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 djones520 wrote:

Well, don't trouble yourself, because YOU'RE not. We are doing it ourselves. We asked to wear this uniform, we knew what the risks were. Stop treating us like victims.

The US citizenry paid for that uniform so, yeah, he is.

 dogma wrote:

 djones520 wrote:

Well, don't trouble yourself, because YOU'RE not. We are doing it ourselves. We asked to wear this uniform, we knew what the risks were. Stop treating us like victims.

The US citizenry paid for that uniform, so I'm not entirely certain you can paint yourself as a victim.

He never said he was a victim?

 dogma wrote:

 djones520 wrote:

Well, don't trouble yourself, because YOU'RE not. We are doing it ourselves. We asked to wear this uniform, we knew what the risks were. Stop treating us like victims.

The US citizenry paid for that uniform, so I'm not entirely certain you can paint yourself as a victim.

Erm... wat?

Re-read a couple posts back.

Edit: ninja'ed

Dogma's circular logic. He's saying I'm trying to play the victim because I took offense to being called a victim.

 djones520 wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
Yeah, I understand it's terrible and awful. I totally get that.

What I'm still having a problem with it is why we need to send our kids over there to get blown up to stop it.

Well, don't trouble yourself, because YOU'RE not. We are doing it ourselves. We asked to wear this uniform, we knew what the risks were. Stop treating us like victims.

So......have fun?

 djones520 wrote:
Dogma's circular logic. He's saying I'm trying to play the victim because I took offense to being called a victim.

That's not circular logic. You are playing the victim without attempting to do so.

 djones520 wrote:
Stop treating us like victims.

You're not victims, but you are employees of the US government. I have the right to express an opinion that our resources not be squandered in search of monsters to destroy, not when we have plenty of starving children of our own at home who yearn to be fed and clothed. When you say "we", the money and resources they didn't get so you could wear that uniform - They're also part of "we".

 pities2004 wrote:

He never said he was a victim?

Not explicitly. My edit of the relevant post better expresses my sentiment.

 djones520 wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
Yeah, I understand it's terrible and awful. I totally get that.

What I'm still having a problem with it is why we need to send our kids over there to get blown up to stop it.

Well, don't trouble yourself, because YOU'RE not. We are doing it ourselves. We asked to wear this uniform, we knew what the risks were. Stop treating us like victims.

Why would you act like that? I'm sure you'd rather not fight, and possibly die, in a conflict that you have no business of being in.

 Medium of Death wrote:

 djones520 wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
Yeah, I understand it's terrible and awful. I totally get that.

What I'm still having a problem with it is why we need to send our kids over there to get blown up to stop it.

Well, don't trouble yourself, because YOU'RE not. We are doing it ourselves. We asked to wear this uniform, we knew what the risks were. Stop treating us like victims.

Why would you act like that? I'm sure you'd rather not fight, and possibly die, in a conflict that you have no business of being in.

Because most soldiers and sailors that signed up will defend their country no matter the cost?

No matter the relevance?

 pities2004 wrote:
Because most soldiers and sailors that signed up will defend their country no matter the cost?

And this is where, finally, we start to see eye to eye, maybe.

I would not define anything about going to fight in Syria as "defending our country".

 pities2004 wrote:

 Medium of Death wrote:

 djones520 wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
Yeah, I understand it's terrible and awful. I totally get that.

What I'm still having a problem with it is why we need to send our kids over there to get blown up to stop it.

Well, don't trouble yourself, because YOU'RE not. We are doing it ourselves. We asked to wear this uniform, we knew what the risks were. Stop treating us like victims.

Why would you act like that? I'm sure you'd rather not fight, and possibly die, in a conflict that you have no business of being in.

Because most soldiers and sailors that signed up will defend their country no matter the cost?

Remind me again how going over there defends the U.S.

Ninjad

I am a United States Sailor.
I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America and I will obey the orders of those appointed over me.
I represent the fighting spirit of the Navy and those who have gone before me to defend freedom and democracy around the world.
I proudly serve my country's Navy combat team with Honor, Courage and Commitment.
I am committed to excellence and the fair treatment of all.

That's swell, but what's it got to do with Syria?

I will obey the orders of those appointed over me.

Sounds and awful lot like "I was only following orders..."

Get your bingo cards ready boys!

Woah...woah dudes...

Let's stick with having a debate on the policy direction that the US may or may not do... cool?

 Medium of Death wrote:
Sounds and awful lot like "I was only following orders..."

Get your bingo cards ready boys!

Nice, I needed B4. I've got a few hours left and already it's looking like I'll have a row soon.

Anyway, so far as the OP goes, I know I've argued in this thread pretty hard for isolationism but the truth is I still remain awfully conflicted about this. It really is a terrible thing going on.

 Ouze wrote:

 Medium of Death wrote:
Sounds and awful lot like "I was only following orders..."

Get your bingo cards ready boys!

Nice, I needed B4. I've got a few hours left and already it's looking like I'll have a row soon.

Anyway, so far as the OP goes, I know I've argued in this thread pretty hard for isolationism but the truth is I still remain awfully conflicted about this. It really is a terrible thing going on.

It is. A lot of the points raised against intervening are very valid. The decision to do something is not an easy one to make. But I feel between choosing to do something, and not to, action is better then inaction.

Would be interesting if there is a lack of action, to see if any survivors among the rebels will seek vengeance for the West condoning genocide. Perhaps they will smuggle chemical weapons to set off into the west.

Last time we had someone gasing his own people on this level., I'm sure everyone was in favour of invading.

not when we have plenty of starving children of our own at home who yearn to be fed and clothed

And why would that be important when its easier to let nature run its course? You can't feed everyone, nor is that a worthy goal.

Ouze wrote:That's swell, but what's it got to do with Syria?

If you don't get it, then they're just words to you.


My grandfather served in World War 2, and to his dying day was proud of the things he achieved, not for himself, but so that other men might live without fear. Without torture, without their children being murdered by a tyrant.

Doing the right thing is not always in one's national interest. It doesn't always make a huge profit. Men give their lives to do the right thing every day though.

Why? The answer is in the very document in which free men cast off the yoke of tyranny.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness."

 pities2004 wrote:
fair treatment of all.

This seems out of place.

 Mr Hyena wrote:

not when we have plenty of starving children of our own at home who yearn to be fed and clothed

And why would that be important when its easier to let nature run its course? You can't feed everyone, nor is that a worthy goal.

Trying to feel starving children is not a worthy goal? Bravo, sir. 10/10, I'm sure you'll get some bites.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BaronIveagh wrote:
Why? The answer is in the very document in which free men cast off the yoke of tyranny.

Yeah, specifically, our yoke - not everyone else in the worlds.

 Ouze wrote:

Trying to feel starving children is not a worthy goal? Bravo, sir. 10/10, I'm sure you'll get some bites.

Well, if preventing them from being exposed to poison gas isn't a worthy goal, then clearly feeding them wouldn't be either.

 Ouze wrote:

 Mr Hyena wrote:

not when we have plenty of starving children of our own at home who yearn to be fed and clothed

And why would that be important when its easier to let nature run its course? You can't feed everyone, nor is that a worthy goal.

Trying to feel starving children is not a worthy goal? Bravo, sir. 10/10, I'm sure you'll get some bites.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BaronIveagh wrote:
Why? The answer is in the very document in which free men cast off the yoke of tyranny.

Yeah, specifically, our yoke - not everyone else in the worlds.

Feed children, only to let them continue in the limbo of poverty. If your struggling to feed the people you have now, why on earth would any sensible race continue to contribute to a rapidly expanding population?

A better goal would be to maintain a sensible population limit, within reason, to assure as best a quality of life for everyone.

 BaronIveagh wrote:

 Ouze wrote:

Trying to feel starving children is not a worthy goal? Bravo, sir. 10/10, I'm sure you'll get some bites.

Well, if preventing them from being exposed to poison gas isn't a worthy goal, then clearly feeding them wouldn't be either.

/thread

 Ouze wrote:

Yeah, specifically, our yoke - not everyone else in the worlds.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness."

You do have a hard time with reading comprehension, don't you? It doesn't say 'Just Us 'muricans' it says all men. Everyone has those rights. Every where in every nation on this globe. Jefferson was right in that.

 BaronIveagh wrote:

 Ouze wrote:

Yeah, specifically, our yoke - not everyone else in the worlds.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness."

You do have a hard time with reading comprehension, don't you?

Youre using those lines? Just look at the rest of history after they wrote this. It doesnt even hold meaning to those who wrote it.
I still dont see the difference between poison gas and a bullet to a child, both can be equally horrible and painfull.

 BaronIveagh wrote:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness."

You do have a hard time with reading comprehension, don't you? It doesn't say 'Just Us 'muricans' it says all men. Everyone has those rights. Every where in every nation on this globe. Jefferson was right in that.

So we go in, save the men and leave the women behind? After all, it is only men that are created equal

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

 BaronIveagh wrote:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness."

You do have a hard time with reading comprehension, don't you? It doesn't say 'Just Us 'muricans' it says all men. Everyone has those rights. Every where in every nation on this globe. Jefferson was right in that.

So we go in, save the men and leave the women behind? After all, it is only men that are created equal

I think Family Guy put it best