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I'd prefer Tyranids got access to unique fortifications that compliment their aggressive playstyle, like spreading coversaves on a larger spread than the Venomthrope (one large spread from a fortification or a smaller moveable spread from a Venomthrope) or spread Shadow in the Warp. Shoehorning in Aegis lines just feels so cheap.
I'd love to see some special rule for hordy creatures (gaunts, gants) where if enough of them assault a vehicle they can immobilize it. say, as many as their back AV? call it buried in bodies or something of that nature. possibly a roll on pen damage chart -1 without a wound caused
TyCorny wrote: I'd love to see some special rule for hordy creatures (gaunts, gants) where if enough of them assault a vehicle they can immobilize it. say, as many as their back AV? call it buried in bodies or something of that nature. possibly a roll on pen damage chart -1 without a wound caused
At the very least, bump Termigants and Hormagaunts up to 40 or 50 max for broods. They should be able to match IG in numbers in a single unit.
I'd use that mechanic on Gargoyles instead. A brood of at least 10 gargoyles may make a single vector strike. For every 5 gargoyles over 10, may add 1 hit to the total. Against fliers or FMCs, may sacrifice d3 gargoyles to add that many hits strike.
via a strong source here on Faeit 212 wrote:
Tyranids, at least at current can ally with themselves essentially.
They have the standard:
2 HQ 6 Troops
3 Elites
3 Fast Attack
3 Heavy Support
And can take an optional
1 HQ 2 Troops (not minimum 1, up to 2, but instead MUST take 2 and then...)
And if they do, it unlocks
1 Elite
1 Fast Attack
1 Heavy Support.
Only an HQ from the core can be warlord.
Then the diversity comes into play.
Hive Fleets now have different rules (think chapter tactics). Your secondary brood can be from a different hive fleet. Not representing two fleets working together, just similar evolutionary strains.
There are also army wide FoC changes based on your Hive Tyrant. Wings give you the option to take Gargoyles as your compulsory troops (so max 2) for instance. Bonded carapace let's you take Carnifex's as elites as well as heavy support (but can't be more than a certain number of points, so they end up kinda baby).
They have some really cool adaptations for skyfire.
Warriors can be purchased as sergeant style upgrades for gaunts and gargoyles. They get the biomorphs of the brood and are not attached like wolf guard.
Tyrannofex will see a points decrease.
Pyrovore will see torrent.
Ranged biomorphs contribute to a model's close combat.
Melée biomorphs enhance a model's ranges attacks.
You take some biomorphs that affect both, like +1 str to both.
But having a gun makes melée better and having melée weapons improves your guns. There's some new synergy there. Mostly for big bugs.
Psychic ability is a lot worse than what it is now, but it'd be difficult to explain and just upset people who don't have the whole picture.
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Unix wrote: Tyranids are deficient in ranged weapons, with a complete lack of ranged anti-heavy tank weapons. It's why 4-6 hive guard, the one unit that can take a S8 weapon, show up in almost every competitive build. Even with that AV14 vehicles are almost impossible to deal with until you get your MC's on them, and that's an if.
You seem to be stuck in 5th edition.
Tyranids haven't had it easier with vehicles than they do now, and Hive Guard don't factor in at all. With the inclusion of Hull Points, MC's with Devourers (most commonly seen on Flyrants) can very easily strip up to AV 12 vehicles in a single salvo, and vehicles with less (or hit in rear armour thanks to their mobility) will start taking penetrating hits to strip off weapons and immobilise them. Flyrants are also a good answer to AV14, since they can drop into glide mode and Smash a vehicle in assault if absolutely needed. The ever present Tervigons can also catch them in assault now due to AV14 vehicles tending to be slow, and Tervigons being faster than they used to be thanks to random charge distances.
Add on top of this the fact that massed vehicles just aren't common anymore anyway, and armour has never been easier for Tyranids to deal with. Hive Guard are really redundant these days. Their only niche is AV13. They don't have the shots needed to strip AV14 hull points, they can't even get a lucky 1 hit kill on AV 14 anymore, and AV12 and under is better dealt with via Brainleech Devourers. On top of this, they're pretty terrible at killing infantry once the tanks are gone. So unless you're facing an abundance of AV13 (for example, Eldar or Necron players), Hive Guard are better left at home.
Actually I'm stuck in 3rd
6th is becoming my favorite edition since then though, since I like the element that flyers add, especially now that things are becoming balanced by the increase of units with skyfire. It's been my experience so far, and maybe this is different for you, that the most successful lists spam unit types that are difficult to deal if you don’t build a list to specifically deal with them; MC’s, AV14 or Flyers, each of which can only effectively dealt with by weapons with special rules or with high S & AP. You're right that 6th has reduced the number of vehicles that people run, but I've found that because of that people carry fewer pure anti tank weapons; less lascannons and more missile launchers because the missile launchers have a dual role, which actually makes AV14 quite effective since you have to hull point it to death.
This goes back to what I hope, but doubt, will happen with the Tyranids. You're absolutely right that running a bunch of MC's can be successful, especially spamming flying MC's which gives you another level of protection. However, since most of the points are being spent on these MC's the "swarm" element is turned into something that you have to be preserve in order to hold objectives, as opposed to being the main shock force of the army. I worded my complaint poorly. It isn't that the Tyranids can't be competitive or can't handle certain unit types, it's that they are entirely reliant upons MC's and I hope that the new rule book will allow them flexibility to become more than just a MC army with a few units of objective holders.
There are also army wide FoC changes based on your Hive Tyrant. Wings give you the option to take Gargoyles as your compulsory troops (so max 2) for instance.
There are also army wide FoC changes based on your Hive Tyrant. Wings give you the option to take Gargoyles as your compulsory troops (so max 2) for instance.
I like this a lot.
IIRC, there was something like this a while back as well. Aha. March:
Tyranids - March 2013
FoC manipulation and "new" deployment options are based on the various stages and methods of a Tyranid invasion. b]PENDING[/b]
- A lot of flexibility in the form of army composition. As opposed to the very mutable stats of units and weapons of the old codex, which caused a lot of headaches for opponents. PENDING - Hive Tyrants are the main source of FOC manipulation. The idea is that they can specialize the scoring elements of the army.... but you have to pay for it. PENDING - Reserve manipulation is a very strong theme in the codex. These options are more numerous and reliable than in the current codex. And that's because. PENDING - Mycetic Spores have expanded rules for ease of use. This includes MC broods. PENDING - Trygon tunnels are also greatly expanded. Raveners have additional synergy with the tunnels. Even Monstrous Creatures can use them but with a penalty. PENDING - More outflanking options. Various ideas are being thrown around on the topic of protecting Genestealers and especially Lictors from being shot to pieces when they appear. PENDING
And the most important rule that is being tested...
Synapse offering protection from Instant Death in a brand new way. Right now this is being tested only on creatures that have the Synapse rule (not within the aura): Wounds that trigger ID can instead be rolled to either cause 1 Wound, 2 Wounds, or ID. PENDING
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edit: to be clear, some of it is obvious (Tyrannofex seeing a points decrease).
The FOC manipulation (Flyrant makes 2 garg choices troops) makes zero sense.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/20 16:03:21
My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
rigeld2 wrote: Yeah - not buying that Faeit rumor at all.
edit: to be clear, some of it is obvious (Tyrannofex seeing a points decrease).
The FOC manipulation (Flyrant makes 2 garg choices troops) makes zero sense.
As a SM player I don't understand your comment about the Flyrant. SM captains on bikes have made bikers troops for ages. Why does this established mechanic not work for bugs?
JSF wrote:... this is really quite an audacious move by GW, throwing out any pretext that this is a game and that its customers exist to do anything other than buy their overpriced products for the sake of it. The naked arrogance, greed and contempt for their audience is shocking.
rigeld2 wrote: Yeah - not buying that Faeit rumor at all.
edit: to be clear, some of it is obvious (Tyrannofex seeing a points decrease).
The FOC manipulation (Flyrant makes 2 garg choices troops) makes zero sense.
As a SM player I don't understand your comment about the Flyrant. SM captains on bikes have made bikers troops for ages. Why does this established mechanic not work for bugs?
It also makes sense with fluff. If the hive decided it needed to have air superiority/mobility in its current battle, why would it not evolve its smaller creations too?
Hivefleet Oblivion wrote: Has anyone heard the (scary) rumour that ymgarls won't be able to assault directly after waking up?
Sadly, with the changes to vanguard veterans and the overall 6th mantra "no assaulting from reserves" (even lucious pattern pods from FW lost this) I am not surprised. The only being able to snap fire at the unit after it pops up, I think is a fair trade as long as the points costs are also adjusted properly.
Been out of the game for awhile, trying to find time to get back into it.
I like the rumor set from March more just because during 5th I played all-reserve Tyranids and had a blast with them.
It's hard for me to take any of these seriously given that we're close to 3 months out from its earliest release date. They're still fun to discuss, of course.
IIRC, the studio kicked around ideas for Hive Fleet rules for previous codicies, or at least rules for HFs in various stages of invasion. Those rules would appear to need to have a little juice to make the rumored "allies" system worth it.
And yes, I think it's more or less guaranteed that Ymgarls won't assault the turn they arrive. And honestly, I think it helps overall game balance and design if that's just something that no unit is allowed to do in this edition.
Bell of Lost Souls 8/19/13 wrote:First off, most rumors are pointing to November for Nids - and we all know that new releases ship the first Saturday of the month.
Carnifex - significant cost reduction
Harpy – big overhaul. New model/dual-combo kit, Flying Monstrous, Sonic Screech combines with Vector striking. Additional Spore Mine Cysts may be purchased as upgrades. Default Stranglethorn has new upgrade options.
New Flyer - Fast Attack choice, the alternative build for the Harpy kit.
Ymgarl Genestealers - New special arrival rule is shared with the Lictor, may now purchase standard Genestealer biomorph upgrades.
Hiveguard: new weapon upgrade option (available to a handful of units) that grants skyfire with an "enhanced ability" to ground FMCs.
Just move Carnifexes to standard already so they can be our new Terma-Hormagaunts, while Tervigon and Tyrannofex fill in the mid sized bugs and the new one/Harpy are the actual big bugs.
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rigeld2 wrote: Yeah - not buying that Faeit rumor at all.
edit: to be clear, some of it is obvious (Tyrannofex seeing a points decrease).
The FOC manipulation (Flyrant makes 2 garg choices troops) makes zero sense.
As a SM player I don't understand your comment about the Flyrant. SM captains on bikes have made bikers troops for ages. Why does this established mechanic not work for bugs?
It also makes sense with fluff. If the hive decided it needed to have air superiority/mobility in its current battle, why would it not evolve its smaller creations too?
The part that doesn't make sense is that it only makes the minimum troop number a troop choice.
Fluffwise - if you're going to evolve wings, why not go balls to the wall and evolve everything with wings?
Rules wise I just don't see it happening. It seems far more wishlisty than realistic.
My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
If rumours are true, it's not November, it will be Nidvember.
Agies Grimm:The "Learn to play, bro" mentality is mostly just a way for someone to try to shame you by implying that their metaphorical nerd-wiener is bigger than yours. Which, ironically, I think nerds do even more vehemently than jocks.
Everything is made up and the points don't matter. 40K or Who's Line is it Anyway?
Auticus wrote: Or in summation: its ok to exploit shoddy points because those are rules and gamers exist to find rules loopholes (they are still "legal"), but if the same force can be composed without structure, it emotionally feels "wrong".
Another rumor found on 4chan (and Warseer). Season to taste:
someone posted these on 4chan.
>Army-wide notes
>- No FOC and ally table changes
>- Devastation and Adaptation are new power tables with 3 powers each + primaris.
>- Primaris for Devastation = Warp Blast, Adaptation = Onslaught (similar to battle-focus)
>- All Tyranid powers can be used with either one or two charges to increase the effect.
>- Ravenous Advance: Units with this rule can run & assault in the same turn.
>- The Ground Trembles: All MC cause d3 Hammer of Wrath hits.
>- Red Terror, Deathleaper and Old One Eye are unique upgrades to their respective broods.
>Harpy/Erinye, plastic dual kit.
>- Harpy is designed to kill infantry hordes/provide support via its special vector strike.
>- Vector striking it can either use Spore Mine Cyst to create blasts along the path or Sonic Screech to halve initiative and cause a pinning test.
>- Erinye is an AA variant in Elite, very different front torso/head piece with gribbly tentacles.
>- Increased Swoop speed and its gimmick is grappling other flyers.
>- Vector strike -> dice roll 4+ -> the enemy flyer is dragged directly behind where the Erinye ended its move, including a new facing.
>- Both can buy broods of Gargoyles that can drop off in the movement phase when not vector striking.
>Zoanthrope (Doom)/Genethrope, plastic dual kit.
>- Zoanthropes are ML1 psykers, have access to the Devastation, Telepathy, Telekinesis tables.
>- Genethropes are similar, but have access to the Adaptation and Biomancy tables.
>- New unique biomorphs. Increased Shadow in the Warp range, Deny the Witch boost aura, two others.
>- Both types can upgrade up to ML2 but only ever get 1 power, each Elite choice is a unit of 1-3 that can contain mixded Zoan and Gene.
>- Doom has access to all the above tables and comes with Essence Leech and 3 powers.
>- Consumes a wound every time it uses a power (except for Leech), but can keep casting until a Perils roll or its down to 1 wound.
>Mycetic Spore/Mycetic Hive Node, plastic dual kit
>- Spore is a Dedicated Transport, notable changes are that SC can join and MC broods can all opt to get spores.
>- Hive Nodes are bought by HQ models (1-3 choice for Tyrants, 1 for every other HQ), no transport capacity.
>- Nodes provide Synapse and can be configured in one of many ways. Grants poison or shrouding to nearby units or terraforms (Dangerous Terrain) the surroundings.
>Carnifex
>- Old unused bimorphs in the box are options again.
>- Base cost the same but upgrades are much, much cheaper overall but lots of "only buy 1 out of this list" kind of choices which greatly limits what a fex can have.
>- Tusked gives HoW an AP value, Thornback increases the number of HoW hits.
>- Enhanced Senses gives Night Fighting.
>- Tail Scythe & Tail Mace each deliver a single hit to all models in BtB at Ini 1, with different stats.
>- Living Battering Ram rule: Changed to allow the Carnifex to assault the contents of a building/transport on a 4+ if it was destroyed by its charge, rolled once for the brood.
Those 4chan rumors look almost too good to be true! I like just about all of those. If half of them are true my poor wallet this winter will receive a D strength ap1 apocalyptic barrage armor bane attack!
Thousand Sons 4000+
Tons!
Tons!
Tons!
2,000pts