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curran12 wrote:Are there good models in there? Certainly. In fact, I'm curious to see the actual models for some of the TGG mechs as possible stand-ins for Penitent Engines.

I was thinking Necromunda gangers or maybe Xenan Imperial Guard. There they would fit, given that they are fairly close to GW's images for these groups.

But yeah, I wouldn't really expect anything fitting for the SoB from that direction either. It's an entirely different style they've displayed in the past.

 Zande4 wrote:
Most people who beg for them to get an update are doing it because it's the "in" thing and have no desire to actually collect them.

lolwut

How is this the "in" thing?

 Lynata wrote:
On a sidenote, I dig the current design of the SoB. Don't anyone dare to change them.

I love the current design as well. The question is, wouldn't we both love plastic models more? The rumor was, sculpting draped cloth is a major challenge for getting plastic Sisters out. So if plastics do show up one day, I expect the wide sleeves to be gone.

 Manchu wrote:

 Zande4 wrote:
Most people who beg for them to get an update are doing it because it's the "in" thing and have no desire to actually collect them.

lolwut

How is this the "in" thing?

It is totally the in thing. Jump on the band wagon and complain but don't spend a single cent on Sisters figures because that might mean you really like them instead of fake liking them.

I already screwed up because I put in a decent order of Sisters stuff not too long ago. That just means that I can't be on the bandwagon and I have to actually play them now...

 curran12 wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
That army is already being planned, it's from Raging Heroes, and is going to follow the TGG model line. IIRC, the name of this army-line will be "Iron Empire" or something to that effect.

So models about one step back from porn? Yeah, I'll pass.

???

Take a look:




















Automatically Appended Next Post:

Flying Toaster wrote:
It is totally the in thing. Jump on the band wagon and complain but don't spend a single cent on Sisters figures because that might mean you really like them instead of fake liking them.

I assume you have some evidence for these claims?

Flying Toaster wrote:
It is totally the in thing. Jump on the band wagon and complain but don't spend a single cent on Sisters figures because that might mean you really like them instead of fake liking them.

I already screwed up because I put in a decent order of Sisters stuff not too long ago. That just means that I can't be on the bandwagon and I have to actually play them now...

Right, nobody who wants updated Sisters but doesn't collect them actually likes them. Clearly, their only appeal is being a bandwagon.

 Skriker wrote:

Sorry didn't realize I needed to be so specific:

By saying real codex I meant: A fully realized and bound separate and full Sisters of Battle focused Codex book that is the same as other fully realized and bound codecies like those for Space Marines, Chaos Marines and so on.

I was not commenting on the validity of the White Dwarf rules just pointing out that the Sisters have not had their own real bound book codex devoted solely to them pretty much since the first codex they got ages past.

Skriker

And yet, the decision was made to cut out all the Inquistion stuff and create a codex devoted fully to the Sisters. It's a good sign in itself.

 Manchu wrote:

 curran12 wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
That army is already being planned, it's from Raging Heroes, and is going to follow the TGG model line. IIRC, the name of this army-line will be "Iron Empire" or something to that effect.

So models about one step back from porn? Yeah, I'll pass.

???

Take a look:

*snip*

So a lot of IG proxy units with boob armor for some reason.

I agree they're better as DKoK alts than SOB alts -- and I'm not going to get sucked into a debate about boob plate -- but they're hardly one step back from porn.

 Psienesis wrote:
That's the TGG line, in some characters (and, really, it's about 10 steps back from porn, this is fantasy/sci-fi art we're talking about here). The sci-fi knights line doesn't yet have any art for it, let alone pre-production casts, it's still 2+ years down the road.

One thing the current SoB line succeeds at is not looking like an army full of sluts, whores and prostitutes.

Really hate the concept in war games of female minis showing off all their female assets as opposed to being set up like a real military force. Women in real world militaries don't go into combat situations (where allowed) with their shirt tied up under their chest showing off their stomachs and with the buttons undone to show off their breasts and wearing thongs and high heeled shoes. They go into combat in combat gear just like everyone else and that is what I want to see in miniatures.

It is kind of like Metroid where no one ever considered this figure in full spacesuit and helmet was anything but a guy until the end scene where Samus takes off the gear to show she is in fact female.

Skriker

You do realize that I'm not talking about using TGG as Sisters proxies, right? I mean, I have said that two, three times in this thread now, though I suppose it's possible that it's been overlooked.

What I'm talking about is the previously-announced Saint Knights (or whatever they called it) line that RH mentioned would be released *after* the TGG line is complete and then *after* the rest of the Iron Empires line is released. We're talking about a set of miniatures that have not yet even been sketched yet, but the studio has made some references to that suggest it's not intended or planned to be as "cheesecake" as the TGG line.

 Manchu wrote:


Snip.

Selective vision is a wonderful thing, isn't it? Let's make sure we see the whole thing, eh?

Manchu wrote:I love the current design as well. The question is, wouldn't we both love plastic models more?

Not me.
I love the "heavy" weight of the metal - it's a purely psychological effect, but it actually lets me feel like I'm holding something of value in my fingers, and it gives them character. Kind of like an expensive chess game with wood, stone or glass > cheap plastic pieces!

I've often heard that a lot of people are hoping for plastic Sisters because they'd suddenly be a lot cheaper, and the army thus more affordable. However, when I'm looking at GW's current prices, I find that hard to believe. The only actual advantage would be their convertability, and probably a slight rise in detail - but personally, that's not enough for me to sacrifice both the firmness/weight and the current looks.

I have a feeling I'm in the minority with this opinion, though I wonder how many other dakkanauts would switch sides if we could foresee the eventual price of the minis (or their looks, fwiw).

 Lynata wrote:
Not me.
I love the "heavy" weight of the metal - it's a purely psychological effect, but it actually lets me feel like I'm holding something of value in my fingers, and it gives them character.

I've often heard that a lot of people are hoping for plastic Sisters because they'd suddenly be a lot cheaper, and the army thus more affordable. However, when I'm looking at GW's current prices, I find that hard to believe. The only actual advantage would be their convertability, and probably a slight rise in detail - but personally, that's not enough for me to sacrifice both the firmness/weight and the current looks.

I have a feeling I'm in the minority with this opinion, though I wonder how many other dakkanauts would switch sides if we could foresee the eventual price of the minis (or their looks, fwiw).

I'm with you on this entirely. You're certainly not alone.

Well, that could go either way, though, really. If we were able to divine the future price and appearance of the models, we might take up torch and pitchfork and march on GW, demanding them to take our money *NAOW!!11!one!eleven!" ... or we might string them up in the streets!

 curran12 wrote:
Snip

In what world are midriffs and nippleless werewolf boobs one step back from porn? Am I dealing with an Amish war gamer here? Get thee off the internet, Isadiah, and back to tilling thine plot! Plus, the models specifically in question were the Iron Empire ones. It's not a matter of "selective vision." It's a matter of understanding what is actually being talked about in this conversation.

And now the mods are throwing insults. Awesome.

Call me what you want, but those models are pretty much stuff that is so overtly "sexy" that I am put off by it. Something can be sexy without being overly sexualized, but when it comes to uniforms that show more flesh than anything, poses that are nothing more than pin-up poses and stuff that is clearly meant to be a nod to fetishes, it is way closer to porn than I want my minis to be. They're lowbrow and crass.

And yes, as I said, there are exceptions to this. Some are decent (and there's some I even want) but I do not trust Raging Heroes to do anything like SoB without them making it into trashy, over the top 'sexy'.

 Lynata wrote:
I've often heard that a lot of people are hoping for plastic Sisters because they'd suddenly be a lot cheaper, and the army thus more affordable.

You won't have trouble arguing against that point!

Right now, a single metal SoB goes for $6.67. A single plastic SM goes for $6.20.

The big issue is convertability, however. Plastic is easy to work with even if it lacks the satisfying heft of metal.

 curran12 wrote:
those models are pretty much stuff that is so overtly "sexy" that I am put off by it

I have no problem with someone saying "that's not for me." The problem is likening it to pornography. That's way over the top. And, again, the poster was explicitly talking about the Iron Empire models which show no skin.

Fair enough. Not quite porn, but there are way too many models out of Raging Heroes that, how do I best put this? Do sexy titillation for the sake of being sexy titillation. I find it off-putting because they have great potential for models (I own a few of them myself and apart from one annoying set of wings, they're great) but I would not be comfortable trusting anything that mirrors SoB to them.

In my observations, RH has a real big love of making things more fit a fetish ideal, a good example of this is almost all of their 'medic' female models which look like they were pulled out of a pin-up book or guide to Stereotypical Sexy Nurses. With the religious style of Sisters, I have no doubt that there would be a lot of really overt use of sexy nun tropes and armor that exposes more flesh than would really make any sense other than to be 'sexy'.

When you put it like that, I agree ... which is why I didn't pledge with their KS. I am currently on a pirate skirmish kick and bought a ton of stuff from Black Scorpion -- but NO female pirates, which seem a tad more pin-up in style than I have in mind for my games. Now, I still bought miniatures from them and I may still by female pirates from them -- Pirate Girls Set 2 looks pretty great actually. Same thing with the Iron Empire models, at least IMO.

Agreed. Apart from the girl on the far right, that Set 2 is pretty nice. It has that rare quality of subtlety and restraint which is solely lacking from a lot of female minis.

And then you get the Pirate Girls set 3....

I have to say, Set 2 looks really good, actually.
Pirates aren't exactly known for their modesty, so a bit of skin would be expected imo - it's a shame they went overboard with some of the figs in Set 1...

As for the Iron Empire girls, my only real issue with them would be the legs on about half of them. Fairly minor point, though, and one that may not even be that obvious with the final minis. May.

The current SoB have just the right level of bulkiness, although maybe that's just the familiarity talking.

[edit] Even the right girl in Set 2. I mean, we're talking pirates here - the blouses and corsets were common in that era, and maybe she just ripped her skirt off to have more freedom for her legs.

To run and fight and climb the rigging.

Even the girl in her petticoat doesn't bother me, really. I mean, the other three are crossdressing after all so I don't see anything too weird about one being in her underwear, which is equivalent to a contemporary summer dress anyway. The peekaboo and cocunut-hammock cleavage OTOH are not what I have in mind for my pirate skirmishes. My first female model buy from Black Scorpion will no doubt be the Governor's daughter, a kind of counts-as Elizabeth Swann from Curse of the Black Pearl. That model is also a good example of how a sculpt of a female character can be sexy/feminine without being crude/titillating. The Iron Empire ladies are neither -- the boob plates, I think are just to alleviate any ambiguities. That's the territory I'd say the current Sisters models occupy and where I hope they stay.

 Manchu wrote:
Even the girl in her petticoat doesn't bother me, really. I mean, the other three are crossdressing after all so I don't see anything too weird about one being in her underwear, which is equivalent to a contemporary summer dress anyway. The peekaboo and cocunut-hammock cleavage OTOH are not what I have in mind for my pirate skirmishes. My first female model buy from Black Scorpion will no doubt be the Governor's daughter, a kind of counts-as Elizabeth Swann from Curse of the Black Pearl. That model is also a good example of how a sculpt of a female character can be sexy/feminine without being crude/titillating. The Iron Empire ladies are neither -- the boob plates, I think are just to alleviate any ambiguities. That's the territory I'd say the current Sisters models occupy and where I hope they stay.

Yeah. I agree pretty wholeheartedly with this. There's a difference between having femininity and sex appeal and being over the top showy of it. That's why I like the current Sisters models for the most part because they are feminine without it being "LOOK AT THIS TATAS!" and bending the Sisters into ridiculous spine-ruining poses just to show them off.

What I like most about the TGG line, for use as IG or Necromundans?

Most of them aren't wearing heels.

It's the convertability that's got me wanting plastics, to be honest.

I already have enough Sisters to play with.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
It's the convertability that's got me wanting plastics, to be honest.

Same. Although I am also hoping plastics will make getting special and heavy weapons more affordable. A single SM Devestator is currently $11 (when you buy a kit of 5). A single Retributor is currently $23.

I've always loved the Sisters as an army, and a concept in the lore. I even thought the alliance with the Ordo Hereticus made a lot of sense, and added tons of character.

What prevented me from developing my army past 1,500pts was that the model range was very restrictive. Now conversions are possible, but the effort required in sawing, repositioning and sculpting Sister miniatures was prohibitive. I think this is a core issue that needs to be addressed in any update.

Furthermore, my prediction based on absolutely no evidence whatsoever is that the Sisters will get a full Codex, incorporating to core Order forces, and Ecclesiarchy support (Arco-flagellants, Penitent Engines, priests, and so forth) with undoubtedly a few new units.
The =][= on the other hand will become a Supplement for all Imperial armies. Therefore granting the three Ordos Majoris, with their own little gimmicks, Assassin operatives, Orbital Strikes, Special Characters, and some interesting thematic units. Some simple special rules keeps all parties happy- I get my Witch Hunters, purists get SoB Codex.

We dance, we kiss, we schmooze, we carry on, go home happy...

As a silly aside, a special rule I'd love would be "No-one expects the Inquisition"- add +1 to seize the initiative roles.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
It's the convertability that's got me wanting plastics, to be honest.

I already have enough Sisters to play with.

Yeah, same. I want plastics to convert. The solid metal mono-pose sisters have to go.

And you know what else plastics would mean? Bitz for sale. Need an extra part? Just order one.

I priced out a 1500 point SoB army versus the equivalent SM army. The Sisters ended up at 45 cents/point while the Marines were 23 cents/point. The model count was roughly the same. Now that GW has released the Chaos cultists, perhaps the Frateris Militia will make a return.

One note on the armor, it seems that the basic appearance of power armor would remain relatively constant, whether worn by Sisters or Marines. The Sisters kind of fill a gap between the standard humans of IG and the mutated SM.