W40k : Imperial Guard 6th ed codex for early 2014 (updated nov. 8)

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**DarthOvious**

Ravajaxe wrote:
New Veteran ability allows charging out of transport.

Ahem, excuse me, can we induct some of your guardsmen into the Blood Angels chapter? We would very much like to do this.

**Insurgency Walker**

ph34r wrote:
MajorWesJanson wrote:
drop it to AV11,
Why? Such a change would be much more horrific for the fate of the Valkyrie, would break the established fluff around its AV, and would make your proposed cost changes overkill as it would be bad at that point already.

AV11 is where the Valk started its life. But I like the av12 over 11. Go figure

**martin74**

Ravajaxe wrote:
Here comes the first batch of rumors for 6th edition Imperial Guard codex. Natfka (faeit212 blog author) has received these tidbits. They are supposedly from a playtest document.

september, 2nd

* Company Command is now the only, real HQ you can chose but you can swap the Commander for a Lord-Commissar.
* Primaris Psyker are now Advisors, Bodyguards are gone .
* Only Cadian named characters in this document.

* Salamander is in as transport for CCS/PCS, open-topped Chimera with Autocannon, transports 6.

* Engineeers are Elite now (but 1-3 per slot), can buff squads in the vicinity (think Force Field and such).
* Priests must join a squad and won’t take HQ slots.

* Veterans, "get some lose some".
Size 5-10, can take 1 heavy wepaon or 1 special weapon per 5 soldiers.
Bastogne is gone but every Veteran Sarge can give orders now.
Can still take shotguns and get option to take pistol & CCW. New Veteran ability allows charging out of transport.

* Special Weapon and Heavy Weapon Squads are now 10 men each.

* Vendetta is gone, instead Valkyries can take the Vendettas-loadout for +45 points.

* Only one entry for Sentinels, no armor upgrade, closed cabin has no game effect but is just cosmetical.

* Thunderer/Destroyer is in.
Thunderer is a cheap Demolisher with nothing but a hull-mounted Demolisher cannon.
Destroyer is a dedicated tank hunter with a laser-lance weapon. Have a, hull-down“ rule that makes them extremely hard to kill if in cover, seem to be area-control units.

* There was talk about a new Cadian Veteran plastic set, 5 miniatures with all options.

* Heavy Weapon Squad will be repacked to include one sprue of standard Cadian infantry.
* Special Weapon Squads might get their own box with a new special weapon sprue (which is also used for Veteran box).

Not saying the body guards ever did much, but, in some small point tournaments I would sometimes have the extra points for them.

No Harker!? No MARBO!? One of two things. Either some one has lost thier mind or GW wants you to purchase a suplamental digital codex, IG: Catachan.

I like the salamander being back in. Even the vendetta load out to a valk is fine.

Seems like the IG are losing more than they are getting. Veterans really took a hit. I lose the ability to carry three special weapons, however, I can charge out a vehicle? Yeah, let me charge out with my I3 soldiers.

Not liking the changes at all.

**Vaktathi**

ph34r wrote:
MajorWesJanson wrote:
drop it to AV11,
Why? Such a change would be much more horrific for the fate of the Valkyrie, would break the established fluff around its AV, and would make your proposed cost changes overkill as it would be bad at that point already.

AV11 is what it was originally intended to be, it was AV11 for years as an Imperial Armour unit, it wasn't AV12 until they made it a skimmer, and provided extra fluff as to why it was AV12 and running as a Skimmer instead of a true flyer.

Really, AV12 should be exceptionally rare for a Flyer, that's full on medium tank armor.

**Quintinus**

After reading some of y'all's comments on how to "fix" (neuter) the Vendetta, I am thanking God that none of you are GeeDubs designers.

**HisDivineShadow**

Most of the suggestions are so hard a hit with the nerf bat they'd push the Vendetta to where the rest of the FA choices arein the IG codex. Mostly useless.

People want it to cost more, have weaker armor, be able to shoot less. And aapparently as few want all three. At that point, hell, let's just take it out of the codex?

What I think would be enough? Remove the Squadron option. A combined entry for sleekness maybe.

Every Dex has a 'new hotness' it seems a lot of people are just butthurt the Guards is a flyer.

**CommanderRyalis**

I agree with the need for more models being made in to plastics, it's really quite frustrating when most but your regular troops and your HS are metal and online.

One of the reasons I love the guard is the variety of models you could potentially field. I think having models for different regiments e.g. Vostroyans, Mordians, etc. really makes the army unique and I would much rather run any of these instead of Cadians (not too keen on Catachans), unfortunately I'm not optimistic GW will ever release them as all plastic. It seems, to me, that it would be to many SKU's they would need to keep inventory on.

**DarthOvious**

ph34r wrote:
MajorWesJanson wrote:
drop it to AV11,
Why? Such a change would be much more horrific for the fate of the Valkyrie, would break the established fluff around its AV, and would make your proposed cost changes overkill as it would be bad at that point already.

Perhaps keep AV12 for the Valkyrie but make the Vendetta AV11?

One thing is for sure if the Vendetta keeps AV12 then it will be increased points wise. It functions a lot like the Stormraven (troop transport & AV12), barring guns of course and thats 200pts.

**niceguyteddy**

No assault ramp though.

**lord_blackfang**

HisDivineShadow wrote:
Most of the suggestions are so hard a hit with the nerf bat they'd push the Vendetta to where the rest of the FA choices arein the IG codex. Mostly useless.

People want it to cost more, have weaker armor, be able to shoot less. And aapparently as few want all three. At that point, hell, let's just take it out of the codex?

What I think would be enough? Remove the Squadron option. A combined entry for sleekness maybe.

Every Dex has a 'new hotness' it seems a lot of people are just butthurt the Guards is a flyer.

What I want is for the Vendetta to not be the most shooty, the most resilient and the cheapest all at once. Go look at the Tau, Eldar, or DA fliers and then try to justify the Vendetta costing 30-50 points less than those.

**DarthOvious**

niceguyteddy wrote:
No assault ramp though.

Actually I didn't know that but I do now (don't play guard). Guard tend to want to shoot at things instead of assaulting them anyway from what I've seen. My friend who does play guard uses an Elysian drop troops list and just shoots peoples faces off when he eventually disembarks.

**Blacksails**

Vladsimpaler wrote:
After reading some of y'all's comments on how to "fix" (neuter) the Vendetta, I am thanking God that none of you are GeeDubs designers.

Because GW is doing such an amazing job at creating balanced units and finished rule sets.

Vendetta needs a nerf. I'm definitely on board with the AV11 club. An AV11 Vendetta would be pretty fine at ~150pts, other variables aside.

**Quintinus**

Blacksails wrote:
Vladsimpaler wrote:
After reading some of y'all's comments on how to "fix" (neuter) the Vendetta, I am thanking God that none of you are GeeDubs designers.

Because GW is doing such an amazing job at creating balanced units and finished rule sets.

Vendetta needs a nerf. I'm definitely on board with the AV11 club. An AV11 Vendetta would be pretty fine at ~150pts, other variables aside.

Typical, focusing on "muh feelings" instead of logic. Make it AV 11 OR make it 150. You would do well to see what happened with star cannons as a classic example of doing what you're suggesting.

**Vaktathi**

HisDivineShadow wrote:
Most of the suggestions are so hard a hit with the nerf bat they'd push the Vendetta to where the rest of the FA choices arein the IG codex. Mostly useless.

People want it to cost more, have weaker armor, be able to shoot less. And aapparently as few want all three. At that point, hell, let's just take it out of the codex?

What I think would be enough? Remove the Squadron option. A combined entry for sleekness maybe.

Every Dex has a 'new hotness' it seems a lot of people are just butthurt the Guards is a flyer.

Vendettas are almost never run in squadrons, you don't need to, it's not like you're going use the other FoC slots for anything else.

To be fair, at AV11, 150pts, and HS, it'd still be a solid unit, just not the auto-buy it is now.

150pts for an AV11 flyer with 3 TL lascannons, a transport capacity, extra armor, hover mode option and a special deployment option is still miles better than most other flyers and still very powerful. Just more appropriately costed, with flyer armor and in the right FoC slot for something with 3 long range, high S, low AP, twin linked guns.

**Blacksails**

Vladsimpaler wrote:
Blacksails wrote:
Vladsimpaler wrote:
After reading some of y'all's comments on how to "fix" (neuter) the Vendetta, I am thanking God that none of you are GeeDubs designers.

Because GW is doing such an amazing job at creating balanced units and finished rule sets.

Vendetta needs a nerf. I'm definitely on board with the AV11 club. An AV11 Vendetta would be pretty fine at ~150pts, other variables aside.

Typical, focusing on "muh feelings" instead of logic. Make it AV 11 OR make it 150. You would do well to see what happened with star cannons as a classic example of doing what you're suggesting.

Again, no. An AV11, 150pts Vendetta is still a great unit. See Vaktathi's post below. Right now, the Vendetta is an absolute auto buy. An AV11, 150pts Vendetta is still strong, but no longer the auto-include it is now, especially if it was no longer squadronable, or in the heavy slot, or both.

And I wasn't focusing on 'yuh feelings' (whatever that means). My post was entirely logical. GW is notoriously bad at writing rules and balancing even the simplest of things. Not saying the masses of us are any better, but they're certainly not much worse than what GW has been giving us. If you doubt that, go take a hard look at other games.

**HisDivineShadow**

Since this is wish listing now, I want wing mounted Battle cannons and a Vulcan Mega Bolter. Twin linked.

And cost 50 points.

It in seriousness, if the rest of the FA options weren't so over costed, Valks/Vendettas wouldn't be autobuy. I don't see anyone discussing that.

**ph34r**

Vaktathi wrote:
AV11 is what it was originally intended to be, it was AV11 for years as an Imperial Armour unit, it wasn't AV12 until they made it a skimmer, and provided extra fluff as to why it was AV12 and running as a Skimmer instead of a true flyer.

Really, AV12 should be exceptionally rare for a Flyer, that's full on medium tank armor.

This is true, however in recent history, in the majority of its time as a legal unit, and in 99.9% of all games that a Valkyrie/Vendetta has been fielded in it has been AV12, so for balance/testing reasons it would be quite an unprecedented leap. It would be like if GW decided Predators were AV12 (though lets be real they should be AV11 they are the exact same chassis as a rhino) or that Necron vehicles were all AV11/12 instead of AV11/13. It would be bad.

**Vaktathi**

ph34r wrote:
Vaktathi wrote:
AV11 is what it was originally intended to be, it was AV11 for years as an Imperial Armour unit, it wasn't AV12 until they made it a skimmer, and provided extra fluff as to why it was AV12 and running as a Skimmer instead of a true flyer.

Really, AV12 should be exceptionally rare for a Flyer, that's full on medium tank armor.
This is true, however in recent history, in the majority of its time as a legal unit, and in 99.9% of all games that a Valkyrie/Vendetta has been fielded in it has been AV12, so for balance/testing reasons it would be quite an unprecedented leap. It would be like if GW decided Predators were AV12 (though lets be real they should be AV11 they are the exact same chassis as a rhino) or that Necron vehicles were all AV11/12 instead of AV11/13. It would be bad.

Predators have fluff stating they have reinforced internal armor for that AV13, the Valkyrie had fluff justifying it's AV12 operating as a clumsier Skimmer (sometimes they mount heavier armor for close support and landing roles but their maneuverability and speed suffers). If GW wants it to be a proper flyer again, it should go back to AV11, or be AV12 and limited to running as a Skimmer (perhaps an option to field it as either/or). It's not like the Predator example really, as the Valkyrie specifically had fluff inserted justifying its higher armor and thus Skimmer status as opposed to an actual Flyer.

**streamdragon**

HisDivineShadow wrote:
It in seriousness, if the rest of the FA options weren't so over costed, Valks/Vendettas wouldn't be autobuy. I don't see anyone discussing that.

Flying vehicles are still all the rage what with the Snapshot thing, or needing Skyfire to deal with them. "Regular" AV12 tanks are far, far more vulnerable than an AV12 flyer. You'd have to drop the points on a *hound / sentinel quite a bit to make up just for that.

**Vaktathi**

Yeah, until the Hellound and variants start to look around ~70-80ish points, I'm not seeing much of a reason to look at them. Sentinels are just so naff it hurts, and you can't really cut down their cost too much more or it just starts getting weird. RR's may be something to look at, the DKoK Death Riders finally have decent rules so that's something to look at, but unless they get new models, they won't be getting much attention either.

**BrookM**

Just so long as Rough Riders aren't cut, I finally have some nice alternate minis and it would be shame if they were to be removed now.

**Malika2**

No large action figure kits?

**BrookM**

Yeah, still no spring-loaded missiles and water pistol action!

**Blacksails**

Vaktathi wrote:
I'm not seeing much of a reason to look at them. Sentinels are just so naff it hurts, and you can't really cut down their cost too much more or it just starts getting weird.

Well, I guess they could always move Sentinels as a part of platoons. Make them infantry support vehicles. Maybe even give them a rule to let them score or something. Then they'd at least have a distinct role, though there's no telling how effective of a role it'd be.

**Moopy**

niceguyteddy wrote:
No assault ramp though.

Anything that causes a S10 hit to each figure w/no armor save when it crashes must hate the unit they put inside it. Unless I'm taking TH/SS terminators there's no point in putting anything in a Stormraven, assault ramp or no.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Vladsimpaler wrote:

Typical, focusing on "muh feelings" instead of logic.

Being rude doesn't make your opinion valid.

**jaxor1983**

If the point cost of vendettas were to be raised any higher than around 150, they could easily be made irrelevant by replacing them with a couple hydras and a more efficient, higher armor heavy infantry/medium tank killer. And that would suck, since they take a while to glue together and stuff.

**Vaktathi**

Blacksails wrote:
Vaktathi wrote:
I'm not seeing much of a reason to look at them. Sentinels are just so naff it hurts, and you can't really cut down their cost too much more or it just starts getting weird.

Well, I guess they could always move Sentinels as a part of platoons. Make them infantry support vehicles. Maybe even give them a rule to let them score or something. Then they'd at least have a distinct role, though there's no telling how effective of a role it'd be.

That'd be a great move, though they'd still need to be a bit cheaper, 35pts for an AV10 open topped 2HP BS3 mutli-laser isn't a great buy. If they were 25pts and taken as part of a Platoon they'd be solid, with the armored ones at a 15pt upgrade.

jaxor1983 wrote:
If the point cost of vendettas were to be raised any higher than around 150, they could easily be made irrelevant by replacing them with a couple hydras and a more efficient, higher armor heavy infantry/medium tank killer.

There isn't one, that's part of the problem

The Vendetta is such an efficient tank killer, and so much more survivable, not to mention manueverable, that there's just no replacement. Hydras lack the ability to engage ground targets effectively or heavily armored (either AV14 or 3+/2+sv units) with much effectiveness.

**Blacksails**

Vaktathi wrote:
That'd be a great move, though they'd still need to be a bit cheaper, 35pts for an AV10 open topped 2HP BS3 mutli-laser isn't a great buy. If they were 25pts and taken as part of a Platoon they'd be solid, with the armored ones at a 15pt upgrade.

Yeah, a 25pts Sentinel with some sort of special rules and taken as an infantry support would make them at least workable. They'd essentially become cheaper, less durable (no 5++) warwalkers with less killy options. Especially if you make the weapons a touch cheaper (basically take 5pts off each upgrade in the current dex). It'd certainly make them interesting anyways and pull them out of the FA slot.

**Malika2**

BrookM wrote:
Yeah, still no spring-loaded missiles and water pistol action!

I've got three words for you: Spring loaded thunderhawk.

As for water pistol action...I think water games are more meant for Slaaneshi forces...

**xruslanx**

Vaktathi wrote:
HisDivineShadow wrote:
Most of the suggestions are so hard a hit with the nerf bat they'd push the Vendetta to where the rest of the FA choices arein the IG codex. Mostly useless.

People want it to cost more, have weaker armor, be able to shoot less. And aapparently as few want all three. At that point, hell, let's just take it out of the codex?

What I think would be enough? Remove the Squadron option. A combined entry for sleekness maybe.

Every Dex has a 'new hotness' it seems a lot of people are just butthurt the Guards is a flyer.
Vendettas are almost never run in squadrons, you don't need to, it's not like you're going use the other FoC slots for anything else.

To be fair, at AV11, 150pts, and HS, it'd still be a solid unit, just not the auto-buy it is now.

150pts for an AV11 flyer with 3 TL lascannons, a transport capacity, extra armor, hover mode option and a special deployment option is still miles better than most other flyers and still very powerful. Just more appropriately costed, with flyer armor and in the right FoC slot for something with 3 long range, high S, low AP, twin linked guns.

you're having a laugh mate. 150 points for an av 11 heavy support that can't start on the table? That would be taken less than armoured sentinals are at the moment, since you'd be castrating your heavy support which is where the goodies are.