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Hey everyone, I figured it would be a good idea to collect all the legitimate questions you find in the new Space Marine codex together into one thread. so they can be sent to tournament organizers and/or GW for use in making their FAQs.

So if you see legitimate arguments/discussions about rules questions in other threads, then please post the pertinent question (along with any relevant rules information) into this this thread. If a question is based on a loophole that 95% of players and judges are going to agree on the answer, then it isn't worth including on this list.

But most importantly: PLEASE DO NOT ACTUALLY DISCUSS/ARGUE THE RULES IN THIS THREAD. If you think a particular question has an easy answer that was missed by the person adding it into the thread, then posting about it ONCE is fine (and appreciated), but please do not engage in a back and forth discussion about a rule...start another thread on the topic if you need to do that.


Thanks!

(Apologies to Yakface for stealing his thread introduction).

WEAPONS
• Are vehicles that suffer an Immobilisation result from Grav weapons able to take a Cover Save or Invulnerable Save to ignore the effects?
• Do Immobilised vehicles that suffer an Immobilisation result from Grav Weapons lose 1 or 2 Hull Points?
• How do Grav weapons work with mixed armour save units?
• Do Grav weapons use the base save value or do they use the current Save value?

SPECIAL RULES
• Do Space Marine armies with the Black Templar Chapter Tactics follow the Space Marine or Black Templar column for Allies?
• Does Pedro Kantors special rule work with all units in the detachment, or only those with Chapter Tactics: Imperial Fists?
• Does the Forgefather special rule apply to both profiles of combi-meltas?
• When taking an additional Primary Detachment, must both detachments have the same Chapter Tactics, or can they be different?
• Pedro Kantor has the Crimson Fist symbol. Is he allowed in an Imperial Fist army?
• Can a Chapter Master of a Salamanders army, master-craft the Orbital Bombardment?
• Does a unit embarked in a dedicated transport that redeploys via the Scout special rule, count as having made a Scout redeployment?
• If the Skyspear Missile Launcher misses a FMC that is Swooping, and on a subsequent turn hits, does the FMC take a Grounding test?

UPGRADES
• Can a specific Relic (for example, The Burning Blade), be taken in both a Primary Detachment and Allied Detachment?
• Do Veterans who are upgraded to Champion/Apothecary keep their purchased wargear?
• Can a model trade in more than one weapon for a relic, or are they restricted to one relic (two, if they take the Armour)?
• As pistols and grenades can be used as Melee weapons, can they be swapped for a Special Weapon? Can Grenades be swapped for a Chapter Relic?

UNITS
• Are Terminator Captains considered to be "Captains" for the purposes of taking a Command Squad?
• Are Cenobyte Servitors a unit unto themselves, or are they part of Chaplain Grimaldus' unit? If they are a unit themselves, must Grimaldus start the game with them? If they are part of Grimaldus' unit, can he still join other units (similar to Tau drones, or Space Wolves wolves)?
• Do Sword Brothers count as Initiates for the number of Neophytes allowed in a Crusader Squad?

ANSWERED
As the first FAQ is out, I am moving the two answered questions here.
• Bikes have the option to take special weapons, yet do not have a close combat weapon or boltgun to swap. Do they need to swap out a weapon (if so, what) or do they ignore the weapon swap requirement? - Per the FAQ, they can swap their bolt pistol for a CCW.
• Can models in a Command Squad take upgrades? - Per the FAQ, yes.

May i be the first then to point out that the black templars section says:

"Some Older publications may refer to Codex: Black Templars. For all rules purposes, consider these refrences to instead refer to detachments from Codex: Space Marines using the Black Templars Chapter Tactics special rule."

'all rules purposes' is a pretty darn iron clad thing to say, meaning in my opinion that you are to use the black Templars ally chart.

Happyjew wrote:

But most importantly: PLEASE DO NOT ACTUALLY DISCUSS/ARGUE THE RULES IN THIS THREAD.

NickOnwezen wrote:May i be the first then to point out that the black templars section says:

"Some Older publications may refer to Codex: Black Templars. For all rules purposes, consider these refrences to instead refer to detachments from Codex: Space Marines using the Black Templars Chapter Tactics special rule."

'all rules purposes' is a pretty darn iron clad thing to say, meaning in my opinion that you are to use the black Templars ally chart.

Quoting for emphasis.

My only question is, if I take two seperate detachments from C:SM, one Primary, one ally, can I use the same relic in each one? I'm praying they FAQ this with a simple "No" just to avoid TFGs trying to make a case for it.

I am a little confused by Pedro Kantor. His special rules refer specifically to Crimson Fists detachments, not just units with Chapter Tactic: Imperial Fists. So,

Q: Pedro Kantors special rules specifically mention them working only with Crimson Fists detachments. Does this mean any unit in the same detachment with Chapter Tactics: Imperial fists?

Wow, so instead we start a rules discussion about the rules of the thread *face palm*

I Just wanted to point out that question has an easy awnser as the rules say is allowed to be pointed out once. As there is already a rules dicussion thread about what i posted. I'll leave a link to my post in that thread here.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/550588.page

And invite anyone who does wish to argue my point, to come do it there.

Grav weapons use the target's armor save as it's toughness, yes? So, if the armor save has been improved, (say, via a Jokaero) does it use the improved armor save or the base one on the profile?

Do any further rolls of six beyond the first with the Grav Weapons really strip two hull points, as the vehicle is already immobilised?

 Crimson wrote:
Do any further rolls of six beyond the first with the Grav Weapons really strip two hull points, as the vehicle is already immobilised?

This is not a discussion on the above and although I said the opposite earlier, re-reading the BRB FAQ, I'm inclined to actually say it would lose only one:

Q: If a vehicle suffers the effects of a Crew Shaken, Crew
Stunned, Weapon Destroyed or Immobilised result from the
Vehicle Damage table, does this automatically mean that it loses
a Hull Point? (p74)
A: No, unless it specifically suffers a Glancing or Penetrating
hit, or some other effect that specifies that a Hull Point is
lost.

Question still added.

Can command squads take special weapons, which are included in the box?

 Happyjew wrote:

This is not a discussion on the above and although I said the opposite earlier, re-reading the BRB FAQ, I'm inclined to actually say it would lose only one:

Q: If a vehicle suffers the effects of a Crew Shaken, Crew
Stunned, Weapon Destroyed or Immobilised result from the
Vehicle Damage table, does this automatically mean that it loses
a Hull Point? (p74)
A: No, unless it specifically suffers a Glancing or Penetrating
hit, or some other effect that specifies that a Hull Point is
lost.

Question still added.

I hope this is indeed the intent, but it is not what the rules for Grav Weapons actually say. It says clearly Immobilised result AND a hull point. And if you look at the damage table you see that additional immobilised results beyond the first result a loss of an additional hull point.

 Crimson wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:

This is not a discussion on the above and although I said the opposite earlier, re-reading the BRB FAQ, I'm inclined to actually say it would lose only one:

Q: If a vehicle suffers the effects of a Crew Shaken, Crew
Stunned, Weapon Destroyed or Immobilised result from the
Vehicle Damage table, does this automatically mean that it loses
a Hull Point? (p74)
A: No, unless it specifically suffers a Glancing or Penetrating
hit, or some other effect that specifies that a Hull Point is
lost.

Question still added.

I hope this is indeed the intent, but it is not what the rules for Grav Weapons actually say. It says clearly Immobilised result AND a hull point. And if you look at the damage table you see that additional immobilised results beyond the first result a loss of an additional hull point.

But the FAQ you just quoted says you don't lose additional HP from results on the damage table that didn't result from actual glancing or penetrating hits. So you only ever lose 1 HP per grav hit.

 Crimson wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:

This is not a discussion on the above and although I said the opposite earlier, re-reading the BRB FAQ, I'm inclined to actually say it would lose only one:

Q: If a vehicle suffers the effects of a Crew Shaken, Crew
Stunned, Weapon Destroyed or Immobilised result from the
Vehicle Damage table, does this automatically mean that it loses
a Hull Point? (p74)
A: No, unless it specifically suffers a Glancing or Penetrating
hit, or some other effect that specifies that a Hull Point is
lost.

Question still added.

I hope this is indeed the intent, but it is not what the rules for Grav Weapons actually say. It says clearly Immobilised result AND a hull point. And if you look at the damage table you see that additional immobilised results beyond the first result a loss of an additional hull point.

Did not know that. I don't actually have a copy of the codex yet, but have been lurking around lately as I'm on vacation right now.

I started a similar thread in general with 'possible faults' and I might have one to add:
The Command Squad (with Razorback and Chaplain) is pictured with a Plasma-gun.
The rules don't give him that option; is this an error in the photo or in the rules?

Too bad my thread got flooded with actual rules-discussion, hopefully you will be spared from that

I tried to find that thread but was having difficulty.

Don't bother, the biker problem and the Command Plasma-issue is the only thing that came out of those two pages.
Keep up the good work (Y)

Edit: Maybe the question should be "Why can't Command Squads take special weapons as depicted on the box?"

The Forgefather rule for Vulkan states that "Combi-meltas are treated as Mastercrafted" is this just for the meltagun portion or does it also work on the boltgun portion?


Probably more an errata question: Currently with RAW, Command Squads can both be mounted on bikes and be assigned a transport.

Yeah I'm really hoping the lack of special weapons options for the command squad was an oversight, if not my entire command squad is now useless except the apothecary model.

If you have 2 primary detachments (at 2000+ point games), can you choose 2 different chapter tactics, or can you only differ from chapter tactics between primary and allied detachments?

In other words, in a 2000+ game, could you basically have 4 different chapter tactics if you have 2 primary and 2 allied detachments, or just 2?

The stalker says if you split fire, you get 4 shots at 2 targets. Because of its special rule its at ballistic skill 2. Does this mean if it were to shoot at ground targets, the 2 clusters of 4 shots at 2 different things would be at ballistic skill 2 instead of 1 without interceptor?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Can pedro kantor lead an imperial fist army like some have implied?

Whos $*%&^#@ idea was it to make terminators (the only useable ones) MORE points??


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It says specifically under iron hands rules that their chapter tactics work on their vehicles, do they not work on other armies vehicles. I.E. if I am playing imperial fists, and have a land speeder with a heavy bolter, does it too get to reroll ones?

Happyjew, someone made a big list in my thread: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/550524.page#6027087
But I've only seen one real correct thing so far:
-Storm Raven seems to be the only vehicle left in the entire codex that has to pay for a searchlight.

Another "issue" is Command squads on bikes and Dedicated Transport

And my personal addition:
A lot of abilities refer to "units from this detachment". Double FOC is basically an additional detachment.
So my question: "Does Vulkan give the Master-crafted special rule to melta-weapons from Salamander-units in your additional detachment in games over 2000 points?"

Another one:
Calgar says: "if your army includes Magneus Calgar, his detachment may include up to three Honour Guard units, rather than the usual one allowed by a Chapter Master".
How does that work if you have Calgar and another Chapter Master; Can I take 3 or 4 honour guard?

Can a Terminator Captain take a command squad?

Captain and Terminator Captain are now separate entries, but command squad rules only state: "You may take one Command Squad for each Captain, Librarian or Chaplain in your army". It does not mention Terminator Captain.

Orock wrote:
The stalker says if you split fire, you get 4 shots at 2 targets. Because of its special rule its at ballistic skill 2. Does this mean if it were to shoot at ground targets, the 2 clusters of 4 shots at 2 different things would be at ballistic skill 2 instead of 1 without interceptor?

This is pretty easy to answer. If the Stalker is NOT firing at a Flyer/FMC, then it MUST snap shoot, as per the Skyfire rule. BS4 is used when firing at a single flying target; BS2 is used when split-firing between two flying targets; BS1 is used when firing at non-flying targets.

Honor guard say 1/per chapter master.

So if you have another chapter master you can have more honor guard.

Concerning the command squad, can you give 2 veterans a storm shield and then upgrade them to a champion or apothecary? (I ask because in the past such things were FAQ'd against so maybe?)

It says specifically under iron hands rules that their chapter tactics work on their vehicles, do they not work on other armies vehicles. I.E. if I am playing imperial fists, and have a land speeder with a heavy bolter, does it too get to reroll ones?

 Elric Greywolf wrote:

Orock wrote:
The stalker says if you split fire, you get 4 shots at 2 targets. Because of its special rule its at ballistic skill 2. Does this mean if it were to shoot at ground targets, the 2 clusters of 4 shots at 2 different things would be at ballistic skill 2 instead of 1 without interceptor?

This is pretty easy to answer. If the Stalker is NOT firing at a Flyer/FMC, then it MUST snap shoot, as per the Skyfire rule. BS4 is used when firing at a single flying target; BS2 is used when split-firing between two flying targets; BS1 is used when firing at non-flying targets.

But its NOT easy. It specifically says all shots made using the servo tracking are resolved as ballistic skill 2. So I am guessing it overrides the usual skyfire BS 1 that it shoots at ground targets with.

Orock wrote:
But its NOT easy. It specifically says all shots made using the servo tracking are resolved as ballistic skill 2. So I am guessing it overrides the usual skyfire BS 1 that it shoots at ground targets with.

Doesn't matter what BS you're using, a Snap Shot is resolved at BS1.

From the BRB FAQ:
Q: Can the BS1 of a Snap Shot ever be modified by special rules that modify the BS of a model’s Shooting attack (such as Space Marine Signums or Sergeant Telion’s Voice of Experience)? (p13)
A: No.

The only known exception is marker lights, because it says very clearly that it makes Snap Shots BS2. The rule above makes no hint if this.

 grendel083 wrote:

Orock wrote:
But its NOT easy. It specifically says all shots made using the servo tracking are resolved as ballistic skill 2. So I am guessing it overrides the usual skyfire BS 1 that it shoots at ground targets with.

Doesn't matter what BS you're using, a Snap Shot is resolved at BS1.

From the BRB FAQ:
Q: Can the BS1 of a Snap Shot ever be modified by special rules that modify the BS of a model’s Shooting attack (such as Space Marine Signums or Sergeant Telion’s Voice of Experience)? (p13)
A: No.

The only known exception is marker lights, because it says very clearly that it makes Snap Shots BS2. The rule above makes no hint if this.

I have a feeling the faq is going to come down to GW marketing rather than rules lawyers. "hey jim, how is that new space marine tank selling?" "pretty lousy mike, people say its too specialized to take against half the armies." "well we will just errata it so it shoots at bs2 against all split targets, and ignore our own crappy rules like usual." "good idea mike!"

Too specialized?
Skyfire hits skimmers at BS. The two top armies have a good amount of skimmer right now.

8 shots is still going to net you 1/2 hits on average, so it's still not entirely useless. It's also pretty damn cheap. But yes, I agree, the shots are made at BS1 because they're Snap Shots and thus effectively ignore the model's BS. The *MODEL* has BS2, but that doesn't carry over to the Snap Shot itself. It's the same story with other fixed BS values like the Signum and Telion (which I expect to be put back into the FAQ once it appears...!).

Orock wrote:It says specifically under iron hands rules that their chapter tactics work on their vehicles, do they not work on other armies vehicles. I.E. if I am playing imperial fists, and have a land speeder with a heavy bolter, does it too get to reroll ones?

Have a look at the vehicle entries for whether they carry the Chapter Tactics special rule.


(added) I don't really know if this is FAQ-worthy, but the following option seems kind of redundant to me:
"The Space Marine Sergeant or Veteran Sergeant may replace his boltgun and/or bolt pistol with a chainsword"
...why the bolt pistol?! There is absolutely no benefit to having the chainsword over the bolt pistol, and you screw yourself out of a) firing and charging, and b) swapping out both weapons in the wargear list as swapping for a boltgun isn't an option for the Melee and Ranged Weapons lists.

I notice that it's only this way for the Tactical squad - the Devastator squad entry makes more sense.