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 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

Puscifer wrote:
Is it me, or have the points gone up to crazy levels for Marines?

A lot of the stuff just screams unusable because of the points imo.

Marine armies are going to look tiny on the board.

Or is that because I just picked up SW and everything is uber cheap by comparison.

What rumours are you reading? The ones we've been reading the last few weeks say everything pretty much got cheaper.

It just seems expensive.

I'm not a Marine player, but they seem pricey for what you get.

CT balance this out though.

And They Shall Know No Fear is worth a few points I reckon over other races.

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
II've re-read the wargear options a few times now, and I am getting the impressions that independent character can't buy a normal storm shield unless they are in termie armour, it is only in the termie wargear section....

I'm hoping that is incorrect or incomplete, considering Captains can currently swap out their Bolt Pistols for Storm Shields.

ephrael wrote:

 SickSix wrote:
Glad I haven't purchased the Badab War books yet.

Thanks for posting.

Seriously looking forward to fielding all my LotD models.

What's up with the Badab War books? Did I miss something or did someone edit their post mentioning them? I was thinking about dusting off my stalled Carcharodons marines project and breathing new life into them next month.

Very end of the roundup I included a reply from FW where they state that there will be an FAQ for the Marine characters of theres, but there isn't a timeline on when.

I think Autocannon Predators just became redundant. The Stalker costs the same, is about as survivable, shoots ground targets almost as well and provides air defence.

 Vain wrote:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
II've re-read the wargear options a few times now, and I am getting the impressions that independent character can't buy a normal storm shield unless they are in termie armour, it is only in the termie wargear section....

I'm hoping that is incorrect or incomplete, considering Captains can currently swap out their Bolt Pistols for Storm Shields.

40k Radio didn't say everything, because they were focusing on what changed, but if they have access to them they should still have access to them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 NickTheButcher wrote:
Dreadnoughts don't get chapter tactics? Is this because of something in the lore?

More likely because their vehicles.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Perfect Organism wrote:
I think Autocannon Predators just became redundant. The Stalker costs the same, is about as survivable, shoots ground targets almost as well and provides air defence.

Stalker shoots ground targets at BS1 unless their skimmers so the value of that is really based on your meta more than straight numbers I think.

 Vain wrote:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
II've re-read the wargear options a few times now, and I am getting the impressions that independent character can't buy a normal storm shield unless they are in termie armour, it is only in the termie wargear section....

I'm hoping that is incorrect or incomplete, considering Captains can currently swap out their Bolt Pistols for Storm Shields.

DA ones do, so I would hazard a guess and say that C:SM will keep them or even better just go like DA did and not even replace your pistol.

ClockworkZion wrote:

 Vain wrote:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
II've re-read the wargear options a few times now, and I am getting the impressions that independent character can't buy a normal storm shield unless they are in termie armour, it is only in the termie wargear section....

I'm hoping that is incorrect or incomplete, considering Captains can currently swap out their Bolt Pistols for Storm Shields.

40k Radio didn't say everything, because they were focusing on what changed, but if they have access to them they should still have access to them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 NickTheButcher wrote:
Dreadnoughts don't get chapter tactics? Is this because of something in the lore?

More likely because their vehicles.

Good point.

They still don't really stand out as something I'll be bringing in my lists very often. Unless I missed something in the rumors, they don't really seem to bring much to the table.

How are people liking the suprer chainsword? Will it have any use?

(Also: why was the last thread closed?)

Dwindling OT I think, you could always just PM Alpharius and ask him though.

Can someone clarify this for me?

It said in this rumor update that Vanguard Vets come standard with Storm Shields. Is this true, or did I read it wrong? If so, whats the point cost for a basic Vanguard Veteran? Might be worth it if they come with shields standard.

MadmanMSU wrote:
Can someone clarify this for me?

It said in this rumor update that Vanguard Vets come standard with Storm Shields. Is this true, or did I read it wrong? If so, whats the point cost for a basic Vanguard Veteran? Might be worth it if they come with shields standard.

I've not seen that said anywhere. They're 19 PPM base (pistol/chainsword), 22 with jump pack.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

MadmanMSU wrote:
Can someone clarify this for me?

It said in this rumor update that Vanguard Vets come standard with Storm Shields. Is this true, or did I read it wrong? If so, whats the point cost for a basic Vanguard Veteran? Might be worth it if they come with shields standard.

I've not seen that said anywhere. They're 19 PPM base (pistol/chainsword), 22 with jump pack.

Ah, thanks. I found it again, it was quoted wrong on Faeit. My mistake.

Also, it says they are -1 ppm. Wouldn't that make them 24 base, not 19?

 Crimson wrote:
How are people liking the suprer chainsword? Will it have any use?

(Also: why was the last thread closed?)

I like it. It's a relic blade, with a few perks, and the price isn't crazy high. Speaking of which, now that we have actual relics, do we still get the old relic blades?

I'm a firm believer in the boys before toys philosophy, where I'd rather have more boots on the ground then some tricked out, blinged up characters. As such, some of the relic prices make me gag. The bolter and chainsword look not bad, and I might find a place for the others in specific situations.

This wasn't posted yet, right?

A lot of WD pics.

do we still get the old relic blades

I think so.People are talking about loading HG with Relic Blades to go alongside a Chapter Relic(s) bearing CM.

Hang on a minute...

If Dreads don't get CT, doesn't it mean that the IH CT and it's IWND rule for vehicles be useless?

Puscifer wrote:
Hang on a minute...

If Dreads don't get CT, doesn't it mean that the IH CT and it's IWND rule for vehicles be useless?

Probably not, as the IH Chapter Tactics explicitly says that it affects all the vehicles as well.

Anyone intending to run a tooled-out Chapter Master with a tooled-out unit of Honour Guard might want to rethink; it'd be a hilarious amount of overkill. Put the CM somewhere else and have two big threats instead of one gargantuan threat.

MadmanMSU wrote:
Also, it says they are -1 ppm. Wouldn't that make them 24 base, not 19?

Uh.... considering a vanguard veteran currently costs 20, no, no it wouldn't. It's not that hard to account for the fact that in the current base squad the sergeant costs 45 while others are 20, yet no one ever seems to

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Puscifer wrote:
Hang on a minute...

If Dreads don't get CT, doesn't it mean that the IH CT and it's IWND rule for vehicles be useless?

Probably not, as the IH Chapter Tactics explicitly says that it affects all the vehicles as well.

Anyone intending to run a tooled-out Chapter Master with a tooled-out unit of Honour Guard might want to rethink; it'd be a hilarious amount of overkill. Put the CM somewhere else and have two big threats instead of one gargantuan threat.

Ahhh, thanks for that.

Also... I agree with the splitting up of the CM and HG.

MadmanMSU wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

MadmanMSU wrote:
Can someone clarify this for me?

It said in this rumor update that Vanguard Vets come standard with Storm Shields. Is this true, or did I read it wrong? If so, whats the point cost for a basic Vanguard Veteran? Might be worth it if they come with shields standard.

I've not seen that said anywhere. They're 19 PPM base (pistol/chainsword), 22 with jump pack.

Ah, thanks. I found it again, it was quoted wrong on Faeit. My mistake.

Also, it says they are -1 ppm. Wouldn't that make them 24 base, not 19?

They're currently 20 base, and the Jump packs are sold seperately.

ClockworkZion wrote:

Perfect Organism wrote:
I think Autocannon Predators just became redundant. The Stalker costs the same, is about as survivable, shoots ground targets almost as well and provides air defence.

Stalker shoots ground targets at BS1 unless their skimmers so the value of that is really based on your meta more than straight numbers I think.

The Stalker gives you the option of four twin-linked shots at BS1 or eight shots at BS1 split between two targets vs. the Predator's two shots at BS4. That's almost the same number of hits on average, even when it's firing snap shots. Against skimmers, the stalker is significantly better and against aircraft it's obviously far superior. Even if your opponent doesn't field any fliers or skimmers, it's still an OK light tank. The only real advantage the predator has is the ability to be upgraded.

 tvih wrote:

MadmanMSU wrote:
Also, it says they are -1 ppm. Wouldn't that make them 24 base, not 19?

Uh.... considering a vanguard veteran currently costs 20, no, no it wouldn't. It's not that hard to account for the fact that in the current base squad the sergeant costs 45 while others are 20, yet no one ever seems to

I don't think of them that way, since you have to buy a sergeant in the base troop cost. Currently, you don't have the option of JUST buying a vet, you HAVE to buy the sergeant, so to say they are currently 20ppm is misleading, to my mind.

That said, are they moving to the DA codex style, where its a cost to upgrade the sergeant? I suppose what I'm asking is, whats the base cost of the initial 5 man unit?

Is there a benefit to take MSU Tactical Squads with a Special Weapon in each?

MadmanMSU wrote:

 tvih wrote:

MadmanMSU wrote:
Also, it says they are -1 ppm. Wouldn't that make them 24 base, not 19?

Uh.... considering a vanguard veteran currently costs 20, no, no it wouldn't. It's not that hard to account for the fact that in the current base squad the sergeant costs 45 while others are 20, yet no one ever seems to

I don't think of them that way, since you have to buy a sergeant in the base troop cost. Currently, you don't have the option of JUST buying a vet, you HAVE to buy the sergeant, so to say they are currently 20ppm is misleading, to my mind.

That said, are they moving to the DA codex style, where its a cost to upgrade the sergeant? I suppose what I'm asking is, whats the base cost of the initial 5 man unit?

It's not misleading when extra Vanguard Vets were 20 points a model before Jump Packs.

ClockworkZion wrote:

MadmanMSU wrote:

 tvih wrote:

MadmanMSU wrote:
Also, it says they are -1 ppm. Wouldn't that make them 24 base, not 19?

Uh.... considering a vanguard veteran currently costs 20, no, no it wouldn't. It's not that hard to account for the fact that in the current base squad the sergeant costs 45 while others are 20, yet no one ever seems to

I don't think of them that way, since you have to buy a sergeant in the base troop cost. Currently, you don't have the option of JUST buying a vet, you HAVE to buy the sergeant, so to say they are currently 20ppm is misleading, to my mind.

That said, are they moving to the DA codex style, where its a cost to upgrade the sergeant? I suppose what I'm asking is, whats the base cost of the initial 5 man unit?

It's not misleading when extra Vanguard Vets were 20 points a model before Jump Packs.

You cannot, in the 5th edition codex, buy a vanguard squad where each model is 20ppm. It's not possible. Which is why I was confused. That's all I'm trying to say.

My question is: whats the base cost of the Vanguard Vet squad in the new codex?

I was thinking of that; Crusader Squads could potentially have a 5-man squad in a Drop Pod with a special weapon, combi-weapon and 2 Power Weapons/Fists. Sure, it'd cost a fair bit, but even if you scaled it back, a special, combi and PW would only be 155 points with a Drop Pod (assuming Plasma Gun for 15 points and that the Sword Brother will cost 10 points to upgrade to). If you add 50 points you'll get 5 meatshields in as well. 205 points for 10 scoring bodies with a hidden Power Weapon, a special weapon and a Combi-weapon that can Deep Strike pretty much anywhere is a pretty solid start. Even if you take 4 of those units it's only 820 points, and you'll have Troops sorted. You'll have 40 scoring bodies and 950 points left to spend (assuming 1750 obviously), and you don't have to Drop Pod your Troops in first if you take stuff like Sternguard, Honour Guard or Ironclad Dreadnoughts in Drop Pods as well.

Am I the only one stoked about being able to take Command Squads with HQ choices other than Captains? I like Plasma Command Squads, and their biggest drawbacks were access to a worse banner (which they can now take the Relic one) and being limited to Captains). They seem a lot better now that I can snag one with a cheap Libby.

 wtwlf123 wrote:
Am I the only one stoked about being able to take Command Squads with HQ choices other than Captains? I like Plasma Command Squads, and their biggest drawbacks were access to a worse banner (which they can now take the Relic one) and being limited to Captains). They seem a lot better now that I can snag one with a cheap Libby.

Stick them with Tig for the Div re-rolls? Seems good.

That relic bolter will be rather nice on a bike or terminator character.