbish rules and look rubbish - no one will use them and they will be quickly discarded....................surely there was something esle they could have done.......like new Firedrake Salamander Terminators

Conversely the AA Marine tanks make sense - adpations of present deisgns that fit with the fast moving ethos of the Astartes.

I agree, it seems like an awfully dull and safe choice, just to make even bigger, uh, elite-er marines, despite those already existing. It's shoehorned, boring and completely unnecessary complete with rather unflattering models (in my honest opinion). Some sort of new specialist squad with their own special niche instead of being 'even better' would of been nice.

**PaperworkNinja**

bigboss1o1 wrote:
Screw titans I want one of these, looks like something the angry marines would have.

"AND I SHALL FORM THE CAPUT!"

"WE ADVANCE AS ONE! WE ARE FORCE VOLTRONICUS!"

**Chancetragedy**

I can't wait till real leaks start pouring in. Not these "rumors" that lots of people seem to be taking as fact. A lot of over-reaction as usual to something we still don't know about for 100% certainty yet. Although if they made vulkan even better, even with a price increase I will be jumping for joy!

**Gwyidion**

The rumors linked a few pages back have Tigurius @ 165. That's what makes me 'urpy'.

The cool stuff in the codex definitely seems to be chapter tactics - centurions don't seem that good and aren't that nice of models.

You can surely argue that boards aren't infinite sized, but when the two most-recent principle targets of grav weapons - the riptide and the wraithknight, are jet/jump MCs, they both out-range and outpace centurions with grav weapons without breaking a sweat.

The much more vulnerable targets are those with good armor saves but poor movement. Like... terminators, i guess.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Chancetragedy wrote:
I can't wait till real leaks start pouring in. Not these "rumors" that lots of people seem to be taking as fact. A lot of over-reaction as usual to something we still don't know about for 100% certainty yet. Although if they made vulkan even better, even with a price increase I will be jumping for joy!

Either the rumors are coming from someone who has a codex, and are therefore likely very close, barring rules-reading nuance, or,

the person doesn't have a codex, in which case they're probably all wrong.

This close to release, usually the rumors are pretty good. The next stage is photos.

**ClockworkZion**

Exergy wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
Alpharius wrote:The Centurions rules do seem a bit lackluster, as do the models.

Do they really not have an invulnerable save?

That's what 40k Radio has been saying.

It might just be that their armor is described as a type of terminator armor(giving them 5++ and deep strike) but not actaully saying it in their entry.

or maybe they are meganobs with targeters.

Not impossible, but seeing as they've been quoting the wargear section in other rumors I'm not putting my money on that chance. Better to assume they don't have it and enjoy it if they get it instead of the reverse.

**Quintinus**

Gwyidion wrote:
The rumors linked a few pages back have Tigurius @ 165. That's what makes me 'urpy'.

Aaaaand new ally to lead the 50 Guard blob has just been found. This...pleases me.