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Well, if they wanted some royalties in exchange for a legit US license this was a pretty stupid way to go about it, ham-fistedly deciding to kill an active kickstarter at its most popular point instead of sorting out a behind the scenes arrangement.

This thing could have easily got to $4m+, now it will most likely get less than half of that after spooking its audience. Way to shoot yourself in the foot if you're interested in a slice of the pie.

I'm not sure

A lot of people are nervy with the IP thing atm (before this kicked off)

If it comes out of this with a proper worldwide distribution deal it could really kick it on.

There was some banter earlier about it not being an 'official' attempt to shut things down.

Maybe someone's lawyer jumped the gun (and hopefully has been suitably flogged), maybe someone sent a tentative "hey, so, if there was, like, an IP violation, what might one maybe kinda sorta look into doing about it?" and KS went "WHELP TIME TO PULL THE PLUG UNTIL WE SORT THIS ONE OUT!".

Or maybe the civil negotiations mentioned weren't quite that civil and this is the follow up volley?

We may never know for sure.

These are the kind of shenanigans many were worried about - valid or not, leg to stand on or not, many companies are VERY conservative when it comes to Legal Sabre Rattling.

And given how hands off "It ain't on Us!" Kickstarter tries to be on many things, this is not a surprising turn of events at all.

At least, not to some!

It looks very much like KS just jumped the gun.

From the official statements, Gamezone was actively seeking a license from Moon Design (who own the US trademark for about ten years) to enable distribution in the USA (perhaps to help save people on shipping costs?)

Even if it fell through, since Gamezone owns the trademark in Spain, they can still make and sell the product from Spain.

At this point I quite literally have no idea why KS would have suspended the project (other than being super duper precautionary, which is a 100% justifiable position for KS, who is the king of "at your own risk")

Regardless, Moon Design, being a relatively minor company, will probably agree to let Gamezone use HeroQuest (tm) in the USA for a pile of cash. What company doesn't like cash?

That'll also enable Gamezone to actually distribute in the USA, which will hopefully mean cheaper shipping for it's US/Canada backers.

 scarletsquig wrote:
Well, if they wanted some royalties in exchange for a legit US license this was a pretty stupid way to go about it, ham-fistedly deciding to kill an active kickstarter at its most popular point instead of sorting out a behind the scenes arrangement.

This thing could have easily got to $4m+, now it will most likely get less than half of that after spooking its audience. Way to shoot yourself in the foot if you're interested in a slice of the pie.

If really hope that Gamezone presses Hasbro during this break as well. If they come out and say "we have a license allowing US distribution", that's one thing. If they can come out and say "We have licenses allowing distribution anywhere in the world", that's what people really want. If that happens, this will grow much bigger than it would have before in spite of the break.

decker_cky wrote:

 scarletsquig wrote:
Well, if they wanted some royalties in exchange for a legit US license this was a pretty stupid way to go about it, ham-fistedly deciding to kill an active kickstarter at its most popular point instead of sorting out a behind the scenes arrangement.

This thing could have easily got to $4m+, now it will most likely get less than half of that after spooking its audience. Way to shoot yourself in the foot if you're interested in a slice of the pie.

If really hope that Gamezone presses Hasbro during this break as well. If they come out and say "we have a license allowing US distribution", that's one thing. If they can come out and say "We have licenses allowing distribution anywhere in the world", that's what people really want. If that happens, this will grow much bigger than it would have before in spite of the break.

Technically they can sell to anywhere in the world (you'd import it from Spain). As for distribution, here's the status of the major players:

UK - HeroQuest (tm) owned by HasbroUK until 2015
US - HeroQuest (tm) owned by Moon Design since 2003 (after Hasbro and GW let both HeroQuest and Advanced HeroQuest lapse)
Spain - owned by GameZone
Australia - owned by no one, as far as I can tell (there's a "The Hero's Quest" registered as class 41 - Personal Development Program and another "Hero's Quest" registered as class 28 gaming/pinball machines but no "HeroQuest")

Assuming a distribution deal is struck with Moon Design for the USA that takes care of the US market, and AFAIK they'd be able to distribute it legally in Australia too. The UK would be the big one, but importing from Spain to the UK is probably easier than Spain to the USA (that whole Atlantic Ocean and all)

 scarletsquig wrote:
Well, if they wanted some royalties in exchange for a legit US license this was a pretty stupid way to go about it, ham-fistedly deciding to kill an active kickstarter at its most popular point instead of sorting out a behind the scenes arrangement.

This thing could have easily got to $4m+, now it will most likely get less than half of that after spooking its audience. Way to shoot yourself in the foot if you're interested in a slice of the pie.

Yes I think so too.. the only thing I think is whether, as Judgedoug says, its just KS being super-precautionary and following policy if there is even the question of IP infringement.

KS will clearly err on the side of extreme caution, so there's really no guarantee that this won't happen all over again, maybe?

I do hope they can iron this all out though - there's obviously a ton of interest in this one, which, sadly, makes these types of incidents more likely to happen, not less!

 judgedoug wrote:

Technically they can sell to anywhere in the world (you'd import it from Spain). As for distribution, here's the status of the major players:

UK - HeroQuest (tm) owned by HasbroUK until 2015
US - HeroQuest (tm) owned by Moon Design since 2003 (after Hasbro and GW let both HeroQuest and Advanced HeroQuest lapse)
Spain - owned by GameZone
Australia - owned by no one, as far as I can tell (there's a "The Hero's Quest" registered as class 41 - Personal Development Program and another "Hero's Quest" registered as class 28 gaming/pinball machines but no "HeroQuest")

Assuming a distribution deal is struck with Moon Design for the USA that takes care of the US market, and AFAIK they'd be able to distribute it legally in Australia too. The UK would be the big one, but importing from Spain to the UK is probably easier than Spain to the USA (that whole Atlantic Ocean and all)

The problem is that as far as we know, this issue with moon design is only in regards to the trademark issue in one country. It doesn't deal with copyright/ design-right related issues, which are much more likely to cause problems.

You couldn't go ahead and create a game that used a slightly tweaked version of the warhammer rules, while removing all artwork/setting specific and not risk legal troubles.
(See the case of Games Workshop vs Cyanide studios. Result : GW owns Chaos League brand, and received undisclosed monetary payment for ripping of Blood-Bowl. Even if they later licensed the proper version to them)
Or alternatively, create My little pony themed stained glass coins and not be hit by Hasbro
http://mlpforums.com/topic/53332-so-it-appears-hasbro-is-targeting-kickstarter-projects-now/

A copyright infringement of a Hasbro ip would remain even if Gamezone have the Spanish trademark.

But then they claimed that it would be compatible with the original quests, so they must necessarily be providing a way to use the warhammer / heroquest setting without consent from GW so ...
Even it they got around that somehow, It would likely still be a derived work, so GW and Hasbro would be entitled to some of the profits (all under uk/eu law) , so yet another legal issue

They posted this about 4 hours ago on Twitter not much to go on.

Gamezone Miniatures ‏@GamezoneMiniatu 4h

GZ-MD negotiations are going well #heroquest

 Culldarinal wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:

Technically they can sell to anywhere in the world (you'd import it from Spain). As for distribution, here's the status of the major players:

UK - HeroQuest (tm) owned by HasbroUK until 2015
US - HeroQuest (tm) owned by Moon Design since 2003 (after Hasbro and GW let both HeroQuest and Advanced HeroQuest lapse)
Spain - owned by GameZone
Australia - owned by no one, as far as I can tell (there's a "The Hero's Quest" registered as class 41 - Personal Development Program and another "Hero's Quest" registered as class 28 gaming/pinball machines but no "HeroQuest")

Assuming a distribution deal is struck with Moon Design for the USA that takes care of the US market, and AFAIK they'd be able to distribute it legally in Australia too. The UK would be the big one, but importing from Spain to the UK is probably easier than Spain to the USA (that whole Atlantic Ocean and all)

The problem is that as far as we know, this issue with moon design is only in regards to the trademark issue in one country. It doesn't deal with copyright/ design-right related issues, which are much more likely to cause problems.

You couldn't go ahead and create a game that used a slightly tweaked version of the warhammer rules, while removing all artwork/setting specific and not risk legal troubles.
(See the case of Games Workshop vs Cyanide studios. Result : GW owns Chaos League brand, and received undisclosed monetary payment for ripping of Blood-Bowl. Even if they later licensed the proper version to them)
Or alternatively, create My little pony themed stained glass coins and not be hit by Hasbro
http://mlpforums.com/topic/53332-so-it-appears-hasbro-is-targeting-kickstarter-projects-now/

A copyright infringement of a Hasbro ip would remain even if Gamezone have the Spanish trademark.

But then they claimed that it would be compatible with the original quests, so they must necessarily be providing a way to use the warhammer / heroquest setting without consent from GW so ...
Even it they got around that somehow, It would likely still be a derived work, so GW and Hasbro would be entitled to some of the profits (all under uk/eu law) , so yet another legal issue

Nah.

Game mechanics are not protected by patent law. The only notable actual patent of game mechanics is the "Tapping" mechanic patented by Wizards of the Coast.

They *are* protected by copyright law in that you cannot copy, word for word, the text of the document.

But, as far as mechanics are concerned... I can, in fact, copy the Warhammer mechanics and resell them. The Wargods games are tweaked WHFB rules; VOID and Urban War/Metropolis are tweaked 40k rules.

TSR tried for quite a while to exercise control over the D&D mechanics, to abject failure. You simply cannot patent an expression of "rolling a cube with symbols on it" and "moving pieces around a board".

So this got into trouble over the IP, who could have guessed . Will be interesting if Kickstarter puts out a statement on their reasons, whatever they decide.

I love how so many people know so much about international law that they can guess how these things will turn out... before it ever goes to trial. No need to asses the risk of litigation, they just know right off the bat how it should be...

If this KS does come back online, GZ will be better off for it, regardless of wether there are more companies waiting in line, clutching C&D in their greedy fists.

The reason being is that with all the negativity and prejudice (in the literal definition) that has surrounded this, consumers will be even less likely to allow such to influence their decision to back the project.

It really is justlike talking about sports. A ton of belly aching, expert opinions, and assertions. But at the end of the day, the game is determined by actually being played by the players, not the experts on the sidelines lending their unsolicited analysis. The ESPN of law.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
...and I use the term 'expert' very generously.

I'd agree with you, if you apply the term "experts" to folks claiming definitive knowledge of either side- whether this is, or is not, in breach of any IP, law, etc.

To me, whether it is or isn't totally doesn't matter. Is it likely it will be accused of being so? Is a C&D, court case, etc likely? Is my money likely to be caught in the middle?

If the answer to any of those is "yes" then there are some obvious extra risks here, regardless of where they stand in the actual issues. I think it's great folks are willing to back this, but obviously Kickstarter is concerned about it, and I won't personally be risking it. No problem with those who are willing to, of course, but the risk is undeniably there; whether GameZone is "right" or "wrong" may not even come into it (and doesn't for me).

I also 100% agree with you, and others, better for this to happen now and get clarity. If they could also voluntarily seek out final clarity from Hasbro (instead of being forced to as KS is doing here) that'd be even better. The fact that they're murky about Hasbro is a red flag- imagine if AvP had been murky about Fox . Would've been a complete non-starter for me, not because of right or wrong, but just the risk of a challenge tying up funds.

 Hellfury wrote:
I love how so many people know so much about international law that they can guess how these things will turn out... before it ever goes to trial. No need to asses the risk of litigation, they just know right off the bat how it should be...

Certainly. But one doesn't need to be an English professor to read or write English.

There's a whole lot of speculation and outright falsehoods surrounding things like IP law, especially in relation to this situation. Many people don't know the difference between copyrights, trademarks, patents, or even that most countries don't recognize it from other countries (hence registering/etc in multiple countries). A small amount of time invested in learning what those differences are can help anyone with an interest in the situation to discern what is going on. Interestingly, reading everything weeble and czakk have ever written during the Chapterhouse stuff is what got me interested in this aspect (and I would love it if they would weigh in on this as well).

However, it's especially frustrating because many people prefer to add fuel to the speculation fire by not reading the clarifications. So, instead of a discussion of what is actually happening, the majority of posts are just repeats of inaccuracies or conjecture.

There are certain known facts: Gamezone owns "HeroQuest" (tm) in Spain. Gamezone's original intent is to produce their "HeroQuest" (tm) product in Spain and allow anyone to legally import this product to their country of choosing. Moon Design Publications, LLC owns "HeroQuest" (tm) in the USA, after Hasbro (and Games Workshop, for "Advanced") let their own trademark die. Moon Design can, has, and does actually license the term "HeroQuest" (tm) to third parties (according to their website).

According to press releases (and thus may be tainted by the source): KS has halted the HQ KS. Moon Design and Gamezone were already in negotiations to allow Gamezone a license to distribute a product called "HeroQuest" in the USA.

Why did KS halt the HQ KS? Officially, due to an IP conflict, but KS hasn't defined the conflict. As Gamezone indicated in their press release, it was premature as they were in the process of negotiating with Moon Design. However, even if no license is obtained and Gamezone has to follow through with their original plan to produce and distribute from Spain, KS does reserve the right to cancel a KS at any time. Their lawyers might just advise them to not bother with it versus the tasty percentage of a high dollar KS.

What's gonna happen: all unknown, at this point, of course. And, of course, anyone can drop a C&D and take people to civil court for nearly anything (I could send you a C&D for using the name Hellfury which I have trademarked. Of course, when a judge finds out I don't own the trademark for Hellfury and you are actually not a product that is being sold in the USA then it would be dropped and I could possibly face sanctions from a judge for filing frivolous lawsuits)

drafting the Hellfury C&D letter right now!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 RiTides wrote:
II also 100% agree with you, and others, better for this to happen now and get clarity. If they could also voluntarily seek out final clarity from Hasbro (instead of being forced to as KS is doing here) that'd be even better. The fact that they're murky about Hasbro is a red flag- imagine if AvP had been murky about Fox .

I think the big ol' difference is that Fox actively owns the trademark for Aliens, Predators, etc. Whereas Hasbro does not own any trademark on "HeroQuest". The actual history of "HeroQuest" is very interesting: it's been used in commerce since the early 80's, as it was part of the RuneQuest/Glorantha franchise. However, Chaosium failed to properly secure the HeroQuest trademark by 1989, which is when Hasbro grabbed it. At this point in time, Chaosium could have tried to fight Hasbro in court, but the court fees would have probably destroyed the small publisher. After Hasbro gave up the HeroQuest trademark, Greg Stafford then grabbed it a decade ago for RuneQuest/Glorantha and it is now held by Moon Design Publications.

From The History of Runequest (http://www.maranci.net/rqpast.htm)

Special: HeroQuest
From the first, RQ players were intrigued by references to a "higher" level of gaming: HeroQuesting. Set in the mythic "God Time" of Glorantha, HeroQuests surpassed the ordinary mundanity of Gloranthan existence and allowed individuals of incredible power to interact with the gods and basic forces of the universe. Success in HeroQuesting could allow a character to become a Demi-Hero, a Hero, a Superhero (not the caped kind), perhaps even a god. But although Chaosium often referred to HeroQuest as an upcoming product, it was never published. Apparently some HeroQuests were run in-house at Chaosium, but the rules used were a matter of speculation. Fans created a wide variety of add-on HeroQuesting rules for RuneQuest and designed their own HeroQuests, inspired by fiction in such works as the RuneQuest Companion.

Eventually Milton Bradley published a major board game under the name HeroQuest. Chaosium had apparently failed to get or maintain the rights to the name. But fans and publications still referred to HeroQuests, and many continued to create their own versions for their own campaigns. Some can still be found online, many years later.

Much later, Milton Bradley gave up the trademark for HeroQuest (the boardgame had long since gone out of print). Greg Stafford's Issaries company picked up the rights to the name, and the next major revision of their non-BRP-derived Hero Wars RPG was called HeroQuest. It has kept that name ever since.

So now there are several kinds of "HeroQuests" in the gaming business. When it comes to RuneQuest, however, there are HeroQuests which were designed for RuneQuest II and III using the Gloranthan setting, which have no relation to the Gloranthan RPG HeroQuest - which is, now, the official Gloranthan system. Confusing, isn't it?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Whew!

A well written post there Judgedoug,

which ensures it will be bypassed and ignored

(I wonder if GW space fairies made KS take down the project, yes that must be it)

Is anyone claiming to be an expert in here?

About...anything?

Something that many speculated might happen did happen - that's all.

I hope it all gets sorted out, and everyone who wants a copy of Heroquest can get one.

And I hope that this is the last of the Legal Shenanigans to happen to this campaign...

i find this all utterly fascinating personally. What we have is quite a bit of muddy mirky questions about IP in this space and with KS distribution. So far it is untested in the KS global space and this may just be a good way to flesh it out some.

Here is an interesting read on grey market goods, which is what this situation may fall under.

http://greatlakescustomslaw.com/trademark-infringement-importing-gray-market-goods-and-seizure-by-customs/

So just cause they own the trademark in spain does not automatically mean they can sell it to a customer in the US.

 judgedoug wrote:

 Hellfury wrote:
I love how so many people know so much about international law that they can guess how these things will turn out... before it ever goes to trial. No need to asses the risk of litigation, they just know right off the bat how it should be...

Certainly. But one doesn't need to be an English professor to read or write English.

There's a whole lot of speculation and outright falsehoods surrounding things like IP law, especially in relation to this situation. Many people don't know the difference between copyrights, trademarks, patents, or even that most countries don't recognize it from other countries (hence registering/etc in multiple countries). A small amount of time invested in learning what those differences are can help anyone with an interest in the situation to discern what is going on. Interestingly, reading everything weeble and czakk have ever written during the Chapterhouse stuff is what got me interested in this aspect (and I would love it if they would weigh in on this as well).

However, it's especially frustrating because many people prefer to add fuel to the speculation fire by not reading the clarifications. So, instead of a discussion of what is actually happening, the majority of posts are just repeats of inaccuracies or conjecture.

There are certain known facts: Gamezone owns "HeroQuest" (tm) in Spain. Gamezone's original intent is to produce their "HeroQuest" (tm) product in Spain and allow anyone to legally import this product to their country of choosing. Moon Design Publications, LLC owns "HeroQuest" (tm) in the USA, after Hasbro (and Games Workshop, for "Advanced") let their own trademark die. Moon Design can, has, and does actually license the term "HeroQuest" (tm) to third parties (according to their website).

According to press releases (and thus may be tainted by the source): KS has halted the HQ KS. Moon Design and Gamezone were already in negotiations to allow Gamezone a license to distribute a product called "HeroQuest" in the USA.

Why did KS halt the HQ KS? Officially, due to an IP conflict, but KS hasn't defined the conflict. As Gamezone indicated in their press release, it was premature as they were in the process of negotiating with Moon Design. However, even if no license is obtained and Gamezone has to follow through with their original plan to produce and distribute from Spain, KS does reserve the right to cancel a KS at any time. Their lawyers might just advise them to not bother with it versus the tasty percentage of a high dollar KS.

What's gonna happen: all unknown, at this point, of course. And, of course, anyone can drop a C&D and take people to civil court for nearly anything (I could send you a C&D for using the name Hellfury which I have trademarked. Of course, when a judge finds out I don't own the trademark for Hellfury and you are actually not a product that is being sold in the USA then it would be dropped and I could possibly face sanctions from a judge for filing frivolous lawsuits)

drafting the Hellfury C&D letter right now!

I wholeheartedly concur. This is how I understand it as well. IANAL though...

I have seen quite a few well reasoned posts simply daring to ask very big designers on BGG why their panties are in such a wad over this, and for daring to ask legitimate questions, those few users got dogpiled by pretty much every other brown nosing yes man.The echo chamber grew so loud, that the noise became "facts".

What gets me the most, is the automatic assumption that GZ are in the wrong. I keep reading "redflags" and such as if that is supposed to lend weight to the negativity.

Nobody knows what is actually agreed upon between MB, GZ and maybe MD. (I dont list GW in this because their IP (models, names, places, maps) is easily removed from the matter, so when people still insist that GW is even remotely relevent to this fiasco, I auto ignore the post)

There needs to be more citations made, and then verified before moving on to the next pont of evidence. Otherwise the discussions remain circular and end of creating the witchhunt effect. A potentially innocent subject persecuted for no reason other than drama caused by little girls.

There are few facts to be seen.


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choasdwarflord wrote:
i find this all utterly fascinating personally. What we have is quite a bit of muddy mirky questions about IP in this space and with KS distribution. So far it is untested in the KS global space and this may just be a good way to flesh it out some.

Here is an interesting read on grey market goods, which is what this situation may fall under.

http://greatlakescustomslaw.com/trademark-infringement-importing-gray-market-goods-and-seizure-by-customs/

So just cause they own the trademark in spain does not automatically mean they can sell it to a customer in the US.

Maybe. But it does beg the question. And that question is how is using KS any different than other avenues to acquire grey market goods?
Its easy and apparently legal to go to an online webstore and ise their check out to purchase, so what makes KS any different?

To use the fox/hasbro difference example above, there was a game called Чужие против хищника (translates literally as "aliens verus predator" ) in russia by a fairly well known company named zvezda who has distributed their models abroad for a decade now. They too claim trademark and copyright legality. http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/109790/chuzhie-protiv-hischnika

It took me awhile to find a way to purchase a a copy, as russian games are fairly difficult to import. And customs didn't hold up the package.

Do they really have the license at all? Does that license only allow distribution in russia? etc. etc. etc. information we, as consumers, may never know.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wC2QJa8olUk

That's very interesting about the Russian AvP game . But there's a reason things like that are often from Russia or the like and may not be something they'd like to be so easily compared to here (but I agree that it is an apt comparison).

Yup. Yup yup yup. Unfortunately this leaves everyone just in a "holding pattern" as KS decided to do this on an extended holiday weekend, so who knows if we'll even see any official word until Monday.

(selfishly, I'm fine with it being delayed as it'll give me time to get in another paycheck before payment is due! heh)

I'm personally looking forward to GZ coming out in the total legal clear on this to finally quash the speculation. Also I really really really want the product they're making. Lots and lots.

HQ was certainly mentioned at the end of RuneQuest second edition -- late 70s I think -- which I used to own. Not sure about first edition.

The waters are further muddied in the UK, where HeroQuest is also the name of a very long-running, commercial LARP game, founded in the 80s by a former Treasure Trap referee. He probably has no registered trademark, but I would guess he has a pretty good case for infringement when it comes to his unregistered trademark.

The other interesting thing about the Russian AvP example is that there, clearly, Fox holds the IP rights in most of the world. Yet the game was able to be made anyway. It's entirely possible that this game "could" be made without getting the go-ahead from the company that holds the trademark in the US now, but I doubt Kickstarter would allow it on their platform until they are told by both parties that an agreement has been reached.

I don't think anyone here has assumed GZ is 'in the wrong", just that they are "in the area where someone may try something, especially after they raised 500K in a few days".

Hoping the "negotiations" are going this way.

GZ: WTF?
MD: Soooooo, trying to get your attention.
GZ: Ok, listening.
MD: Here's the deal. You have the ES trademark and that's it. We have the US trademark and that's it. See how easy it was for us to throw a wrench in the gears. Imagine if GW or Hasbro got butthurt.
GZ: No Gak. We miss the idea of sleeping on mountains of dollars.
MD: Well, it doesn't have to be that way. Here's a proposition for you. Let's set Heroquest in Glorantha. We have fluff, concept art, experience in English editing/playtesting/etc, it would open up using Amazon for fulfillment as well as future distribution in the US. It would remove GW and Hasbro from the equation.
GZ: Say, sounds pretty good. What do you get out this?
MD: It introduces our RPG setting to a wider audience and, oh, I really hate bringing up, but it would require <insert reasonable fees/royalties here>.
GZ: Hmmm, those are really reasonable. I like your thoughts. This is going to be the best game ever and there's absolutely no way anyone could issue a C&D or accuse us of "pirating" a 25 year old game that has been pretty much been dead since hair bands were popular and no one had any idea what Teen Spirit smelled like..
MD: Indeed. Let's get that KS clock ticking again.

 RiTides wrote:
The other interesting thing about the Russian AvP example is that there, clearly, Fox holds the IP rights in most of the world. Yet the game was able to be made anyway. It's entirely possible that this game "could" be made without getting the go-ahead from the company that holds the trademark in the US now, but I doubt Kickstarter would allow it on their platform until they are told by both parties that an agreement has been reached.

Well, yeah, US law is not defacto world law so GZ can certainly make HeroQuest in any country they own the trademark for it (currently, Spain). That Gamezone can make a product using a trademark it owns in it's home country is not at dispute. (officially, we're not even sure what the _actual_ dispute is, other than Gamezone negotiating for a license to distribute in the US from MDP)

re: AvP, Russia and China are notorious for not giving a gak about IP, though. Nintendo spends how many billions fighting piracy in China? There's entire stores set up like Apple stores in China that sell pirated Apple products that operate in broad daylight.

The USA is notorious about giving a gak about IP law and associated things though.

Best to settle all these things now, rather than later.

Triple9 wrote:
Hoping the "negotiations" are going this way.

GZ: WTF?
MD: Soooooo, trying to get your attention.
GZ: Ok, listening.
MD: Here's the deal. You have the ES trademark and that's it. We have the US trademark and that's it. See how easy it was for us to throw a wrench in the gears. Imagine if GW or Hasbro got butthurt.
GZ: No Gak. We miss the idea of sleeping on mountains of dollars.
MD: Well, it doesn't have to be that way. Here's a proposition for you. Let's set Heroquest in Glorantha. We have fluff, concept art, experience in English editing/playtesting/etc, it would open up using Amazon for fulfillment as well as future distribution in the US. It would remove GW and Hasbro from the equation.
GZ: Say, sounds pretty good. What do you get out this?
MD: It introduces our RPG setting to a wider audience and, oh, I really hate bringing up, but it would require <insert reasonable fees/royalties here>.
GZ: Hmmm, those are really reasonable. I like your thoughts. This is going to be the best game ever and there's absolutely no way anyone could issue a C&D or accuse us of "pirating" a 25 year old game that has been pretty much been dead since hair bands were popular and no one had any idea what Teen Spirit smelled like..
MD: Indeed. Let's get that KS clock ticking again.

*AHEM*

Hell.

No.



Much as I love Glorantha, it is a terrible fit for HeroQuest (the board game).

Hell... the current RPG HeroQuest is a terrible fit for Glorantha.... Or for any setting, anywhere, anytime, for that matter. (No sir, I do not like that game. Why the heck did Chaosium have to spin off Glorantha, while keeping the BRP system? Glorantha belongs in BRP!)

The Auld Grump - I still have the Avalon Hill Runequest....