Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added]

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**kitch102**

Senortaco wrote:
I can imagine the centurions being just
unstoppable in kill-team games

Really? My liquifiers, blasters, dark lances, mass poisoned weapons, and power weapon totting Archon would like to disagree

**Marthike**

kitch102 wrote:
Senortaco wrote:
I can imagine the centurions being just
unstoppable in kill-team games

Really? My liquifiers, blasters, dark lances, mass poisoned weapons, and power weapon totting Archon would like to disagree

Yeah in 200 point you wont be able to fit anything significant, also you can't tank Heavy support in kills teams

**unmercifulconker**

kitch102 wrote:
Senortaco wrote:
I can imagine the centurions being just
unstoppable in kill-team games

Really? My liquifiers, blasters, dark lances, mass poisoned weapons, and power weapon totting Archon would like to disagree

Not before they get blown to smithereens.

**ZebioLizard2**

Marthike wrote:
kitch102 wrote:
Senortaco wrote:
I can imagine the centurions being just
unstoppable in kill-team games

Really? My liquifiers, blasters, dark lances, mass poisoned weapons, and power weapon totting Archon would like to disagree

Yeah in 200 point you wont be able to fit anything significant, also you can't tank Heavy support in kills teams

They are also elite's as well if you want the melee weapons.

**Marthike**

ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Marthike wrote:
kitch102 wrote:
Senortaco wrote:
I can imagine the centurions being just
unstoppable in kill-team games

Really? My liquifiers, blasters, dark lances, mass poisoned weapons, and power weapon totting Archon would like to disagree

Yeah in 200 point you wont be able to fit anything significant, also you can't tank Heavy support in kills teams

They are also elite's as well if you want the melee weapons.

The heavy support ones are so much better

**Imperial Deceit**

For 60 pts having S5 T5 and W2 with split-fire and tank hunters is pretty good. The only reason I see them not having any sort of invul save is that it would make Terminators pointless. But you can still give them one using cover or a Librarian. It fits well with the SM unit cohesion. As I pointed out before, SM really shouldn't have an uber insta-win unit.

**Dundas**

daisho wrote:
It was one thing I thinked about some hours ago. What about Apoclypse ... okok, I know Apocalypse is all about "to hell with rules", but it still has rules - and if someone want to keep it at least somehow competitive:

How does this work out?
Am I able to take a squad of Imperial Fist Devastator squad with their Chapter Tactics, one Tactical squad with Ultramarine Chapcter Tactics, one Raven Guard Assault squad with ...

Which is obviously broken, but I can't see why this doesn't work in Apocalypse?

Given there's not force organisation or limit on allies, it's doesn't seem any more broken than someone taking Wraiths from the Necron Codex, Helldrakes from CSM, Riptides from Tau, etc, etc. Apoc in particular is around what your opponents will let you away with...

**Nut's Chiropractor**

Senortaco wrote:
I can imagine the centurions being just
unstoppable in kill-team games

They cost 60pts a base (that's without upgrades) so they'll also be outnumbered and outgunned.

**MandalorynOranj**

Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
rabid stoat wrote:
Anybody else irritated about the apparent drop in transport capacity for the LR and DP? Not looking forward to being unable to support assault or even vanguard squads with attached characters.

You do realize that the 12 Transport capacity was done by his Wardness purely to see if he could get away with it, and he was promptly chewed out by management? Its why every codex since then has it at 10.

Are you just talking about Imperials? Because Devilfish and Wave Serpents are both 12, and they're the two most recent and neither was written by Ward.

**Crazyterran**

MandalorynOranj wrote:
Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
rabid stoat wrote:
Anybody else irritated about the apparent drop in transport capacity for the LR and DP? Not looking forward to being unable to support assault or even vanguard squads with attached characters.

You do realize that the 12 Transport capacity was done by his Wardness purely to see if he could get away with it, and he was promptly chewed out by management? Its why every codex since then has it at 10.

Are you just talking about Imperials? Because Devilfish and Wave Serpents are both 12, and they're the two most recent and neither was written by Ward.

He's talking about Codex: Space Marines' Land Raiders, Drop Pods having 2 more capacity than any other Chapters Drop Pods or Land Raiders.

Land Raider Crusaders will still be 16, at least.

**Imperial Deceit**

See I didn't even know about the drop pod thing, as my BA have always been at 10 for DP. So I guess you can't really miss what you never had. :p

**SickSix**

Personally I thought the DP and LR capacity only made since to be 12. Seems silly to me that you cant take 5 termies and an HQ in a Land Raider.

**Pyriel-**

Lucarikx wrote:
Snrub wrote:
Anyone notice this picture on the GW page?

That looks like the new commander standing next to the banner bearer. And those tac marines look different too.

The commander is actually a Sicarus conversion

The painter of the IF has been on the WD Daily several times showing his mad skillz at painting yellow. I think he use FW bits + regular marine bits to get the look.

On topic:

It looks like those blue marines will be on the rise.... Good thing my LGS is more focused on WFB now.

Lucarikx

Mad skillz? Where?

**NickTheButcher**

SickSix wrote:
Personally I thought the DP and LR capacity only made since to be 12. Seems silly to me that you cant take 5 termies and an HQ in a Land Raider.

What's even more odd to me is that the LR and LRR are the same chassis, yet have different capacities all of a sudden.

**Pyriel-**

Vain wrote:
ph34r wrote:
That's a cool concept but fundamentally does not seem to make sense, deathwatch are all so diverse that them all having bionics for one battle or all being elite flamer experts for one battle would never happen.

Bah, that just shows a lack of imagination.

Iron Hands 6+ FNP due to extensive Bionics = Watch-house with a close working relationship with a nearby forgeworld specialising in bionics or Armour. The force shown are those who have served for the past few years and have benefited from the repairs.
Salamanders Rerolls for flame weapons = Their greatest Watch-Captain in the past 200 years was a Sally who demonstrated the benefits of flamer-maintenance and correct fuel mix so well that even now the current Brother Tech-marines follow his practices.

Those are just for the ones you mentioned. The Ultramarine options are easy to explain away as "They are Elite Xeno Killers" from middle, close and long distance respectively.

Ok, maybe it is because I personally run a Deathwatch force myself that I have put some thought in it, but personally can't think of any reason I cannot think of a justification for to use these chapter Tactics. Feel free to test this claim as well.

No, it shows an understanding of proper fluff.

Want jump pack, FnP, heavy weapon toting, relentless, tank hunter marines in the same squad too?

**Lansirill**

Pyriel- wrote:

Want jump pack, FnP, heavy weapon toting, relentless, tank hunter marines in the same squad too?

Yes. I would like a unicorn that farts frozen custard too.

**SoloFalcon1138**

NickTheButcher wrote:
SickSix wrote:
Personally I thought the DP and LR capacity only made since to be 12. Seems silly to me that you cant take 5 termies and an HQ in a Land Raider.

What's even more odd to me is that the LR and LRR are the same chassis, yet have different capacities all of a sudden.

This has always been different. The rationale is that without the power generators for the lascannons, they can fit more inside the vehicle.

**Leth**

Ever played the deathwatch RPG? They even have squad tactics based on the chapters of the kill team members. No reason that it could not be more subtle on a army wide scale.

Then again I made a very large deathwatch army.

**daisho**

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
NickTheButcher wrote:
SickSix wrote:
Personally I thought the DP and LR capacity only made since to be 12. Seems silly to me that you cant take 5 termies and an HQ in a Land Raider.

What's even more odd to me is that the LR and LRR are the same chassis, yet have different capacities all of a sudden.

This has always been different. The rationale is that without the power generators for the lascannons, they can fit more inside the vehicle.

Or the Land Raider Achilles ... suddenly only a capacity of 6. Of course that power generator or ammunition storage for the Thunderfire Cannon must be so big that even a Techmarine on foot could hide it

**DaddyWarcrimes**

NickTheButcher wrote:
SickSix wrote:
Personally I thought the DP and LR capacity only made since to be 12. Seems silly to me that you cant take 5 termies and an HQ in a Land Raider.

What's even more odd to me is that the LR and LRR are the same chassis, yet have different capacities all of a sudden.

That makes sense. The lascannons have giant banks of capacitors that take up a lot of internal volume. By replacing the lascannons with racks of belt-fed bolters, those capacitors can be removed which frees up a lot of internal space. The same is true of replacing the lascannons with Redeemer cannons. All that's really needed internally are the pumps that spray the promethium and the tanks that store it. With the tanks outside the hull, there's room for a few more Space Marines.

**Puscifer**

Pyriel- wrote:
Vain wrote:
ph34r wrote:
That's a cool concept but fundamentally does not seem to make sense, deathwatch are all so diverse that them all having bionics for one battle or all being elite flamer experts for one battle would never happen.

Bah, that just shows a lack of imagination.

Iron Hands 6+ FNP due to extensive Bionics = Watch-house with a close working relationship with a nearby forgeworld specialising in bionics or Armour. The force shown are those who have served for the past few years and have benefited from the repairs.
Salamanders Rerolls for flame weapons = Their greatest Watch-Captain in the past 200 years was a Sally who demonstrated the benefits of flamer-maintenance and correct fuel mix so well that even now the current Brother Tech-marines follow his practices.

Those are just for the ones you mentioned. The Ultramarine options are easy to explain away as "They are Elite Xeno Killers" from middle, close and long distance respectively.

Ok, maybe it is because I personally run a Deathwatch force myself that I have put some thought in it, but personally can't think of any reason I cannot think of a justification for to use these chapter Tactics. Feel free to test this claim as well.

No, it shows an understanding of proper fluff.

Want jump pack, FnP, heavy weapon toting, relentless, tank hunter marines in the same squad too?

While I can see your argument, the fact that players are entitled to do whatever they want with their armies outweighs this.

I've seen players with CSM armies based on WoW Death Knights. I've seen plenty of Custodes armies too, using GK.

No we don't want one squad with all those rules or even different rules for each squad.

Seeing as a Kill Team will have multiple chapters represented, it seems fitting that they would be able to use the plethora of skills each Chapter has.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
So in one game my army will use Crimson Fist Tactics and in another, Ultramarines.

**MajorWesJanson**

SickSix wrote:
Personally I thought the DP and LR capacity only made since to be 12. Seems silly to me that you cant take 5 termies and an HQ in a Land Raider.

It would be nice, and I am going to miss the ability to run a full 10 man sternguard squad (that can combat squad) plus Kantor in a drop pod, but it was kind of stupid to give them 12 model capacity when the brand new drop pod model comes with 10 seats.

**ductvader**

MajorWesJanson wrote:
SickSix wrote:
Personally I thought the DP and LR capacity only made since to be 12. Seems silly to me that you cant take 5 termies and an HQ in a Land Raider.

It would be nice, and I am going to miss the ability to run a full 10 man sternguard squad (that can combat squad) plus Kantor in a drop pod, but it was kind of stupid to give them 12 model capacity when the brand new drop pod model comes with 10 seats.

There's enough space on the ceiling for two more guys.

**Crazyterran**

ductvader wrote:
MajorWesJanson wrote:
SickSix wrote:
Personally I thought the DP and LR capacity only made since to be 12. Seems silly to me that you cant take 5 termies and an HQ in a Land Raider.

It would be nice, and I am going to miss the ability to run a full 10 man sternguard squad (that can combat squad) plus Kantor in a drop pod, but it was kind of stupid to give them 12 model capacity when the brand new drop pod model comes with 10 seats.

There's enough space on the ceiling for two more guys.

Psh, the characters ride on the outside, bare chested, laughing off the effects of atmospheric reentry as their sheer manliness defies the laws of the universe to bring them crashing down upon their foes.

**Anpu42**

Crazyterran wrote:
ductvader wrote:
MajorWesJanson wrote:
SickSix wrote:
Personally I thought the DP and LR capacity only made since to be 12. Seems silly to me that you cant take 5 termies and an HQ in a Land Raider.

It would be nice, and I am going to miss the ability to run a full 10 man sternguard squad (that can combat squad) plus Kantor in a drop pod, but it was kind of stupid to give them 12 model capacity when the brand new drop pod model comes with 10 seats.

There's enough space on the ceiling for two more guys.

Psh, the characters ride on the outside, bare chested, laughing off the effects of atmospheric reentry as their sheer manliness defies the laws of the universe to bring them crashing down upon their foes.

I thought that was only Space Wolves?

**ductvader**

Crazyterran wrote:
ductvader wrote:
MajorWesJanson wrote:
SickSix wrote:
Personally I thought the DP and LR capacity only made since to be 12. Seems silly to me that you cant take 5 termies and an HQ in a Land Raider.

It would be nice, and I am going to miss the ability to run a full 10 man sternguard squad (that can combat squad) plus Kantor in a drop pod, but it was kind of stupid to give them 12 model capacity when the brand new drop pod model comes with 10 seats.

There's enough space on the ceiling for two more guys.

Psh, the characters ride on the outside, bare chested, laughing off the effects of atmospheric reentry as their sheer manliness defies the laws of the universe to bring them crashing down upon their foes.

SW all the way

Automatically Appended Next Post:
NINJA'D!

**Crazyterran**

Anpu42 wrote:
Crazyterran wrote:
ductvader wrote:
MajorWesJanson wrote:
SickSix wrote:
Personally I thought the DP and LR capacity only made since to be 12. Seems silly to me that you cant take 5 termies and an HQ in a Land Raider.

It would be nice, and I am going to miss the ability to run a full 10 man sternguard squad (that can combat squad) plus Kantor in a drop pod, but it was kind of stupid to give them 12 model capacity when the brand new drop pod model comes with 10 seats.

There's enough space on the ceiling for two more guys.

Psh, the characters ride on the outside, bare chested, laughing off the effects of atmospheric reentry as their sheer manliness defies the laws of the universe to bring them crashing down upon their foes.

I thought that was only Space Wolves?

Codex Marines did it as well, but the Space Wolves do it in such a manner that all of them, through sheer manliness, just take a grip onto the Drop Pod and ride it all the way down. Opening the Drop Pod and going inside it are for cowards, and cuts precious seconds off getting into combat with their foes.

After all, Their manly beards, wolf pelts, and faith in the Allfather allows them all to make it through any pathetic thing the universe can throw at them.

**ClockworkZion**

Crazyterran wrote:
ductvader wrote:
MajorWesJanson wrote:
SickSix wrote:
Personally I thought the DP and LR capacity only made since to be 12. Seems silly to me that you cant take 5 termies and an HQ in a Land Raider.

It would be nice, and I am going to miss the ability to run a full 10 man sternguard squad (that can combat squad) plus Kantor in a drop pod, but it was kind of stupid to give them 12 model capacity when the brand new drop pod model comes with 10 seats.

There's enough space on the ceiling for two more guys.

Psh, the characters ride on the outside, bare chested, laughing off the effects of atmospheric reentry as their sheer manliness defies the laws of the universe to bring them crashing down upon their foes.

Sounds like Orks.

**porkuslime**

I saw the rumored rules for Tigurus ealier in the thread.

Any idea if he stat line changes from the last codex or is the same?

What about da man's wargear?

(asking for a friend contemplating UM)

-P

**Citizen Luka**

Crazyterran wrote:
Anpu42 wrote:
Crazyterran wrote:
ductvader wrote:
MajorWesJanson wrote:
SickSix wrote:
Personally I thought the DP and LR capacity only made since to be 12. Seems silly to me that you cant take 5 termies and an HQ in a Land Raider.

It would be nice, and I am going to miss the ability to run a full 10 man sternguard squad (that can combat squad) plus Kantor in a drop pod, but it was kind of stupid to give them 12 model capacity when the brand new drop pod model comes with 10 seats.

There's enough space on the ceiling for two more guys.

Psh, the characters ride on the outside, bare chested, laughing off the effects of atmospheric reentry as their sheer manliness defies the laws of the universe to bring them crashing down upon their foes.

I thought that was only Space Wolves?

Codex Marines did it as well, but the Space Wolves do it in such a manner that all of them, through sheer manliness, just take a grip onto the Drop Pod and ride it all the way down. Opening the Drop Pod and going inside it are for cowards, and cuts precious seconds off getting into combat with their foes.

After all, Their manly beards, wolf pelts, and faith in the Allfather allows them all to make it through any pathetic thing the universe can throw at them.

I recall someone commenting that the reason SW only have room for 10 in the pod is so they still have space for beer.