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An Inquisition Codex with every faction receiving two whole pages of fluff? Whee.

May as well fold the Imperial Guard into the SM 'dex. That would be the equivalent of what we're talking about here.

Troike wrote:The models were proper looking back in the days of Blanache art and the other "weird" 2e art.

What other 2E art was weird? I take it you've seen the "collection" I posted? I can't see anything other than that one Blanche pic that I'd regard as "off".

 curran12 wrote:
For the most part, I don't understand the 'SoB have awful models' line. I -totally- understand that the Dialogus model is hideous, and the Repentia are kinda iffy, but the standard Battle Sister/Seraphim models? Those are rock solid, imo.

Yup, I really like the Battle Sisters and Seraphim. And the Canoness Don't know how much longer I can resist getting that SoB allied detachment. I'd probably get it right now but I want a 4x Heavy Bolter Retributor squad (what can I say, I'm a HB addict), but daaaamn that's expensive.

 Lynata wrote:
What other 2E art was weird? I take it you've seen the "collection" I posted? I can't see anything other than that one Blanche pic that I'd regard as "off".

I was thinking of a picture of a Sister with spiked boobplates shooting a Marine, but I've just realised that was from RT. Apologies.

Still strengthens my point though. The Sisters came out alongside art like that but still looked fine.

Love the art from 2e btw. Hope to see more like it in the future.

That 3rd edition art though. Wow. That's good stuff.

 Troike wrote:

Mr.Church13 wrote:
Ummmm. A well done unified inquisition codex. Soo much win is possible.

I'm very apprehensive of this. Would be very bloated, for one. You're combining two fully-fledged armies, units will likely become overshadowed by other choices or maybe even dropped entirely. Then there's the fluff, which will again be very bloated, several factions fighting for the spotlight and only getting portions of it each.

And hey, I'll admit to a personal bias here, I'd much rather a standalone Sisters/Ecclesiarchy book. Let them keep the spotlight to themselves.

 Skriker wrote:
The last real codex with SoBs in them was the Witchhunters Codex and not a straight Sisters of Battle codex either.

The WD codex is a real codex! While smaller it still has the validity of another fully-fledged codex.

Well, both armies already share the inquisition units. Using the 5th Ed marine codex as an example they are willing to make a thicker codex for armies. And with supplements you don't really have to worry much about units disappearing totally or the fluff being lost.

Mr.Church13 wrote:
]Well, both armies already share the inquisition units. Using the 5th Ed marine codex as an example they are willing to make a thicker codex for armies. And with supplements you don't really have to worry much about units disappearing totally or the fluff being lost.

Currently they only share Crusaders, Arco-Flagellant and Death Cult Assassins. No other Inquisition/GK units in the SoB codex. And while an SoB supplement might be okay, supplements seem to just be there to change how you play the army around a bit, not to bring in or preserve units. And they provide less fluff than a standalone codex. I'd prefer a stand-alone army still.

And looking at the latest information, Jervis saying all armies are intended to recieve updates and Phil Kelly expressing interest in working on the SoB, it seems fairly likely that this is what we'll eventually get.

 MWHistorian wrote:
That 3rd edition art though. Wow. That's good stuff.

Aye. Hope a new codex will provide equally great, if not better art.

Mr.Church13 wrote:

Well, both armies already share the inquisition units. Using the 5th Ed marine codex as an example they are willing to make a thicker codex for armies. And with supplements you don't really have to worry much about units disappearing totally or the fluff being lost.

Only one of those was an Inquisition unit really until 5th edition changed it all up. Crusaders were fraternities of elite bodyguards for people amongst the Inquisition. Now they are a creation of the Cardinals Crimson and a violation of the Decree Passive. Arco-flagellants were a creation of the Ecclesiarchy and the Death Cultists were from fringe cults of the Emperor. Its a little disconcerting really, from a fluff perspective really, but such is the nature of the game we play.

 Troike wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
And who should write the codex?

A good question!

I see three decent choices: Ward (don't shoot, I promise I have reasons!) Vetock and Kelly.

Ward doing it would certainly just about gurantee us a competetive army with badass fluff. He did write the fluff in the WD codex, which was actually pretty good. Though there is the risk he'll go oveboard and give the Sisters OP rules and over the top fluff. Overall I'd be willing to give him a chance.

Vetock was seen as a favourable choice by others, and I can see why. He's got a pretty solid history. Seems like he'd give us a solid codex. Though we've seen no evidence that he's particularly interested or cares about the Sisters though, so I wouldn't quite want him on that basis.

Lastly, Kelly also seems a good choice. He said that Sisters are a book that he was interested in doing at some point, so the enthusiasm for the army is there. His last two codexes, Daemons and Eldar, seemed to be more or less well recieved. Don't know of any reasons why he wouldn't make a good SoB codex.

But anyway, the current evidence of Kelly expressing interest would suggest that he'll be the one to do it. But I suppose it's too much to early to say. All I know is that I hope to Big E that it's not The Cruddance.

Ward?Doesn't he kill,mutilate,taint them with chaos every chance he gets?

Da krimson barun wrote:
Ward?Doesn't he kill,mutilate,taint them with chaos every chance he gets?

Just the Bloodtide. While quite heinous, it's the only time that he has, IIRC. The WD 'dex shows that he can also write them decently, bar the Praxedes thing, perhaps.

You've been on 1d4chan, I take it?

 Troike wrote:

Da krimson barun wrote:
Ward?Doesn't he kill,mutilate,taint them with chaos every chance he gets?

Just the Bloodtide. While quite heinous, it's the only time that he has, IIRC. The WD 'dex shows that he can also write them decently, bar the Praxedes thing, perhaps.

You've been on 1d4chan, I take it?

Maybe....

MWHistorian wrote:That 3rd edition art though. Wow. That's good stuff.

Yesss.

Troike wrote:Just the Bloodtide. While quite heinous, it's the only time that he has, IIRC.

I still don't mind the Bloodtide. It actually suggests the Sisters to be less corruptible than the GKs, which is quite a feat.
That they get killed for it ... meh, it's the Imperium/Inquisition/40k. Grimdark yadah yadah etc. It fits to the GK's modus operandi, and the Sisters would have done the same were it the other way around. Who knows how many of the Marine Chapters they have purged have been condemned merely because they're too rational or honourable for the IoM's purpose.

Also, hah @ 1d4chan

Well I really like the models, personally ,but im not a modeller type.

 Troike wrote:

Solis Luna Astrum wrote:
The really funny thing about the faith vs magic argument is that we all know if they do get a 6th ed update the Acts of Faith will turn into a psychic power. Can you say "Sisterhood of Psykers" anyone?

Nahhh. Sisters aren't the biggest fans of psykers, so it'd be dumb to make them an implicitly all-psyker army.

A defining feature of the Acts of Faith is that they are not a psychic phenomena created by psykers. Anti-psyker measures have never been effective against the Sisters. Were it a psychic/magic thing, then anti-warp measures would shut them down.

I stand corrected. They're not Psykers, they just pray (concentrate) real hard and things happen. BTW, hard to say the Sisters aren't fans of psykers whey they 'pray' to the greatest psyker of all! Maybe they aren't psykers but their Acts of Faith could be interpreted as psychic intervention by the Emperor. Much as a Librarian uses his powers to protect the Marines around him, the sisters prayers are heard by the Emperor and he uses his psychic powers to help them.

Just a minor retelling of the fluff, but hey, GW would never do that, right?

Solis Luna Astrum wrote:
BTW, hard to say the Sisters aren't fans of psykers whey they 'pray' to the greatest psyker of all!

Well, nobody said that the Imperial Creed was consistent.

Solis Luna Astrum wrote:
Maybe they aren't psykers but their Acts of Faith could be interpreted as psychic intervention by the Emperor. Much as a Librarian uses his powers to protect the Marines around him, the sisters prayers are heard by the Emperor and he uses his psychic powers to help them.

I used to have this view too, but then I saw the codex material (2e and 5e) saying that they were "seemingly miraculous", which would imply that they are not magical in nature. But hey, Celestine can very much be interpreted in this way.

On the subject of Acts of Faith and a possible psychic nature, there was this GW article for the Inquisitor RPG, which (for once) makes it abundantly clear how the studio thinks about it.

That being said, with 40k fluff being what it is, other sources went different ways - DoW Soulstorm and FFG's RPGs, for example, very obviously render them a sort of divine magic of a kind not shown to exist with any other faction even in those sources' other material.

Given how many fans have theorised them to be psychic powers in the past, I could easily see someone writing a novel or so get the same idea, and perhaps picture them to work with the same sort of denial as the Space Wolves' Rune Priests apply.
I don't really believe this to happen within GW Codex material, however, unless it were part of a major retcon. Given how the Sisterhood's depiction changed little to none over 5 Editions so far, I don't see why they should suddenly pull such an unprecedented move.

Troike wrote:But hey, Celestine can very much be interpreted in this way.

Celestine has caused me to think a lot about the question, too. I finally settled to regard her as a Warp Spirit akin to a mini-Slaanesh - just conjured from religiously motivated feelings rather than excess, and possessing the body of one of the faithful to "anchor" itself in reality.
I also considered the possibility that what we are given to read is nothing but propaganda, though, or at the very least a heavily exaggerated account. Hyperbole seems to be a tradition of 40k fluff, too, according to Marc Gascogne - who used this to explain the many contradictions between the various sources of background.

Look on the bright side guys.. The moment a competitor starts making good "nuns with guns" models GW will be motivated to do the whole.. "Quick get out the SoB models we've had designed for 5 years and write C&D letters... After all we invented the nuns with guns idea"

That army is already being planned, it's from Raging Heroes, and is going to follow the TGG model line. IIRC, the name of this army-line will be "Iron Empire" or something to that effect.

Eh, if the TGG line is any indication, GW will still have the monopoly on heavily armoured gothic sci-fi girls who actually look like an elite military force rather than oversexualised fanservice.

YMMV, I guess.

I wish Reaper would explore the sci-fi corner more. They do make some beautiful fantasy models.

 Psienesis wrote:
That army is already being planned, it's from Raging Heroes, and is going to follow the TGG model line. IIRC, the name of this army-line will be "Iron Empire" or something to that effect.

In all liklihood then the women will be in heels. I just checked and the first thing I see is an armored lady with heels.

Relapse wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
That army is already being planned, it's from Raging Heroes, and is going to follow the TGG model line. IIRC, the name of this army-line will be "Iron Empire" or something to that effect.

In all liklihood then the women will be in heels. I just checked and the first thing I see is an armored lady with heels.

Ug. I hate heels on models that are supposed to be practical combatants. Thinking of heels, GW has this weird thing I've noticed were female models with them tend to have higher initiative than the ones without them. What are they, Heels of Unnatural Quickness?

 Psienesis wrote:
That army is already being planned, it's from Raging Heroes, and is going to follow the TGG model line. IIRC, the name of this army-line will be "Iron Empire" or something to that effect.

So models about one step back from porn? Yeah, I'll pass.

ClockworkZion wrote:

Relapse wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
That army is already being planned, it's from Raging Heroes, and is going to follow the TGG model line. IIRC, the name of this army-line will be "Iron Empire" or something to that effect.

In all liklihood then the women will be in heels. I just checked and the first thing I see is an armored lady with heels.

Ug. I hate heels on models that are supposed to be practical combatants. Thinking of heels, GW has this weird thing I've noticed were female models with them tend to have higher initiative than the ones without them. What are they, Heels of Unnatural Quickness?

One must master the art of walking on heels to gain +1 to their initiative. After that they become solely a limiter and if taken off their initiative would become +2 but for balancing purposes they keep them on.

Ugh, the heels.

Get over it, fan artists. John Blanche put heels on everything. The man is obsessed! His Space Marines have high heels for crying out loud!

If John Blanche was given Creative Control over GW's miniature design team, it would be Heelhammer 40,000.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Ugh, the heels.

Get over it, fan artists. John Blanche put heels on everything. The man is obsessed! His Space Marines have high heels for crying out loud!

If John Blanche was given Creative Control over GW's miniature design team, it would be Heelhammer 40,000.

Power heels, with rending!

ClockworkZion wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Ugh, the heels.

Get over it, fan artists. John Blanche put heels on everything. The man is obsessed! His Space Marines have high heels for crying out loud!

If John Blanche was given Creative Control over GW's miniature design team, it would be Heelhammer 40,000.

Power heels, with rending!

Str 10, ap 1, instant death

It's a little known fact that the "two power weapons" in the Death Cult Assassin's profile actually refer to her heels. The objects in their hands merely serve balancing purposes and for climbing walls.

Hey, don't bash on heels. Those things hurt like hell

Seriously, ask any physicist.

 Troike wrote:

The WD codex is a real codex! While smaller it still has the validity of another fully-fledged codex.

Sorry didn't realize I needed to be so specific:

By saying real codex I meant: A fully realized and bound separate and full Sisters of Battle focused Codex book that is the same as other fully realized and bound codecies like those for Space Marines, Chaos Marines and so on.

I was not commenting on the validity of the White Dwarf rules just pointing out that the Sisters have not had their own real bound book codex devoted solely to them pretty much since the first codex they got ages past.

Skriker

 curran12 wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
That army is already being planned, it's from Raging Heroes, and is going to follow the TGG model line. IIRC, the name of this army-line will be "Iron Empire" or something to that effect.

So models about one step back from porn? Yeah, I'll pass.

That's the TGG line, in some characters (and, really, it's about 10 steps back from porn, this is fantasy/sci-fi art we're talking about here). The sci-fi knights line doesn't yet have any art for it, let alone pre-production casts, it's still 2+ years down the road.

 Psienesis wrote:

That's the TGG line, in some characters (and, really, it's about 10 steps back from porn, this is fantasy/sci-fi art we're talking about here). The sci-fi knights line doesn't yet have any art for it, let alone pre-production casts, it's still 2+ years down the road.

"This is fantasy/sci-fi" does not really excuse it from tasteless design, and Raging Heroes kinda has a good pattern of female model design. Most of their female models are either outfitted with massive tits/porn proportions, a fetishized outfit, a ridiculously showy pose or a combination of all of the above. Are there good models in there? Certainly. In fact, I'm curious to see the actual models for some of the TGG mechs as possible stand-ins for Penitent Engines. But more of them fall into the lowbrow end of the spectrum and do not fit my ideal for what I'd want Sisters of Battle to be.

Might I be proven wrong? Entirely possible. But if the past is the indicator of the future, I'm comfortable in saying I won't be.