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So, I am deployed again, and was thinking what would I do with my TDY money that I recieve after deployment. It works out to roughly 100 USD a month I am gone, so, looking at 900 USD. Just figured I would price out an army that I want to have fun with, not a massive tournament army, just about 1500 to 1850 blood angel army. It comes to 643.00. Really! This is killing me. I just can't justify this.

librarian w/ force ax
assault squad x2
tactical squad
drop pod
razor back x2
baal predator x3
predator x3
BA shoulder pad 1
BA shoulder pad 2
Flesh tearers should pads
plasma gun pack
thunder hammer pack.

What's the problem? You have nearly 260 bucks left over!

I suppose I'm confused why you can't justify it? If you're already getting TDY funds, you're in a combat zone so you'll be getting pay tax free .... if the 643 is coming from TDY funds that should total 900 and isn't a normal pay check I say go for it ....

Now, as my unit's Command Financial Specialist I'm going to tell you to save it .... but I'd blow TDY funds on an army.

So your buying a load of 28mm tanks from GW, with add-on kits and its expensive? Really? I'm shocked! Sarcasm aside, yes GW is expensive and you've chosen mech army so the prices are gonna soar.

Is that $600 or so with or without the 20-30% online discount?

If its with - ouch. If its without, then it'd be $514-450. Much more manageable.

And there is always picking them up piecemeal via bartertown or ebay, probably be even cheaper.

He means that when you look at what it really is for the price.

I did the same with when I was thinking about doing Tau, 4 broadsides is $240, that's 4 pieces of plastic the size of a pop can that don't do anything other then requiring me to put hours into them only to have them potentially be screwed over in years to come rendering them worthless.

Long story short: Warhammer is a stupid investment.

 Ravenous D wrote:

Long story short: Warhammer is a stupid investment.

In your opinion.

Those same $240 could go into what, one or two NFL football games, a couple nights out drinking, etc. All depends on what you value, and how much you have to spend on it.

His referenced $600+ for an army would allow me to spend hours upon hours assembling, converting, painting, and playing.

Funny though, in 4 editions of the game none of my chaos space marine, marine, dark eldar, IG, etc. armies have ever been screwed over. I also don't build to the coolest netlist and buy all the latest greatest toys. I buy what I like and what will allow me to enjoy painting and playing with them. That way, nothing is ever 'invalidated' (and I'll give the obligatory shout out to Daemonhunter armies, Lost and the Damned, Squats, and nowadays SOB).

Yeah, I'm okay with keeping up with new releases for my existing armies, but there's no way I'd start a new army at current prices.

 Ravenous D wrote:
He means that when you look at what it really is for the price.

I did the same with when I was thinking about doing Tau, 4 broadsides is $240, that's 4 pieces of plastic the size of a pop can that don't do anything other then requiring me to put hours into them only to have them potentially be screwed over in years to come rendering them worthless.

Long story short: Warhammer is a stupid investment.

Not even an investment anymore. To to OP, save your money. Get into something else or save your money for a rainy day. Real life will rear it's ugly head and having some extra cash around will when you need it.

Are those GW direct prices?

Cause if not, order all the kits online for 20% off, dump the shoulder pads in favour of decals, they're a pain to do properly, but probably no more time consuming than painting a cast pad and are free in most of the kits, (many of the cast pads are old, and look slightly too small on modern kits BTW) or look at the FW A4 sheets, and check bits sellers, those that are left, for TH or PGs. Has to be said, the GW bits packs can be ok value compared to bits sellers for popular items though.

 Adam LongWalker wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:
He means that when you look at what it really is for the price.

I did the same with when I was thinking about doing Tau, 4 broadsides is $240, that's 4 pieces of plastic the size of a pop can that don't do anything other then requiring me to put hours into them only to have them potentially be screwed over in years to come rendering them worthless.

Long story short: Warhammer is a stupid investment.

Not even an investment anymore. To to OP, save your money. Get into something else or save your money for a rainy day. Real life will rear it's ugly head and having some extra cash around will when you need it.

Oh, I don't know. At this point, even selling my stuff at 50% off means I'm at least making my money back on stuff I bought years ago. So that $600 now might be worth $1200 in just a few short years

The interesting thing about spending on hobbies is that whether its Infinity, 40k, or whatever, you still end up spending the same amount of money either way. So it really all comes down to 1) do you like the game, 2) can you find opponents. Its all well and good to play, say Dropzone Commander, but I know zero people who have bought it or play it. Compared to lots of 40k, Fantasy, and X-wing players.

 Cruentus wrote:

 Adam LongWalker wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:
He means that when you look at what it really is for the price.

I did the same with when I was thinking about doing Tau, 4 broadsides is $240, that's 4 pieces of plastic the size of a pop can that don't do anything other then requiring me to put hours into them only to have them potentially be screwed over in years to come rendering them worthless.

Long story short: Warhammer is a stupid investment.

Not even an investment anymore. To to OP, save your money. Get into something else or save your money for a rainy day. Real life will rear it's ugly head and having some extra cash around will when you need it.

Oh, I don't know. At this point, even selling my stuff at 50% off means I'm at least making my money back on stuff I bought years ago. So that $600 now might be worth $1200 in just a few short years

The interesting thing about spending on hobbies is that whether its Infinity, 40k, or whatever, you still end up spending the same amount of money either way. So it really all comes down to 1) do you like the game, 2) can you find opponents. Its all well and good to play, say Dropzone Commander, but I know zero people who have bought it or play it. Compared to lots of 40k, Fantasy, and X-wing players.

Heh you are referring to the speculative market. I've got 35 grand into this game, don't think I will get a return on my investment so to speak But that is not my purpose into this part of the hobby. It was to have fun, but the cost for the average person to get into this hobby is too high. I don't see new people staying into the hobby because of the cost. the vets are leaving because of cost, codex fatigue, and a lousy set of rules, so they are trying other games systems much to the chagrin of GW.

Now your second comment is correct. Play what other people are playing in your region, then if you want to still game then make the investment. Myself eh If I was 20 to 30 something again I'd save the money and maybe buy something second hand.

Surprised this hasn't been mentioned yet in the thread, but you might find this thread interesting:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/369662.page

Nearly all of these will be (substantially) cheaper than starting a GW force from scratch - whatever you do, don't give up on the whole wargaming/miniature painting thing!

My recommendation for games would be Infinity, X-Wing, Dreadball, Kings of War in terms of what I'm enjoying at present (+ some historicals)

If you want to play 40k (with a local group etc.) consider ebay, or filling the army with Mantic stuff or from some other producer.

Whenever you look at the total cost of an army, there is a bit of sticker shock. But if you build slowly, and stick with the same army, it will serve you well for years. You are going to plunk down a large wad of cash, but spend hours of hobby time assembling and painting, and then years using them.

I consider my hobby funds guilt free cash. I budget myself a very small amount ($20 a month) as a keep me happy allowance. Which I can spend without worrying about fiscal responsibility. This is supplemented with loose coins rolled and taken to the bank periodically. If it wasn't GW, it would be something else. The trick is realizing that you do need to invest some money in keeping yourself happy. As long as your bills are paid, you can either spend the rest on ale and whores, or a new Blood Angels army. The choice is yours, don't feel bad about what you go with.

EBAY. EBAY EBAY EBAY. BUY ON EBAY. I've puchased ALL my orks from Ebay. Worst problem I ever had was I got a few incorrectly assembled boyz.

maybe you could drop some of the preds and replace them with cheaper units.

I would have recomended discounts sellers but I seem to have been ninja'ed

Buy second hand or online. Don't buy directly from GW unless you like wasting money

 Adam LongWalker wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:
He means that when you look at what it really is for the price.

I did the same with when I was thinking about doing Tau, 4 broadsides is $240, that's 4 pieces of plastic the size of a pop can that don't do anything other then requiring me to put hours into them only to have them potentially be screwed over in years to come rendering them worthless.

Long story short: Warhammer is a stupid investment.

Not even an investment anymore. To to OP, save your money. Get into something else or save your money for a rainy day. Real life will rear it's ugly head and having some extra cash around will when you need it.

He's in Afghanistan - What could possible go wrong?

OP - buy your toys and enjoy them mate but don't pay through the nose unless you have to. I would imagine the Warstore will support Forces with some decent deals if you ask, plus you probably get it shipped over there on a subsidised basis like out bloke.

Personally I put things in perspective of how much I will use and enjoy them.

$643.00 is really not a great deal for a hobby. Or maybe I just have expensive hobbies.

Its really not much seeing how much fun your going to have. Plus its enough at one time to keep you pretty busy and from spending any more money. Even if you buy it one thing at a time it would equal the same amount . Just buy everything at once it will also help with army jumping. I spend around a grand every tax return on an army. I stick with it through the whole year. I buy everything at once and nothing else. Maybe paint and glue. Through out the year i spend money on smaller games like warmachine/hordes. Which is tons of fun i just got into it. But thats how i budget my hobby money.

If you've always wanted the army go for it..... I've seen people hold out on a purchase they really wanted - only to later spend the money on some drunken adventures that they regret.

It's expensive, yes, but treating yourself by spending $600 on something you enjoy is money well spent regardless of what it is spent on whether that be toys, cars, drink or bungee jumping.
Just be smart about shopping for the best deals.

For the price you can buy a starter set to play golf. Or just enough equipment to play hockey (without league fees). Or learn how to SCUBA dive. Or (insert other expensive hobby).

Here is what it boils down to:

If you have the money then spend it on whatever you think will give you the most enjoyment. As long as you don't avoid paying the bills that have to be paid, then there is nothing wrong with having an expensive hobby.

If YOU think that you will have fun with YOUR expensive GW purchase, then spend it.

If YOU don't think it's worth it, then don't.

I don't think anyone would argue that miniature wargaming (even a full IG army from Forge World) is relatively cheap compared to a lot of hobbies such as the ones you listed.

The issue is that within the miniature wargaming hobby specifically, they are one of the most expensive. That they have almost achieved a monopoly, or at least viewing themselves in that role (with 'GW' being synonymous with 'hobby'), means that they and their over-inflated prices have the potential to sit, Buddha-like, and blocking the gateway to the wargaming/miniature painting industry. Passers by take one look at it, see the prices, and then continue on past, not realising that there are tons of other, far cheaper (and potentially just as fun) alternatives. They'll never know what might have been.

It's why I have such an issue with their apparent war on the independent stores - if those stores die, and the avenues to other games with it, then the new blood coming into the miniature wargaming hobby will be restricted to upper middle class kids whose parents can afford to blow $500 on a splurge of interest, then dump the rest of it on ebay after they get bored after 6 months and carry on. It's not doing anything for the long-term health and persistence of the industry.

We need some of these other games (perhaps Warmachine is almost there?) to become successful enough that GW have to take notice - start to become competitive with their pricing again, and introduce some of the dynamism and creativity that made them king in the first place, rather than just rolling out tired old re-hashes of material that anyone who has been interested in the hobby for more than 3-4 years will have seen before. I think ultimately the virtual monopoly isn't good for anyone.. perhaps even GW themselves, if they are to compete with the vast number of draws pulling for younger people's cash these days.

Well, I understand your pain, the scary thing is, this time next year, it will be more expensive. So with that it mind, it actually makes MORE sense to buy now.

 Pacific wrote:
I don't think anyone would argue that miniature wargaming (even a full IG army from Forge World) is relatively cheap compared to a lot of hobbies such as the ones you listed.

The issue is that within the miniature wargaming hobby specifically, they are one of the most expensive. That they have almost achieved a monopoly, or at least viewing themselves in that role (with 'GW' being synonymous with 'hobby'), means that they and their over-inflated prices have the potential to sit, Buddha-like, and blocking the gateway to the wargaming/miniature painting industry. Passers by take one look at it, see the prices, and then continue on past, not realising that there are tons of other, far cheaper (and potentially just as fun) alternatives. They'll never know what might have been.

It's why I have such an issue with their apparent war on the independent stores - if those stores die, and the avenues to other games with it, then the new blood coming into the miniature wargaming hobby will be restricted to upper middle class kids whose parents can afford to blow $500 on a splurge of interest, then dump the rest of it on ebay after they get bored after 6 months and carry on. It's not doing anything for the long-term health and persistence of the industry.

We need some of these other games (perhaps Warmachine is almost there?) to become successful enough that GW have to take notice - start to become competitive with their pricing again, and introduce some of the dynamism and creativity that made them king in the first place, rather than just rolling out tired old re-hashes of material that anyone who has been interested in the hobby for more than 3-4 years will have seen before. I think ultimately the virtual monopoly isn't good for anyone.. perhaps even GW themselves, if they are to compete with the vast number of draws pulling for younger people's cash these days.

Very well put, all of it.

 Cruentus wrote:
The interesting thing about spending on hobbies is that whether its Infinity, 40k, or whatever, you still end up spending the same amount of money either way. So it really all comes down to 1) do you like the game, 2) can you find opponents. Its all well and good to play, say Dropzone Commander, but I know zero people who have bought it or play it. Compared to lots of 40k, Fantasy, and X-wing players.

You left out 3) How much do I get for my money?

There comes a point when, no matter how much you may like a game, the investment becomes too great for the amount of stuff, no matter how nice that stuff may be.

I could not bring myself to spend $600 on a few nights of getting drunk, and while I could, and have, spent $600 on miniatures it has generally been based on the amount of, well, stuff.

I am happy with spending $399 on the Mantic Kickstarter for Kings of War - I would not have been as happy spending $240 on '4 Tau Broadsides'. Plus, I can tell myself that I have helped improve a game that I enjoy and support.

I am happy with spending $300 on the Reaper Bones Kickstarter for much the same reason - and can look at the amount of stuff that I got in return, and feel no regrets.

I cannot do that with GW anymore - though I was tempted by the sale on the Sorcerer terrain that GW recently had, in part to encourage such behavior.

Heck, I have spent $600 on books over the last year, I am pretty sure - at $7 to $50 a pop, depending on book. In general I will get more use out of those books.

Your mileage will likely vary - but I like looking at the amount of stuff for my money.

The Auld Grump - with $600 all at once.... I might buy a canoe, to canoodle with my gal....

 Pacific wrote:


We need some of these other games (perhaps Warmachine is almost there?) to become successful enough that GW have to take notice - start to become competitive with their pricing again, and introduce some of the dynamism and creativity that made them king in the first place, rather than just rolling out tired old re-hashes of material that anyone who has been interested in the hobby for more than 3-4 years will have seen before. I think ultimately the virtual monopoly isn't good for anyone.. perhaps even GW themselves, if they are to compete with the vast number of draws pulling for younger people's cash these days.

To be fair to GW, they have been producing a lot of new and unseen units for their various armies. Not very good ones, admittedly (marines in armour wearing armour - really? Thats the best you could come up with?), but they are having a go.

 Pacific wrote:

The issue is that within the miniature wargaming hobby specifically, they are one of the most expensive.

The thing is though, they are not. As a game it is expensive, but as miniature wargaming hobby it's about the same as the others out there. As a game you need many more models than most. As a miniature wargaming hobby each of the minis are priced very similar to other companies of equal quality. It all depends on what you want. If you want a cheap to start skirmisher game, then there cheaper alternatives. If you want a larger scale game with lots of minis or you enjoy painting a large army then it works out the same. You could equally argue other games are overpriced because you can by a chess set for £10.

We are where we are with GW because players wanted bigger and better. I remember when GW had hardly any tanks. I also remember a "super massive mega tank battle" in WD one month to celebrate the release of the Russ plastic kit. At the time it was amazing. Now it is a normal 2k battle. It all depends on what you want, but ultimately GW is around the same price per mini as other minis of the same size and quality. You pay your money, you take your choice. I play lots of games myself and they all have pros and cons.

Anyhoo... Back on topic... Don't buy tat force for $900... buy this:

www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Titans/MARS-PATTERN-REAVER-TITAN-BODY-ONLY.html
www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Titans/REAVER-TITAN-LASER-BLASTER-ARM-ONLY.html
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Titans/REAVER-TITAN-GATLING-BLASTER-ARM-ONLY.html
www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Titans/REAVER-TITAN-APOCALYPSE-MISSILE-LAUNCHER-CARAPACE-ONLY.html

$902.13

Sorted.

Either that or the army will look like a bargain now

 Cruentus wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:

Long story short: Warhammer is a stupid investment.

In your opinion.

Those same $240 could go into what, one or two NFL football games, a couple nights out drinking, etc. All depends on what you value, and how much you have to spend on it.

You're right. It's been years since I've been to see some "exotic dancing". Instead I've been wasting my money on toy soldiers and the like.

To the OP - make sure you look into second-hand and online discounts to see if that will drop the GW bill by a decent chunk. It'll also take you a bit of time to build and paint, not to mention the amount of enjoyment over time you'll get from the gaming once you're done. It really comes down to whether it'll be worthwhile for you.