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 timetowaste85 wrote:
The guy owned 4 restaurants in town, he is/was the second richest guy who lived there. I was also 19 at the time and didn't want to make waves. As an actual adult now, I'd say something. And I believe in being early to work-I don't like arriving "on time," as I agree, that's the equivalent to being late. But, being required to be to work 15 minutes early, PLUS actually do 15 minutes of work off the clock every day...bad idea. I'd asked the manager (not the owner) about the legality of it, and her response was "do you really think YOU have a chance trying to sue HIM? Just deal with it."

Yeah, that's the whole reason I suggested speaking to the Department of Labor - they sue on your behalf. I mean, alternately you can accept his unlawful practices with a smile, give up a week to a week and a half of your year to work for your employer for free because of some bumper-sticker slogan wisdom as others have suggested - whichever makes you happier, but for me, my time has value and just as I don't add hours I my timesheet I didn't work, I expect to be paid for all the time I did, just like the law says.

 Ouze wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
The guy owned 4 restaurants in town, he is/was the second richest guy who lived there. I was also 19 at the time and didn't want to make waves. As an actual adult now, I'd say something. And I believe in being early to work-I don't like arriving "on time," as I agree, that's the equivalent to being late. But, being required to be to work 15 minutes early, PLUS actually do 15 minutes of work off the clock every day...bad idea. I'd asked the manager (not the owner) about the legality of it, and her response was "do you really think YOU have a chance trying to sue HIM? Just deal with it."

Yeah, that's the whole reason I suggested speaking to the Department of Labor - they sue on your behalf. I mean, alternately you can accept his unlawful practices with a smile, give up a week to a week and a half of your year to work for your employer for free because of some bumper-sticker slogan wisdom as others have suggested - whichever makes you happier, but for me, my time has value and just as I don't add hours I my timesheet I didn't work, I expect to be paid for all the time I did, just like the law says.

Nice passive-aggressive dig. That "bumper-sticker wisdom" has paid me a lot more money in my life than adding up fractions of hours ever would have.
People my industry in general have to show up early and get prepared to work. That includes doing things that could be defined as "work;" getting tools/materials out, filling necessary paperwork/permits, etc. As the foreman, I would be there even earlier than the men, doing my paperwork and planning work before they got started. All of those things are considered "work" and they are done by people who care about their job and want to succeed. I have no use for someone who shows up a minute early and stands around with their hands in their pockets until start time.

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
People my industry in general have to show up early and get prepared to work. That includes doing things that could be defined as "work;" getting tools/materials out, filling necessary paperwork/permits, etc. As the foreman, I would be there even earlier than the men, doing my paperwork and planning work before they got started. All of those things are considered "work" and they are done by people who care about their job and want to succeed. I have no use for someone who shows up a minute early and stands around with their hands in their pockets until start time.

Do you understand that the idea that the employees caring about their job and want to succeed, while also wishing to get paid for working; are not mutually exclusive principles?

I mean, I have seen some outlandish arguments here in the OT before, but now we're literally arguing that when people spend time working at their job, who are wage employees, they should be paid for it. I truthfully don't even know what to say to that.

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
Nice passive-aggressive dig. That "bumper-sticker wisdom" has paid me a lot more money in my life than adding up fractions of hours ever would have.
People my industry in general have to show up early and get prepared to work. That includes doing things that could be defined as "work;" getting tools/materials out, filling necessary paperwork/permits, etc. As the foreman, I would be there even earlier than the men, doing my paperwork and planning work before they got started. All of those things are considered "work" and they are done by people who care about their job and want to succeed. I have no use for someone who shows up a minute early and stands around with their hands in their pockets until start time.

You need to understand the difference between putting in extra time, and being required to put in extra unpaid time by your manager. The former is a good practice for an employee looking to move up in the world, the latter is an illegal work practice.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ouze wrote:
I mean, I have seen some outlandish arguments here in the OT before, but now we're literally arguing that when people spend time working at their job, who are wage employees, they should be paid for it. I truthfully don't even know what to say to that.

Did you read the two minimum wage threads? Those things were incredible.

One story I enjoy telling is a kid was buying a bunch of stuff at the flgs and apologized because he was paying all in ones. He said it was all his mom had to give him for his allowance.

Second one is way old when I worked at a McDs. Was doing one of those stupid cheap hamburger sales where everyone is coming in and buy a half dozen of them per person. Kitchen is making them as far as we can, but you can only do it so fast because of grill space and cook times. Manager tells back that he needs more hamburgers and he needed them yesterday, so I yelled back that he should have asked for them yesterday. He pulls me off to the back lecture me on how I can't talk back to him in front of the customers because it makes him look bad. I tell him not to then not yell at us in front of the customers when he knows we're working as fast as we can.

 AduroT wrote:

Second one is way old when I worked at a McDs. Was doing one of those stupid cheap hamburger sales where everyone is coming in and buy a half dozen of them per person. Kitchen is making them as far as we can, but you can only do it so fast because of grill space and cook times. Manager tells back that he needs more hamburgers and he needed them yesterday, so I yelled back that he should have asked for them yesterday. He pulls me off to the back lecture me on how I can't talk back to him in front of the customers because it makes him look bad. I tell him not to then not yell at us in front of the customers when he knows we're working as fast as we can.

When I worked at McD's, (back when dinosaurs roamed the earth) the day my manager chose to train me on grill was the day of one of these sales. I believed it to be coincidence (I hadn't even known the sale was on. I just thought that was how crazy lunch rush normally was...until 3 pm, still making burgers like some cartoon assembly line, with no signs of stopping! ) with no ill intent, until I asked him if he'd done it on purpose, some years later, when I was no longer working there. He just laughed and said "Yeah, I did that on purpose. But I bet if I took you behind the counter right now, you could STILL make a McD's burger faster than most people could say it!"

 Ouze wrote:

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
People my industry in general have to show up early and get prepared to work. That includes doing things that could be defined as "work;" getting tools/materials out, filling necessary paperwork/permits, etc. As the foreman, I would be there even earlier than the men, doing my paperwork and planning work before they got started. All of those things are considered "work" and they are done by people who care about their job and want to succeed. I have no use for someone who shows up a minute early and stands around with their hands in their pockets until start time.

Do you understand that the idea that the employees caring about their job and want to succeed, while also wishing to get paid for working; are not mutually exclusive principles?

I mean, I have seen some outlandish arguments here in the OT before, but now we're literally arguing that when people spend time working at their job, who are wage employees, they should be paid for it. I truthfully don't even know what to say to that.

I am a hourly-wage employee and always have, so I all under that category. Actually, the collective bargaining agreement I work under specifically states that we are to be in our work area, ready to work, before the shift begins. It doesn't matter if your work area is a half a mile from where you park or you have to walk up 10 flights of stairs, you're there before your shift begins with your tools out and ready to work. "Being ready to work" is all the things I just described and doing those, which under your definition is "work" and we are contractually obligated to do it. The DoL says that "washup time" and "clothes changing" are considered unpaid activities, but they are part of a work day. So where should your pay end and begin?

He had to show up 15 minutes before your shift (with no clarification of what that meant), which is a reasonable expectation. After the debate over this began, he went on to further explain that he had to do actual work, which is against the FLSA. I'll concede that if your shift starts at 4:00 PM and your boss has you come in at 3:45 PM and start taking orders from customers, that should be paid because it is a violation of the FLSA because you have started your primary work activity.

Ok, at this point I think I'm going to give up because I think you're missing the point intentionally. First, the OP did in fact clarify exactly what that entailed, pretend as you may that he did not. He said he was expected to come in and start working, but was not allowed to punch in until later. I mean, he posted twice on it, but you can just go on not seeing what you don't want to see.

Your example is of a food service worker who has to come in earlier to relieve someone else, requiring them to come in and prep for a while first. I agree that many jobs, indeed most jobs, include some pre-work prep time, but you don't make any actual argument as to why that time spent working should be unpaid - Why if a fry cook who comes in at 7:45 to get the fryer ready for the restaurant ready at 8:00 should not be paid for 15 minutes a day, 5 days a week, 260 hours a year, all unpaid labor. Why is it, precisely, that the employee is required to donate his time to the company without recompense?

Should firefighters be paid only when they're actually fighting fires? I.e there are 5 firefighters sitting around the firehouse playing cards, no fires that week, so no one gets paid? Please, explain the difference.

 Ouze wrote:
Ok, at this point I think I'm going to give up because I think you're missing the point intentionally. First, the OP did in fact clarify exactly what that entailed, pretend as you may that he did not. He said he was expected to come in and start working, but was not allowed to punch in until later. I mean, he posted twice on it, but you can just go on not seeing what you don't want to see.

Your example is of a food service worker who has to come in earlier to relieve someone else, requiring them to come in and prep for a while first. I agree that many jobs, indeed most jobs, include some pre-work prep time, but you don't make any actual argument as to why that time spent working should be unpaid - Why if a fry cook who comes in at 7:45 to get the fryer ready for the restaurant ready at 8:00 should not be paid for 15 minutes a day, 5 days a week, 260 hours a year, all unpaid labor. Why is it, precisely, that the employee is required to donate his time to the company without recompense?

Should firefighters be paid only when they're actually fighting fires? I.e there are 5 firefighters sitting around the firehouse playing cards, no fires that week, so no one gets paid? Please, explain the difference.

Read what I wrote above.
He stated that he had to show up 15 minutes early. After you jumped all over me, he further clarified that he had to work during that time. Yes, that is a violation of FLSA.
Firefighters get paid to sit around the firehouse because they are required to stay on the premises (i.e.- the firehouse). This is on-call time and is defined by the FLSA as "hours worked."

You hadn't made that concession at the time I made my post. I'm not saying you edited it in later because it was 2 seconds after I made mine, we clearly were posting simultaneously. In any event since we agree the law was broken, and that the correct response to civil law being broken is to speak to the regulatory body responsible for such (in this case, the Department of Labor) we now agree.

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 Ouze wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
The guy owned 4 restaurants in town, he is/was the second richest guy who lived there. I was also 19 at the time and didn't want to make waves. As an actual adult now, I'd say something. And I believe in being early to work-I don't like arriving "on time," as I agree, that's the equivalent to being late. But, being required to be to work 15 minutes early, PLUS actually do 15 minutes of work off the clock every day...bad idea. I'd asked the manager (not the owner) about the legality of it, and her response was "do you really think YOU have a chance trying to sue HIM? Just deal with it."

Yeah, that's the whole reason I suggested speaking to the Department of Labor - they sue on your behalf. I mean, alternately you can accept his unlawful practices with a smile, give up a week to a week and a half of your year to work for your employer for free because of some bumper-sticker slogan wisdom as others have suggested - whichever makes you happier, but for me, my time has value and just as I don't add hours I my timesheet I didn't work, I expect to be paid for all the time I did, just like the law says.

Nice passive-aggressive dig. That "bumper-sticker wisdom" has paid me a lot more money in my life than adding up fractions of hours ever would have.
People my industry in general have to show up early and get prepared to work. That includes doing things that could be defined as "work;" getting tools/materials out, filling necessary paperwork/permits, etc. As the foreman, I would be there even earlier than the men, doing my paperwork and planning work before they got started. All of those things are considered "work" and they are done by people who care about their job and want to succeed. I have no use for someone who shows up a minute early and stands around with their hands in their pockets until start time.

You're probably one of those guys who like works hard, is organized, has pride in his work, and generally ruins it for ther rest of us slackers. Mob with pitchforks-get him!

 Jimsolo wrote:
Nope, that would be farther south. But, pretty much once you get south of 64, all the strip clubs get kind of horrific.

Truer words have never been spoken.

The difference of viewpoint of that full 15 minutes before a shift being a requirement is that it is expected.
People understand that to allow some 10-15 minutes to get themselves ready is the smart thing to do.
Management requiring it is like saying "we think you are too stupid to figure this out so we make it mandatory".
Develop a system that helps people to succeed:

Toyota at their assembly centers pay people a bonus if they clock-in at least a half-hour before shift start but they are not required to work until shift start.
This is to ensure the team leaders can identify staff shortages early and can make arrangements.
Smart thing to do and makes people want to report in early, good visit time at the least.

 Talizvar wrote:
The difference of viewpoint of that full 15 minutes before a shift being a requirement is that it is expected.
People understand that to allow some 10-15 minutes to get themselves ready is the smart thing to do.
Management requiring it is like saying "we think you are too stupid to figure this out so we make it mandatory".
Develop a system that helps people to succeed:

Toyota at their assembly centers pay people a bonus if they clock-in at least a half-hour before shift start but they are not required to work until shift start. This is to ensure the team leaders can identify staff shortages early and can make arrangements.
Smart thing to do and makes people want to report in early, good visit time at the least.

Note the bolded part. In the poster's example we are talking about, they were required to show up early and work without clocking in.

 Gentleman_Jellyfish wrote:

 Ma55ter_fett wrote:
Saint Peter

"Sorry our policy is you have to show up 15 minutes early."

But isn't that illegal? Just because it's his policy doesn't mean it's not breaking any laws.

Maybe I'm missing something here

No, you are not missing anything. It is illegal and he should be reported to the Dept. of Labor.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 Ouze wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
The guy owned 4 restaurants in town, he is/was the second richest guy who lived there. I was also 19 at the time and didn't want to make waves. As an actual adult now, I'd say something. And I believe in being early to work-I don't like arriving "on time," as I agree, that's the equivalent to being late. But, being required to be to work 15 minutes early, PLUS actually do 15 minutes of work off the clock every day...bad idea. I'd asked the manager (not the owner) about the legality of it, and her response was "do you really think YOU have a chance trying to sue HIM? Just deal with it."

Yeah, that's the whole reason I suggested speaking to the Department of Labor - they sue on your behalf. I mean, alternately you can accept his unlawful practices with a smile, give up a week to a week and a half of your year to work for your employer for free because of some bumper-sticker slogan wisdom as others have suggested - whichever makes you happier, but for me, my time has value and just as I don't add hours I my timesheet I didn't work, I expect to be paid for all the time I did, just like the law says.

That "bumper-sticker wisdom" has paid me a lot more money in my life than adding up fractions of hours ever would have.

People my industry in general have to show up early and get prepared to work. That includes doing things that could be defined as "work;" getting tools/materials out, filling necessary paperwork/permits, etc. As the foreman, I would be there even earlier than the men, doing my paperwork and planning work before they got started. All of those things are considered "work" and they are done by people who care about their job and want to succeed. I have no use for someone who shows up a minute early and stands around with their hands in their pockets until start time.

This is why employers can get away with breaking the law.

On behalf of unscrupulous employers everywhere, thank you.

Easy E, to be fair, Scooty thinks requiring employees to show up 15 mins early is fair. My first post didn't make it fully clear that we were required to show up AND work 15 minutes off the clock. He agreed it was illegal and wrong after. As for reporting the guy, he couldn't keep employees (wonder why), and it was almost a decade ago that it happened. The thread is about working food/retail and awful experiences though, so 9 years ago is still a valid time of "awful job".

I also agree people should get to work 10-15 minutes early, but that should be to get coffee, hit the bathroom, talk, read, write a WH list, etc. Use it to unwind after the commute to work and get yourself mentally prepared. It should NEVER be for forced labor off the clock.

Almost had a fight with some lady's husband who decided to be the hero when I told his pregnant wife the bathroom was closed because of a health issue. :\

Why is it all the ugly women are the ones that stuff their money in their bra's. They go to pay and pull out this sweaty mess, ugh.

I've walked of a job when my manager told me pushing carts in was more important than helping a customer. In front of the customer \fascpalm. Home Depot *cough

general stupidity from management in general. Yes lets put a 90 year old lady in charge of electronic section or my personal favorite at gamestop asking about a particular game and the employee response is, "I don't know, I don't play video games"
>.<

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Easy E, to be fair, Scooty thinks requiring employees to show up 15 mins early is fair. My first post didn't make it fully clear that we were required to show up AND work 15 minutes off the clock. He agreed it was illegal and wrong after. As for reporting the guy, he couldn't keep employees (wonder why), and it was almost a decade ago that it happened. The thread is about working food/retail and awful experiences though, so 9 years ago is still a valid time of "awful job".

I also agree people should get to work 10-15 minutes early, but that should be to get coffee, hit the bathroom, talk, read, write a WH list, etc. Use it to unwind after the commute to work and get yourself mentally prepared. It should NEVER be for forced labor off the clock.

Agreed on all counts.

In college, I worked one summer at a supermarket. They paid us an extra dollar per hour for working Sundays. Here's the catch -- if your Sunday hours took you over 40 hours, they said we weren't entitled to overtime for those hours because we already getting that special rate. So you could work a 48-hour week (six 8-hour days including Sunday), and you'd get 48 hours at regular pay plus $8. Seemed shady to me, but what were we going to do? If we had been full-time help, we would have had to join the union and I'm sure the rules would have been different. But summer help didn't need to join the union.

At least the customers weren't miserable there. I worked two summers at a department store, and that was an eye-opener. I never knew how many miserable people there were, nor how many scammers and thieves. This was in a suburban, white-bread, white-collar neighborhood too, so it goes to show you that stuff crosses all lines.

 Frazzled wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Easy E, to be fair, Scooty thinks requiring employees to show up 15 mins early is fair. My first post didn't make it fully clear that we were required to show up AND work 15 minutes off the clock. He agreed it was illegal and wrong after. As for reporting the guy, he couldn't keep employees (wonder why), and it was almost a decade ago that it happened. The thread is about working food/retail and awful experiences though, so 9 years ago is still a valid time of "awful job".

I also agree people should get to work 10-15 minutes early, but that should be to get coffee, hit the bathroom, talk, read, write a WH list, etc. Use it to unwind after the commute to work and get yourself mentally prepared. It should NEVER be for forced labor off the clock.

Agreed on all counts.

Agreed as well. Apologies for being a DB.

I worked at the evil empire. I was on top of a tall ladder, wearing my company approved vest, and struggling to place a large heavy box on the top of a shelf. A lady walked over to the ladder, looked up, and shouted at me, "Do you work here!"

I finished putting the huge box on the shelf, calmly took of my vest, climbed down the ladder and looked her straight in the eye, "No, I don't."
I then walked off to the break room.

I should hav ebeen fired so many times, but I was too good at my job. Life lesson kids.

 whitedragon wrote:
Note the bolded part. In the poster's example we are talking about, they were required to show up early and work without clocking in.

What I was trying to say is that they do not make you work when clocked in until shift change. This is the exact opposite, which was my intent: some employers have more carrot than stick: go find them.

The 15minute "donation" is an employer that is feeling rather entitled but many salary staff such as myself regularly do not get paid for the extra time: nature of some jobs.
At the very least, adhere to the letter of the law of being there 15minutes before but dog it the whole time until you punch in.

If a person really feels ripped off, they can keep an eye out for an employer that pays enough that you do not mind or do not have to put up with this kind of thing at all.

It really boils down to: if you feel the employer is being "evil" and taking unfair advantage, then by all means, find a way to report them to whatever is the equivalent of the "ministry of labor" or vote with your feet.
"Keep your mouth shut, keep your job."

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 Ouze wrote:

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Also worked in a restaurant where the owner ordered you to show up 15 mins before your shift started, but not clock in until it started. He stole 15 mins from each employee, each day.

I don't feel sorry for you on this one. When I taught at my local union's apprenticeship school, that is one thing I would drill into new apprentices from day one: If you aren't at least 15 minutes early, you're late.

Did you read the part where he didn't get paid for this time in early?

Yes and I still don't feel sorry him. If you aren't early, you're late.

Yeah, that's some moronic bs right there, man. If you clock in late, you're late. If you clock in on time, you're not.

When you're getting paid by the hour, 15 minutes is a quarter of your wage. If you've got a salaried desk job, or a job that pays on commission, maybe your little go-getter aphorism would be appropriate, but advocating that people who get paid according to the clock essentially dock themselves 25% of an hour's pay everyday just makes you sound like a douchebag.

Not a DB, Easy E. You just missed a spot.

And Talizvar, I have no problem at all "donating" on my time sheet by arriving at 8:50 and clocking in at 9:00, when it's under my own decision to do so. Of course, my boss is buying me an iPad and a new car when mine craps the bed and pays my gas, so I'm not too bothered by throwing the company extra free time a lot. Catch more flies with sugar, and all that. I've never been told by this boss to be there, working before I clock in-I do it under my own volition. And yes, hourly vs. salary are two different can of worms: I'm going on salary starting in November, so I'll know the crushing grip of working 50 hrs and being paid for 40. The perks make up for it though.

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 Ouze wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
The guy owned 4 restaurants in town, he is/was the second richest guy who lived there. I was also 19 at the time and didn't want to make waves. As an actual adult now, I'd say something. And I believe in being early to work-I don't like arriving "on time," as I agree, that's the equivalent to being late. But, being required to be to work 15 minutes early, PLUS actually do 15 minutes of work off the clock every day...bad idea. I'd asked the manager (not the owner) about the legality of it, and her response was "do you really think YOU have a chance trying to sue HIM? Just deal with it."

Yeah, that's the whole reason I suggested speaking to the Department of Labor - they sue on your behalf. I mean, alternately you can accept his unlawful practices with a smile, give up a week to a week and a half of your year to work for your employer for free because of some bumper-sticker slogan wisdom as others have suggested - whichever makes you happier, but for me, my time has value and just as I don't add hours I my timesheet I didn't work, I expect to be paid for all the time I did, just like the law says.

Nice passive-aggressive dig. That "bumper-sticker wisdom" has paid me a lot more money in my life than adding up fractions of hours ever would have.
People my industry in general have to show up early and get prepared to work. That includes doing things that could be defined as "work;" getting tools/materials out, filling necessary paperwork/permits, etc. As the foreman, I would be there even earlier than the men, doing my paperwork and planning work before they got started. All of those things are considered "work" and they are done by people who care about their job and want to succeed. I have no use for someone who shows up a minute early and stands around with their hands in their pockets until start time.

Ouze is correct. Employers like that tend to see how much they can chip out of their employees a little at a time. I had a boss like that and I told him to stick it if he thought he was going to gyp me out of 15 minutes of pay at both the start and finish of my shift. He then went on to try to weasle out of paying overtime. If you don't stand up to that kind of thing you will get hosed most times. In situations like this, the Department of Labor is your friend. They will sometimes force the employer to pay back wages owed if there is proof of non payment.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Talizvar wrote:
The difference of viewpoint of that full 15 minutes before a shift being a requirement is that it is expected.
People understand that to allow some 10-15 minutes to get themselves ready is the smart thing to do.
Management requiring it is like saying "we think you are too stupid to figure this out so we make it mandatory".
Develop a system that helps people to succeed:

Toyota at their assembly centers pay people a bonus if they clock-in at least a half-hour before shift start but they are not required to work until shift start.
This is to ensure the team leaders can identify staff shortages early and can make arrangements.
Smart thing to do and makes people want to report in early, good visit time at the least.

I have a couple of books to suggest, The Toyota Way and Toyota Talent. Reading these helps a person understand how it is Toyota is such a kick butt company. The funny thing is, in 1950, they were trained in their methods by U.S. experts in lean manufacturing and Job Instruction and totaly ran with it while those methods were mostly ignored in this country. Their top manufacturing award is called the Demming, after the American who helped revolutionize the way they ran their factories and pull themselves out of the destruction of World War 2.

I'm a baker, I've been serving customers for years and years. I've found that 95% of people are polite and generally pleasant.

Now and then, you get an individual who is probably not a bad person, just having a really terrible day and you happen to be a stranger who they feel they can safely vent on because he's a customer, you're an employee, and he's always right or it's your ass. I never take it personally.

I once had a customer call me an idiot because his wife placed an order at a different bakery and he assumed it was mine. I said the order wasn't here, he said "Are you calling me a liar?!", I said "No, I'm saying you're mistaken." He called his wife and indeed it was the wrong bakery and when I asked what the situation was he said "You're an idiot, seriously" then walked away all pissed off. I didn't take it personally at all, he was probably very embarrassed.

PrehistoricUFO, you're a saint. Seriously.

 rubiksnoob wrote:
Yeah, that's some moronic bs right there, man. If you clock in late, you're late. If you clock in on time, you're not.

When you're getting paid by the hour, 15 minutes is a quarter of your wage. If you've got a salaried desk job, or a job that pays on commission, maybe your little go-getter aphorism would be appropriate, but advocating that people who get paid according to the clock essentially dock themselves 25% of an hour's pay everyday just makes you sound like a douchebag.

We have all moved on from this, but you missed the entire point that I was making. I can promise you that in the real world where people that get paid hourly, being early (or even on time) is a virtue that is sorely missing from the "millennial generation." If your shift starts at 6:00 AM, that doesn't mean strolling in the door at 6:00 every day and calling it "on time."

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Easy E, to be fair, Scooty thinks requiring employees to show up 15 mins early is fair. My first post didn't make it fully clear that we were required to show up AND work 15 minutes off the clock. He agreed it was illegal and wrong after. As for reporting the guy, he couldn't keep employees (wonder why), and it was almost a decade ago that it happened. The thread is about working food/retail and awful experiences though, so 9 years ago is still a valid time of "awful job".

I also agree people should get to work 10-15 minutes early, but that should be to get coffee, hit the bathroom, talk, read, write a WH list, etc. Use it to unwind after the commute to work and get yourself mentally prepared. It should NEVER be for forced labor off the clock.

Thank you. I get blasted for thinking people should be to work early, but I'm guessing most of these people have never had someone show up a minute before work begins and stand around shooting the breeze with their buddies while drinking their coffee instead of, you know, actually working. I never expected anyone that has ever worked for me to work for free, but I do expect them to work what they get paid for, which is to not to drink coffee and talk about football.

 Frazzled wrote:
You're probably one of those guys who like works hard, is organized, has pride in his work, and generally ruins it for the rest of us slackers. Mob with pitchforks-get him!

Yeah, pretty much, but I've been called worse.

 Easy E wrote:
Agreed as well. Apologies for being a DB.

It's cool, no apologies needed.

Extreme patience and the ability to deny what your smelling. Dealing with locals in the ME

*Sniffs Air* "Do you smell burning flesh?
Jihadin:No, and niether do you
But Im sure I do sme....
Jihadin:No you dont

You got me at a total loss of words there Hotsauce.