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The stuff I've seen has always been good

(but then If I was importing Gamezone stuff to the UK I wouldn't import anything I thought was rubbish so again it isn't definitive)

A bunch of their metal minis have needed some greenstuffing, like any large metal minis. I'm almost positive that until the very recent release of the DE resin minis, gamezone has been all metal, which makes me heavily question that poster's complaints.

I have owned over a hundred Gamezone models in the last few years; most of them didn't need to be filed let alone puttied to make them usable. Most are exceptionally cast and sculpted.

It is pretty astounding that a single old man shopkeeper managed to put together all that concept art and all those 3d renders in that video.

edit: the only problems I've had getting Gamezone miniatures is the recent plastics as there's a queue of people who preordered them.

Also as far as I'm aware Gamezone hasn't made any resin minis, or at least, none that I've owned.

Whilst they legally may be able to release an updated version of Heroquest in Spain I don't agree that they should, morally, especially as they are shipping to regions where someone else owns the rights / name.

I wouldn't be surprised to see efforts made by copywriter holders in other countries try to block distribution outside of Spain.

Who are you saying it offends morally?
-Hasbro? I think it's pretty clearly implied that Hasbro is the company that gave this the green light. Unless there's absolutely insane distribution rights, it must have been Hasbro.
-The company that has a current Heroquest RPG in the US? They hopped on the name the second the trademark lapsed. They may have legal rights to the name, but they're also a company that hopped onto an established name the second it came clear. Not sure they have any moral high ground.
-Games Workshop has no moral high ground on anyone. I like their minis and I like their games, but the way they run their company is repugnant.

Hasbro. I am not convinced that they have the greenlight from them. The impression I get is that at most they have had an informal chat with someone who works at the company but nothing officially greenlit. Hasbro have been quite litigious regarding protecting IP (and even names) in the past and I could easily see problems occurring down the line for GameZone if they don't have a written contract.

If Hasbro didn't greenlight it, then there's potentially legal issues. I know they haven't stated Hasbro greenlighted it, but I can't see any other way that they would have invested this much into a project without having that permission (and they have invested a decent amount into it).

Some good news: Recent stretch goals have only been $20,000 apart, compared to being $30-$40k apart before.

decker_cky wrote:
If Hasbro didn't greenlight it, then there's potentially legal issues. I know they haven't stated Hasbro greenlighted it, but I can't see any other way that they would have invested this much into a project without having that permission (and they have invested a decent amount into it).

I can see quite a few reasons that they might go ahead an launch this even if they aren't 100% sure of things.

I hope that isn't the case, and I hope that everything is set in stone, and I hope that someone at Kickstarter who approved this project really checked into things, but...we'll see!

I just hope we don't see sometime between Dec. 28, 2013 and Dec. 2014.

A LOT can happen in a year...

Honestly - it's a question Gamezone will have to address at some point (if they ever decide to communicate with us ).

Fans usually think of games ,which they like, as their own, and in this very one case with even more reasons. For both giants in our business this game is in no man's land: one of them has no interest in bringing it back to life, and the other simply can't. Don't think of us as strangers that want to take something from you, we are also players that want to give this game a second chance. Our intention is to develop and support it to get a viable comercial product, with plenty of expansions and additional features.

Interpretation of bolded part - Games Workshop has no rights to the game, and Hasbro has absolutely no interest in doing anything with the property.

If they really have no interest in the game, then licensing it would make sense. For Gamezone, even if they can theoretically release the game without permission (they can depending on how details are executed), it probably makes sense to license just to assuage backers, and avoid the risk of litigation.

As I said - Gamezone really does need to address this point or there will surely be some drop outs.

Unless they come right out and say they have the license from (X), there's no way I'll back this one.

A whole year for someone's lawyer to get involved?

No thanks.

Plus, what exactly is "Kickstarter Exclusive" on this?

Is there really any reason to not wait until they sell it via 'retail' in their own online store?

I'd bet the stretch goals won't be going to retail.
edit: or at least not at $150 US.

 Alpharius wrote:
Unless they come right out and say they have the license from (X), there's no way I'll back this one.

A whole year for someone's lawyer to get involved?

No thanks.

Plus, what exactly is "Kickstarter Exclusive" on this?

Is there really any reason to not wait until they sell it via 'retail' in their own online store?

I'm not entirely sure they would need a license, if the rights lapsed in Spain and now Gamezone owns the brand. So they'd license it to... themselves?

Shipping outside of Spain is entirely legal.

 Alpharius wrote:
Unless they come right out and say they have the license from (X), there's no way I'll back this one.

A whole year for someone's lawyer to get involved?

No thanks.

Plus, what exactly is "Kickstarter Exclusive" on this?

Is there really any reason to not wait until they sell it via 'retail' in their own online store?

I pretty much agree...

They really need to come out and say something, the longer they let this go the more the rumor mill is going to hurt them.

I'd really like to see the rulebook for this, from what I can find it's pretty damn close to the original ruleset. If thats the case I think this game might suffer a bit once people go out and start playing it. For example a few months ago I found my copy of Fireball Island. I have fond memories of this game from my childhood. I remember it being fun, strategic and difficult. When I played it a few months ago I thought the game was a boring roll and move game... Alot has changed in 20 years, rulesets generally haven't aged well. How well is this game actually going to stack up against Descent 2.0, the D&D Boardgames, Super Dungeon Explore, etc...

...not to mention MYTH, KD: M, Brimstone, etc.

In response to Judgedoug:

They only seem to own the rights to use the Heroquest name (within Spain only), not the game system or design which they are also using.

Curious what the first update will bring.

I have a feeling this campaign will be a bit of a roller coaster.

While I wasn't a fan of the blank cards (or the monster cards, unless they're not what should have already been in the box as it is), the other stuff is starting to make sense.

Far as I can tell, no cardboard will actually touch that board when all is said and done.

All scenery, tokens, or markers will be a 3D piece. That's actually pretty cool when you think about it.

Hopefully that means we'll see some outdoor pieces as well.

Going to be an interesting (if a bit bumpy) ride this coming month.

Aeneades wrote:
They only seem to own the rights to use the Heroquest name (within Spain only), not the game system or design which they are also using.

Can you tell us where you got this? I've seen stuff along these lines pop-up alot lately but I can't seem to find where they come from.

 Catyrpelius wrote:

Aeneades wrote:
They only seem to own the rights to use the Heroquest name (within Spain only), not the game system or design which they are also using.

Can you tell us where you got this? I've seen stuff along these lines pop-up alot lately but I can't seem to find where they come from.

I have to admit that I got it from this post on page 1 -

guru wrote:
looking at the source of the news, I think gamezone only has rights to use the "name" HeroQuest in spain, the game it will be a customized versión of heroquest to skip some copyright/rights

Is meant the new edition will not be with the consent of Hasbro / gw. Gamezone use the name only, because Hasbro or GW forgot to renew the license of HeroQuest name in Spain.

http://www.heroquest.es/index.php?topic=8728.0

Aeneades wrote:

 Catyrpelius wrote:

Aeneades wrote:
They only seem to own the rights to use the Heroquest name (within Spain only), not the game system or design which they are also using.

Can you tell us where you got this? I've seen stuff along these lines pop-up alot lately but I can't seem to find where they come from.

I have to admit that I got it from this post on page 1 -

guru wrote:
looking at the source of the news, I think gamezone only has rights to use the "name" HeroQuest in spain, the game it will be a customized versión of heroquest to skip some copyright/rights

Is meant the new edition will not be with the consent of Hasbro / gw. Gamezone use the name only, because Hasbro or GW forgot to renew the license of HeroQuest name in Spain.

http://www.heroquest.es/index.php?topic=8728.0

Hmmm interesting, I guess I missed that post on my initial read through.

Also worth noting that that Heroquest is NOT an active trademark in Canada the jurisdiction the KS is running out of having been EXPUNGED

http://www.cipo.ic.gc.ca/app/opic-cipo/trdmrks/srch/vwTrdmrk.do?lang=eng&status=OK&fileNumber=0676315&extension=0&startingDocumentIndexOnPage=1

(it's an active in the UK which would be the next most obvious KS location to use as well as the USA which may well be another reason they picked this KS)

Even with only the name trademarked, depending on execution, they could pretty much make the exact product without violating copyright.

That's already not the case though - look at the video. You can't use someone's copyrighted advertisement in your advertisement. I had forgotten about that when talking about licensing earlier, but that video could only be used legitimately with permission from Hasbro.

 judgedoug wrote:
I have owned over a hundred Gamezone models in the last few years; most of them didn't need to be filed let alone puttied to make them usable. Most are exceptionally cast and sculpted.

It is pretty astounding that a single old man shopkeeper managed to put together all that concept art and all those 3d renders in that video.

edit: the only problems I've had getting Gamezone miniatures is the recent plastics as there's a queue of people who preordered them.

Also as far as I'm aware Gamezone hasn't made any resin minis, or at least, none that I've owned.

Absolutely this.

I am having a difficult time beleiving grampa spaniard shopkeeper doing all this. To me, it questions the entire premise and validity of the assertion.

I also own gamezone minis and they are quite nice overall.

In other words, citations or yield.

As much as I'd like it, I don't know how its going to fair. Some clownass is going to throw the IP hammer at them and GW's law dogs are more then likely going to pee in the punchbowl.
This is a very streamlined project, though. LOOK at that. easy to read, good looking figures right there, and a simple streach goal list, that grows. MIght have to slip them a C note and see how it does.

Its getting the funding, thats for sure.

Also, where was all this legal furor when Stronghold games reprinted Survive?

That too is an old MB game. I didn't see numerous people line up questioning the validity of stronghold claim when they announced their game.

Oh. That's right.It didn't involve GW. So that means no knee jerk legal reaction.

Point being, is that this is not the first nor last time another company has licensed a game.from MB Hasbro. FFG redoing nexus ops, etc?

There was no announcement from Hasbro proclaiming these companies have rights to reprint.

Ya know why?

Because its none of ya gawd damn business. You either buy the game or you don't.

Bickering about legalities is the most pointless thing to discuss, other than talking about sports.

 Grot 6 wrote:
As much as I'd like it, I don't know how its going to fair. Some clownass is going to throw the IP hammer at them and GW's law dogs are more then likely going to pee in the punchbowl.
This is a very streamlined project, though. LOOK at that. easy to read, good looking figures right there, and a simple streach goal list, that grows. MIght have to slip them a C note and see how it does.

Its getting the funding, thats for sure.

GW literally has nothing to do with it, and they only barely had anything to do with the original Heroquest (they were contracted for character designs).

 judgedoug wrote:

 Grot 6 wrote:
As much as I'd like it, I don't know how its going to fair. Some clownass is going to throw the IP hammer at them and GW's law dogs are more then likely going to pee in the punchbowl.
This is a very streamlined project, though. LOOK at that. easy to read, good looking figures right there, and a simple streach goal list, that grows. MIght have to slip them a C note and see how it does.

Its getting the funding, thats for sure.

GW literally has nothing to do with it, and they only barely had anything to do with the original Heroquest (they were contracted for character designs).

I'll give it a week and see how it does, then throw them in some green. The figures are right up there with Gamezones standards, so theres no issue that they have the knowhow, and the logistics in there.

Really good looking stuff. THAT is how resin should be looking, by the way.

This is where I picked mine up from. Great for Mordheim, really amazing looking figures and the details are crisp.

http://www.frpgames.com/cart.php?m=product_list&c=1413


FYI they always have some great deals in the discount bin.

Aeneades wrote:
Hasbro. I am not convinced that they have the greenlight from them. The impression I get is that at most they have had an informal chat with someone who works at the company but nothing officially greenlit. Hasbro have been quite litigious regarding protecting IP (and even names) in the past and I could easily see problems occurring down the line for GameZone if they don't have a written contract.

Actually, they're very easy to work with as long as you do everything above board. Even buying a toy license for MLP (something you'd think they'd never ever offer in a million years) can be done for a $10k flat fee.

Look at all the hundreds of different third-party versions of Monopoly floating around. Again, all licensed out by Hasbro, and not the mark of a company that IP-guards everything.

Their primary concern is getting their cut and protecting the integrity of the IP, e.g. not letting it get used in a way that they feels damages the brand, or someone else already paid for the license. The times when Hasbro has had to C&D stuff have mostly been related to this, protecting another third-party licensee or hitting a situation where a third party is doing something with their IP that they don't feel like they can license without damaging the brand.

In this case, no-one else is doing anything with the IP, and it is trying to faithfully recreate the original, so no risk of IP damage there even if Hasbro did care.

Definitely a company you can work with rather than try to lawyer-dodge. This KS is headed to over 2 million easy and there is no way it is slipping under their radar.

Might do them some favours to have discussions earlier rather than later face a C&D and US/UK customs seizing and incinerating KS packages under counterfeit goods laws as soon as they cross the border (unlikely to happen but a valid concern nonetheless).

 judgedoug wrote:

 Grot 6 wrote:
As much as I'd like it, I don't know how its going to fair. Some clownass is going to throw the IP hammer at them and GW's law dogs are more then likely going to pee in the punchbowl.
This is a very streamlined project, though. LOOK at that. easy to read, good looking figures right there, and a simple streach goal list, that grows. MIght have to slip them a C note and see how it does.

Its getting the funding, thats for sure.

GW literally has nothing to do with it, and they only barely had anything to do with the original Heroquest (they were contracted for character designs).

Also this.Why is this so hard for people to grasp?

They did the minis and some background. All of which has been removed from this edition, including fimir.

Again, GW HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS AND IF THEY MADE CLAIMS OTHERWISE THEY WOULD BE LAUGHED OUT OF COURT.

Yikes - settle down there!

Gamezone themselves are sort of encouraging this type of talk by only kind of sort of hinting and talking about whatever it is they had to do in order to feel like it was OK to make "Heroquest".

Gamezone are now taking questions in the KS comments

EDIt scratch that they will only be answering PMs - really why not put the information out there what have they got to hide.