Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added]

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**Maelstrom808**

ClockworkZion wrote:
Maelstrom808 wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
Kangodo wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
Would it be reasonable, at some point I mean, to go back to discussing rumors instead of trying to compare codexes to each other?
I mean, I get that these are apparently very interesting discussions, but what the IG, BA, DA, CSM and Necrons have in their codexes has very little, if any, bearing on what the C:SM are getting, now do they?
People are talking about the strength of these new units and of the changed units.
So comparing them with other codices is only natural, it should be expected.
Or do you want us to go back to the 20 pages of "centurions are ugly" and people asking 25 times what Grav-weapons do?

It'd be better than the crying that X is so much better than Y for another 30 pages....again.

There is a lot of information but it seems to keep boiling back down to "That unit is so much better than this unit in my army! That's so unfair!". It's almost as if people can't see past the initial shock of what the codex is bringing and that 5th Edition books are designed around a different design philosophy than 6th.

Welcome to 40k rumor posts.

Oh I've been here a while. Doesn't mean I can't go "REALLY"? every once in a while.

Yeah, I know. People are going to freak out no matter what. Then once things actually come out and have had time to circulate for awhile, 75% of what people were freaking out over turns out to be fine. It's the same pattern every time.

**General Hobbs**

d-usa wrote:
Raven Guard fluff is quite different than the "jump pack heavy in-your-face black armored Blood Angels" that we sometimes see.

They rely on scouts quite a bit. They don't field huge scout armies, they do have recruitment problems per fluff. But they do rely on scouts and use them to inflitrate and call in precision strikes.

They are in fact a Codex chapter, and use all the 6/2/2 force org in each appropriate company. Scouts will be able to call in the appropriate forces needed draving from all tactical options that best fit the situation.

Jump Packs are one of their things, but it's not the "overwhelming angels of death raining from the sky" thing. It's a precision guerilla small unit "get in and get out" kind of attack.

Vanguard vets look like they give us an option for a proper "Shrike Wing".

The new codex looks like it gives us a lot of options for a proper fluffy Raven Guard army. Raven Guard fluff does not make them black armored Blood Angels though.

Edit: saw your post above and will try to reply to some of your concerns in a minute.

Going back to the old IA article, RG used scouts to scout out enemy positions, then used drop pods and thunderhawks to come in and strike quickly. The appropriate rules for RG would have been Stealth and reroll drop pod deepstriking. ( loved those old rules, so much fun).

I actually think the SW codex is best for representing RG. Grey Hunters are better at drop podding than BA, you can do a wing with wolf guard, the scouts operate the way I envision RG scouts operating, deep in cover, sabotaging the enemy from behind...There's even stories of mutated RG initiates which could count as Wulfen.

So let me get this right, once and for all.

If you take IF chapter traits, the only SC you can take are IF ones.

But you can ally with other Marine armies??? How does that work? If I take UM allies, I can then take Telion etc?

**Melcavuk**

You would assume so in the same way if you take Tau allies you can take farsight

**Godless-Mimicry**

General Hobbs wrote:
But you can ally with other Marine armies??? How does that work? If I take UM allies, I can then take Telion etc?

I imagine for the purposes of allying different Chapters together you would essentially count them as different codices that are Battle Brothers, and then if allying any Chapter with another army completely you just consult Space Marines on the allies matrix (with the exception of Black Templars of course).

**plastictrees**

ClockworkZion wrote:

Oh I've been here a while. Doesn't mean I can't go "REALLY"? every once in a while.

As long as the "REALLY?" is said sardonically with an exasperated sigh you're good. "REALLY?"s of genuine surprise will not be tolerated.

**ClockworkZion**

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Do we have any rumors about what the 6 relics do? The relic Storm Shield sounds intriguing; what's better than a 3++? Part of me hopes it's Eternal Warrior so that the legacy of the Adamantine Mantle Marshal can live on. That could also explain why they felt they had to change Lysander a bit.

Disclaimer: The above is purely my own speculation, which ought to be obvious. If you repost this as a "rumour you heard", angry gremlins will devour you in your sleep.

40k Radio hasn't spilled the beans yet on those. They're saving them for a show on the 1st apparently.

**Lobokai**

Have we had a peak at Calgar's special rules yet (like pass/fail morale checks) or should I assume something like that is going to be a warlord trait.

**ClockworkZion**

Lobukia wrote:
Have we had a peak at Calgar's special rules yet (like pass/fail morale checks) or should I assume something like that is going to be a warlord trait.

He now rolls 3 warlord traits, (and looks like he gets all 3 to boot), and his Terminator armor doesn't prevent him from Sweeping Advances.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

plastictrees wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:

Oh I've been here a while. Doesn't mean I can't go "REALLY"? every once in a while.

As long as the "REALLY?" is said sardonically with an exasperated sigh you're good. "REALLY?"s of genuine surprise will not be tolerated.

It's usually paired with my hands being thrown in the air and me following up with "We're doing this AGAIN?"

Which does that count as?

**tomjoad**

So, there's been no mention of a Space Marine psychic discipline yet. I've read that SM libbys will keep the same options from the main rule book, but will Null Zone live on in a specific SM discipline? or will this be the first new book without any new psychic powers (this seems unlikely)?

**Ferrum_Sanguinis**

tomjoad wrote:
So, there's been no mention of a Space Marine psychic discipline yet. I've read that SM libbys will keep the same options from the main rule book, but will Null Zone live on in a specific SM discipline? or will this be the first new book without any new psychic powers (this seems unlikely)?

According to the leaks, there are no specific SM powers, the just chose the ones from the rulebook.

**ClockworkZion**

tomjoad wrote:
So, there's been no mention of a Space Marine psychic discipline yet. I've read that SM libbys will keep the same options from the main rule book, but will Null Zone live on in a specific SM discipline? or will this be the first new book without any new psychic powers (this seems unlikely)?

They lose the Codex Powers but keep the same rulebook powers.

**tomjoad**

I'll just be a doubting Thomas on this one, then.

**Godless-Mimicry**

tomjoad wrote:
So, there's been no mention of a Space Marine psychic discipline yet. I've read that SM libbys will keep the same options from the main rule book, but will Null Zone live on in a specific SM discipline? or will this be the first new book without any new psychic powers (this seems unlikely)?

Of course it won't be the first book with no new Psychic powers, both Tau and Dark Angels beat them to it.

**tomjoad**

Tau doesn't count and, technically, "power" can't be pluralized for DA, but who even remembers that thing even came out any more? Either way, I was right.

**Lansirill**

tomjoad wrote:
Tau doesn't count and, technically, "power" can't be pluralized for DA, but who even remembers that thing even came out any more? Either way, I was right.

Well, no, technically you would be wrong, which is the very worst kind of wrong.

**tomjoad**

Pedantry is always wrong. I am right by default.

**Ferrum_Sanguinis**

tomjoad wrote:
Tau doesn't count and, technically, "power" can't be pluralized for DA, but who even remembers that thing even came out any more? Either way, I was right.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
As a BA player, I'm very excited about the pricing for Honor Guard. 25pts for 2+ armor and a power weapon? Hopefully that means that Sanguinary Guard (who stats wise are basically honor guard with jumppacks) will be either cheaper or have better weapons...

**Super Ready**

Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
As a BA player, I'm very excited about the pricing for Honor Guard. 25pts for 2+ armor and a power weapon? Hopefully that means that Sanguinary Guard (who stats wise are basically honor guard with jumppacks) will be either cheaper or have better weapons...

I don't know about that, but I *DO* hope it's a good precedent for our own Honour Guard getting a 2+ save, *FINALLY* (even though we didn't in 5th). It's not like we have centuries longer to perfect our armour, or anything.

**Ferrum_Sanguinis**

Super Ready wrote:
Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
As a BA player, I'm very excited about the pricing for Honor Guard. 25pts for 2+ armor and a power weapon? Hopefully that means that Sanguinary Guard (who stats wise are basically honor guard with jumppacks) will be either cheaper or have better weapons...

I don't know about that, but I *DO* hope it's a good precedent for our own Honour Guard getting a 2+ save, *FINALLY* (even though we didn't in 5th). It's not like we have centuries longer to perfect our armour, or anything.

Why? Our Honour Guard are basically just the Vanilla Marines' Command Squad, we have the same options and everything. The closet thing we have to the Vanilla Honor Guard is the Sanguinary guard.

**Leth**

I am glad that codex space marines can ally with itself as long as you take a different chapters tactics.

Makes it easier to take some other things in slots being that you basically have 4 of them. (So for example I can take my three squads of sternguard and say a squad of vanguard)

Allows you to specialize your specific troups(so take squads of scouts from raven guard and tacticals from imperial fists).

Things like that. Now it might not appeal to everyone but seeing as how I play a deathwatch chapter that is about as close to squad based tactics as I am gonna get.

Also for once I am glad my birthday is when it is. Space Majeens AHOY

**dracpanzer**

Leth wrote:
I am glad that codex space marines can ally with itself as long as you take a different chapters tactics.

I still have questions about what Shrike actually allows for RG, but this has certainly changed "some" of my thinking about a RG list. Shrike with a Vanguard squad and a RG scout squad alongside IF or UM stern/tacticals will help. Though the book keeping will make me sad.

**Quark**

Maelstrom808 wrote:
Yeah, I know. People are going to freak out no matter what. Then once things actually come out and have had time to circulate for awhile, 75% of what people were freaking out over turns out to be fine. It's the same pattern every time.

Howling Banshees best achievement: being in the 25%!

I am a bit worried about Tigurius being so insane, but I'll see when I can read the complete entry myself.

**Nocturnus**

Dracos wrote:
Delicious QQ over Tactical squads here... For too long they have been an easy pass and easily identified weak-point.

The tears are/will be delicious.

Best post yet!

**Saythings**

Quark wrote:
Maelstrom808 wrote:
Yeah, I know. People are going to freak out no matter what. Then once things actually come out and have had time to circulate for awhile, 75% of what people were freaking out over turns out to be fine. It's the same pattern every time.

Howling Banshees best achievement: being in the 25%!

I am a bit worried about Tigurius being so insane, but I'll see when I can read the complete entry myself.

I'm thinking Tigurius is going to be ridiculous. 3 powers, any discipline, reroll to powers, reroll to reserves (I think). Oh, and BTs (so far) have no restrictions for allied Pskyers... looks at Tigurius...

I hope my brothers don't read this or I'll get a flogging for mentioning an allied witch.

**d-usa**

So all you really need to play whatever you want is magnetized shoulderpads and you can play with the best traits and ally with the other best chapter based on who you are playing!

Start out by painting all your Space Marines Green and magenize the shoulder pads for all the different chapters.Then just put the appropriate shoulder pad on the model for the game you are playing today!

The most obvious one is of course the Salamanders:

For Ultramarines just go with the Aurora Chapter:

Raven Guard? Play Dark Eagles:

Imperial Fists? Put on the Invaders shoulder pads:

White Scars? Go Mantis Warriors:

Problem solved!

**ph34r**

Nocturnus wrote:
Dracos wrote:
Delicious QQ over Tactical squads here... For too long they have been an easy pass and easily identified weak-point.

The tears are/will be delicious.

Best post yet!

My favorite part is how he thinks Tactical squads were bad

He might have more luck picking up Grey Knights, Necrons, or Yu-Gi-Oh :^)

**xruslanx**

tactical squads are bad as they are though. Too expensive, no survivability and lacklustre firepower. Now we know that two of these have been addressed, or even all three if you're an iron hands player.

**MajorWesJanson**

Sigvatr wrote:
You can take 3 Rhinos at the cost of 1 Nightscythe. I'll just leave this here. Oh, you can also take a Ghost Bark for 115 pts. Now that's a steal!

Night Scythe is far faster than a rhino, and can move much faster than 6" and deploy troops. If it explodes/wrecked, the troops inside aren't harmed at all, just go into reserves. And a rhino does not have a twin-linked weapon that is rather effective at killing fliers/light vehicles.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Do we have any rumors about what the 6 relics do? The relic Storm Shield sounds intriguing; what's better than a 3++? Part of me hopes it's Eternal Warrior so that the legacy of the Adamantine Mantle Marshal can live on. That could also explain why they felt they had to change Lysander a bit.

Disclaimer: The above is purely my own speculation, which ought to be obvious. If you repost this as a "rumour you heard", angry gremlins will devour you in your sleep.

The relic banner is probably the relic that grants a 6+ inv save. Storm Shield could be either Eternal Warrior, or it could be like the Space Wolf guy and grant you an extra attack in CC.

**ClockworkZion**

MajorWesJanson wrote:
AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Do we have any rumors about what the 6 relics do? The relic Storm Shield sounds intriguing; what's better than a 3++? Part of me hopes it's Eternal Warrior so that the legacy of the Adamantine Mantle Marshal can live on. That could also explain why they felt they had to change Lysander a bit.

Disclaimer: The above is purely my own speculation, which ought to be obvious. If you repost this as a "rumour you heard", angry gremlins will devour you in your sleep.

The relic banner is probably the relic that grants a 6+ inv save. Storm Shield could be either Eternal Warrior, or it could be like the Space Wolf guy and grant you an extra attack in CC.

Who knows, maybe you can throw the shield too, like that one guy does his hammer!

That'd be 2 Avengers down!

**Godless-Mimicry**

ClockworkZion wrote:
MajorWesJanson wrote:
AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Do we have any rumors about what the 6 relics do? The relic Storm Shield sounds intriguing; what's better than a 3++? Part of me hopes it's Eternal Warrior so that the legacy of the Adamantine Mantle Marshal can live on. That could also explain why they felt they had to change Lysander a bit.

Disclaimer: The above is purely my own speculation, which ought to be obvious. If you repost this as a "rumour you heard", angry gremlins will devour you in your sleep.

The relic banner is probably the relic that grants a 6+ inv save. Storm Shield could be either Eternal Warrior, or it could be like the Space Wolf guy and grant you an extra attack in CC.

Who knows, maybe you can throw the shield too, like that one guy does his hammer!

That'd be 2 Avengers down!

3 by my count; IIRC there's a special character in the Necron book that Hulks out.