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 hazal wrote:


Make your own chapter =D

Or Lamenters if you for some reason like the color yellow. Or Knights of Blood which still has red but is primarily silver.

My Blood Angels are mostly black with red and white accents.

Martel732 wrote:
My fear is also based around Tau and Eldar crippling me by turn 2. Maybe these games have a lot more LOS blocking terrain. I'm betting burned down like a chump. I can't get out of their range, cover doesn't help, and I can't make enough saves.

A lot of the actual GW terrain is LOS blocking or has LOS blocking components. It is possible that they expect the game to be played with those in use, which would affect how those leaf-blower lists function.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Martel732 wrote:
Tau and Eldar firepower are both quite bonkers.

Something else to consider for the meta: Iron Hands land raiders.

Iron Hands landraiders... with an allied BA librarian inside casting shield of sanguinius to give them a non-stop 5+ cover safe on top of regen

after reading through this i have to say, its not about the points cost. do our guys cost more? yes. do we have a major disadvantage? probably. but its about how you play them and some good ol'fasion luck.
i never had a problem beating people with blood angels. its about how you play and how the dice falls. are there ways to make your stuff better? yes. is it harder? yes. Can you still win? most defenitatly.
too many people band wagon to the flavor of the month, then when thats up they jump to the next one. Learn better tactics!!!

 Wilytank wrote:

 hazal wrote:


Make your own chapter =D

Or Lamenters if you for some reason like the color yellow.

Strange you should say that... I do like the colour yellow.

I also know someone who sculpts shoulder pads. He's done a set of Blood Raven and Lamenters for both MEQ and TEQ.

 Lemartes12 wrote:
after reading through this i have to say, its not about the points cost. do our guys cost more? yes. do we have a major disadvantage? probably. but its about how you play them and some good ol'fasion luck.
i never had a problem beating people with blood angels. its about how you play and how the dice falls. are there ways to make your stuff better? yes. is it harder? yes. Can you still win? most defenitatly.
too many people band wagon to the flavor of the month, then when thats up they jump to the next one. Learn better tactics!!!

Didn't you just say it required some luck? That said, you can still win even with the worst army - it's just harder to do so of course.

 doubled wrote:
Alright can you make a viable competitive blood angels build in the current meta? It has bad match ups but can armour wall or mass assault marines/sang guard with fnp still make a run at top tables if played well?

Blood Angels have taken a bit of a hit. Its now our turn to be at the bottom of the pile and unfortunately we'll just need to be patient for our new codex.

The biggest hit we got was in relation to assault marines and because BA are all about assault marines it has hit us hard. Some of the following edition changes in the rules are the cause of this. You may be able to list more.

1) A nerf on cover saves going into 6th ed
2) More weapons/armies ignoring cover.
3) Overwatch
4) Random charge ranges
5) Greater focus on shooting
6) Eldar and Tau getting great boosts in shooting with their new rules.
7) Taking wounds from front and removing wounds from front of squad (Even if a full round of shooting doesn't wipe out your squad, the models you have removed will set you back an inch or two)

So in essence this makes it difficult for assault marines to get across the table.

Play to the strength of the army, if its viable. And no, not Assault troops with jump packs.

I think this would clock in around 1850

Captain, maybe a weapon

Troops.
Assualt Squad, no jump packs, Land raider
Assault Squad, no jump packs, land raider
Assault Squad, no jump packs, land raider

Fast.
2 baal predators, heavy bolter sponsons, twin assualt. These vehicles are fast, so move 6" and have a good time. Or move 12 and still fire one. Do they have power of machine spirit?

Heavy
2 Storm ravens, twin linked multi melta, twin assualt cannon, add the hurricane bolter side sponsons.

Not many list out there that can contest with 5 armor 13/14 vehicles, and/or 2 armor 12 flyers.

You could even run a landraider or 2 with multi melta and flame storm cannons.

Keeping volume of fire with assault cannons on storm raven, and taking heavy bolter sponsons on baal predators should also help.

You could also drop one of those troop choices/land raiders, pick up a cheap scout unit. Take a 3rd baal pred, or 3rd storm raven, and still have room to beef up the assualt squads if you wanted.

I know its a 5th edition codex, but it comes down to the person playing the list in most cases, like any army. Not the Codex/book itself.


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 warpspider89 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
My fear is also based around Tau and Eldar crippling me by turn 2. Maybe these games have a lot more LOS blocking terrain. I'm betting burned down like a chump. I can't get out of their range, cover doesn't help, and I can't make enough saves.

A lot of the actual GW terrain is LOS blocking or has LOS blocking components. It is possible that they expect the game to be played with those in use, which would affect how those leaf-blower lists function.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Martel732 wrote:
Tau and Eldar firepower are both quite bonkers.

Something else to consider for the meta: Iron Hands land raiders.

Iron Hands landraiders... with an allied BA librarian inside casting shield of sanguinius to give them a non-stop 5+ cover safe on top of regen

Dont think Allies, even battle brothers can ever ride in allies vehicles.

Iron Hands landraiders... with an allied BA librarian inside casting shield of sanguinius to give them a non-stop 5+ cover safe on top of regen

Sadly allies can never run in anothers transport.

Tsilber has a point, armor has been something BA has always done well even before our currently codex. The ability for fast tanks and cheaper transports is something opponents forget exist sometimes.

Myself I am a infantry/flier fan, the sad fact that as time goes on the premiums we pay on certain pieces of gear (JPs) makes certian units far too costly for their use (priests... save Corbulo). Our codex has reverted to its state in the waning of the pdf codex days, a underdog codex that can still cause upsets if it focuses on 1 or 2 very specific applications.


or abuse allies.

I'm currently monkeying around with Black Hands with allied BA. It's Mephiston and a bunch cyborg marine bikers. That's so metal! Well, and a fragnought.

Tsilber wrote:


Dont think Allies, even battle brothers can ever ride in allies vehicles.

That is correct. However, it does not make me wrong. An IC that joins a unit from a different codex becomes part of that unit. Therefore, a blood angels librarian could join an Iron Hands unit and ride with them inside of a landraider giving it, as well as any unit within 6 inches, a 5+ cover save through Shield of Sanguinius.

But who wants to pay for a BA libby? Yuck!

Someone who has invested hundreds and hundreds of points in armored vehicles and wants to ensure that they last the game.

 warpspider89 wrote:

Tsilber wrote:


Dont think Allies, even battle brothers can ever ride in allies vehicles.

That is correct. However, it does not make me wrong. An IC that joins a unit from a different codex becomes part of that unit. Therefore, a blood angels librarian could join an Iron Hands unit and ride with them inside of a landraider giving it, as well as any unit within 6 inches, a 5+ cover save through Shield of Sanguinius.

This interpretation of the rules is highly debated and straight up banned from many tournaments.

In a friendly game if someone tried to lawyer an allied character into a primary detachment transport, despite the rules saying "even battle brothers may not embark allied transports", that would be the last "friendly game" with said player.

 hyv3mynd wrote:

 warpspider89 wrote:

Tsilber wrote:


Dont think Allies, even battle brothers can ever ride in allies vehicles.

That is correct. However, it does not make me wrong. An IC that joins a unit from a different codex becomes part of that unit. Therefore, a blood angels librarian could join an Iron Hands unit and ride with them inside of a landraider giving it, as well as any unit within 6 inches, a 5+ cover save through Shield of Sanguinius.

This interpretation of the rules is highly debated and straight up banned from many tournaments.

In a friendly game if someone tried to lawyer an allied character into a primary detachment transport, despite the rules saying "even battle brothers may not embark allied transports", that would be the last "friendly game" with said player.

Yeah I was going to say this as well... probably not a great idea to write a list based on a shady rules reading and them go about expecting your opponent to allow you to do this sort of thing.

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

 hyv3mynd wrote:

 warpspider89 wrote:

Tsilber wrote:


Dont think Allies, even battle brothers can ever ride in allies vehicles.

That is correct. However, it does not make me wrong. An IC that joins a unit from a different codex becomes part of that unit. Therefore, a blood angels librarian could join an Iron Hands unit and ride with them inside of a landraider giving it, as well as any unit within 6 inches, a 5+ cover save through Shield of Sanguinius.

This interpretation of the rules is highly debated and straight up banned from many tournaments.

In a friendly game if someone tried to lawyer an allied character into a primary detachment transport, despite the rules saying "even battle brothers may not embark allied transports", that would be the last "friendly game" with said player.

Yeah I was going to say this as well... probably not a great idea to write a list based on a shady rules reading and them go about expecting your opponent to allow you to do this sort of thing.

I'm not sure what the big to-do is about an IC joining a battle brother squad and then using his abilities. Unless there's a rule stating the battle brothers cannot gain the benefit of said ability (such as with blood chalices giving FnP and FC to other Blood Angels only) , it's not shinanigans. I mean, we're living in a world where Riptides with drones are being joined by other ICs and it's totally legit. Where does it say that SoS will not work on Battle Bro units? Why is that the straw that would break the camel's back?

 warpspider89 wrote:

Tsilber wrote:


Dont think Allies, even battle brothers can ever ride in allies vehicles.

That is correct. However, it does not make me wrong. An IC that joins a unit from a different codex becomes part of that unit. Therefore, a blood angels librarian could join an Iron Hands unit and ride with them inside of a landraider giving it, as well as any unit within 6 inches, a 5+ cover save through Shield of Sanguinius.

If what you are saying was correct, there would never of been a reason for GW to write the rule about allies not being able to ride in anothers vehicle/transport. If you take Tigurius from the new book who has chapter tactics Ultramarines and joined him to a allied, imperial fist Dev squad. It does not mean that Tigurius is now chapter tactics Imperial fist. An Ic may join the allied squad. But that does not make him no longer an ally... Exploiting is the one thing not to try to base your army around.

 warpspider89 wrote:

Tsilber wrote:


Dont think Allies, even battle brothers can ever ride in allies vehicles.

That is correct. However, it does not make me wrong. An IC that joins a unit from a different codex becomes part of that unit. Therefore, a blood angels librarian could join an Iron Hands unit and ride with them inside of a landraider giving it, as well as any unit within 6 inches, a 5+ cover save through Shield of Sanguinius.

Ahh...I must have glazed over this one when reading this thread. Yeah...it's pretty clear that Battle Brothers cannot embark on an allied transport. It is an unfortunate place to draw the line in the sand, but GW must have their reasons.

Yeah you know, riptides taking drones counting as units being able to be joined is totally kosher, but this? Pfff gak that, that would be good!

I use BA as allies now, pinpoint meltas on an assault squad and 125 points for divination works as an ally detachment.

And any army can make it to the top tables if well played, it just requires much more skill.

As someone who only plays Orks but was quite envious of BA in 5th edition, I would make a list with 6 full squads of assault marines in Drop pods and take every template weapon possible including combis. Combat squad them after the drop and that's quite a few units in the Opp's DZ.

Add in 3 fragnaughts in Pods or 3 DS LR Redemmers.

I have no idea how you would deal with fliers but 5 plus units in DZ will not all die in one round of shooting against anything.

Some gunline players just don't know how to react against that many threats. Force your opp. to think, choose, make bad decisions, regret and second-guess themselves.

BronzeJon wrote:
Yeah you know, riptides taking drones counting as units being able to be joined is totally kosher, but this? Pfff gak that, that would be good!

It has nothing to do with that, it's just that the rules say that you specifically can't ride in your allies' transports. Otherwise I'd be considering running Trukks and Battlewagons with my Space Wolves.

Tsilber wrote:

 warpspider89 wrote:

Tsilber wrote:


Dont think Allies, even battle brothers can ever ride in allies vehicles.

That is correct. However, it does not make me wrong. An IC that joins a unit from a different codex becomes part of that unit. Therefore, a blood angels librarian could join an Iron Hands unit and ride with them inside of a landraider giving it, as well as any unit within 6 inches, a 5+ cover save through Shield of Sanguinius.

If what you are saying was correct, there would never of been a reason for GW to write the rule about allies not being able to ride in anothers vehicle/transport. If you take Tigurius from the new book who has chapter tactics Ultramarines and joined him to a allied, imperial fist Dev squad. It does not mean that Tigurius is now chapter tactics Imperial fist. An Ic may join the allied squad. But that does not make him no longer an ally... Exploiting is the one thing not to try to base your army around.

There seems to be a misunderstanding here.

To use your example: Tigerius can join a unit from an allied Imperial Fists unit as they are battle brothers and Tigerius has the Independent Character special rule. An independent character that joins a unit becomes part of that unit for all intents and purposes. So, even with Tigerius in it, the unit would be a unit of Imperial Fists Devastators.

It is the same way that DE HQ units were benefiting from Eldar specific spells like fortune for so long.

This carries over into other areas. If Lysander were to join an Iron Fists terminator squad, then he would become part of that squad. That Iron Fists squad could then embark on an Iron Fists vehicle as normal.


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 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

BronzeJon wrote:
Yeah you know, riptides taking drones counting as units being able to be joined is totally kosher, but this? Pfff gak that, that would be good!

It has nothing to do with that, it's just that the rules say that you specifically can't ride in your allies' transports. Otherwise I'd be considering running Trukks and Battlewagons with my Space Wolves.

Impossible because they are not battle brothers so ICs from one detachment could not join a unit from another and be able to ride in their respective transports.

We know that that's your opinion; people are just trying to point out that essentially nobody else reads the rule that way, so you should be aware that you won't be able to do that outside your own gaming group.

 warpspider89 wrote:

It is the same way that DE HQ units were benefiting from Eldar specific spells like fortune for so long.
.

Except there's a rule saying that a psycher CAN target his battle brothers with blessings. The example you're referencing doesn't hold up.

 Voidwraith wrote:

 warpspider89 wrote:

It is the same way that DE HQ units were benefiting from Eldar specific spells like fortune for so long.
.

Except there's a rule saying that a psycher CAN target his battle brothers with blessings. The example you're referencing doesn't hold up.

Not the old Eldar powers. The old Eldar codex powers (Fortune and Guide) specifically could only target Eldar units. What players were doing were allying Eldar and Dark Eldar, putting a Dark Eldar HQ with a Shadow Field (2+ Invul) into an Eldar unit and casting Fortune giving the Dark Eldar a re-rollable 2+ Invuln.

I had a funny thought. 20 Death Company with Jumppacks (probably a lot less, but the thought is funny) All given stealth and infiltrate by the new Captain Shrike and the Raven Guard. Give all the DC Bolters for a solid first turn salvo, followed by the turn 2 assault. Have to take Lemartes for the Chaplin bonus (since no other character without infiltrate can join the squad. Do you think this could be effective?

Effective: Yes.
The effectiveness you expect from something that is almost 900 points? Noooo way

Would be fun. I want to do this too except I will just use the bolt pistol/chainsword models I have.

Combine with the sanguinor for huge fun!

I think that death company without jump packs, 20 deep allied with Azreal from dark angels would be better. 3+ armor, 4++ invul, 5+++ FNP . Foot Slog them, people have to deal with them and they will draw a lot of attention off other stuff. Wont be 900 points, and yet still effective and survivable.