Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added]

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**Lobokai**

If the IF Bolter Drill lets special ammo reroll on sternguards, it might make it as good/better than the UM ability

**Lobokai**

Wait, if its listing bolter weapons, why would special ammo in a listed weapon not gain the reroll?

**Lobokai**

I'm going bet that a Captain on a Bike unlocks all 5 man bike squads. Pretty sure who ever had the dex posted "a 5 man squad" meaning at least 5 not 3 man (just like it is now). We've read into it "just a 5 man squad".

Poopoo it. The only thing that bothers me is that "I told you so" doesn't satisfy as much a month later.

**Lobokai**

Weird... double post that didn't amend. Well might as well use the space. Can HQ ICs all still take bikes?

**Lobokai**

ClockworkZion wrote:
Lobukia wrote:
I'm going bet that a Captain on a Bike unlocks all 5 man bike squads. Pretty sure who ever had the dex posted "a 5 man squad" meaning at least 5 not 3 man (just like it is now). We've read into it "just a 5 man squad".

Poopoo it. The only thing that bothers me is that "I told you so" doesn't satisfy as much a month later.

40k Radio has been posting this stuff on their Facebook. They later mentioned (when asked) that the bike squads as troops are 3-5 man squads, and one of them can be upgraded to an Attack Bike.

So they're seeing a possible 6 bike squads as troops? I don't have Facebook, can't check.

**Lobokai**

Lockark wrote:
Ugh... Why did they beat bike heavy sm armies silly with a nerf bat? I always found them fun to play agiest. O_o

They also seemed kinda rare in all honesty. I just don't get why they would do that even as a non sm player.

If they did... to sell the White Scar supplement, of course

**Lobokai**

ClockworkZion wrote:
dracpanzer wrote:
No word yet on whether or not Dreads are still going to get "Inspiring Presence"

I asked about that and he said no, it doesn't exist. Same for the rhino variants too. Apparently creative wishlisting or dropped ideas from playtesting.

...or saved after playtesting for a supplement

**Lobokai**

MajorWesJanson wrote:
Exergy wrote:
MajorWesJanson wrote:
Exergy wrote:
tvih wrote:
spamthulhu wrote:
If the box comes with enough combi's to arm the whole unit with each of the combi's then I am good and will be on board to buy 4 boxes.

All the reports point to there being 2 of each combi-weapon in the kit.

that is what I was going to guess. There are now 4 different combi weapons + regular bolters meaning 5 options. If there was 5 of each, that would be 25 boltguns.
one of each would also be kind of silly. 2 of each is 10 boltguns and sounds reasonable.

I;m not really following your math. From the sounds/looks of it, we get 5 bolters, 2 of each combi-weapon (flamer, melta, plasma, grav), a heavy flamer, a heavy bolter, and 1+ plasma pistols. Likely there are a few other weapons in there like another plasma pistol, some bolt and grav pistols, and at least one scabbarded power sword so potentially a power weapon or two.

I am assuming 2 regular bolters and 2 of each combi weapons(of which there are 4). That is 2+8= 10 bolters. 1HF, 1HB, 1-2 plasma pistols and sure a combat weapon or two. I dont think there are going to be 5 regular bolters and 5 of each combi bolters, as that would be 5 + 20 = 25

I'm not assuming 5 of each combi-weapon, but that there will be 2 of each combi-weapon (we see 2 different designs for combi-grav guns on sternguard models) and 5 normal bolters, for a total of 13 guns, plus pistols, heavy weapons, ect.

No way they are going to put 5 of each combi-weapon in the box, but I expect at least 5 normal bolters so you can arm them normally.

Pretty sure the top pic is a Grav gun and the bottom is a combi-grav. So that's one of each special and one of each combi

**Lobokai**

Am I missing the grav weapon's interaction with AVs on vehicles? Help guys, I'm just not seeing it, but I assume its in the rumor feed somewhere.

**Lobokai**

Sigvatr wrote:
SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
Sigvatr wrote:
Hooooooooold on for a second - is it true that a new Tac Marine will now cost 1 point more than a Necron Warrior despite having ATSKNF, 3+, better weapons, Combat Tactics, Sergeants, Doctrines etc.?

oh my gosh! the thought of a unit costing more because it has better options?

Didn't know ATSKNF, Combat Tactics, 3+ and Sergeants are options.

GW really sticks to the plan to make new stuff or re-releases badly balanced on purpose, eh.

Wait... a necron player who thinks his Warriors are worse than Tacticals

What?! How? Every weapon you have can glance any vehicle, you have arguably the best transport in the game (Wave Serpent might get you), and you stand back up! Also, your unit isn't way worse if its understrength and you can run an IC in your transport without nerfing your entire squad... which can have 5 more models than a tactical squad and still be in your death-proof flying drop pod with awesome weapons. Go away silly person! Your glass isn't half empty, its three quarters full. Good lord, the BA/Necron/SW tears are making hypocrites and whiners out of so many players who still have it better than SM players for basically all of 5th editon, and if they wipe their eyes, they're still only a model or two per 1k points off the SM pace IF the rumors are all correct.

**Lobokai**

Sigvatr wrote:
Lobukia wrote:

Wait... a necron player who thinks his Warriors are worse than Tacticals What?! How? Every weapon you have can glance any vehicle, you have arguably the best transport in the game (Wave Serpent might get you), and you stand back up! Also, your unit isn't way worse if its understrength and you can run an IC in your transport without nerfing your entire squad... which can have 5 more models than a tactical squad and still be in your death-proof flying drop pod with awesome weapons. Go away silly person! Your glass isn't half empty, its three quarters full. Good lord, the BA/Necron/SW tears are making hypocrites and whiners out of so many players who still have it better than SM players for basically all of 5th editon, and if they wipe their eyes, they're still only a model or two per 1k points off the SM pace IF the rumors are all correct.

I'm comparing individual units here. If you want to argue that Necron Warriors should be more expensive than TAC because of Nightscythes, you'd automatically say that every player should always play the most OP lists out there to get a balanced army.

No, I'm just not looking at things in a vacuum. You have strongly implied/said that tacticals are better than they should be compared to warriors... you even listed optional weapons (additions to the unit)... but ignored the mountain of advantages and awesome options your warriors have. If you're choosing to not take options that make your units better, well I'm not sure why you're pointing the finger at GW then. Last I checked, units have to be taken with the rest of their codex. You have some of the best codex synergy in the game with your warriors... if you ignore all the ups of a unit, yeah it sucks then.

**Lobokai**

Have we had a peak at Calgar's special rules yet (like pass/fail morale checks) or should I assume something like that is going to be a warlord trait.

**Lobokai**

@Clockwork.... thanks for being the ambassador for the 40k Radio Q&A!

Any hints on what the Warlord Traits are?

**Lobokai**

Kingsley wrote:
My one big hope for this release is that you can take Ultramarines characters in other Chapters. My Marines are Iron Hands successors in models (and fluff), but I decided they were more Codex-compliant than their parent Chapter and used Codex: Space Marines instead of Codex: Space Wolves for them in 5th edition.

As a result, I have converted models for Tigurius, Cassius, Sicarius, and Telion and have parts on the way for Marneus Calgar too. If it comes down to a choice between Iron Hands Chapter Tactics and Ultramarines characters, I'm not sure which one I will pick-- so I'm hoping I'll be able to have both!

Sounds like you can't. It seems that Special Characters will be locked into like Doctrine/Chapter only. But, it looks like you can ally two different Chapter together. Guess we'll have to wait and see for sure.

**Lobokai**

ClockworkZion wrote:
I promised a nice big rollup of all the rumors, and here they are:
http://www.talkwargaming.com/2013/08/codex-space-marines-rumor-roll-up-part.html

Awesome, thanks

**Lobokai**

Mr.Church13 wrote:
If tigirius gets all that crap, I'm picking my powers from now on. The Wardian cinematics in 6th are already terrible and Eldar and tzeench get nothing compared to this spank-fest of a character.

Well good, I'll take blade storm, since its not fair that marines don't get that

**Lobokai**

Man, getting so much so early has me feeling really impatient sooner than usuall. I hope some more pics leak soon.

**Lobokai**

creeping-deth87 wrote:
I don't want to sift through 124 pages of thread, but I have to ask: did Templars get rolled into this codex?

you could have at least read the first post (the title told you to look there)

**Lobokai**

mwnciboo wrote:
Does it really Matter...Ultra's are Ultramarine because frankly they are probably the best Tactical Chapter out there. They are the living embodiement of Humanity's Noble aspect - You don't like it play something else.

I'm pretty direct and forthright, I like the Iron Hand's no nonsense, economy of effort and unbending will.

Other people I know like the Feral nature of the wolves, still others the dark and broody DA's, others like the Fanatical Hatred of the BT's. Some read things like Twilight and they like BA's .

The Ultra's are special because frankly they aren't special - They aren't Wolves, Vampires, Cyborgs or anything else. They are Romani Space Marines, they believe they are unsullied and have a pure Geneseed - So is it any surprise they need something to show they are reasonable at everything and maybe very good at shooting? They gave birth to like 80% of Chapters their influence is vast, they are like it or not, the definitive archetypal Marines. In much the same way that the SAS is the Archetypal, benchmark Special Forces Unit. They are the one everyone else try's to emulate or better and venerated as the pinnacle of their craft.

+1 Exalted. You accurately embodied why I like my Ultras so much. I own painted SW, CF, and full armies of CF and Ravenwing. But my heart always returns to SM (which have been a labor of love to use since BA and SW came out).

It blows my mind after the Necrons, Eldar, and Tau got all of their boosts at really no cost, that people are whining as to the OP of tacticals hitting 1 more time per almost 6 rolls (never mind still needing to wound). It's nice, but it doesn't stop SMS, Baledrakes, Bladestorm, or Barrage weapons and marker lights any better than before.

**Lobokai**

I'm hoping devastators can take heavy flamers. How awesome would a drop pod of those be for Salamanders! Never understood why they didn't have that option any way.

**Lobokai**

Nosebiter wrote:
Jeez, talk about limiting what SC's you can take. So if i want Kantor i HAVE to use crimson fists? Not even imperial fists? And diy chapters get nada SC's?

EDIT: Nevermind... makes sense though, I'm fine with it (I use both CF and IF).

**Lobokai**

ph34r wrote:
Carnage43 wrote:
xruslanx wrote:
there's no way that the new codex will explicitly state that you need the right colour and insignia in order to take special charecters. That would be catastrophically stupid.

Exactly. You have to have the correct chapter tactic to use the character. So you could do CT Ultramarines, painted as the sons of medusa, and use Tigurius.....but you couldn't use Vulkan.
That seems most likely, or at least the way it will be played. The successors foot note may be for specifically Crimson Fists being unable to take Imperial Fists characters.

...and BT. For all UM whine in these threads, the IF get themselves and two successors fleshed out, and in detail.

**Lobokai**

Are centurions S&P. If so, won't they always get the 5 shots with the GravCannon? Unless I'm missing something, why would they have the salvo rule?

**Lobokai**

Anpu42 wrote:
Lobukia wrote:
Are centurions S&P. If so, won't they always get the 5 shots with the GravCannon? Unless I'm missing something, why would they have the salvo rule?

In case some other model gets them in the future.

I'm hoping MotF does.

**Lobokai**

Anpu42 wrote:
Davor wrote:
Are the FotM and WAAC players complaining crying already? At least wait till the codex comes out first guys.

I can't have Tirgrus and Vulkan together. WAAAAAAA

Hey wait a minute, why not play Chaos or other armies, and then you will see how have it you have.

I guess, it's true, SM players need the easy button. (Ok not all SM players but the way some people are going on, it sure seems like it.)

Actually the though of the Master of the Forge getting a Grav-Cannon would be cool just for the Cool Factor more than WAAC.
Yes there are those who will just put him on a Bike, but I would also love to see the expersion on that so called WAAC Player when ho looks across the board at the Ork/Grot Tee-Shirt Army.

Considering what your UM tacticals would do to that list, its a trade I'll take. I'd really like to run 6 centurions and the MotF all Grav'd out. I don't think it's the best WAAC way to go, but it would look pretty sweet.

**Lobokai**

Yodhrin wrote:

I hope you enjoyed your ride on that high horse mate, because even the Proper Righteous and Pure way of playing that you favour is humped - SCs are limited to their chapter of origin only. No successors, no counts-as - you want an SC? Get painting, 'cause you'll need a new army.

I hope there's some sarcasm involved here, because you have seriously misunderstood both the rules and the way army paints work in 40k

**Lobokai**

Exergy wrote:[BT are a Child Chapter of IF
Clearly BT cannot take Lysander

CF are a child chapter of IF
I think this is to address that Lysander and Pedro cannot be in the same army without allies.

I do not believe that Doom Eagles will be prevented from taking Calgar because there is no way to say that your Doom Eagles aren't ultramarines. If you are playing your homebrew successor chapter, it has no rules. You have to use the rules for some chapter that actually has rules like Ultramarines and thus you can take all the options Ultramarines have.

+1 This. Come on people. Really?!

Some of you think I have to play blue ultramarines to use SC but I can't play Iron Snakes and use Calgar?! What is wrong with DakkaDakka?!.

tomjoad wrote:...GW will not make such a rule and frankly, I'm disappointed in the critical thinking ability of anybody who thinks they would. It's embarrassing.

Agreed, on both accounts.

**Lobokai**

Here's how I see the CT making sense (and I am totally trying to justify this for them). UM have to have something extra special wonderful about them... but it can't make them specialized (that's not their thing, after all). So its efficiency. Guilliman and Calgar are the masters of organization, logistics, and planning (after all). How do you show drop pods that fire a second sooner, bolters that are brought up quicker, marine who move with an efficiency and precision unmatched by the "lesser"

chapters? You can't give them an extra turn (way too much), but you can reward them just a few extra shots here and there (reroll 1s and TL for tacticals). The efficient and deadly use of the tactical squads should be the hallmark of the UM. Think of it being more the Captain using his tactical marines better than using his veterans...not their aim being better/worse.

**Lobokai**

DufenDorgen wrote:
I own the space wolves codex, I like the space wolves codex and I plan on getting them as my next army (My last name is Wolfe so I have to) Not every marine player is the kind of player I'm talking about and I don't mean to accuse everyone of being guilty of this mentality. If your having trouble wining games I'd recommend playing space wolves as a mid ranged shooting army and use your usr defensively. Also don't sink all your points into thunder wolves, use grey hunters and long fangs. I switched to tyranids and won every game thus far without cheese. All that plasma means nothing against a horde of hormagaunts. And neither does a hell drakes torrent or any 10/2 blast. I'm punishing my group for not having well rounded lists. And when they feel like spamming flamers, I bring back the tau.

Dufen, you are so cool.

**Lobokai**

ClockworkZion wrote:
So it seems the major Q&As are likely gone until after 40k Radio does their show this weekend.

As I've said I'll be taking notes on it as soon as it goes online. I don't believe in bottlenecking information like this personally so I'll be putting up my notes online so people don't have to sit through the show just to find out what they haven't shared yet.

I get that they want people to listen to their show but when you're the soul source of information there are better ways to put this out there.

I'll definitely listen to the show (I recommend people do, 40k radio is one of the great gaming podcasts). Bit thanks in advance for making an archive if it all. Very helpful and very selfless.