Natfka: No Finecast after 2016

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**PaperworkNinja**

Malika2 wrote:
I heard that GW will stop producing any kind of infantry sized models after 2016 and will only produce action figure sized models and Thunderhawks with spring loaded missiles.

The first release is supposed to be Interrogator-Chaplain Asmodai with Fallen-Smiting Action and kung-fu grip!

**Malika2**

I also heard something from a friend of a cousin who knows the retailer who sold 40k figures 10 years ago, who knows a guy who has somebody on his LinkedIn connections who works at GW about a large Khornate robot/deamon engine that yells "blood for the blood god" when you push the button on its back.

**willb2064**

Shame we have to wait until 2016

**master sheol**

At GD Australia 2012 Jes Goodwyn said that the goal of the miniature deisgn studio is...
To transform into plastic kits all the units in the codices (so YES they will make some plastic eldar aspect warriors too)...
All generic characters will be in plastic single sprue clampacks and only the Special Characters will be in Finecast...
I heard some voices about the finecast resin is gonna be replaced by FW resin at some point too...
I will wait and see if this is true...

**Dr Mathias**

I'm one of those people that didn't buy anything Finecast- even for models I really liked, such as the Dark Eldar court.

I have no problems with resin, I'm willing to fill bubbles and tweak things on garage kits and third party manufacturers... but no company the size of GW, with the resources of GW, should be releasing the stuff they did and declare it premium and 'new'. There are simply too many companies producing flawless resin castings for GW to excuse (rather, ignore) it for any reason.

I'd LOVE to know which braniac, specifically, that brought up the idea of resin 'Finecast' at a production meeting.

Good riddance.

**frozenwastes**

Every few months is an army release and if they add a commander type plastic kit to each release, there will be loads of them available before 2016 comes around.

Seems like a good idea to me.

**clively**

If true, then in all likelihood my DE will likely *never* have all of it's HQs delivered...

Now that I think about it, that's probably okay as most of them have crap rules anyway and the only two that matter (Haemi and Archon) are available.

Bring on the plastic!

**KirbyFan**

I don't understand why GW can't just fix its Failcast. I think the problem isn't necessarily having models made of resin, its that the QUALITY of the Failcast resin is so god awful. Other smaller companies are able to make satisfactory resin miniatures without much trouble, and these are pretty much all smaller companies with less resources and experience than GW.

What is it that is preventing GW from fixing their horrible excuse for 'high quality resin miniatures'? They can make tremendously good hard plastic miniatures (and they did metal great as well), but decent resin is somehow an impossibility for them? Are they under some obligation from satan himself to use resin that is pretty much inferior to what anyone else uses?

**Howard A Treesong**

The resin is cheap and they want to make it fast. If they had better quality resin and slowed production times or introduced better QC, then they would probably lose the saving from changing from metal. The plan was to use a cheaper material and charge more. Finecast just shows their eagerness to wring every penny out the business even at the expense of quality.

**Jehan-reznor**

It's 2013 that means still 2 1/3 years of Finecrap
but yes "This is good News!"

**Void_walker**

It's funny cause I've never had any problems when I've bought the finecast stuff, I generally find that the new models are okish while the older recasts have had a few problems.

Like all rumours regarding GW it's just a wait and see approach.

**angryboy2k**

Yodhrin wrote:

Plastic moulds cost a fortune; they're great for large-run stuff because the casting process is more economical, but it's just not feasible to do anything else

That's simply not true. With GW able to produce plastic moulds in-house I doubt very much that tooling for a single plastic model can cost more than £5000. The per-shot cost of the plastic is probably 50p or so. GW really doesn't need to sell that many units to get an ROI on these things, and it should be easy given that they're not exactly a niche player in this market.

**Kroothawk**

KirbyFan wrote:
I don't understand why GW can't just fix its Failcast.

You mean, like switching to metal?

I think it is more a thing of profit marges.
They think, that with rapidly shrinking sales and customer base, they should make 50-70$ per plastic sprue and book, with production costs of 1$.

**Redemption**

Kroothawk wrote:
Brother SRM wrote:
And what exactly is "suicidal" about only doing characters in resin?

That there will be no characters anymore after 2016, except the few in plastic.

Well, if the current Space Marine rumours pan out, all the new character clampacks are indeed in plastic instead of Finecast. Of course, Space Marines are the most popular army, so it could very well just be a one-time thing.

**Kroothawk**

You missed the 4 new finecast Apocalypse Space Marines with the break off components.

**Redemption**

Counting those with the Apocalypse release. :p

**Azreal13**

angryboy2k wrote:
Yodhrin wrote:

Plastic moulds cost a fortune; they're great for large-run stuff because the casting process is more economical, but it's just not feasible to do anything else

That's simply not true. With GW able to produce plastic moulds in-house I doubt very much that tooling for a single plastic model can cost more than £5000. The per-shot cost of the plastic is probably 50p or so. GW really doesn't need to sell that many units to get an ROI on these things, and it should be easy given that they're not exactly a niche player in this market.

Honestly, while its hardly a point worth debating, I think you've fairly substantially overestimated the cost of the plastic, unless we're talking a Land Raider or one of the Apoc kits.

But, as it stands, that only really serves to reinforce the point you're making.

**xxvaderxx**

Yodhrin wrote:
I find it odd that people are excited by this. OK, sure, some people hate Finecast, some hate resin of any kind, but think about how many really fantastic GW figs would never have been made if the range was plastic-only.

Plastic moulds cost a fortune; they're great for large-run stuff because the casting process is more economical, but it's just not feasible to do anything else, the only result of which will be no new niche models.

Not only that, but the newer plastic characters figures are a colossal pain to convert because of the way they chop up the digital sculpture to get the most efficient sprue layout and to accommodate all the flow-y cloaks and fancy poses in a medium that doesn't allow for undercuts.

Crikey I hope Kirby buggers off and we get someone in who's willing to push the company in a more creative and sustainable direction, or they'll be selling mono-pose prepaints before long.

Models are not niche, their rules are, and rules are very cheap to produce. Regarding cost, that is relative, small 1 character kits are not nearly as expensive as say a fully fledged 10 man unit, not to mention in the space they use for 1 infantry unit (2 large sprues) they can pool several individual characters, so cost gets reduced further, its not 1 mold 1 design. If anything they will make smaller runs of multiple 1 character molds and call it a day, they only thing it will use is more storage space vs the constant recasting and remolding, resin miniatures require, so cost wise in relatively large runs i imagine they are about the same if not cheaper. They have obviously run the numbers, they would not be pulling this if it was not convenient for them with such simple math behind it.

**xruslanx**

Kroothawk wrote:
KirbyFan wrote:
I don't understand why GW can't just fix its Failcast.

rapidly shrinking sales and customer base

citation needed.

**gorgon**

KirbyFan wrote:
I don't understand why GW can't just fix its Failcast. I think the problem isn't necessarily having models made of resin, its that the QUALITY of the Failcast resin is so god awful. Other smaller companies are able to make satisfactory resin miniatures without much trouble, and these are pretty much all smaller companies with less resources and experience than GW.

What is it that is preventing GW from fixing their horrible excuse for 'high quality resin miniatures'? They can make tremendously good hard plastic miniatures (and they did metal great as well), but decent resin is somehow an impossibility for them? Are they under some obligation from satan himself to use resin that is pretty much inferior to what anyone else uses?

IIRC, the point of Finecast is that they were able to repurpose their metal spincasting machines to churn out resin. Conventional casting methods and resin (like FW) would probably produce better quality casts overall, but not at the rate that GW was looking for. I understand their reasons for the switch...their failing was to put in better QC/QA processes.

angryboy2k wrote:
Yodhrin wrote:

Plastic moulds cost a fortune; they're great for large-run stuff because the casting process is more economical, but it's just not feasible to do anything else

That's simply not true. With GW able to produce plastic moulds in-house I doubt very much that tooling for a single plastic model can cost more than £5000. The per-shot cost of the plastic is probably 50p or so. GW really doesn't need to sell that many units to get an ROI on these things, and it should be easy given that they're not exactly a niche player in this market.

Yeah, that bit about metal molds costing a small fortune is decade-old information that still seems to float around the interwebz. I think just looking around at how many other mini companies are churning out plastic now says a lot. Cripes, GW made plastic molds for things like LOTR Easterlings, one-and-done Dreadfleet, etc...clearly it can't cost them that much anymore.

**Zappit**

We'll probably get more snap fit models, like the Dark Vengeance kit. That would actually work for characters, which have had the same poses forever, anyway.

**Azazelx**

master sheol wrote:
At GD Australia 2012 Jes Goodwyn said that the goal of the miniature deisgn studio is...
To transform into plastic kits all the units in the codices (so YES they will make some plastic eldar aspect warriors too)...
All generic characters will be in plastic single sprue clampacks and only the Special Characters will be in Finecast...
I heard some voices about the finecast resin is gonna be replaced by FW resin at some point too...
I will wait and see if this is true...

This was mentioned as a long-term goal for the company as far back as.. gak.. 1989 or so? - for everything to be in plastic.

**Pacific**

Firstly, I think it's kind of sad that everyone is rejoicing regarding this, and says a lot about the reception of Finecast since has been released. As good as plastic has become (and GW's is some of the best), it is not capable of the same level of detail as resin or metal. There are also issues of design (the oft-mentioned undercuts) which will constrain the sculptors to go down certain paths. There are times when resin/metal is the best choice to carry an aesthetic, and this will no longer be an option.

As for the reasons for it (if it turns out to be true) I'm presuming this will simultaneously reduce production costs - there will be a narrowing of each range - while I'm guessing this means that the production trollz in Lenton are going to have to start looking for work at some point

**angryboy2k**

Pacific wrote:
Firstly, I think it's kind of sad that everyone is rejoicing regarding this, and says a lot about the reception of Finecast since has been released. As good as plastic has become (and GW's is some of the best), it is not capable of the same level of detail as resin or metal. There are also issues of design (the oft-mentioned undercuts) which will constrain the sculptors to go down certain paths. There are times when resin/metal is the best choice to carry an aesthetic, and this will no longer be an option.

I agree, though FWIW, I dislike resin because of the difficulty working with the dust. I've always loved metal miniatures and Finecast marked the beginning of the end of my GW collecting days. I agree that plastic is not suited to everything, but by the same token, Finecast is suited for nothing. I won't buy it, and I'll rejoice to see its end. I'm only saddened that it's not going to be phased out in favor of a return to metal.

Sadly, other companies are also going down the cheap route. PP's PVC plastics are awful, and of course Sedition Wars is made out of the same rubbish. I hate working with the stuff and view it as a total waste of money.

**TalkWargaming**

Full plastic? Everything?

Didn't see this one coming. I only have a couple of Finecast Models too after a hiatus from the hobby.

**TheDraconicLord**

I'll dance a jig on Finecast's grave if this proves to be true. It has very slowly been improved over the time, but the level of quality is still so sub-par when compared to the plastic kits.

Also, what limitations does plastic have that resin / metal doesn't? The new plastic kits are a joy to look at! The Cadre Fireblade, the new plastic Farseer and Spirit Seer, they are such excellent looking kits.

**Gutsnagga**

Ooooh, this is interesting.
I wouldn't mind a bit more plastic, I find it the easiest GW material to work with.
I am a little bit unsure as to whether this is a little bit too extreme even for GW standards, but nevertheless, food for thought...

**Backfire**

TheDraconicLord wrote:
I'll dance a jig on Finecast's grave if this proves to be true. It has very slowly been improved over the time, but the level of quality is still so sub-par when compared to the plastic kits.

Also, what limitations does plastic have that resin / metal doesn't?

Plastic moulds are hard, whilst metal/resin moulds can be soft, this places some limitations to sculpting as I understand it.

I have no strong feelings over metal/resin. I feel metal is generally bit better on small single miniatures like characters - also, metal minis have better resale value as paint is easy to strip out. OTOH, larger single kits are horrible in metal and I'd rather have them in Finecast or plastic.

**His Master's Voice**

The idea of full plastic range has been doing the rounds at GW for god knows how long.

It's not entirely a surprise by now to hear someone mention they'd like to shift their full production process to a single pipeline.

**Orinoco**

Pacific wrote:
Firstly, I think it's kind of sad that everyone is rejoicing regarding this, and says a lot about the reception of Finecast since has been released. As good as plastic has become (and GW's is some of the best), it is not capable of the same level of detail as resin or metal. There are also issues of design (the oft-mentioned undercuts) which will constrain the sculptors to go down certain paths. There are times when resin/metal is the best choice to carry an aesthetic, and this will no longer be an option.

What's sad is that finecost sucks because they're to cheap to actually make a good product. and with regard to plastic detail etc, have you seen the dark vengeance models? plastic has come a long way.