Thatguyhsagun wrote:

 bigboss1o1 wrote:

 Lucarikx wrote:
Common sense battle? It was repeatedly shown that Dante has a more reasonable chance than Moloc, right?

Lucarikx

where was it repeatedly shown YOUR ONLY DEFENSE IS THAT MOLOC CANT SPEAR PEOPLE thats litteraly the only point you made against him which has been invalidated Moloc is better epuiped just as fast and more durable what is it that dante has the probability to quote on quote dance away your kidding me

Wow, go look at a doctor you seem to have a bit of amnesia mate. We made (between us) 16 points as to how Dante has an advantage. You made 6 (all of which were blown out of proportion) that we gave numerous downsides to.

 namiel wrote:

 Lobukia wrote:

 namiel wrote:

 Lobukia wrote:
I know its not the thrust of the argument... but here's Logan's Mathhammer

If he charges, he does 1.8 wounds on the charge, and Moloc gets his .851. Round 2 its 1.3 more for Logan... so end of two rounds its Moloc having taken 3.1 and Logan 1.7. End of third phase, dead Moloc and Logan's taken 2.553.

I might add, that I'm comfortable in saying Logan should have 4 wounds instead of 3, which makes this even more one sided if Logan charges.

Give Moloc the charge makes it close, Logan takes 2.836, but he'll take it before Moloc drops, so even odds that he's not around to hit back and kill Moloc.

Logan charges, he wins. Moloc charges, its a tossup. But again, I see no reason that Logan shouldn't have the CM statline improvement, giving him +1 wound. If you think that's fair, then Moloc loses to Logan either way.

mathhammer is crap. Just roll some dice. 1.8 wounds means crap. One can not loose 1.8 wounds its either 1 or 2

Um, wow. It this training wheels day. 1.5 wounds would mean in two battles one would expect the unit to take one wound as many times as it would take 2. So in ten battles, five would give 1 wound, five would give 2. 1.8 means quite a bit, thank you much. It means that in ten matches, 8 times a unit would take 2, only twice would it take 1. However, mathhammer newbs always want to round at the end of a turn. You can't do that. That 1.8 needs to stay as such to show the effects of those times it was 1 wound instead of two

I've never understood the complaints of using MH to explain a match up. All it does is show who would do what a majority if the time. It's a game with dice. I've had a marine sergeant kill Shrike in a challenge before. If what I took away from that was that a sarg with a PF was a sure thing in a challenge against Shrike, I'd be kinda dumb. Mathhammer educates. How rare was that outcome? If I'm running Shrike, how worried should be. Why would you not want to understand how the game works under the hood?

In mathhammer it is IMPOSSIABLE for shrike to loose against a unit sarg. WHY????? because he will always do at least one wound. REALITY.......thats not true. So basing anything off of mathhammer is crap because it is not reality.

 Lucarikx wrote:

 bigboss1o1 wrote:

 Lucarikx wrote:
Common sense battle? It was repeatedly shown that Dante has a more reasonable chance than Moloc, right?

Lucarikx

where was it repeatedly shown YOUR ONLY DEFENSE IS THAT MOLOC CANT SPEAR PEOPLE thats litteraly the only point you made against him which has been invalidated Moloc is better epuiped just as fast and more durable what is it that dante has the probability to quote on quote dance away your kidding me

Please go read my posts again, I actually made 5 distinct points on how Dante has a better chance than Moloc. Also, it would be easier to read your posts if you used correct punctuation.

Lucarikx

Thatguyhsagun wrote:

 namiel wrote:

 Lobukia wrote:

 namiel wrote:

 Lobukia wrote:
I know its not the thrust of the argument... but here's Logan's Mathhammer

If he charges, he does 1.8 wounds on the charge, and Moloc gets his .851. Round 2 its 1.3 more for Logan... so end of two rounds its Moloc having taken 3.1 and Logan 1.7. End of third phase, dead Moloc and Logan's taken 2.553.

I might add, that I'm comfortable in saying Logan should have 4 wounds instead of 3, which makes this even more one sided if Logan charges.

Give Moloc the charge makes it close, Logan takes 2.836, but he'll take it before Moloc drops, so even odds that he's not around to hit back and kill Moloc.

Logan charges, he wins. Moloc charges, its a tossup. But again, I see no reason that Logan shouldn't have the CM statline improvement, giving him +1 wound. If you think that's fair, then Moloc loses to Logan either way.

mathhammer is crap. Just roll some dice. 1.8 wounds means crap. One can not loose 1.8 wounds its either 1 or 2

Um, wow. It this training wheels day. 1.5 wounds would mean in two battles one would expect the unit to take one wound as many times as it would take 2. So in ten battles, five would give 1 wound, five would give 2. 1.8 means quite a bit, thank you much. It means that in ten matches, 8 times a unit would take 2, only twice would it take 1. However, mathhammer newbs always want to round at the end of a turn. You can't do that. That 1.8 needs to stay as such to show the effects of those times it was 1 wound instead of two

I've never understood the complaints of using MH to explain a match up. All it does is show who would do what a majority if the time. It's a game with dice. I've had a marine sergeant kill Shrike in a challenge before. If what I took away from that was that a sarg with a PF was a sure thing in a challenge against Shrike, I'd be kinda dumb. Mathhammer educates. How rare was that outcome? If I'm running Shrike, how worried should be. Why would you not want to understand how the game works under the hood?

In mathhammer it is IMPOSSIABLE for shrike to loose against a unit sarg. WHY????? because he will always do at least one wound. REALITY.......thats not true. So basing anything off of mathhammer is crap because it is not reality.

No.. mathhammer is average. Average shrike will do at least 1 wound, theres times he has done 4 and times he has done 0. That doesnt mean he cant do anything but 1, it means normally he'll deal at least 1.

namiel wrote:

Thatguyhsagun wrote:

 namiel wrote:

 Lobukia wrote:

 namiel wrote:

 Lobukia wrote:
I know its not the thrust of the argument... but here's Logan's Mathhammer

If he charges, he does 1.8 wounds on the charge, and Moloc gets his .851. Round 2 its 1.3 more for Logan... so end of two rounds its Moloc having taken 3.1 and Logan 1.7. End of third phase, dead Moloc and Logan's taken 2.553.

I might add, that I'm comfortable in saying Logan should have 4 wounds instead of 3, which makes this even more one sided if Logan charges.

Give Moloc the charge makes it close, Logan takes 2.836, but he'll take it before Moloc drops, so even odds that he's not around to hit back and kill Moloc.

Logan charges, he wins. Moloc charges, its a tossup. But again, I see no reason that Logan shouldn't have the CM statline improvement, giving him +1 wound. If you think that's fair, then Moloc loses to Logan either way.

mathhammer is crap. Just roll some dice. 1.8 wounds means crap. One can not loose 1.8 wounds its either 1 or 2

Um, wow. It this training wheels day. 1.5 wounds would mean in two battles one would expect the unit to take one wound as many times as it would take 2. So in ten battles, five would give 1 wound, five would give 2. 1.8 means quite a bit, thank you much. It means that in ten matches, 8 times a unit would take 2, only twice would it take 1. However, mathhammer newbs always want to round at the end of a turn. You can't do that. That 1.8 needs to stay as such to show the effects of those times it was 1 wound instead of two

I've never understood the complaints of using MH to explain a match up. All it does is show who would do what a majority if the time. It's a game with dice. I've had a marine sergeant kill Shrike in a challenge before. If what I took away from that was that a sarg with a PF was a sure thing in a challenge against Shrike, I'd be kinda dumb. Mathhammer educates. How rare was that outcome? If I'm running Shrike, how worried should be. Why would you not want to understand how the game works under the hood?

In mathhammer it is IMPOSSIABLE for shrike to loose against a unit sarg. WHY????? because he will always do at least one wound. REALITY.......thats not true. So basing anything off of mathhammer is crap because it is not reality.

No.. mathhammer is average. Average shrike will do at least 1 wound, theres times he has done 4 and times he has done 0. That doesnt mean he cant do anything but 1, it means normally he'll deal at least 1.

Yes on average he wins 100% of the time. What makes that viable? The dice are fickle and you can say averages all day long but its not a game of averages. Do you roll the fight off 1000 times in the game or do you do it just once?? It is random

bigboss1o1 wrote:

 Lucarikx wrote:

 bigboss1o1 wrote:

 Lucarikx wrote:
Common sense battle? It was repeatedly shown that Dante has a more reasonable chance than Moloc, right?

Lucarikx

where was it repeatedly shown YOUR ONLY DEFENSE IS THAT MOLOC CANT SPEAR PEOPLE thats litteraly the only point you made against him which has been invalidated Moloc is better epuiped just as fast and more durable what is it that dante has the probability to quote on quote dance away your kidding me

Please go read my posts again, I actually made 5 distinct points on how Dante has a better chance than Moloc. Also, it would be easier to read your posts if you used correct punctuation.

Lucarikx

and look at my post I made 6 distinct points on how Moloc would undo Dante, your point? you still refuse to listen to reason and make up the dumbest excuses

 bigboss1o1 wrote:


and look at my post I made 6 distinct points on how Moloc would undo Dante, your point? you still refuse to listen to reason and make up the dumbest excuses

Thatguyhsagun wrote:

namiel wrote:

Thatguyhsagun wrote:

 namiel wrote:

 Lobukia wrote:

 namiel wrote:

 Lobukia wrote:
I know its not the thrust of the argument... but here's Logan's Mathhammer

If he charges, he does 1.8 wounds on the charge, and Moloc gets his .851. Round 2 its 1.3 more for Logan... so end of two rounds its Moloc having taken 3.1 and Logan 1.7. End of third phase, dead Moloc and Logan's taken 2.553.

I might add, that I'm comfortable in saying Logan should have 4 wounds instead of 3, which makes this even more one sided if Logan charges.

Give Moloc the charge makes it close, Logan takes 2.836, but he'll take it before Moloc drops, so even odds that he's not around to hit back and kill Moloc.

Logan charges, he wins. Moloc charges, its a tossup. But again, I see no reason that Logan shouldn't have the CM statline improvement, giving him +1 wound. If you think that's fair, then Moloc loses to Logan either way.

mathhammer is crap. Just roll some dice. 1.8 wounds means crap. One can not loose 1.8 wounds its either 1 or 2

Um, wow. It this training wheels day. 1.5 wounds would mean in two battles one would expect the unit to take one wound as many times as it would take 2. So in ten battles, five would give 1 wound, five would give 2. 1.8 means quite a bit, thank you much. It means that in ten matches, 8 times a unit would take 2, only twice would it take 1. However, mathhammer newbs always want to round at the end of a turn. You can't do that. That 1.8 needs to stay as such to show the effects of those times it was 1 wound instead of two

I've never understood the complaints of using MH to explain a match up. All it does is show who would do what a majority if the time. It's a game with dice. I've had a marine sergeant kill Shrike in a challenge before. If what I took away from that was that a sarg with a PF was a sure thing in a challenge against Shrike, I'd be kinda dumb. Mathhammer educates. How rare was that outcome? If I'm running Shrike, how worried should be. Why would you not want to understand how the game works under the hood?

In mathhammer it is IMPOSSIABLE for shrike to loose against a unit sarg. WHY????? because he will always do at least one wound. REALITY.......thats not true. So basing anything off of mathhammer is crap because it is not reality.

No.. mathhammer is average. Average shrike will do at least 1 wound, theres times he has done 4 and times he has done 0. That doesnt mean he cant do anything but 1, it means normally he'll deal at least 1.

Yes on average he wins 100% of the time. What makes that viable? The dice are fickle and you can say averages all day long but its not a game of averages. Do you roll the fight off 1000 times in the game or do you do it just once?? It is random

Well if i flip a coin i have a 50/50 chance of heads or tails... i flip it once and get heads... those "real world applications" say ill get a heads 100% of the time... see why you dont do things just once?

Do me a favor and think about what it is like when you play a game of 40k. Do you roll fights out 100 times and decide whoever won the most wins the fight and the other dies? No you dont. That is why you do it once.

 namiel wrote:

Thatguyhsagun wrote:

namiel wrote:

Thatguyhsagun wrote:

 namiel wrote:

 Lobukia wrote:

 namiel wrote:

 Lobukia wrote:
I know its not the thrust of the argument... but here's Logan's Mathhammer

If he charges, he does 1.8 wounds on the charge, and Moloc gets his .851. Round 2 its 1.3 more for Logan... so end of two rounds its Moloc having taken 3.1 and Logan 1.7. End of third phase, dead Moloc and Logan's taken 2.553.

I might add, that I'm comfortable in saying Logan should have 4 wounds instead of 3, which makes this even more one sided if Logan charges.

Give Moloc the charge makes it close, Logan takes 2.836, but he'll take it before Moloc drops, so even odds that he's not around to hit back and kill Moloc.

Logan charges, he wins. Moloc charges, its a tossup. But again, I see no reason that Logan shouldn't have the CM statline improvement, giving him +1 wound. If you think that's fair, then Moloc loses to Logan either way.

mathhammer is crap. Just roll some dice. 1.8 wounds means crap. One can not loose 1.8 wounds its either 1 or 2

Um, wow. It this training wheels day. 1.5 wounds would mean in two battles one would expect the unit to take one wound as many times as it would take 2. So in ten battles, five would give 1 wound, five would give 2. 1.8 means quite a bit, thank you much. It means that in ten matches, 8 times a unit would take 2, only twice would it take 1. However, mathhammer newbs always want to round at the end of a turn. You can't do that. That 1.8 needs to stay as such to show the effects of those times it was 1 wound instead of two

I've never understood the complaints of using MH to explain a match up. All it does is show who would do what a majority if the time. It's a game with dice. I've had a marine sergeant kill Shrike in a challenge before. If what I took away from that was that a sarg with a PF was a sure thing in a challenge against Shrike, I'd be kinda dumb. Mathhammer educates. How rare was that outcome? If I'm running Shrike, how worried should be. Why would you not want to understand how the game works under the hood?

In mathhammer it is IMPOSSIABLE for shrike to loose against a unit sarg. WHY????? because he will always do at least one wound. REALITY.......thats not true. So basing anything off of mathhammer is crap because it is not reality.

No.. mathhammer is average. Average shrike will do at least 1 wound, theres times he has done 4 and times he has done 0. That doesnt mean he cant do anything but 1, it means normally he'll deal at least 1.

Yes on average he wins 100% of the time. What makes that viable? The dice are fickle and you can say averages all day long but its not a game of averages. Do you roll the fight off 1000 times in the game or do you do it just once?? It is random

Well if i flip a coin i have a 50/50 chance of heads or tails... i flip it once and get heads... those "real world applications" say ill get a heads 100% of the time... see why you dont do things just once?

Do me a favor and think about what it is like when you play a game of 40k. Do you roll fights out 100 times and decide whoever won the most wins the fight and the other dies? No you dont. That is why you do it once.

 Lucarikx wrote:

 bigboss1o1 wrote:


and look at my post I made 6 distinct points on how Moloc would undo Dante, your point? you still refuse to listen to reason and make up the dumbest excuses

You know what? I know this is feeding the troll, and its really infuriating to discuss this with someone who refuses to accept facts, both TT wise and deduced fluff wise.

You made a thread on what everybody thinks. We come in with evidence in fluff and on the table top, and you refuse to believe that anyone can think that someone is better Asterion Moloc. Guess what? If you can't accept others opinions, there is no point to this thread.

Lucarikx

Thatguyhsagun wrote:

You mean aside from mobility (1) speed (2) maneuverability (3) and the flexibility that comes with a JP (4) that constitutes his ability to outmanouver him, the fact that a spear is not designed for use in full armor (ever see a Knight use a spear)(5) the axe is likely to destroy the shield (6) the single shot from the end of a "long ass spear" would be hard to aim at a moving target and he would have to be entirely still to use it (7, 8, and 9) would constitute why the weapon sets are in Dante's favor, yes the final thing is he will melt him with a meltagun. Which is wrist mounted for ease of use, meaning he can move and fire it easily. Now do a set for why moloc has a chance theres my 9 from page 9 (ironic i know) ill go look for the rest now

 namiel wrote:

 Lucarikx wrote:

 bigboss1o1 wrote:


and look at my post I made 6 distinct points on how Moloc would undo Dante, your point? you still refuse to listen to reason and make up the dumbest excuses

You know what? I know this is feeding the troll, and its really infuriating to discuss this with someone who refuses to accept facts, both TT wise and deduced fluff wise.

You made a thread on what everybody thinks. We come in with evidence in fluff and on the table top, and you refuse to believe that anyone can think that someone is better Asterion Moloc. Guess what? If you can't accept others opinions, there is no point to this thread.

Lucarikx

I am simply pointing out why averages do not work in game. ALSO I am all about discussion over who would win fluff-wise. My vote went to Azrael as a da fan I say my chapter master is the biggest bad ass in the galaxy. In game he is not. The fact of the matter is that all of your averages aside ANYONE can beat ANYONE when it is on the table and you roll it out. That is why mathhammer is crap.

 namiel wrote:

 Lucarikx wrote:

 bigboss1o1 wrote:


and look at my post I made 6 distinct points on how Moloc would undo Dante, your point? you still refuse to listen to reason and make up the dumbest excuses

You know what? I know this is feeding the troll, and its really infuriating to discuss this with someone who refuses to accept facts, both TT wise and deduced fluff wise.

You made a thread on what everybody thinks. We come in with evidence in fluff and on the table top, and you refuse to believe that anyone can think that someone is better Asterion Moloc. Guess what? If you can't accept others opinions, there is no point to this thread.

Lucarikx

I am simply pointing out why averages do not work in game. ALSO I am all about discussion over who would win fluff-wise. My vote went to Azrael as a da fan I say my chapter master is the biggest bad ass in the galaxy. In game he is not. The fact of the matter is that all of your averages aside ANYONE can beat ANYONE when it is on the table and you roll it out. That is why mathhammer is crap.

Thatguyhsagun wrote:

 namiel wrote:

Thatguyhsagun wrote:

namiel wrote:

Thatguyhsagun wrote:

 namiel wrote:

 Lobukia wrote:

 namiel wrote:

 Lobukia wrote:
I know its not the thrust of the argument... but here's Logan's Mathhammer

If he charges, he does 1.8 wounds on the charge, and Moloc gets his .851. Round 2 its 1.3 more for Logan... so end of two rounds its Moloc having taken 3.1 and Logan 1.7. End of third phase, dead Moloc and Logan's taken 2.553.

I might add, that I'm comfortable in saying Logan should have 4 wounds instead of 3, which makes this even more one sided if Logan charges.

Give Moloc the charge makes it close, Logan takes 2.836, but he'll take it before Moloc drops, so even odds that he's not around to hit back and kill Moloc.

Logan charges, he wins. Moloc charges, its a tossup. But again, I see no reason that Logan shouldn't have the CM statline improvement, giving him +1 wound. If you think that's fair, then Moloc loses to Logan either way.

mathhammer is crap. Just roll some dice. 1.8 wounds means crap. One can not loose 1.8 wounds its either 1 or 2

Um, wow. It this training wheels day. 1.5 wounds would mean in two battles one would expect the unit to take one wound as many times as it would take 2. So in ten battles, five would give 1 wound, five would give 2. 1.8 means quite a bit, thank you much. It means that in ten matches, 8 times a unit would take 2, only twice would it take 1. However, mathhammer newbs always want to round at the end of a turn. You can't do that. That 1.8 needs to stay as such to show the effects of those times it was 1 wound instead of two

I've never understood the complaints of using MH to explain a match up. All it does is show who would do what a majority if the time. It's a game with dice. I've had a marine sergeant kill Shrike in a challenge before. If what I took away from that was that a sarg with a PF was a sure thing in a challenge against Shrike, I'd be kinda dumb. Mathhammer educates. How rare was that outcome? If I'm running Shrike, how worried should be. Why would you not want to understand how the game works under the hood?

In mathhammer it is IMPOSSIABLE for shrike to loose against a unit sarg. WHY????? because he will always do at least one wound. REALITY.......thats not true. So basing anything off of mathhammer is crap because it is not reality.

No.. mathhammer is average. Average shrike will do at least 1 wound, theres times he has done 4 and times he has done 0. That doesnt mean he cant do anything but 1, it means normally he'll deal at least 1.

Yes on average he wins 100% of the time. What makes that viable? The dice are fickle and you can say averages all day long but its not a game of averages. Do you roll the fight off 1000 times in the game or do you do it just once?? It is random

Well if i flip a coin i have a 50/50 chance of heads or tails... i flip it once and get heads... those "real world applications" say ill get a heads 100% of the time... see why you dont do things just once?

Do me a favor and think about what it is like when you play a game of 40k. Do you roll fights out 100 times and decide whoever won the most wins the fight and the other dies? No you dont. That is why you do it once.

No but if youre truly trying to see who would win? you dont do it a single time.

 namiel wrote:

 Lucarikx wrote:

 bigboss1o1 wrote:


and look at my post I made 6 distinct points on how Moloc would undo Dante, your point? you still refuse to listen to reason and make up the dumbest excuses

You know what? I know this is feeding the troll, and its really infuriating to discuss this with someone who refuses to accept facts, both TT wise and deduced fluff wise.

You made a thread on what everybody thinks. We come in with evidence in fluff and on the table top, and you refuse to believe that anyone can think that someone is better Asterion Moloc. Guess what? If you can't accept others opinions, there is no point to this thread.

Lucarikx

I am simply pointing out why averages do not work in game. ALSO I am all about discussion over who would win fluff-wise. My vote went to Azrael as a da fan I say my chapter master is the biggest bad ass in the galaxy. In game he is not. The fact of the matter is that all of your averages aside ANYONE can beat ANYONE when it is on the table and you roll it out. That is why mathhammer is crap.

 Lucarikx wrote:

 bigboss1o1 wrote:


and look at my post I made 6 distinct points on how Moloc would undo Dante, your point? you still refuse to listen to reason and make up the dumbest excuses

You know what? I know this is feeding the troll, and its really infuriating to discuss this with someone who refuses to accept facts, both TT wise and deduced fluff wise.

You made a thread on what everybody thinks. We come in with evidence in fluff and on the table top, and you refuse to believe that anyone can think that someone is better Asterion Moloc. Guess what? If you can't accept others opinions, there is no point to this thread.

Lucarikx

Thatguyhsagun wrote:

 namiel wrote:

 Lucarikx wrote:

 bigboss1o1 wrote:


and look at my post I made 6 distinct points on how Moloc would undo Dante, your point? you still refuse to listen to reason and make up the dumbest excuses

You know what? I know this is feeding the troll, and its really infuriating to discuss this with someone who refuses to accept facts, both TT wise and deduced fluff wise.

You made a thread on what everybody thinks. We come in with evidence in fluff and on the table top, and you refuse to believe that anyone can think that someone is better Asterion Moloc. Guess what? If you can't accept others opinions, there is no point to this thread.

Lucarikx

I am simply pointing out why averages do not work in game. ALSO I am all about discussion over who would win fluff-wise. My vote went to Azrael as a da fan I say my chapter master is the biggest bad ass in the galaxy. In game he is not. The fact of the matter is that all of your averages aside ANYONE can beat ANYONE when it is on the table and you roll it out. That is why mathhammer is crap.

Again.. averages. On average X will beat Y. That doesnt mean Y cant beat X. It meand that X beats Y most of the time though. Basic understanding of math, averages are not facts. Just because shrike will win on average does not mean he will ALWAYS win.

 Lucarikx wrote:

 namiel wrote:

 Lucarikx wrote:

 bigboss1o1 wrote:


and look at my post I made 6 distinct points on how Moloc would undo Dante, your point? you still refuse to listen to reason and make up the dumbest excuses

You know what? I know this is feeding the troll, and its really infuriating to discuss this with someone who refuses to accept facts, both TT wise and deduced fluff wise.

You made a thread on what everybody thinks. We come in with evidence in fluff and on the table top, and you refuse to believe that anyone can think that someone is better Asterion Moloc. Guess what? If you can't accept others opinions, there is no point to this thread.

Lucarikx

I am simply pointing out why averages do not work in game. ALSO I am all about discussion over who would win fluff-wise. My vote went to Azrael as a da fan I say my chapter master is the biggest bad ass in the galaxy. In game he is not. The fact of the matter is that all of your averages aside ANYONE can beat ANYONE when it is on the table and you roll it out. That is why mathhammer is crap.

I don't see how this applies to what my post said, truthfully.

This thread isn't going anywhere, its just getting closer to getting locked by a mod.

Lucarikx

 bigboss1o1 wrote:

 Lucarikx wrote:

 bigboss1o1 wrote:


and look at my post I made 6 distinct points on how Moloc would undo Dante, your point? you still refuse to listen to reason and make up the dumbest excuses

You know what? I know this is feeding the troll, and its really infuriating to discuss this with someone who refuses to accept facts, both TT wise and deduced fluff wise.

You made a thread on what everybody thinks. We come in with evidence in fluff and on the table top, and you refuse to believe that anyone can think that someone is better Asterion Moloc. Guess what? If you can't accept others opinions, there is no point to this thread.

Lucarikx

but if you can read I already stated that Moloc would lose I know this but not to Dante thats what these past like 9 pages have been Im pretty sure calgar will pepper him to death and logan would wulfen his ass but dante has nothing aside from ooooo he's fast ok goooooooood job it does not mean hes the best at all, as many of us have said already.

 bigboss1o1 wrote:

Thatguyhsagun wrote:

You mean aside from mobility (1) speed (2) maneuverability (3) and the flexibility that comes with a JP (4) that constitutes his ability to outmanouver him, the fact that a spear is not designed for use in full armor (ever see a Knight use a spear)(5) the axe is likely to destroy the shield (6) the single shot from the end of a "long ass spear" would be hard to aim at a moving target and he would have to be entirely still to use it (7, 8, and 9) would constitute why the weapon sets are in Dante's favor, yes the final thing is he will melt him with a meltagun. Which is wrist mounted for ease of use, meaning he can move and fire it easily. Now do a set for why moloc has a chance theres my 9 from page 9 (ironic i know) ill go look for the rest now

you cant use mobility speed or manueverability cus theres no way to clarify who is faster that negates 1, 2, and 3, for both of us and the whole spear is not designed for heavy armor is irrelevant what its designed for mean nothing his ability to use it means everything ( nunchucks and Kamas were designed to be farming tools guess what there used for?) i dont see how a space marine has trouble aiming anything but that might be your only valid arguement, the axe is LIKELY to destroy the shield ok lets get those likely's outta here and ill add for Moloc durability way more then dante not just because of his armor but his cypernetics as well, and Ill throw in there his complete insanity, paronia, and complete disregard for life.

DogofWar1 wrote:
Do Artificer Armor and Terminator Armor provide the same or a similar amount of protection (aside from energy fields for Invuln saves) in terms of physical protection?

It seems like Artificer Armor somewhat covers a wide range of armors that have been modified, and is just standardized for the tabletop.

I have to imagine that Dante's Artificer Armor, seeing as he's the CT of a first founding chapter, provides about as good of protection as one could expect such armor to provide.

Also, in terms of Molec v. Dante, I'm reminded of the Fire Emblem weapon triangle. Axes beat spears and polearms, which beat swords, which beat axes.

Basically, Dante wins because Fire Emblem told me so. Also Grimnar for the same reason. Calgar is outside the weapon triangle, which makes things tough.

Of course, that would also mean Draigo loses because he has a sword, and we all know Matt Ward would never allow that.

Niexist wrote:
Gabriel Angelos is the clear winner over the two clowns Moloch, and Dante. They're both forced to fight him bare-handed due to "gifting" all the sacred weapons from the blood angels, and minotaur chapter the night before their battle.

Niexist wrote:
Gabriel Angelos is the clear winner over the two clowns Moloch, and Dante. They're both forced to fight him bare-handed due to "gifting" all the sacred weapons from the blood angels, and minotaur chapter the night before their battle.

 Lucarikx wrote:

Niexist wrote:
Gabriel Angelos is the clear winner over the two clowns Moloch, and Dante. They're both forced to fight him bare-handed due to "gifting" all the sacred weapons from the blood angels, and minotaur chapter the night before their battle.

But they didn't see Creed infiltrating the Warlord inside of the arena

But Angelos might have a chance against Pedro.

Lucarikx

Thatguyhsagun wrote:

 Lucarikx wrote:

Niexist wrote:
Gabriel Angelos is the clear winner over the two clowns Moloch, and Dante. They're both forced to fight him bare-handed due to "gifting" all the sacred weapons from the blood angels, and minotaur chapter the night before their battle.

But they didn't see Creed infiltrating the Warlord inside of the arena

But Angelos might have a chance against Pedro.

Lucarikx

Nooooo... the arena is on the shoulder of a warlord titan

 bigboss1o1 wrote:

Thatguyhsagun wrote:

 Lucarikx wrote:

Niexist wrote:
Gabriel Angelos is the clear winner over the two clowns Moloch, and Dante. They're both forced to fight him bare-handed due to "gifting" all the sacred weapons from the blood angels, and minotaur chapter the night before their battle.

But they didn't see Creed infiltrating the Warlord inside of the arena

But Angelos might have a chance against Pedro.

Lucarikx

Nooooo... the arena is on the shoulder of a warlord titan

Orbital bombardment lol

Malik_Raynor wrote:
Azreal.......because he is an Unforgiven at heart and would call upon the Chaos Gods for the last line of defense.....not to mention you would be fighting his Watcher of the Dark too LMAO