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I remember reading something like the tyranids use mostly short ranged creatures because they're the easiest to make. As long as that suffice why would it bother making more complex entities? They still can and will make ranged units.
Edit: Found it! It's in the biovore's fluff.

My concern is that you end up with another 40k race that can do all things.

I know it is harder to make sides balanced, but lets have different races capable of different things.

I like playing Nids, and with the new BRB, 5 of the 6 mission types I have a chance of winning. If the mission is "Purge the alien", and the other side has lots of guns then I stand no chance. But read the mission title, what can I expect

Yeah, I don't want them to be able to do everything. Whenever I see people say they want long ranged anti-tank or anti-aircraft, I just don't think that fits Tyranids. I'd rather have short-ranged or cc options to pull it off and have to think about how to deliver it.

Tyranids are supposed to be in your face monsters, not masters of long range engagements.

 B0B MaRlEy wrote:
I remember reading something like the tyranids use mostly short ranged creatures because they're the easiest to make. As long as that suffice why would it bother making more complex entities? They still can and will make ranged units.
Edit: Found it! It's in the biovore's fluff.

Makes sense. Firing over long distances would require more energy and hence use more biomass (food) to propel them a greater distance. Whereas firing them over say, 50 yards, would require very little as opposed to a couple hundred metres like Venom Cannons, or even longer in the case of the Biovores' massive 48", the same as Autocannons and Lascannons.



Although, what that passage actually says is that the Nids don't NEED to attack at range if they can win close up, but as the press deeper into our galaxy, they have found that the factions are focusing on long range firepower. Instead of weathering the storm, the Biovore was created to take out the artillery at long range so the swarm wasn't ripped to pieces.

I just think they could have modelled the guns way better. A gun coming out of the mouth, or out of the back like the biovore. Something. Much more "bug"-like than a gun stitched onto their arm. imho ofcourse...

Attacking at range is something you do to try and preserve your own forces, hoping that through the combination of distance, superior range, reduced accuracy etc in various mixtures means that your opponents will be unable to retaliate effectively.

Nids have access to a near infinite supply of forces, which they can recycle, and no clear benefit to making any effort to preserve their troops. You don't need superior range, just more flesh than your opponent has bullets.

But if you can remove the number of bullets being fired at you, the bullets:bodies ratio increases.

 Ironwill13791 wrote:
I hope the December 7th release is correct. My friend and I are ready to record "We hiss you a merry Nidmas." to celebrate the joint festivities. He can have his first game with the new book around xmas.

Hmm.

"A day that will live in Nidfamy"?




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 McNinja wrote:
Tyranids are supposed to be in your face monsters, not masters of long range engagements.

But not exclusively the former, because they've never been that going back to RT.

 Deadshot wrote:
But if you can remove the number of bullets being fired at you, the bullets:bodies ratio increases.

That's my point, the preservation of bodies is totally irrelevant, why go to the trouble?

But we are drifting into fluff discussion, which is OT for this thread.

 azreal13 wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
But if you can remove the number of bullets being fired at you, the bullets:bodies ratio increases.

That's my point, the preservation of bodies is totally irrelevant, why go to the trouble?

But we are drifting into fluff discussion, which is OT for this thread.

Not quite as fluff dictates the rules and what models look like/are designed.


The preservation of bodies does matter because it takes time and resources to replenish losses, enough for Nids. By having more living bodies on the ground you can win quicker and easier and if you reduce the amount of liv8ng bodies dying you can keep up that level with no extra expenditure.

Just curious. When did Warriors become a HQ choice for 5th edition? I know they were for 4th edition, but I am sure they were removed on the GW site as an HQ choice.

I looked on the GW site for Tyranids, and see Warriors as an HQ choice. Things to come, or a boo boo?

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440295a&prodId=prod1050114

Davor wrote:
Just curious. When did Warriors become a HQ choice for 5th edition? I know they were for 4th edition, but I am sure they were removed on the GW site as an HQ choice.

I looked on the GW site for Tyranids, and see Warriors as an HQ choice. Things to come, or a boo boo?

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440295a&prodId=prod1050114

They aren't but it may be because they can be used to make a Tyranid Prime, an HQ choice.

I want release date to be January, have to many models to paint already

So, I'm frustrated.

We had this great photobomb of a new Hive Guard kit last week, with no back story, which leads us all to speculate.

It looks as though if boxed kits are being seen of new models, a codex release is imminent. Now, the White Dwarf is scheduled to sell on Nov 30, so that's 18 days away. 2.5 weeks.


I said it before when the tau were rumored to be coming out - these last 3-4 weeks before confirmation are worse than awaiting a child's birth.

Please someone, anyone, with leaks, pics, new rumors, anything speak up!!!!

Barksdale wrote:I just think they could have modelled the guns way better. A gun coming out of the mouth, or out of the back like the biovore. Something. Much more "bug"-like than a gun stitched onto their arm. imho ofcourse...

For what, the Hive Guard? Not sure I'm a fan of that. Keep in mind Tyranids aren't "bugs." They are more like 1/3 crustacean, 1/3 insect, 1/3 space dinosaur. They use whatever matter they consume.

Deadshot wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
But if you can remove the number of bullets being fired at you, the bullets:bodies ratio increases.

That's my point, the preservation of bodies is totally irrelevant, why go to the trouble?

But we are drifting into fluff discussion, which is OT for this thread.

Not quite as fluff dictates the rules and what models look like/are designed.


The preservation of bodies does matter because it takes time and resources to replenish losses, enough for Nids. By having more living bodies on the ground you can win quicker and easier and if you reduce the amount of liv8ng bodies dying you can keep up that level with no extra expenditure.

They have no interest in preservation of anything except the Hive Ships and Norn Queens. They consume everything on a planet, even their own critters, and quickly reproduce with it. Long range firepower on the ground doesn't help them in this cause, they aren't highly tactical (short of a few like the Swarmlord), and inaccurate distance artillery makes a battle take longer. They just want flesh so they can eat it.

Also, for in-game purposes, I don't want Tyranids to have a shooty army option. Having some firepower at short range is fine, but this book would be the worst incarnation in Tyranid history if it offered a bunch of long-range artillery options. Or even one super-competitive unit. A long-range gun shouldn't be an auto-include in a Tyranids army. Ever. Tyranids don't win by matching firepower. They launch organisms that blow themselves up and do area damage (spore mines, hive ship projectiles), or lots of close ranged nastiness with spitting beetles, acid/venom, claws and teeth.

Odd_Socks wrote:I want release date to be January, have to many models to paint already

If they are released in December, it doesn't mean you have to buy them in December. Just saying.

May be old news but GW website now list Warriors under HQ in the online store. Is this new? I do not recall seeing them there before. Significant?

Since Warrior Primes are HQ, not significant. I think they were there before.

Zookie wrote:
May be old news but GW website now list Warriors under HQ in the online store. Is this new? I do not recall seeing them there before. Significant?

I mentioned this as well. I don't recall this either. I am sure this is not the case, so don't think all of a sudden GW would put them there for Tyranids Prime all of a sudden. Time will tell.

Hey new here
My friends and I just restarted a collection (we do so every couple years) and this time I was drafted to Nids

But after coming online I see Nids might be just around the corner. I want to start collecting now, but I also love brand new models more than anything else

Can anyone hear make a guess as to what might still be a safe buy now and what to hold off on. I'm getting the battleforce now even though I'm hazarding most models in it will be updated and a tervigon. Think I should hold out on the Hive Tyrant and more gaunts?

thanks

The plastic tyrant and Tervigons/Tyrannofex likely safe, as they've been updated recently.

The Gaunt/Gant boxes are probably ok as well, but I seem to remember reading some possibility of Genestealers getting redone (but can't remember if it was wishlisting or a proper rumour)

Avoid anything that is currently metal/Finecast or a very old plastic kit with associated update rumours, you should be safe.

rigeld2 wrote:
Since Warrior Primes are HQ, not significant. I think they were there before.

But they weren't there all through 5th edition, and not as recent as a few days ago.

takonite wrote:
Hey new here
My friends and I just restarted a collection (we do so every couple years) and this time I was drafted to Nids

But after coming online I see Nids might be just around the corner. I want to start collecting now, but I also love brand new models more than anything else

Can anyone hear make a guess as to what might still be a safe buy now and what to hold off on. I'm getting the battleforce now even though I'm hazarding most models in it will be updated and a tervigon. Think I should hold out on the Hive Tyrant and more gaunts?

thanks

The Hive Tyrant/Swarm Lord, Tervigon/Tyrannofex, Trygon/Mawloc, Raveners and Gargoyles kits were all released in plastic since last edition, so are safe bets, except for maybe wargear options. I'd avoid any finecast models, as those are the most likely to be updated. Warriors are a good candidate to be included in a dual-kit with Shrikes, so I'd wait with those as well. The Carnifex kit has aged well, so don't think that one will be updated.

Brassangel, you missunderstand the use of Biovore. They don't stand and have firefights with the artillery and the rest wait, they lay down covering and supressive fire, destroying hostiles at the extreme distances that the horde won't reach anyways because they are going to die before they do due to the firepower.

What you said about them not being tactical, is simply false. The Hive Mind is incredibly tactically and strategic- the Swarmlord is still governed by the Hive Mind and just has a lot more of it than other Hive Tyrants. The Hive Mind was able to defeat Calgar's strategies, with ease mind, and if you don't think of Calgar as a brilliant tactnician, which he is, you need to rethink who is.

However, I will agree that shooty options should not be an autotake. They should have some* long range firepower, such as Tyrannofexes, Hive Guard and Biovores, but these should be specialised to their role. The other creatures should be geared for close combat to become viable shooties, but not superior as shooters. Like the Dakkafex. The Carnifex should be primarily a combat monster with options for a gun or two.

As long as cc is nerfed and there are flyers, Tyranids are in need of firepower.
And long gone are the days that Genestealers have been as good in cc as their fluff indicates.

 Kroothawk wrote:
As long as cc is nerfed and there are flyers, Tyranids are in need of firepower.
And long gone are the days that Genestealers have been as good in cc as their fluff indicates.

Genestealers need to go down in points for sure, I think a lot of stuff will. I disagree that nids need rang or need to be good at it. I think they need mobility and more models on the field. I win a surprising amount of games with nids despite not cheesing. I think the key to their play style is target saturation and locking stuff down. I find that i have a lot fo stratiegic control with nids, the units they will shoot at are predictable and depends on what you put in front of their face. If I can't deal with something, send a horde at it and tie it up. Use some drop elements to take out snipers/support and play agro and play objectives. I can't tell you how many times I got my army wiped, but because I pushed them so far back away from anything relevant to the end game, I still won.

 brassangel wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
Since Warrior Primes are HQ, not significant. I think they were there before.

But they weren't there all through 5th edition, and not as recent as a few days ago.

That *could* support the notion of Warriors operating like Warlocks and other units purchased out of HQ and then able to be individually joined to units as characters. Although obviously it might not mean that at all.

Really at this point I'm just looking forward to some shakeups.

DufenDorgen wrote:
I disagree that nids need rang or need to be good at it. I think they need mobility and more models on the field.

Ever tried to fight 9 Necron flyers with 50 hormagaunts?

Just use some tactics.

Well maybe they do the thing that has been suggested before with gargoyles clogging flyers engines or dragging down FMC through sheer weight. I'd be a cool little rule if done properly anyway.