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The question is: How do you get a grav devastator to where you want it every time.

My short list of what works (to varying degrees)
-Landraider: Expensive and not super reliable unless you have so many threats the unit becomes somewhat redundant.
-Stormraven: Expensive like a landraider, +reserves problems, +interceptor...this is a bad option unless you are seriously spamming threatening flyers.
-Gate of Infinity: With Tigerius you have a 75% chance to get this power but you can only have 1 Tigerius and you still only have a limited chance to get it.
-Ahazra Redth (FW-IA10): You can trade chapter tactics for infiltrate. Not bad actually. With a MTO style list which white scars do really well this can be great. The bad is FW is not accepted by everyone and you are stuck with white scars centurions...
-Eldar Corsair Prince(FW-IA11): Give 3 units in your army deep strike. Fantastic, except the rule is somewhat vague and may not actually work on centurions. If there was a way to pull this off grav cannon centurions would be awesome.

So I like the concept of this unit and am finding if I can position them correctly I can erase nasty threats. The problem being that getting the position needed for this unit is almost impossible. I would love a drop pod for them but that didn't happen. I would like to call on the 40k think tank that is dakkadakka to fix this problem and find different ways to position these units so as to gain the position they deserve.

Ahazra Redth cannot be used right now RAW. RAI, he probably would not have allowed Centurions to Infiltrate seeing as terminators cannot Infiltrate and they are smaller and lighter than Centurions.

 Tyberos the Red Wake wrote:
Ahazra Redth cannot be used right now RAW. RAI, he probably would not have allowed Centurions to Infiltrate seeing as terminators cannot Infiltrate and they are smaller and lighter than Centurions.

In what way? According to the copy of FW - psyker FAQ, IA10, and Codex SM I have there is currently no reason whatsoever that this would be true.

 ansacs wrote:
The question is: How do you get a grav devastator to where you want it every time.

You walk them to the center of the board. Ideally in a piece of terrain bolstered by a TFC techmarine.
In the center of the board, their 24" Area of Influence is quite significant.

 labmouse42 wrote:

 ansacs wrote:
The question is: How do you get a grav devastator to where you want it every time.

You walk them to the center of the board. Ideally in a piece of terrain bolstered by a TFC techmarine.
In the center of the board, their 24" Area of Influence is quite significant.

To compliment this approach, I would also suggest fielding longer ranged elements to the army too.

Agreed. I think 9 cents is too much. One squad seems good

One of the better ways just hit me like a ton of bricks.

White Scars dev centurions, taking a LR as a dedicated transport get scout (provided you run with khan). A 12" scout move could put you in the centre of the board with your grav cannons, in a rather secure av14 vehicle.

Thats relatively viable, right? Sure it'll run you 500+ points, but it gets them there...

I'll be honest, the chance of Tigurius getting Gate of Infinity is high enough for me to be comfortable with it. I've been considering this as my chosen method of using Centurions, especially since I've already got locator beacon equipped pods all over the table anyhow.

Zambro wrote:
One of the better ways just hit me like a ton of bricks.

White Scars dev centurions, taking a LR as a dedicated transport get scout (provided you run with khan). A 12" scout move could put you in the centre of the board with your grav cannons, in a rather secure av14 vehicle.

Thats relatively viable, right? Sure it'll run you 500+ points, but it gets them there...

It's not like the land raider is useless either.
It still packs firepower, the ability to hide a damaged unit, and acts as mobile terrain.

I'm not saying land raiders are the bees knees, but they are not a burden of useless points

 labmouse42 wrote:

 ansacs wrote:
The question is: How do you get a grav devastator to where you want it every time.

You walk them to the center of the board. Ideally in a piece of terrain bolstered by a TFC techmarine.
In the center of the board, their 24" Area of Influence is quite significant.

Techmarines can only bolster terrain in your deployment zone now.

 ansacs wrote:

 Tyberos the Red Wake wrote:
Ahazra Redth cannot be used right now RAW. RAI, he probably would not have allowed Centurions to Infiltrate seeing as terminators cannot Infiltrate and they are smaller and lighter than Centurions.

In what way? According to the copy of FW - psyker FAQ, IA10, and Codex SM I have there is currently no reason whatsoever that this would be true.

Because I'm sure Ahazra Redth says to drop Combat Tactics - which isn't a rule anymore. RAW he doesn't work, FW needs to release an FAQ.

Shrike grants infiltrate to his squad, regardless of the RG CT.

BronzeJon wrote:
Shrike grants infiltrate to his squad, regardless of the RG CT.

But can only join a unit of Assault Marines pre-game. For other squads he has to join them after they are already deployed and thus they get no use out of Infiltrate.

In fact, Cents with grav cannons are a unit that can get into a dominant position. For this, I'd move them into the centre. This gives the unit symétrie de position able to take on all kinds of threats.
A Landraiders is particularly predestined to symétrie de position.

labmouse42 wrote:You walk them to the center of the board. Ideally in a piece of terrain bolstered by a TFC techmarine.
In the center of the board, their 24" Area of Influence is quite significant.

I agree they often do want to be in the center of the board. The problem being that against some armies they need to be further forward than the "center" to even be allowed to shoot something (ie Tau and IG) and against some enemies just being in the center is a death sentence unmitigated if the opposition is allowed to place second (ie daemons where if you go first there is a good chance your centurions will never get within 24" of a daemon prince but will for sure get within melee of their dog pile). Supplementing with long range guns definitely helps but DS or infiltrate would ensure proper positioning every game.

Zambro wrote:One of the better ways just hit me like a ton of bricks.

White Scars dev centurions, taking a LR as a dedicated transport get scout (provided you run with khan). A 12" scout move could put you in the centre of the board with your grav cannons, in a rather secure av14 vehicle.

Thats relatively viable, right? Sure it'll run you 500+ points, but it gets them there...

Not bad. Scout in a landraider takes care of a number of the problems. I am still not super happy about needing a landraider but that is more due to a personal dislike rather than because it is not a very worthwhile idea.

rigeld2 wrote:Because I'm sure Ahazra Redth says to drop Combat Tactics - which isn't a rule anymore. RAW he doesn't work, FW needs to release an FAQ.

Nice catch. It says chapter tactics in the title but combat tactics in the rule.

wuestenfux wrote:In fact, Cents with grav cannons are a unit that can get into a dominant position. For this, I'd move them into the centre. This gives the unit symétrie de position able to take on all kinds of threats.
A Landraiders is particularly predestined to symétrie de position.

In a sense they are. In the LR/centurions case they definitely are as they are tough to kill and can kill almost anything. In the case of the straight up centurions they lack the durability to truly control their space. Nothing fears to get into melee with this unit and there are too many units that can move up and kill ~2 centurions. Perhaps if you get a nice ruin mid field you can get them tough enough to fulfill this role however this is neither guaranteed nor even effective against many of the armies out there.

Ignore cover AP2 weapons are definitely a thing now. Heck even LotD can do ignore cover AP2 now.

What about taking a squad of Tac marines and using them as a "buffer"? Basicly wrap a 10 man squad in front of the Dev Cents to prevent an easy charge? Should the tac marines get charged, you can make the choice of entering the fray with the Cents or loading into the lr and beat feet out of dodge? Maybe put an ADL in front of terrain and the tacs behind the adl and the Cents in Terrain?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
which would give your tac marines SOME cover from regualr shooting and the cents some bubble wrap

Alexi wrote:
What about taking a squad of Tac marines and using them as a "buffer"? Basicly wrap a 10 man squad in front of the Dev Cents to prevent an easy charge? Should the tac marines get charged, you can make the choice of entering the fray with the Cents or loading into the lr and beat feet out of dodge? Maybe put an ADL in front of terrain and the tacs behind the adl and the Cents in Terrain?

That's just making an already expensive set-up even more expensive for a 'what if' though.

Storm Raven.
Move on 36", and deep strike out.

I made a bee-line at broadsides and it worked great*.

By great, I mean that the Dreadnought and Centurions survived the landing, and the broadsides wrecked the Storm Raven. The return fire resulted in the the death of the broadside squad, and me having dominate firepower and a counter assault unit on my opponents flank.

Attach shadow sun in full centurion squad and outflank for lulz?

Not too bad with 2-3 deployments giving you a decent shooting range.

not to mention stealth shrouding shenanigans

If you can use FW, just use Severin Loth, he gets 6 rolls on Telekinesis. Though I guess RAW, he can't be used under any of the existing chapter tactics, can he?

 Jimsolo wrote:
I'll be honest, the chance of Tigurius getting Gate of Infinity is high enough for me to be comfortable with it. I've been considering this as my chosen method of using Centurions, especially since I've already got locator beacon equipped pods all over the table anyhow.

I might have missed something huge in the new codex but, Space Marines don't have their own unique spells chart like they used to (like how Eldar and Chaos Marines do).

He does allow to pick from any of the 5 BRB lores and, allows re-rolls on every single one.

(Unless Gate of Infinity is a BRB power and I did miss).

I think gate of infinity is a telekinesis power now isn't it?

 ansacs wrote:


I agree they often do want to be in the center of the board. The problem being that against some armies they need to be further forward than the "center" to even be allowed to shoot something (ie Tau and IG) and against some enemies just being in the center is a death sentence unmitigated if the opposition is allowed to place second (ie daemons where if you go first there is a good chance your centurions will never get within 24" of a daemon prince but will for sure get within melee of their dog pile). Supplementing with long range guns definitely helps but DS or infiltrate would ensure proper positioning every game.

Woe betide GW makes people actually *think* about how to get unit A to location B - rather than just letting them appear wherever the feth they want and shoot with little downside.

Henshini wrote:
If you can use FW, just use Severin Loth, he gets 6 rolls on Telekinesis. Though I guess RAW, he can't be used under any of the existing chapter tactics, can he?

Nice, very good catch. Now we just need to see what FW does with him.

 Dakkamite wrote:
Woe betide GW makes people actually *think* about how to get unit A to location B - rather than just letting them appear wherever the feth they want and shoot with little downside.

Gasp! I made a thread to actually think about different ways to get them there. Now did you have insight on how to do so?

rohansoldier wrote:I think gate of infinity is a telekinesis power now isn't it?

Yep.

If I had to choose it would be storm raven and them doing a fly over to get in place.

But then again I like the idea of them dive bombing firing off gravity fields as they fall.

Since you are not likely to be in range turn one(especially if they know what grav weapons will do) might as well come in turn two safely.

If you want cents forward ASAP, go with a landraider. You'll have a 36" threat range in turn 1. Only in cases where you need to go for something deep backfield do you need more movement. But ok, if you can wait till turn 2 to fire with cents use turn 1 for either moving up the LR and keeping cents inside while shooting with LR, or if you need to cover a LOT of ground then speed LR 18" forward on turn 1, then next turn move 6" and belch out cents a further 6". Now you can hit something 54" away from the starting point.

My point is: You only need to use the more dicey storm raven if you really insist. It might move onto the board on turn 2...

Even it's quite static it will give you a very good firing position on most of the table.
Put a Landing pad at 3" of your deployment zone, T1 move your grav-Cent on top of it, T2 move to almost the center of the table. You start to have a very goog view of you ennemy, no?

Waaargh wrote:
If you want cents forward ASAP, go with a landraider. You'll have a 36" threat range in turn 1. Only in cases where you need to go for something deep backfield do you need more movement. But ok, if you can wait till turn 2 to fire with cents use turn 1 for either moving up the LR and keeping cents inside while shooting with LR, or if you need to cover a LOT of ground then speed LR 18" forward on turn 1, then next turn move 6" and belch out cents a further 6". Now you can hit something 54" away from the starting point.

My point is: You only need to use the more dicey storm raven if you really insist. It might move onto the board on turn 2...

The Raven is cheaper and a better overall unit to have though. As for it not coming onto the board, this is true, but the effort it is taking in this thread should show you never to rely on Cents anyway.

Well done. It is this post of all posts that finally lured me in to create a dakkadakka account. So first of all, congratulations!

Moving on, one of the problems I have noticed on this site is that tactics are often considered in a vacuum. Instead of putting such a heavy point investment into transportation for centurions it is reasonable to suggest that they don't need one as 5/6 missions at the moment are objective based. With a little pre-planning when deploying objectives, we can place our objectives in an area close enough so that our centurions are able to create a threat bubble around it and play the "area denial" game as the enemy tries to take it or decides to ignore it and focus on other objectives. It is situational of course, depending on the army you are playing against and what other elements your own army consists of, but I am simply trying to encourage a new way of thinking.

aussyanon wrote:
Well done. It is this post of all posts that finally lured me in to create a dakkadakka account. So first of all, congratulations!

Moving on, one of the problems I have noticed on this site is that tactics are often considered in a vacuum. Instead of putting such a heavy point investment into transportation for centurions it is reasonable to suggest that they don't need one as 5/6 missions at the moment are objective based. With a little pre-planning when deploying objectives, we can place our objectives in an area close enough so that our centurions are able to create a threat bubble around it and play the "area denial" game as the enemy tries to take it or decides to ignore it and focus on other objectives. It is situational of course, depending on the army you are playing against and what other elements your own army consists of, but I am simply trying to encourage a new way of thinking.

Except that in in 4 of those 5 objective missions the Cents aren't scoring and it is an expensive unit just to play defense with. Also, in 1 of those 5 missions you don't get to place the single objective being used, and in the other 4 of 5 you opponent is placing half of the objectives as well. Looking at it from the perspective of only your own objectives is just as shallow as looking at things in a vacuum IMO, in fact you are really just chucking your objectives into the vacuum really.

Remember as well that most of the things that truly threaten cents are firing from outside of that threat range so all you are doing is creating an expensive stalemate.

Also more importantly, welcome to Dakka