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Also the logic that the shield/spear gives him an edge youre assuming Dante is going to be in front of him. Dante would use the fact he is more mobile and can jump pack to his advantage. Sure spear+shield is good but the shield can only protect one side of his body and in reality he couldnt use his spear 300-style due to the terminator armor. He wouldnt have the range of shoulder motion to have the spear above the shield. Think about it. Rationally thinking the shoulder pads in terminator armor would inhibit the kind of movement that would make a straight armed thrust impossible, even in Power Armor.


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 Sasa0mg wrote:
Tu'Shan seems to be kinda illusive. Theres more background on Vulkan He'Stan then his own chapter master, which is kinda lame.

He'Stan is more important to them than the CM though. He's got the ability to take any force of salamanders he wants to aid him, no matter what they were doing.

Thatguyhsagun wrote:
Also the logic that the shield/spear gives him an edge youre assuming Dante is going to be in front of him. Dante would use the fact he is more mobile and can jump pack to his advantage. Sure spear+shield is good but the shield can only protect one side of his body and in reality he couldnt use his spear 300-style due to the terminator armor. He wouldnt have the range of shoulder motion to have the spear above the shield. Think about it. Rationally thinking the shoulder pads in terminator armor would inhibit the kind of movement that would make a straight armed thrust impossible, even in Power Armor.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sasa0mg wrote:
Tu'Shan seems to be kinda illusive. Theres more background on Vulkan He'Stan then his own chapter master, which is kinda lame.

He'Stan is more important to them than the CM though. He's got the ability to take any force of salamanders he wants to aid him, no matter what they were doing.

The problem is that his terminator armor isn't exactly standard issue. Which has been mentioned

Moloc's customary panoply of war is a highly modified suit of Artificer Tactical Dreadnought Armour, considered to be based upon the Tartaros Pattern Terminator Armour design. The Tartaros Pattern itself is a relic design among its kind, developed in the latter stages of the Great Crusade in the late 30th Millennium, and is marked for being lighter and more streamlined in its construction without reduction in its phenomenal durabilit

tell me how a guy with limited shoulder rotation would be capable of doing that. In this bulky armor.



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 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Thatguyhsagun wrote:
Also the logic that the shield/spear gives him an edge youre assuming Dante is going to be in front of him. Dante would use the fact he is more mobile and can jump pack to his advantage. Sure spear+shield is good but the shield can only protect one side of his body and in reality he couldnt use his spear 300-style due to the terminator armor. He wouldnt have the range of shoulder motion to have the spear above the shield. Think about it. Rationally thinking the shoulder pads in terminator armor would inhibit the kind of movement that would make a straight armed thrust impossible, even in Power Armor.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sasa0mg wrote:
Tu'Shan seems to be kinda illusive. Theres more background on Vulkan He'Stan then his own chapter master, which is kinda lame.

He'Stan is more important to them than the CM though. He's got the ability to take any force of salamanders he wants to aid him, no matter what they were doing.

The problem is that his terminator armor isn't exactly standard issue. Which has been mentioned

Moloc's customary panoply of war is a highly modified suit of Artificer Tactical Dreadnought Armour, considered to be based upon the Tartaros Pattern Terminator Armour design. The Tartaros Pattern itself is a relic design among its kind, developed in the latter stages of the Great Crusade in the late 30th Millennium, and is marked for being lighter and more streamlined in its construction without reduction in its phenomenal durabilit

As i said, even PA wouldnt be able to make that strike much less ANY kind of terminator armor. Without the thrust there is very little way to effectively make a killing blow with a spear. Limited to sweeping attacks and smaller and less powerful underhand thrusts.

For those curious: Calgar charging Moloc plays out like so:

Calgar shoots Moloc, doing .32 wounds and then does .83 wounds in combat. Moloc does .1 wounds in overwatch and then .851 wounds in combat (so each down one).

So AM's taken 1.15, CM taken .95

After that its a round of Moloc doing .95 on his round while Calgar only does .70

AM's taken 1.85 vs CM taking 1.9

If Calgar ever falls behind he can fail his save and charge back in, and Moloc can't shoot again. So its a race then, can Calgar drop out and shoot again on the charge? If he does, he could win the race to 4, if not, no chance (being slower)

Round two, AM would have taken 1.82 more and CM another 1.8 (new totals 3.67 and 3.7 at the end of round two) and if they're both still around on round 3, Calgar dies as AM is faster. AM walks away with a wound left.

On a battlefied, AM is screwed though, as if even a combat squad is within range 12' of the fight, and AM only gets shot at one turn, he dies and Calgar walks away with only a wound left.

EDIT: worth noting 5th edition Calgar would win, 6th edition he doesn't: I dunno

In regards to the spear upon making the block you push it forward and out, you open up your body slightly because you have there weapon on the shield as you open your body up with the twisted moment from the shield push you can use that to gain thrust for the spear. You wouldn't be holding your spear like that guy in the picture.

And imo calgar is more a fluff hero then that

No Draigo :(

REALLY you want to talk about range of motion look at that helmet it looks like he suffers from batman forever syndrome can he even turn his head and with that jump pack that is almost as big as him im sure he's super fast and not a giant freggin target seriously can he even stand up straight with that thing.


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 CrashCanuck wrote:
No Draigo :(

you know what ill add Draigo just for you.

Thatguyhsagun wrote:
Also the logic that the shield/spear gives him an edge youre assuming Dante is going to be in front of him. Dante would use the fact he is more mobile and can jump pack to his advantage. Sure spear+shield is good but the shield can only protect one side of his body and in reality he couldnt use his spear 300-style due to the terminator armor. He wouldnt have the range of shoulder motion to have the spear above the shield. Think about it. Rationally thinking the shoulder pads in terminator armor would inhibit the kind of movement that would make a straight armed thrust impossible, even in Power Armor.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sasa0mg wrote:
Tu'Shan seems to be kinda illusive. Theres more background on Vulkan He'Stan then his own chapter master, which is kinda lame.

He'Stan is more important to them than the CM though. He's got the ability to take any force of salamanders he wants to aid him, no matter what they were doing.

 Sasa0mg wrote:
In regards to the spear upon making the block you push it forward and out, you open up your body slightly because you have there weapon on the shield as you open your body up with the twisted moment from the shield push you can use that to gain thrust for the spear. You wouldn't be holding your spear like that guy in the picture.

And imo calgar is more a fluff hero then that

Even so he wont have the shoulder rotation to draw back, he would rely solely on the rotational movement at the hips (does that even work when your armor is one solid piece? i mean they may not reproduce but nobody wants to squish the frank and beans) and their ability to get the shield out of the way in time (again, no shoulder rotation to bring it up or back, he would have to drop it and bring the spear tip up) it would actually be a rather clumsy maneuver to execute, and wouldnt exactly be the fastest thing. He would block and go to push, rotating at his hips since he cant use his shoulder (admit it, the shoulder pad is jammed into the armor when hes just holding the shield) and would then need to swing the spear around with him (holding on somewhere near the midsection if he wants an accurate, powerful strike after the swing) and slide the shield down Dante's body and thrust at the same time before dante can dance back a few feet. My question is, he has longer reach why did he let dante inside to begin with?


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 bigboss1o1 wrote:
REALLY you want to talk about range of motion look at that helmet it looks like he suffers from batman forever syndrome can he even turn his head and with that jump pack that is almost as big as him im sure he's super fast and not a giant freggin target seriously can he even stand up straight with that thing.


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 CrashCanuck wrote:
No Draigo :(

you know what ill add Draigo just for you.

He cant look behind him no, but when the target is infront thats no biggie. you damage the JP hes not gonna suffer. Also, in PA marines can lift up armored cars im sure a jump pack doesnt weigh 2+tonnes. He could easily stand up. Plus when using an axe, the shoulder rotates vertically as opposed to a spear that needs horizontal rotation to be effective. As for going "full slow" do you know ANY sallies fluff? He'Stan takes the name of their primarch and can use any tools in the salamander arsenal to get his quest done. That includes any manpower that is nearby. He operates outside the chapter organization and advises Tu'Shan when the Master needs help. He is viewed as the savior of the chapter, the one who will lead them to their Primarch and glory. He is more awe-inspiring to them than their CM, and is part man, pary myth to the chapter.

I think Moloc's armor is hinged quite well he's definitely a lot more menueverable judging by his model and art work then any other terminator armor I've seen I don't see why he wouldn't be able to move himself as he needed to be. And no I was meaning that the spear thrust would just ultimately be lower if need be but I think his armor allows for just as good bodily rotations and movements then regular space marine armor. As again some of the most formidable (highest WS characters) are featured in power armor so it can't be cumbersome to the point of causing any real degree of hindrance as far as bodily movements goes.

Also the point of power armor is to strengthen the bodies movements the fact the spear is a relic blade combined with the terminator armor and the fact that if your saying dante is descending upon him there would be enough accumulative force in place to see the thrust hit home with considerable enough force to kill.

And if your problem is with the him not being able to react in terminator armor either way I have to remind you that Dante isn't a dark eldar witch at this point, he's not simply going to ninja himself around fast enough to overwhelm him, nor is that jump pack silent enough to disguise what he's doing at any point either so he would know full well what was going on.


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The stance would merely have the spear behind held withdrawn from the shield somewhat, not sitting over the top of it, or even extended out alongside of it. It would be being held around his ass like a mouse trap as soon as that shield hits, push snap. You've got your rat.


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Is draigo actually a chapter master still, I thought he was just lost? And aren't the inquisition in charge of the gray knights?


I still think Calgar fluff wise as the OP wants is the no.1 spot for strongest chapter master

Followed by Logon / Moloc in a competition for 2nd

I wish they would do more with the sallies CM, Vulkan He'stan is stealing all the limelight.

Thatguyhsagun wrote:

 Sasa0mg wrote:
In regards to the spear upon making the block you push it forward and out, you open up your body slightly because you have there weapon on the shield as you open your body up with the twisted moment from the shield push you can use that to gain thrust for the spear. You wouldn't be holding your spear like that guy in the picture.

And imo calgar is more a fluff hero then that

Even so he wont have the shoulder rotation to draw back, he would rely solely on the rotational movement at the hips (does that even work when your armor is one solid piece? i mean they may not reproduce but nobody wants to squish the frank and beans) and their ability to get the shield out of the way in time (again, no shoulder rotation to bring it up or back, he would have to drop it and bring the spear tip up) it would actually be a rather clumsy maneuver to execute, and wouldnt exactly be the fastest thing. He would block and go to push, rotating at his hips since he cant use his shoulder (admit it, the shoulder pad is jammed into the armor when hes just holding the shield) and would then need to swing the spear around with him (holding on somewhere near the midsection if he wants an accurate, powerful strike after the swing) and slide the shield down Dante's body and thrust at the same time before dante can dance back a few feet. My question is, he has longer reach why did he let dante inside to begin with?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 bigboss1o1 wrote:
REALLY you want to talk about range of motion look at that helmet it looks like he suffers from batman forever syndrome can he even turn his head and with that jump pack that is almost as big as him im sure he's super fast and not a giant freggin target seriously can he even stand up straight with that thing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CrashCanuck wrote:
No Draigo :(

you know what ill add Draigo just for you.

He cant look behind him no, but when the target is infront thats no biggie. you damage the JP hes not gonna suffer. Also, in PA marines can lift up armored cars im sure a jump pack doesnt weigh 2+tonnes. He could easily stand up. Plus when using an axe, the shoulder rotates vertically as opposed to a spear that needs horizontal rotation to be effective. As for going "full slow" do you know ANY sallies fluff? He'Stan takes the name of their primarch and can use any tools in the salamander arsenal to get his quest done. That includes any manpower that is nearby. He operates outside the chapter organization and advises Tu'Shan when the Master needs help. He is viewed as the savior of the chapter, the one who will lead them to their Primarch and glory. He is more awe-inspiring to them than their CM, and is part man, pary myth to the chapter.

Have you ever worn terminator armor? Im sure you havnt soo dont argue range of motion when termies have access to weapons like thunder hammers lightning claws, mauls, axes, swords, and spears which require all manner of movements horizontal and vertical your argument is invalid, and just because the shoulder pads are fixed on the model does not mean its fixed as an actual suit of armor thrusting a spear does not require you to be able to do the YMCA just a decent horizontal range of motion, and dont tell me that JP isnt something to worry about thats a giant fuel tank on his back and with all this metal on metal action a spark and BOOOM lol

 Sasa0mg wrote:
I think Moloc's armor is hinged quite well he's definitely a lot more menueverable judging by his model and art work then any other terminator armor I've seen I don't see why he wouldn't be able to move himself as he needed to be. And no I was meaning that the spear thrust would just ultimately be lower if need be but I think his armor allows for just as good bodily rotations and movements then regular space marine armor. As again some of the most formidable (highest WS characters) are featured in power armor so it can't be cumbersome to the point of causing any real degree of hindrance as far as bodily movements goes.

Also the point of power armor is to strengthen the bodies movements the fact the spear is a relic blade combined with the terminator armor and the fact that if your saying dante is descending upon him there would be enough accumulative force in place to see the thrust hit home with considerable enough force to kill.

And if your problem is with the him not being able to react in terminator armor either way I have to remind you that Dante isn't a dark eldar witch at this point, he's not simply going to ninja himself around fast enough to overwhelm him, nor is that jump pack silent enough to disguise what he's doing at any point either so he would know full well what was going on.

It wouldnt be more maneuverable than Power armor, although he would be more maneuverable than any TDA out there. Still wont be able to draw back. Also, as its a brawl youd know your opponent is there, im saying if he deflects an axe strike (and the shield holds up) he would be slower to push Dante off and make a good thrust than dante would be to get out of attack range. Lets also remember axes are very good at destroying shields, so theres that. I agree if dante were diving straight down it would be laughably easy for moloc to kebab him, but in a brawl youre face to face, and Dante isnt stupid enough do dive headfirst at an opponent. Im also not saying he wont react, im saying he'd be slower than dante. Dante is no witch but fluff wise against an enemy in more cumbersome armor (be honest, termie armor no matter how well made would be more cumbersome than PA) he would be slightly faster. Enough to give him an edge.

Bigboss, why did you make the poll if you are going to defend Moloc to the end? It feels really trollish.

Lucarikx

Thatguyhsagun wrote:

 Sasa0mg wrote:
I think Moloc's armor is hinged quite well he's definitely a lot more menueverable judging by his model and art work then any other terminator armor I've seen I don't see why he wouldn't be able to move himself as he needed to be. And no I was meaning that the spear thrust would just ultimately be lower if need be but I think his armor allows for just as good bodily rotations and movements then regular space marine armor. As again some of the most formidable (highest WS characters) are featured in power armor so it can't be cumbersome to the point of causing any real degree of hindrance as far as bodily movements goes.

Also the point of power armor is to strengthen the bodies movements the fact the spear is a relic blade combined with the terminator armor and the fact that if your saying dante is descending upon him there would be enough accumulative force in place to see the thrust hit home with considerable enough force to kill.

And if your problem is with the him not being able to react in terminator armor either way I have to remind you that Dante isn't a dark eldar witch at this point, he's not simply going to ninja himself around fast enough to overwhelm him, nor is that jump pack silent enough to disguise what he's doing at any point either so he would know full well what was going on.

It wouldnt be more maneuverable than Power armor, although he would be more maneuverable than any TDA out there. Still wont be able to draw back. Also, as its a brawl youd know your opponent is there, im saying if he deflects an axe strike (and the shield holds up) he would be slower to push Dante off and make a good thrust than dante would be to get out of attack range. Lets also remember axes are very good at destroying shields, so theres that. I agree if dante were diving straight down it would be laughably easy for moloc to kebab him, but in a brawl youre face to face, and Dante isnt stupid enough do dive headfirst at an opponent. Im also not saying he wont react, im saying he'd be slower than dante. Dante is no witch but fluff wise against an enemy in more cumbersome armor (be honest, termie armor no matter how well made would be more cumbersome than PA) he would be slightly faster. Enough to give him an edge.

Im sorry I do not care what the fluff says or how strong he is, he is not doing any kind of dancing with that Volkswagon beetle on his back i see him being just as if not more cumbersome then termie armor and the fact that im pretty sure his visual left and right limits are greatly hindered with that rediculous ornate helmet I mean Im just saying.

 bigboss1o1 wrote:

Thatguyhsagun wrote:

 Sasa0mg wrote:
In regards to the spear upon making the block you push it forward and out, you open up your body slightly because you have there weapon on the shield as you open your body up with the twisted moment from the shield push you can use that to gain thrust for the spear. You wouldn't be holding your spear like that guy in the picture.

And imo calgar is more a fluff hero then that

Even so he wont have the shoulder rotation to draw back, he would rely solely on the rotational movement at the hips (does that even work when your armor is one solid piece? i mean they may not reproduce but nobody wants to squish the frank and beans) and their ability to get the shield out of the way in time (again, no shoulder rotation to bring it up or back, he would have to drop it and bring the spear tip up) it would actually be a rather clumsy maneuver to execute, and wouldnt exactly be the fastest thing. He would block and go to push, rotating at his hips since he cant use his shoulder (admit it, the shoulder pad is jammed into the armor when hes just holding the shield) and would then need to swing the spear around with him (holding on somewhere near the midsection if he wants an accurate, powerful strike after the swing) and slide the shield down Dante's body and thrust at the same time before dante can dance back a few feet. My question is, he has longer reach why did he let dante inside to begin with?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 bigboss1o1 wrote:
REALLY you want to talk about range of motion look at that helmet it looks like he suffers from batman forever syndrome can he even turn his head and with that jump pack that is almost as big as him im sure he's super fast and not a giant freggin target seriously can he even stand up straight with that thing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CrashCanuck wrote:
No Draigo :(

you know what ill add Draigo just for you.

He cant look behind him no, but when the target is infront thats no biggie. you damage the JP hes not gonna suffer. Also, in PA marines can lift up armored cars im sure a jump pack doesnt weigh 2+tonnes. He could easily stand up. Plus when using an axe, the shoulder rotates vertically as opposed to a spear that needs horizontal rotation to be effective. As for going "full slow" do you know ANY sallies fluff? He'Stan takes the name of their primarch and can use any tools in the salamander arsenal to get his quest done. That includes any manpower that is nearby. He operates outside the chapter organization and advises Tu'Shan when the Master needs help. He is viewed as the savior of the chapter, the one who will lead them to their Primarch and glory. He is more awe-inspiring to them than their CM, and is part man, pary myth to the chapter.

Have you ever worn terminator armor? Im sure you havnt the soo dont argue range of motion when termies have access to weapons like thunder hammers lightning claws, mauls, axes, swords, and spears which require all manner of movements horizontal and vertical your argument is invalid, and just because the shoulder pads are fixed on the model does not mean its fixed as an actual suit of armor thrusting a spear does not require you to be able to do the YMCA just a decent horizontal range of motion, and dont tell me that JP isnt something to worry about thats a giant fuel tank on his back and with all this metal on metal action a spark and BOOOM lol

Have you worn it either? if not you cannot say the range of shoulder motion. If the Shoulder pad wasnt fixed onto the armor whats the point of it? take it off and its a weak spot in the armor. hammers, swords, axes, mauls and shields are not drawn back in the manner of a spear, also they are not available on terminators. Also, the JP would not explode Michael Bay style due to a spark. First youd need to penetrate the holding tank for the Promethium and let the gasses build to the ideal mixture for spontaneous combustion, then add the spark for the boom. That would take about 10-15 minutes (going off a car gas tank time). Also wouldnt kill him as the JP is ontop of the PA not connected internally. It would propel him foreword, but it wouldnt be the first time in 1100+ years he fought without the JP. Also, to hit the JP you would need to be behind him.

 Lucarikx wrote:
Bigboss, why did you make the poll if you are going to defend Moloc to the end? It feels really trollish.

Lucarikx

the polls only been up for like 2 days you gotta give it at least a week or soo before declaring a victor IMO so until that time i shall defend my champ lol.

Lucarikx wrote:Bigboss, why did you make the poll if you are going to defend Moloc to the end? It feels really trollish.

Lucarikx

I dont mind, I have plenty of free time.

bigboss1o1 wrote:

Thatguyhsagun wrote:

 Sasa0mg wrote:
I think Moloc's armor is hinged quite well he's definitely a lot more menueverable judging by his model and art work then any other terminator armor I've seen I don't see why he wouldn't be able to move himself as he needed to be. And no I was meaning that the spear thrust would just ultimately be lower if need be but I think his armor allows for just as good bodily rotations and movements then regular space marine armor. As again some of the most formidable (highest WS characters) are featured in power armor so it can't be cumbersome to the point of causing any real degree of hindrance as far as bodily movements goes.

Also the point of power armor is to strengthen the bodies movements the fact the spear is a relic blade combined with the terminator armor and the fact that if your saying dante is descending upon him there would be enough accumulative force in place to see the thrust hit home with considerable enough force to kill.

And if your problem is with the him not being able to react in terminator armor either way I have to remind you that Dante isn't a dark eldar witch at this point, he's not simply going to ninja himself around fast enough to overwhelm him, nor is that jump pack silent enough to disguise what he's doing at any point either so he would know full well what was going on.

It wouldnt be more maneuverable than Power armor, although he would be more maneuverable than any TDA out there. Still wont be able to draw back. Also, as its a brawl youd know your opponent is there, im saying if he deflects an axe strike (and the shield holds up) he would be slower to push Dante off and make a good thrust than dante would be to get out of attack range. Lets also remember axes are very good at destroying shields, so theres that. I agree if dante were diving straight down it would be laughably easy for moloc to kebab him, but in a brawl youre face to face, and Dante isnt stupid enough do dive headfirst at an opponent. Im also not saying he wont react, im saying he'd be slower than dante. Dante is no witch but fluff wise against an enemy in more cumbersome armor (be honest, termie armor no matter how well made would be more cumbersome than PA) he would be slightly faster. Enough to give him an edge.

Im sorry I do not care what the fluff says or how strong he is, he is not doing any kind of dancing with that Volkswagon beetle on his back i see him being just as if not more cumbersome then termie armor and the fact that im pretty sure his visual left and right limits are greatly hindered with that rediculous ornate helmet I mean Im just saying.

First off it woulf be about the size of a minifridge not a car. Secondly its common for ALL marines not him specifically to lift in the multi tonne range in full PA. Third, the thing is behind his head not around it he has free left to right motion range of his neck, about 180 degree line of sight. If anything hinders his vision it would be the eye slits of the helmet. Fourthly, he does not have to draw back for his weapon, he draws up and down making the JP less of a hindrance than fighting with a spear.

Thatguyhsagun wrote:

 bigboss1o1 wrote:

Thatguyhsagun wrote:

 Sasa0mg wrote:
In regards to the spear upon making the block you push it forward and out, you open up your body slightly because you have there weapon on the shield as you open your body up with the twisted moment from the shield push you can use that to gain thrust for the spear. You wouldn't be holding your spear like that guy in the picture.

And imo calgar is more a fluff hero then that

Even so he wont have the shoulder rotation to draw back, he would rely solely on the rotational movement at the hips (does that even work when your armor is one solid piece? i mean they may not reproduce but nobody wants to squish the frank and beans) and their ability to get the shield out of the way in time (again, no shoulder rotation to bring it up or back, he would have to drop it and bring the spear tip up) it would actually be a rather clumsy maneuver to execute, and wouldnt exactly be the fastest thing. He would block and go to push, rotating at his hips since he cant use his shoulder (admit it, the shoulder pad is jammed into the armor when hes just holding the shield) and would then need to swing the spear around with him (holding on somewhere near the midsection if he wants an accurate, powerful strike after the swing) and slide the shield down Dante's body and thrust at the same time before dante can dance back a few feet. My question is, he has longer reach why did he let dante inside to begin with?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 bigboss1o1 wrote:
REALLY you want to talk about range of motion look at that helmet it looks like he suffers from batman forever syndrome can he even turn his head and with that jump pack that is almost as big as him im sure he's super fast and not a giant freggin target seriously can he even stand up straight with that thing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CrashCanuck wrote:
No Draigo :(

you know what ill add Draigo just for you.

He cant look behind him no, but when the target is infront thats no biggie. you damage the JP hes not gonna suffer. Also, in PA marines can lift up armored cars im sure a jump pack doesnt weigh 2+tonnes. He could easily stand up. Plus when using an axe, the shoulder rotates vertically as opposed to a spear that needs horizontal rotation to be effective. As for going "full slow" do you know ANY sallies fluff? He'Stan takes the name of their primarch and can use any tools in the salamander arsenal to get his quest done. That includes any manpower that is nearby. He operates outside the chapter organization and advises Tu'Shan when the Master needs help. He is viewed as the savior of the chapter, the one who will lead them to their Primarch and glory. He is more awe-inspiring to them than their CM, and is part man, pary myth to the chapter.

Have you ever worn terminator armor? Im sure you havnt the soo dont argue range of motion when termies have access to weapons like thunder hammers lightning claws, mauls, axes, swords, and spears which require all manner of movements horizontal and vertical your argument is invalid, and just because the shoulder pads are fixed on the model does not mean its fixed as an actual suit of armor thrusting a spear does not require you to be able to do the YMCA just a decent horizontal range of motion, and dont tell me that JP isnt something to worry about thats a giant fuel tank on his back and with all this metal on metal action a spark and BOOOM lol

Have you worn it either? if not you cannot say the range of shoulder motion. If the Shoulder pad wasnt fixed onto the armor whats the point of it? take it off and its a weak spot in the armor. hammers, swords, axes, mauls and shields are not drawn back in the manner of a spear, also they are not available on terminators. Also, the JP would not explode Michael Bay style due to a spark. First youd need to penetrate the holding tank for the Promethium and let the gasses build to the ideal mixture for spontaneous combustion, then add the spark for the boom. That would take about 10-15 minutes (going off a car gas tank time). Also wouldnt kill him as the JP is ontop of the PA not connected internally. It would propel him foreword, but it wouldnt be the first time in 1100+ years he fought without the JP. Also, to hit the JP you would need to be behind him.

Of course Bill Nye I assume you have had several prometheum packs explode on your back obviously its no more then a tickle and dont say he would have to be behind him to hit that thing is almost as wide as he is tall.

 bigboss1o1 wrote:

Thatguyhsagun wrote:

 bigboss1o1 wrote:

Thatguyhsagun wrote:

 Sasa0mg wrote:
In regards to the spear upon making the block you push it forward and out, you open up your body slightly because you have there weapon on the shield as you open your body up with the twisted moment from the shield push you can use that to gain thrust for the spear. You wouldn't be holding your spear like that guy in the picture.

And imo calgar is more a fluff hero then that

Even so he wont have the shoulder rotation to draw back, he would rely solely on the rotational movement at the hips (does that even work when your armor is one solid piece? i mean they may not reproduce but nobody wants to squish the frank and beans) and their ability to get the shield out of the way in time (again, no shoulder rotation to bring it up or back, he would have to drop it and bring the spear tip up) it would actually be a rather clumsy maneuver to execute, and wouldnt exactly be the fastest thing. He would block and go to push, rotating at his hips since he cant use his shoulder (admit it, the shoulder pad is jammed into the armor when hes just holding the shield) and would then need to swing the spear around with him (holding on somewhere near the midsection if he wants an accurate, powerful strike after the swing) and slide the shield down Dante's body and thrust at the same time before dante can dance back a few feet. My question is, he has longer reach why did he let dante inside to begin with?


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 bigboss1o1 wrote:
REALLY you want to talk about range of motion look at that helmet it looks like he suffers from batman forever syndrome can he even turn his head and with that jump pack that is almost as big as him im sure he's super fast and not a giant freggin target seriously can he even stand up straight with that thing.


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 CrashCanuck wrote:
No Draigo :(

you know what ill add Draigo just for you.

He cant look behind him no, but when the target is infront thats no biggie. you damage the JP hes not gonna suffer. Also, in PA marines can lift up armored cars im sure a jump pack doesnt weigh 2+tonnes. He could easily stand up. Plus when using an axe, the shoulder rotates vertically as opposed to a spear that needs horizontal rotation to be effective. As for going "full slow" do you know ANY sallies fluff? He'Stan takes the name of their primarch and can use any tools in the salamander arsenal to get his quest done. That includes any manpower that is nearby. He operates outside the chapter organization and advises Tu'Shan when the Master needs help. He is viewed as the savior of the chapter, the one who will lead them to their Primarch and glory. He is more awe-inspiring to them than their CM, and is part man, pary myth to the chapter.

Have you ever worn terminator armor? Im sure you havnt the soo dont argue range of motion when termies have access to weapons like thunder hammers lightning claws, mauls, axes, swords, and spears which require all manner of movements horizontal and vertical your argument is invalid, and just because the shoulder pads are fixed on the model does not mean its fixed as an actual suit of armor thrusting a spear does not require you to be able to do the YMCA just a decent horizontal range of motion, and dont tell me that JP isnt something to worry about thats a giant fuel tank on his back and with all this metal on metal action a spark and BOOOM lol

Have you worn it either? if not you cannot say the range of shoulder motion. If the Shoulder pad wasnt fixed onto the armor whats the point of it? take it off and its a weak spot in the armor. hammers, swords, axes, mauls and shields are not drawn back in the manner of a spear, also they are not available on terminators. Also, the JP would not explode Michael Bay style due to a spark. First youd need to penetrate the holding tank for the Promethium and let the gasses build to the ideal mixture for spontaneous combustion, then add the spark for the boom. That would take about 10-15 minutes (going off a car gas tank time). Also wouldnt kill him as the JP is ontop of the PA not connected internally. It would propel him foreword, but it wouldnt be the first time in 1100+ years he fought without the JP. Also, to hit the JP you would need to be behind him.

Of course Bill Nye I assume you have had several prometheum packs explode on your back obviously its no more then a tickle and dont say he would have to be behind him to hit that thing is almost as wide as he is tall.

Prometheum would be about the same as any explosive gas we have now. Liquid it will burn in a gaseous state it needs the right percentage to explode. As for it being wide, the fuel tank would be situated near the center not in each individual engine. Common sense dictates not t put your fuel next to source of combustion. As for the force it would be not nearly enough to breach power armor, much less artificered nipple armor Dante uses

Yeah that thing is on his back you can only get to it from behind him? OK

 bigboss1o1 wrote:
Yeah that thing is on his back you can only get to it from behind him? OK

Now tell me do you honestly think the air intake manifold will explode with a spark?

You actually can't hit much of the Jump Pack from the front.....

Lucarikx

 Lucarikx wrote:
You actually can't hit much of the Jump Pack from the front.....

Lucarikx

the intake manifold and sides of the thruster itself. Neither of which would go boom

Thatguyhsagun wrote:

 bigboss1o1 wrote:
Yeah that thing is on his back you can only get to it from behind him? OK

Now tell me do you honestly think the air intake manifold will explode with a spark?

I work with JP8 all the time and i know you can throw a match on that stuff and nothing but a spark for whatever reason WOOOOSH. But if a spark wont do it a high powered laser sure would.

 bigboss1o1 wrote:

Thatguyhsagun wrote:

 bigboss1o1 wrote:
Yeah that thing is on his back you can only get to it from behind him? OK

Now tell me do you honestly think the air intake manifold will explode with a spark?

I work with JP8 all the time and i know you can throw a match on that stuff and nothing but a spark for whatever reason WOOOOSH. But if a spark wont do it a high powered laser sure would.

In melee combat you have enough time to aim and fire off a laser accurately enough without getting chopped? at a moving target? thats inside your defense? also, where are you gonna get a match from in 40k? plus, the spark wouldnt stay lit long enough to go through into the combustion chamber (where the fuel would be)

Thatguyhsagun wrote:

 Lucarikx wrote:
You actually can't hit much of the Jump Pack from the front.....

Lucarikx

the intake manifold and sides of the thruster itself. Neither of which would go boom

Obviously we have members of the adeptas mechanicus look the fact still remains he swings big combersome two handed axe probably gets it wedged in shield even if he doesnt he gets pushed back and impaled and if he does for whatever unrealistic reason dance his way out of range of long ass spear he gets lasered to oblivion with nothing or no way short of jumping into the air still a target to avoid or deflect it.


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Im sorry all I keep hearing is this no Dante would win Dante would win but not a single person has given me a single realistic example how, short of OOOOO shoot him with melta gun like he's just going to stand there chest out and take it.


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Wow Seth got a vote before Pedro poor Pedro

 bigboss1o1 wrote:

Thatguyhsagun wrote:

 Lucarikx wrote:
You actually can't hit much of the Jump Pack from the front.....

Lucarikx

the intake manifold and sides of the thruster itself. Neither of which would go boom

Obviously we have members of the adeptas mechanicus look the fact still remains he swings big combersome two handed axe probably gets it wedged in shield even if he doesnt he gets pushed back and impaled and if he does for whatever unrealistic reason dance his way out of range of long ass spear he gets lasered to oblivion with nothing or no way short of jumping into the air still a target to avoid or deflect it.

No we have people with eyes. Theyre great. Also, he uses a 1 handed axe. The other he has a wrist mounted meltagun to do double duty: chosing to strike with both hands or aiming at a second target. And if his axe gets stuck in the shield that would negate the shields powerfield, giving him only the protection of his TDA. Then he just jumps out of range with his meltagun. The "long ass spear" would be an unstable weapon at best to aim a laser. The 1-then-done shot will also have a chance to be reflected by the Iron Halo, or just miss alltogether (again try shooting a moving target. Now try holding your rifle 1-handed and shoot a moving target. not like 1-2 KPH like 10-15. a marine wont stand there and let you shoot him. He'll do his damndest to survive

Heres an example of how Dante would kill Moloc:

Curse Moloc.

Petrify Moloc with the Death Mask of Sanguinous.

Promptly fight and probably kill his enthralled opponent.

Lucarikx

Thatguyhsagun wrote:

 bigboss1o1 wrote:

Thatguyhsagun wrote:

 Lucarikx wrote:
You actually can't hit much of the Jump Pack from the front.....

Lucarikx

the intake manifold and sides of the thruster itself. Neither of which would go boom

Obviously we have members of the adeptas mechanicus look the fact still remains he swings big combersome two handed axe probably gets it wedged in shield even if he doesnt he gets pushed back and impaled and if he does for whatever unrealistic reason dance his way out of range of long ass spear he gets lasered to oblivion with nothing or no way short of jumping into the air still a target to avoid or deflect it.

No we have people with eyes. Theyre great. Also, he uses a 1 handed axe. The other he has a wrist mounted meltagun to do double duty: chosing to strike with both hands or aiming at a second target. And if his axe gets stuck in the shield that would negate the shields powerfield, giving him only the protection of his TDA. Then he just jumps out of range with his meltagun. The "long ass spear" would be an unstable weapon at best to aim a laser. The 1-then-done shot will also have a chance to be reflected by the Iron Halo, or just miss alltogether (again try shooting a moving target. Now try holding your rifle 1-handed and shoot a moving target. not like 1-2 KPH like 10-15. a marine wont stand there and let you shoot him. He'll do his damndest to survive

First off the thought process a person must have to think a fully funded chapter master would have a single shot laser in any other way then TT blows my mind and to think further that realisticly an iron halo would serve as any kindof real protection wow.

 bigboss1o1 wrote:

Thatguyhsagun wrote:

 Lucarikx wrote:
You actually can't hit much of the Jump Pack from the front.....

Lucarikx

the intake manifold and sides of the thruster itself. Neither of which would go boom

Obviously we have members of the adeptas mechanicus look the fact still remains he swings big combersome two handed axe probably gets it wedged in shield even if he doesnt he gets pushed back and impaled and if he does for whatever unrealistic reason dance his way out of range of long ass spear he gets lasered to oblivion with nothing or no way short of jumping into the air still a target to avoid or deflect it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Im sorry all I keep hearing is this no Dante would win Dante would win but not a single person has given me a single realistic example how, short of OOOOO shoot him with melta gun like he's just going to stand there chest out and take it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wow Seth got a vote before Pedro poor Pedro

You mean aside from mobility (1) speed (2) maneuverability (3) and the flexibility that comes with a JP (4) that constitutes his ability to outmanouver him, the fact that a spear is not designed for use in full armor (ever see a Knight use a spear)(5) the axe is likely to destroy the shield (6) the single shot from the end of a "long ass spear" would be hard to aim at a moving target and he would have to be entirely still to use it (7, 8, and 9) would constitute why the weapon sets are in Dante's favor, yes the final thing is he will melt him with a meltagun. Which is wrist mounted for ease of use, meaning he can move and fire it easily. Now do a set for why moloc has a chance